As someone who worked in guitar shops for nearly 20 years, and also plays/gigs/records at home, I think the biggest issue that most players run into with modellers from a tonal point of view (so not including UI stuff) is the fact that the tone of a microphone is completely baked-in to the sounds coming out of the hardware… and guitar players aren’t used to that. Sure, you can change the microphone and adjust its placement, but it’s always there. It’s inherently part of the cabinet modelling. Most players hardly ever experience what their guitar amp sounds like when it’s mic’d up. They’re used to sitting next to their amp, with the speaker pointing at their shins. Listening to an amp that way is very different from putting it in another room, micing it up, and listening to the playback through monitors… but THAT is the sound that modellers are attempting to reproduce (some more successfully than others). I think this is why so many players will fail to differentiate between guitar tones that are recorded with a modeller vs guitar tones recorded with a “real” amp, and yet when they sit down and play a modeller in person, they feel like it sounds “strange” or “different” in some way.

Oh and thanks for sharing the info about your global EQ setting. I have a TMP and that has helped improve the sound immensely. 👍

John makes everything sound great! Plus, he has provided the most complete work flow and use case set of videos. Fender should be paying him for all the time he has put into their product.

Ive been using amp modelers for 15 years. Started with the Boss ME 50 and eventually moved on to the POD HD Pro. I always got criticism but only from other guitarists. Literally 0 non-musicians who saw me perform live with them ever said anything about it. I have a fully analog rig now (tube amp + pedals) and it sounds great...to me and other guitarists. Yet I find myself yearning to go back to the modeling world. Theres just something about having total control of my rig and tone, being able to adjust things on the fly(especially in a live setting where anything can happen), and most of all not have to worry about maintaining and tending to the possibility of 1 out of 20 things that could be going wrong with my setup which has happened. Fans don't care if your tone doesn't sound "natural". If a modeler has too much high end the sound guy will adjust your mix to fit the room. If you're reading this and you've been watching these videos to figure out if getting one of these or anything similar is worth it, just do it. Yes there is a learning curve, yes the tones don't sound EXACTLY the way their tube counterparts sound. Just get something you're comfortable with, play with it, use it, commit to it and i guarantee you, you will love the way it sounds.

Very interesting to see your exploration of this modeller. Really valuable for anyone shopping around. Thanks John

Don't Stop Believing was spot on!! And congrats on being the FIRST KZfaqr to gig the ToneMaster Pro.

I used the Tone Master Pro this morning at church. I had spent the weekend dialing my sounds and wasn’t thrilled live. For the second service I went back to the Helix, it’s tried and true! I do like a lot about the Fender, I just need to tweak it quite a bit

I haven't gigged for a while, but was in a busy function band for many years and the difference in my perception of my tone from our rehearsal space to different venues was pretty constant. Every room sounds different, and outdoor gigs, from my experience, are always rough as far as connecting with the mix and my tone within it. Another big factor was always how much space I had on stage (or in the corner of a bar or restaurant). If I was standing with my amp a foot behind me, it was generally difficult to hear what my amp really sounded like out in the room, vs. being able to have it behind me a few feet, or whatever. I tried an amp stand for a while, but having it pointed at my head was never a good solution, either. Everything is a compromise to some degree. I bought my first Katana at the end of last year - the 50 watt with the extra footswitch functionality, whatever it's called - and out of the box it was extremely bright, just playing at reasonably quiet bedroom levels, which is all I can manage in my current living situation. Luckily the Katana editor is really good and I now have a few sounds that I really like. I feel like the idea of any modeler being gigable out of the box is probably just not possible. Most presets have over-emphasized bass and scooped mids. Guitarists need to remember that we play a midrange instrument and gig tones need to work within the context of a busy band mix. Horns, keyboards, etc., all need to fit in somewhere and a big, scooped drive tone that sounds huge by itself will often get lost in the mix. Anyway, John, I appreciate your thoughtful and honest approach. I've seen so many "sponsored" Fender TMP videos in the last several days. Being handed an expensive piece of gear - and in many cases the powered FRFR Fender speaker as well - and saying that it has no impact on the reviewer's opinion is disingenuous, in my opinion. Fender clearly wants good things said about their stuff, that's why they sent out dozens of free units. They know they'll get a big splash and probably mostly positive comments. It's marketing in the social media age, and it is what it is. Keep up the good work. The loops/tracks you create and your approach to soloing is always melodic and enjoyable. I'm well past the age where shredding for the sake of shredding appeals to me anymore. You clearly have a strong sense of phrasing and melody and it makes you stand out from the YT crowd of guitar players.

