“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

I've been ghost producing for almost five years now. Some of the tracks I've worked on have even reached over 7 million plays on Spotify. Throughout this journey, I've learned to deal with the frustration by producing music for other clients that I wouldn't normally release under my own artist name. This way, if a record becomes a hit, I get my share without thinking, "What if I had released it myself?" Additionally, this approach allows me to work on my own music purely for the art, without worrying about how to make money from it.

Don’t want to offend you …but you should know how the industry works and should not be surprised . Keep on doing what you are doing ! You tracks are ace and you will be successful in the future . Not let this put you done!

Share the song link secretly so we can also hear it 🥲

We are working for the algorithms now 😂

Very great example why an artist should always make music for himself.

Unfortunately, that has happened a lot to me, send in a demo... they don't think it fits their label... later you hear a track that is clearly inspired by your demo... and this is 20 years ago, so the music industry has been like this for a long time.

Been there, done that. Back in the early 2000s. Hearing them say your song is too amateur, then selling it as a ghost production, and then it became a hit... for the same label, with no changes to it whatsoever. It killed my motivation to go on back then. And now I am too old to be hip. :-)

This is my spam KZfaq account but I’ve had largest record labels tell me my song is great but they can’t sign because they only want to release it with bigger artist name. Then they offer to give me split on it but not include my artist name. It’s how the game goes. It’s all social media numbers or knowing the right people now.

Unfortunately, as long as people ghost produce, there will always be successful frauds.

I've been following you now since 2017. Always nice to see a new video. I mean, your production quality are non arguably up there with the big guys. Guess you just have too continue pushing your social media a bit. Wish you all the success :D

Jon chin up ! I Think u have one of the most valuable dance music channels on YT Love how u took us on a journey with building the studio....!

Something like that happened to me twice in the 90s. That's why i stopped sending demo to labels.

The inner circle only works for the inner circle. This is how the commercial music business works. Unfortunately!

Welcome to the club Jon 😅

It would be really interesting to hear your overview of ghost producing, how it works, why modern producers do it, what are the pros and cons, what are the common legal agreements, etc.

Better to not be a dog licking on the doorstep of these stupid labels. Create dope music and make a vibe no need to expect a crazy career out of it, u obviously get paid for this which is more than most can say lol

You have a lot of talent. Your music sounds very good. Keep going and don't give up!

Hey Dude, I was in Düsseldorf today and I especially went to see the outside of your studio ha ha. It’s a very cool but also weird location. I have to say Düsseldorf has the best ladies in all of Germany.

I stopped releasing because the whole market with labels, djs, spotify, soundcloud, algos..... and all that is very at the end. why I should devalue my tracks while throwing it i this sick space?

lesson learned, never use Your music... rather make a new track as a ghost-producer.

I see the same now for touring and djing, there are major big festivals where half stages are given by exchanges, know someone, and these people just exchange clubs between there. They give the slot for free in exchange of booking the person organizing to other clubs of the djs performing. Where is a club booking a dj because is good and can make people dance bringing people? No is just exchanges and not more booked by experience, releases and CV. Sad

I feel like it's just how the industry is nowadays. Labels are looking for artists and not songs. They want someone who has his sound and his following already. The job market is the same honestly. Everyone is looking to hire with X amount of experience and they don't want to train you. Sadly, with streaming platforms and etc... the music industry transformed into consumption only and not quality. They don't care about the music anymore... they just care about the money. The movie industry is turning the same way. All movies getting out lately are pure shit, or remakes of old ''REAL'' movies, and still shit. They want people to listen/watch and that's it. They don't care if you enjoy it or not... they got your money. This is why I'm only producing for myself now. I self release some songs just because it's like a business card, but most of my songs are only in my live DJ sets in clubs. Streaming was never a way to bring more to the artist or bring more artist to the public. It' was only ever about money. I say fuck the industry. Let's keep doing what we love and fuck them out of our art. One day, once there's only shit music, only at that moment great producers and DJs will recognized for what they're worth.