You always get the best sounds. Inspiring channel to say the least.

JNC you really articulated well the issue of home tone versus FOH tone. It's always the biggest challenge. But if I'm honest the FOH tone challenge has always been there even with amps that have speaker emulation line outs too.

you always seem to reach into my brain and then articulate the question/problems and then answer them! you mentioned user interface and I think I love that the most about this unit seeing you put it to use. Ps. Right at the end of your vid I noticed a 'retain global eq' switch, I guess thats what you need (like you didn't know already) - thanks again!

Great content John. I respect that you give your thoughts and opinions on this honestly. I’m following along because if I do end up buying one, it’s because of your insight. So thank you.

Thanks for another great video John!

Your comments about modelers not sounding the same "in the studio" vs. "at volume live" align with my experience too. But frankly, real tube amps also sound quite different when comparing "at home" levels with live levels. Although the differences are different. But this all points to the fact that we need to test and tweak our modelers at gigging volumes one way or the other. Of course, on the flip side, the whole point of modeling (for me anyway) is that you can get your tones at almosst any volume level. I suppose that is true as long as we are willing to tweak to accomodate the desired volume level.

Many a good point in your video John thanks. You have helped me bridge the gap from being stuck playing ONLY my tube amps to making the jump into modeling and actually going for it getting this unit + the Fender Fr12 powered cabinet. I agree 100% that what has put me off when trying modelers before; I hated the interface, and I also hated the gap between what I dialed in at home vs. what it sounds like when there is a drummer and another guitarist / bassist etc. I will say that having the Fender FR12 has so far made my life REALLY easy when it comes to boiling off the extra high end fizz with there being an entire EQ on the top of the cab for really quick adjustments of Bass, Middle, Treble and thank god a cut / pass filter that really takes the nails on the chalkboard sound away from some of the rigs that I have setup currently. Best part is I didn't need to touch the pedal board for adjustments and its a small seamless adjustment of a single knob based on the patch I am running. I am experimenting with various IR's as I have recently acquired several hundred of them in a large bundle, I can feel the optional paralysis setting its claws into me already! Cheers mate!

Thanks for the video. Keep up the great work!

I love the touch screen with sliders. The unit looks professional and sturdy. On KZfaq it sounds just like most other modelers so i imagine the sound is at least decent in person. I'm admittedly biased in favor of Fender because I was brought up in a Fender household. That being said, I can't see myself buying this new. Maybe after a year of firmware updates, I can snag one used to try out.

Actually, with tube amps you find yourself dialing them way darker on stage than what you do at home levels. It's a byproduct of how both speakers and hearing work.

I really liked this video! I just bought mine and have only played with the presets. Now I plan to build up my own. I also have a Quad Cortex, but so far I like the TMP better. So much easier and I like the ProControl software for this setup. Thanks for posting your unbiased videos!

Nice explanation of live use and modellers. It would be nice to see a video that someone like yourself goes through behind the scenes to get such a great tone from these modellers for the videos.

As much as I love my Helix, I really think this thing sounds great and has a great interface.

"Like feedback through the foldback, these are the gigs of our lives".

Another great video, thanks for sharing some of the love footage as well as all your thoughts on it. I know a lot of time, thought and work goes into making these videos so I hope you're being paid well for the anti-Fender vendetta. ;) Another totally fair one from my point of view. Until you mentioned it must admit I'd forgotten about how shocked I was the first time I played my lovely Helix sounds through a PA system in a pub....totally crestfallen until I worked it out (probably from one of your videos). Cheers.

I just wanted to keep listening to the band! You all sound great!

This is a super good video. I don't even want to buy one of those gadgets but I have learned a lot in sound design.

You might be bombarding us, but it's new gear. People like to know. Also, if you have an opinion, there will always be people that disagree. No way around that. I like the content. Keep it going.