I think many artists come to realization that they are not good enough. It doesnt mean they are not producing good quality sounding tracks, it is just that the material they are producing is not original. A label wants original. If you cannot give them that, then you are just one more. One more drop in the ocean, and all the effort you put into mixing, mastering,etc.... if you have a track that sounds like everything else, then it is a total waste of time. It is not about the sound anymore, that comes later. I am so sick watching KZfaq videos giving advise on how to mix this way or that way. We are forgetting about composing, as musicians, a good song. Check out the creativity in the 80s. The limitation in technology and the real interest for exploiting it but having fun at the same time, was key for creativity. Today everybody copy everybody, it is so ridiculous, and they call it genre! (better than call it copies). So many stupid plugins that they all do the same, and the difference is microscopic. We have everything we can ask to make content that should be amazing, yet we are unable to match the creativity built in the 80s. Just make a good song, not a hit song, just a song that has never done before. Stop listening to what everyone else is doing, stop doing that!!!!!! If the song is great, even though you recorded with a phone, the label will do everything possible to produce and release it.It is not about the quality of the sound, it is meaningless. Too much time employed making sure the track sounds good. Unfortunately for you guys thats the wrong approach. Go camping, grab a guitar and try to make a song away from the screen.

Same here. I ghost produce many techno artists and i wanted to try to sell one of my tracks to a big one which i did, and was taken by the label in a week haha somerthing that for me took more than 4 months of waiting to recieve a ''it's a very good track but not quite sure for now'' lol... Nowdays to be honest record labels are not doing much for you, less for a career but i totally understand the feeling you described. It's sad. I think that the WHY we are keep doing this, even if we have to produce for other people to pay the bills, is because we really love the art of making music and it's just pure love that even when things get super hard we are just not going to stop because we love to create so much!. All the best man! sooner or later you will make it (for me you did already) living by doing something you love, is full success!

Keep the faith! Be proud of what you do

I think it doesn't go your way doesn't mean you shouldn't be proud, it will sound a little ugly, but it's the ego talking. And it's okay for the ego to speak if it pushes you forward. But what you we all have to learn here, that the music is important, but not everyone who makes beautiful music will be welcomed with open arms by any label. We need to stand out, be different, work hard, with a lot of passion and love. Thank you very much for sharing, it opened up the poor completely for me. What you do know is that your music is amazing, just a little more work around and it will also be under your name. Good luck champion!!

I had the same happen to me I sent my bounce track to bounce heaven it was refused, I have ghost produced 6 tracks for my client 4 of them have been signed to that label, I am happy they got signed but it makes me feel like people just don't like me, my client ain't even got a following he has a smaller following than me so don't get it, maybe I should just try make another bounce track as my own and submit again, why don't you do the same? but I understand what you mean

I think that is how life is. sometimes we are appreciated in a different way. I sent my beat to one person and trashed it, anotherone bought it and it became a big hit. (I noloner upload my beats here on youtube, I think the last one was two years ago when I was still interested haha). I send my beats to people and it fulfills me when they appreciate and use them. Even though no one knows me but I know back behind, i am pushing some people's careers ahead, that i count it too.

That is really sad. Which genre was the song you produced for them?

hey jon, could you please make a video about an agreement of ghost production? You have great experience on this so you can share major points.

well, I understand it's frustrating that the other artist signed the song, and not you, but.. you got payed and you decided to give this song away. You could have released it on other labels. As long as the music is that good, it will get the recognition at the end if you do it right, even if the label is smaller. The Spotify algorithm can help A LOT with that. At the end labels will always sign audiences, and not music. I don't see how the music industry is the problem here.

Jon, you are the ghostproducer and therefore are a reason for this. Don’t complain about the game if you are a player.

The sad reality about the music industry today is label don’t want to do anything when it comes to the music side of things. Today, the artist is expected to write, produce, record vocals, mix, master a track, send out promo package to DJ’s and mix shows, and already have your social media funnel to promote the song. All they want to do is collect streaming royalties and publishing revenue. At some point, all artist have to ask themselves, why do you need the label if you’re doing all the work for half the profits?