I think the thing with the fuzzy high end is that on a real tube amp, you do not crank it up at low volumes. It’s either low at low volumes or cranked a high volume. And the dynamic difference of the amps tone makes up for the how it feels in a room. But in a modeler, you get used to your high gain sound at low volume. Then you turn up the volume and you suddenly notice all this noise extra low end and high end information that you didn’t know was there. It’s not a matter of the model being unrealistic so much as the way you are monitoring it being unrealistic. The other thing is that I think it is there job to capture the highest frequencies of an amp because if they don’t and you won’t be able to add it back with EQ. You can only take away. So it’s better they have it available than not. But I think that the cab sims in these things should always include high cut and low cut filters and have them default at 80hz low cut and 6khz high-cut.

I appreciate this video. As a gigging musician, I've recently become accustom to modelling and I love it. I currently use the Boss ME90. This looks so much more intuitive, but the price reflects this as well. I will be buying this unit for sure. It took some time to learn the sounds that cut through the mix. What sounds great in your bedroom, sounds significantly different in the band mix - that's a huge learning curve! Being in a cover band for various types of music, modelling is so useful and inspirational. Not to mention, easier on the back cuz I don't have a crew to help load/unload my gear. Setting up is so simple now.

I love that you effectively demoed it with our set list 😅 Just need Dakota next….

I gigged the Tone Master Pro last weekend. It went pretty well, it definitely helped I watched this and rolled back on the highs. Super easy to use and was able to add pedals between songs when needed. My only issue was the wah patch I used, it was kind of shrieked. I picked that one because at home the others didn't have much tone but I see live with full sound they would be just fine.

I was recently explaining to the drummer in my band why I have gone to a modeler (HX stomp), because he was like, "isn't it all about the amp? What happened to your amp bro?" My number one reason was that it sounds more consistent from gig to gig than my tube amps ever did. I had a lot of experiences plugging into either my 1969 Fender Bandmaster Reverb, or my little Egnater combo, and the sound would just be different from the last time I played through it. Usually weirdly thin, or muffled and shitty. I honestly don't get that with the patches that I use on the Helix, it's kind of always the same, which is great. And if I do get the old "Fletcher Munson scooped at volume" problem, global EQ is right there for me, or I have an EQ block that I have saved and ready to go that compensates for the FM curve that high volume sounds create.

What can I say…great blue Jean shirt John!!

Don’t forget, there are low and high cut filters right on the Cab Editor page to accomplish this same bandpassing of frequencies that JNC is getting from the global EQ.

Great review and great job dialing in the Friedman lead tone. I'm thinking that maybe the default EQ having the full spectrum audio range is to accommodatevand include keyboards and vocal nuances as opposed to just guitar/amps. It would be great to have multiple EQ options saved for different instruments to accommodate the more life-like 6-8k roll off that we find in our typical guitar and amp rigs. As you mentioned, even the Fractal AF III cabs need to be rolled off on the low and high end when You're building presets from scratch. Also, and just as important, is that you really need to have a couple preset types for each preset regardless of which modeler you are using. One preset for bedroom/recording use, and one variation of that preset for live use. Because inevitably they are going to sound different and call for emphasis on different frequencies depending on the band you're playing with and even the venue itself. I saw Rhetts review and I think he way overshot his criticism of the unit without putting forth the effort you should to learn the system and produce a good sound. He did the same thing with the Fractal. I think Rhett is more inclined towards something more simple that has already been worked out,band requires less user input. I think he likes Line6 and Kemper stuff, and maybe is a bit stuck in the 7 or 8 year old modeling tech world.

One thing that seems to help with these modelers, to get rid of those high-end artifacts without using the cut filter, is the ribbon 121 mic versus an sm57. Since I started doing this with my modeler, I no longer need the high-end cut filter. In fact they can turn the bright switch on with the amp, including treble, for bright sounds, without the harsh.

One tip I came across with my Headrush Prime was to enable a Global EQ. This seems to help. I'd imagine the TMP has a similar feature.

awesome review,, totally honest which is what I appreciate!

Frankly, it sounds great in your demos.

I can’t believe how quickly you can assign foot switches to turn effects on and off. It literally takes seconds. I’d still be watching a Leon Todd or Cooper Carter video to figure out how to do it on the Axe-FX.

When I set up my Helix (LT) presets for my last band, I used to have the volume as high as I could get to address the high frequency issues, as close to live volume as I could get. Appreciate its not always possible for many people! I am lucky I can play at high volume without annoying anyone, neighbours or otherwise.

If you're playing Mr Brightside I actually would love a tutorial from you on how to overcome that insane fingering for the riff lol.

i guess my interest in this device is because i like a quick and easy way to get to an end result and don't like to have to go back and edit things. set up two rigs max and just play and have it sound good enough each room at a gig. and the fizz top end cut global would be perfect. thanks for the honest review.

Thanks John! I say you really have a handle on setting up some really nice tones quickly. Your ear for sweet sounding tones is very impressive not to mention your liquid touch on the guitar. I am very impressed with how you handle these modelers! I always end up going back to my physical amps and pedals after becoming frustrated by programing modelers. When I watch you I keep imagining the possibilities these units posses for amazing sounds but my experience has not resulted in outcomes like yours. Maybe it has to do with my ear for creating sounds in that I tend to get lost in creating a sound then when I come back and listen later I think "OMG! That sounds like garbage!". How did you get to where you are in programming these wonderful tones?

I have a Helix LT that I've been gigging for quite some time. I use that for gigs where I need more complicated rigs and multiple different sounds. I have a Hughes & Kettner Ampman Vintage that I love for certain simpler sounds, but I've recently grabbed a Tonex Pedal for times when I really only need a simple 'guitar-into-amp' sound. I was NOT disppointed the Tonex didn't have an effects loop (because I know better) but I WAS a little bummed they didn't have balanced XLR outs. I use a small DI box with it, but it would be GREAT if it had that built in as that's kinda the whole point of owning this is to simplify my rig and be able to carry my "amp" in the poscket of my gig bag. I won'y be considering this unit as I don't feel the price would give me that much more than I already have available.

Not sure if I have posted this before (apologies if I have), but the Mission SP1-TMP (co branded and custom paint) unlocks things like volume control, wah and a lot of cool creativity/control. Fender also made it reeeeally easy to set up the expression and the toe switch. Control up to 5 parameters at once and use the toe switch to turn off one or all effects. Be great to see a video covering this :-)

Hey John. I am just one of your 92.6 thousand subscribers so I guess you can take this with a grain of salt...you don't owe anyone any apologies. You have a right to your professional opinion as well as anyone. I believe folks that have followed you for any amount of time know that you base your thoughts on the real world use as a long time modeler. I, for one, appreciate the honesty and clarity with which you present you views. So don't ever feel the need to apologize. We know what you mean...on the other hand...that shark.....

It will be interesting to see if Fender sticks with it and continues development or if they just leave it as is as they normally do with this stuff. It seems like a really good first crack at this. If they continue to update it for 4 or 5 yrs and them release a new version that would be awesome.

If only a small pub covers band had a guitarist this good, they’d be bearable!.

Great point about the translation from home to gig. Those of us old enough to have played when we were rolling in 100 watt amps and 4x12s to clubs, even the amps sound different when you get somewhere. I had to do that all the time with my rig in the 80s and 90s. I generally on dirty sounds will have a hi cut down to 6k or even 3k depending on the sound, then out to the post effects. I also think people expect the newest thing out to be the be all end all of everything. No amp is that, no pedal is that, why should a modeler be that?

Every preset I have (on the Helix Floor) has a pretty savage rolloff on the high and low ends on the cabs. Always.

i think it sounds great

the whole brighter in the bedroom and darker playing out goes for all gear, amp/digital/guitar/pickups… when playing out at high volumes esp after getting experience w it we seek more mids less highs etc.

Well said about the gap between how modelers sound at studio and when you hit the front of the house with it...

Would love to see some comparisons of the reverbs, delays and drives to Helix. It also sounds like it was a smart move for Fender to put a cut knob on their cabs. I think I'm going to pick up the 10" cab this week. BTW, do you guys do Easy Lover? I feel like you did an amazing cover of that ages ago. I'd like to hear that again.

i heard Billy Sheehan talk about that phenomenon.. that at higher volumes the sound tends to eq to a "smiley face" curve.. i suppose it`s about physics of the space or the speaker moving at high preasures, but i did find interesting that observation.. he also said that he sets his sounds with more mids to compensate that

On the Fender Mustang GTX100 I pretty much have to run it with the bright cut turned on because I think it's a bit fizzy and too much in the high end. That combined with having the volume loud enough seems to get it in something like amp territory. I'm not surprised that the ToneMaster Pro is similar in that regard.