I feel you. I had this song sent to this big label, they said "Nice tune, but you are not there yet", fair enough the quality was not great. I ended up releasing with a small record label. Later on one of the biggest fashion brand at the time wanted to use that same tune for their summer ad campaign and they offer a big payment. This big record label somehow saw that, they relicense the song and release it... PS: Never saw one single cents...

I feel you. So does this mean there is no chance for us producers who doesn't even have 1 follower to get signed to a label or labels varies with their approach to signing new artists?

Hey Jon die gleiche Story gab es doch schon mal bei dir??? schon länger her 🙄🙄🙄🙄

2:50 I don't think that it counts more, I think that it maybe was a decent song, but your following was not as good as the other person ? I think with the other person they signed themselves a decent song released by a person with a following they also like so it's a win for the label in both cases I guess. I'm framing it like that because the artist in me wishes to believe that if it was an ultra banger song, they'd have signed it regardless, but as it maybe didn't reach that threshold, other factors came into account when signing it, and they didn't like those.

By being a ghost producer you are directly contributing to the shit you are complaining about. Maybe this will serve as a learning experience 🤔

First world problems! ;-)

This is why I don’t wanna ghost produce

thats sad...

Fresh cut. Damn, it's really weird to pass through that situation, for sure you are keeping up with the bills, but your main goal for sure is to be heard alot more world wide.. a lot to think but cheers, your music is top notch, and labels know it, artists too.... u are a great artist but could be nice to look you more active at social media like IG, I know that you have a family and you are getting a new home, but could be perspective from a different point that could help you, you already got the love of your family, prestine music, I mean.... at the end John, I hope that you feel more motivated soon =)....

I know how you're feeling bro. I can seee it in your face and i can hear it in your voice. You will come up with something much better than that tune and you would do things differently. keep working.

Maybe you can start negotiating the terms in the future if the track does well enough and get a remix feature for your own track? :)

"Not getting paid"😂😂

great video

That means you are one year ahead producer over the market 🎉

Honestly I'm sorry to hear, that feels awful and indeed shows one aspect that is utterly wrong about the whole industry. People gotta get the difference between musicians and influencers. If peeps wanna see influencers they should go to a vidcon or sth

I mean isn’t that what he hired you for ghost producer. You produce and they take credit.

edm = event driven marketing .....so crowds are more important that music ,...sad but true ...keep it on

what if it was a different person at the label that heard it? also, when you know the artist you become more forgiving and give the record a chance, especially if you like them.

Na don’t feel bad. Can’t hate the player, it’s the game. Also in the contract you can keep a portion of the licensing, even 10% so you get residuals. Ask chat GPT to write your ghost writing contract

Did you not get creds for producing that track? Like whos credited as producer?

It's very sad but that's how it is apparently. :/ Thank you for your transparency!

At least you got payed and things are done legally, frustating for sure but better than being stolen. The other disgusting part is that some labels use demos from small artists and copy them and use it for their artists. From big labels it's very disgusting... 4:56 the lead remind me so much of a track in Need For Speed Carbon

Try 7 days trail of Voxillion and try to give it review or feedback for my suggestion 😁

algorithm hasn't recommende you to me in over two years, as a subscriber. you look good. definitely look like you get more sleep. the black circles under your eyes seem to have diminished. sorry you're frustrated. as an old guy, i leearned to stop allowing frustration to happen. it's a choice to be frustrated.

It's really sad. The music industry is not interested in real talents. It's all about streams, likes and followers. 20 years ago the industry was pushing young unknown talents, no matter how big there audience was. But sadly not anymore today. I make music since back in 2007 and i've worked hard to make my way up to the follow things: I have worked together with famous gold awarded german rap-artists and also with german Top-10-chartproducers & i had releases on one of germany's most successful independent-labels in collaboration with Universal Music as distribution partner and i charted in the official austria dance charts with one of my songs. I reached all this without a management - just with hard work and a big dream❤ Sounds good? Yeah, of course. But still just a little amount of people out there know my music. And here we are again: If you don't have a viral hit or a big followership on social media platforms, no label or another big person in the industry will give you a push. No matter how talented you are as a musician. Sad but true...