Sounds pretty damn great to me

I went through modeling when it first came out into the early 2000’s. ART, Line 6 Johnson millennium. It’s hard to go back. I love pedals into to my amps.

JNC, I don't know whether your valve amps still need fixing, but you might want to check out Jon Dickinson's Amplification in Crystal Palace, London SE19. He makes/designs his own guitar amps. His battered workshop is like stepping into a Harry Potter movie, full of sad broken 1960s Fender/Marshall/Vox valve amps that he's mending. Highly recommended by me (although I'm a nobody) :) . Note: I have no pecuniary link to Jon but he's fixed up my stuff in the past. Not expensive either.

I’ve never wanted a unit like this - Kemper, Axe Fx etc etc. Too much technology, learning, fidgeting and so on. But I’m really liking this. Looks very intuitive and easy to get around. Plus, it sounds good. But man, it’s almost €2k 🤦‍♂️

You sound great, with an emphasis on you!

Same thing happen with amps too, settings for home use are vastly different to the live use.

Love your channel and I have not reviews this on mine but think you would like what I have said on some videos about tonelower volumes pushing speakers be it an amp or pa speaker effects tone . Some of the modelers will not sound like you hear in a video no one talks pickups or pots what preamp out they have in a mixer or what mixer board is set to. I talk about reviewers and their inexperience as I am a guitarist from 3 major labels as well as write for artist you hear today. There are so many factors. The one thing I really appreciated you said is how you kissed off many companies and my biggest point is these reviewers won’t say that and or it’s why they are biased in a review free gear! Love love your channel. Just did trident Nux check it out!

I don’t think they are there yet. Mustang LT vibes…

Queen is the first thing I'll try when I get my TMP fired up ;)

Appreciate all the work into this, I still want to hear through the Fr-10 or 12.

I completely agree about your point at ~7min .. dialing in a modeller live is a world away from a good studio tone. My 2p on this is that a) cos you're (usually) not just tweaking tone, gain and volume pots until it sound good, it feels really odd and b) if you've had an amp in a pub, you're not mic'ing up .. ever .. so that whole mic'ing layer is at odds with the circumstance .. At some point I suspect I'll make the change .. but it would be nice to have dedicated controls and cab models/IRs that are designed/intended to make you feel like you're stood in front of the amp .. doubt that'll happen though

That thing sounds good to me.

Love the lick at 0:52

Global EQ is persistent (there is an option for it)… also, you should be doing frequency cuts at the cab

I commented on the ample use of the term "digital" in Rhetts video. He was not wrong about it being fizzy, just that's not because it's digital, it's direct and close quartered. It has a wider FRFR bandwidth. It puts the close mic'ed tone in your ears and you never put year ears up to the speaker where the mic is setup. lowpass at 6 to 7K or it will be fizzy. That's nothing to do with digital.

John, any chance that I can convince you to share, sell or upload to the cloud your EJ lead settings? 😁 Sounds fantastic in this video.

The cab sim outputs on the Tone Master amps suffer from the same fizzyness but even in just a studio recording setting, I’m finding I need to put a low pass on the eq or just use a third party IR.

Have you considered gigging with the speakers that Fender made for this unit? Do you think that may eliminate some of the problems?

I mean, it sounds like you were playing guitar! Pretty sure you’d make any piece of equipment sound incredible.

they should have a quick setting that sets it in home use mode or live mode with proper eq

You can’t even begin to dial in a reliable gig sound without dialling in gear at gig volume, regardless of the gear used. I’m kind of surprised this is still a conversation. That’s without taking into consideration how different venues will radically alter our perception of sound.

Solved with using a Duncan power head and real cab, turn off cab in TMP. Zero fizzy bits.