"the music should count".. I hate to say this man, but that is an outdated idea. the music is just a piece of it now. people want someone that can resonate with. if you got rejected, don't get down about it, get up. maybe there's things about your brand/personality you have blindspots to that labels are seeing. if everyone likes cheeseburgers, theyre going to sell chesseburgers, and if youre a filet mignon, you just dont have marketability. food for though, i do appreciate your channel though.

Honestly I do not think this is even such a shitty move. In the end, what does an artist want out of a deal with a major label: attention, an audience, following. Why do you expect (major) labels to be any different? They became major, not because they supported and pushed smaller artists (which they, in some cases, also do of course), but mainly, because they released some upcoming, trending artists to gain: attention, an audience, following. The big mass music industry works like that. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is. If you look on the smaller artists that are released within a major label, they most often have some personal relations to the big names involved. I know a ton of great labels, which really decide piece per piece, if the music fits on their label and is on par in terms of quality and originality. But even though, they are arguably releasing "better" music than the majors are, they will never reach that audience. Because releasing great music is secondary if you want to be "on top". I am not saying that major labels are not releasing some great tracks too, it is just not first priority. What I am also trying to tell you: Don't take it personally! This does not mean, that they do not "like" you. They just measured pros and cons and decided that this track under your name would not benefit them enough... (im assuming, of course!)

Deemn! The universe takes before it gives ;) Ps. The track is F-ing dope 👁👁

The drop after the singing is way too slow, hard to dance to.

Ich schätze mal das ging an Afterlive, so wie sich der Track am Ende anhört. Aber ist ja nix neues, dass die großen Labels deine Audience "mitreleasen". Wenn du ein Labels möchtest, was darauf weniger achtet aber dafür auch kaum Budget für Marketing hat, dann gibt's da ja unzählig viele von. Aber ja, sind halt alles keine großen Labels.

Forget labels, here's KZfaq. And don't make your joy and hobby "work." Find "a normal" job so you have f... you money. Then life begins. :)

It could be as simple as the label seeing your social media as a liability, example: this video....something triggers you, you make a video ranting about it, everyone loses

I think they are right - song is good but they dont like you as artist, because you have a wife and kid and home and stuck in the place. That other artist is preformer so they will earn not only on song from streaming but he will create moooore streams and more money from concerts. So it’s not even they don’t like you as a person but you would’t be that good investment with time and effort for them to promote and then only earn few thousands when they can use your song and earn hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars. Same on every business, you get contract for building bridge and hire other contractors to do it FOR YOU, you take their skills but they are not known as builders of that bridge. Donald Trump probably never put any brick in his buildings.

Label doesn’t want to invest in following. It’s the nature of the new game. I’ve worked with sexy red on 4 projects (you can check her video credits). And the label rarely invests in someone anymore.

I would advise you to do different genres when ghost producing or a different style from your brand. That way if it blows up you don’t feel that bad because it’s not a song you would of released under your brand anyways

Im sorry my dude. But it just shows your doing well keep grindin boss !😊

Never give up man... but yes this is sad...

Hi jon sine you should check out those 4 video.BlackySpeakz Rapper Explains the Truth about Major Labels. KingAkademiks Why is your Favourite Rapper getting dropped by Atlantic? DJ Akademiks speaks on labels Tactics! You might be more interested about and u might want to incorporated into your AI video labels replacing artist with AI music and music on a decline.👇 DAMION 'DAMIZZA' YOUNG : Hip-Hop's Most Powerful Ally In Radio | R.O.A.D. @59:08 / 2:03:31 Rick Beato Know You're Angry, So Am I...

It's business. Not everyone can be the frontman.

Sorry to hear about this... I know a friend, who makes brilliant music, you will love his songs on the first time you hear, he is that good. He has the same issue, the label does not like him as a person unfortunately. I would suggest, I know its your song, but you need an avatar for yourself. We live in the world of artificial intelligence, maybe its time to create an avatar for yourself ;)

Is there anything you can learn from Tom Macdonald? Maybe reach out to him?