I think it's important to remember that; just because you are using a modeling device, it doesn't mean you have to throw away your on-stage speaker and give total control to whoever is mixing the "house". I thought that Fender providing a speaker to work with this unit was just right for that reason. Way back in the 60's when I played big venues, they would mic everything so tight that they could take control away from the band even then. We always resisted spreading out too far on-stage, so we could still create our audible zone settup. You need to hear a mix that sounds familiar, at the minimum, to play well. I'm not familiar with in-ear monitoring, but I spent hundreds of hours playing with headphone mixes in studios, so I assume that has a similar "buffer effect" on your mix, and relative tone. i still think most "house" systems are profiled for vocal range output.

Fender should contact you for presets. Good review!

Godddd damn the Friedman lead tone man!!!!! Stankface!!!!!!

When you set up the modeller at home/in the studio, did it sound dark through the matching Fender FR12 cab? I wonder if there is a way to set that up so it gives a similar feel to PA speakers (ie so you only have to do minor eq tweaks)

Awesome job man! Would love your thoughts on the friedman IRX

As a working musician, TLDR - I got the new TC Electronic Combo 65 which looks like an amp, with analog old school knobs you turn and they do what they're supposed to, and gigged with it, and it was like having a fender amp. Size of two boss pedals. 150 euro. Case closed for me.

I love my HX Stomp to death but I keep going back and forth about having my tube preamp pedal on the loop because of all this.

Hi John - with your current live rig are you sending the signal to your onstage speaker including the speaker/cab model from within the modeler, or are you tapping the signal before the cab block?

John, do you think this differences in tone at different volume levels might have something to do with Fletcher Munson curves? . If this is the case, you might be able to fix it just by tweaking your tones for live use at very high volume at home.

I thought the Friedman model around the 30:00 mark sounded fantastic.

Do you publicize a list of your gigs to attend? I'll be visiting the UK soon on vacation and could be cool to see

Hi John, new to both modelling amps outside of logicX but I do use Helix stomp. Considering ditching amp/cab for gigs / rehearsal and yours has been good unbiased opinion 🫡. My question following your gig and treble heavy sound. If you were running the pedal through the accompanying FRFR cab then out to mixer/front of house, could you use the balance on this amp to roll off the top do you think ?

I really value your opinion with all these devices...I would not feel confident to gig with any of these multieffects/moddlers...I would try to pick an appropriate size/powered amp and my pedalboard. So far has always worked, but am seeing the need for less sound on stage at some venues. I use modelling stuff often in studio, but is a controlled environment.

I like the best clean tone like 65 twin I find the cheaper floor units aren’t the best for clean tones

The looks remind me of the G-System so much 😂😂😂

Seems like you can save different users in the mixer. Maybe do one for home and one for live? And I guess you didn't press save at the gig (on the mixer screen).

Dude! did you ever think to just change the virtual microphone? The default mic on these things tends to be an SM57, which are notoriously fizzy. Swap out the dynamic or condenser for a ribbon, particularly a Coles 4038, and it should get rid of all the fizzy high end and fatten the bass a lot.

Have you tried the FR-12 with the Fractal?

Maybe a silly question but it's something that makes me nervous about modelers. When you run left and right outputs to the front of house/sound board I assume you are using two channels on the mixing board? If so, what are you doing with the eq settings for each channel on the board. Are you running everything at 12 o'clock and then adjusting your eq settings in the modeler OR are you adjusting eq settings on the board first. Or is it in conjunction? We run our own sound and are a 3-4 piece band. Sometimes I'm the only guitar player and sometimes we have a second guitarist. I'm trying to decide if I even need to consider a modeler or if I'm just complicating my life. With an amp I know what my tone is for the most part. I'm also comfortable micing the amp if need be and know pretty close what it's going to sound like. However, to create presets I like at home, get to a gig, do a sound check and think, "oh god that sounds' awful" and have to start tweaking each preset sounds stressful. As a lead singer and guitar player I've got enough on my mind when performing (lyrics, rhythm, lead, crowd banter, etc.). I guess I'm wondering if this would simplify my life or complicate it. I also am not trying to change my sound for every song to try and match the original track. I've got my tone and other than color it doesn't change much. Thanks for any opinions folks want to share.

It occurs to me that Fender has attached a premium price point to this modeller based on their trademarked name. I suspect the FM9 which is a similar price would probably be a better bet.

Well... no complaints about that sound I would say.

Rhett's livestream was 🍿. Although he was getting that hiss/crackle that didnt seem to be in the other videos.