Follower > Talent.

Imagine a world when anybody who is asked to ghost-produce something to someone else… will say no. Hoppala… those great songs will be released by the labels from the person who made it. Or… release it yourself if it’s good and enjoy the number of listeners who csn be attached to that song via feelings, regardless the numbers.

no need to be upset people change in the industry all the time a year ago it's not now don't need to blame yourself...keep it up !!!!

After hearing this man and see the comments of some people to not complain... WTF!?!?. You have all the right to complain and all the people in the same situation should complain. I left music maany years ago, because of this stupid games in music industry, but don't give up. We shall fight against it. Do your thing and keep up. try to expose your music on internet, there are ways to be known without labels these days... full of trash and with AI generated music lately.

Hi John, I feel sorry for you. That's quite a sad story. But are you really surprised by the music business though? What they did to you is daily business in the music industry. Until the power of the major labels stays untouched, this will never change. The wrong people are deciding what music gets picked, based on the wrong criteria. We really need some kind of a decentralized block chain thing for music and the charts. So that not one central power can control it in any way. Something like Bitcoin for music or even something based on bitcoin. Whatever, I am just making something up that was going through my mind. Unfortunately, the music industry has new problems around the corner. The process of making music is getting pretty disrupted by A.I at the moment and the amount of "really good music" that is released every day is just too much. It's an overload. That means, that only people who have money for marketing and connections like for example the major labels can make something big to large audiences. Because they have the money and the power. In the beginning if you are a nobody people have to hear your name everywhere and they have to see you everywhere in order to realize that you are a "star". But that takes a lot of luck like in the lottery or a just a lot of money. Good music you can buy or steal from people like you. And the rest is done by money. Anyway, I wish you all the best brother. Keep working hard and I hope one day you make it big. For me and many other people you are already a star. 😉 💫✌❤

Music never counts....its the artist and his followers

at this moment I would be glad just to get paid.. one gives a f.. about me as an artist, even if I release a killer song..if somebody else is singing my song to a huge audience, awesome :)!!

I never ghost write

I guess, the argument can be turned around easily: Is it you that you want to get heard or is it your music? If it’s the music, well, then you succeeded. If it’s you, then why bother, if someone is successful with your music? You see, it’s all fine😃

You need a arpegiato in the buildup.

Yo mista Sine ❤

It‘s your own fault. No one forced you to ghostproduce, isn‘t it? Correct me if Im wrong, but if no one would participate in this ghostproduction madness, the commercial music scene wouldnt be such a mess.

Some sold their souls, and it wasnt you. Take this to heart or youll regret it. much ....much latter. Dont beg labels. find you own way. But what do i know...

Cmon. Of course it matters which artists releases the music. Labels have to pay their employees, their rent and keep everything running. It's about money, so OF COURSE reach counts. After all these years in the music business - I can't believe this actually surprises you...

Bro, it's your image. They don't think it's marketable. Could be face, physique. Hard to hear but it is what it is.

All these labels and companies with so much power over who gets exposure will always screw over 90% of artists as long as profits are #1 priority. Current system sucks

Yoa are a great marketer jon Sine

This is the least of your worries. Soon AI takes over the whole pop thing. Really, really cool song with great sound!

Welcome to reality

it was less risk releasing it for the other more famous guy. But you should be motivated that it's reaching success, it says a lot about your ability. Also; ditch the sample packs dude. Thats not gonna push the needle and takes away the focus from the main thing.There a gazillion other packs out there spending more time on it than you. Saying this to help! Peace

Not weird at all, here in 🇯🇲 That's The Norm, if you aren't friends with cettian ppl you'll be screwed over

One of the saddest thing about the industry.

yeah, welcome to reality, bro. This is not the 90s or even the 2000s. Thanks for sharing 🫂

Why I stopped making music, more about followers than content

Just get over yourself and enjoy any kind of label signing. Sure they want the more marketable artist but write another banger and get your revenge!