wont fire work too?

@@SmileyFace01 Fire sure would work. Too hard to control where the enamel stops burning off though. You would get much more precice control of where the enamel remains by sanding.

@@FPVKrash Well when burning the enamel off I still like to sand it a bit.. so It's probably just an unnecessary step

@@SmileyFace01 Only time I’ve burned enamel off wire has been when I was rewiring a fencing foil, but it doesn’t matter if a bit more enamel comes off in that process. Having burned enamel off wire, it’s not something I’d ever try on a motor wire. Some folx sanded their wire after burning enamel, I never did and always had great conduction.

​@@SmileyFace01fire may lead to oxidised metal making a bad solder connection. Sandpaper ist better, but at that wire thickness using a silicone abrasive disc from proxxon may be the easiest was.

It is worth if for winding guitar pickups though. It is more sensitive, and gives you a wider range over copper.

Most important tool are broken probs. Use the prob blades to press wires to the teeth.

​@@krautergarten4529Broken props are so versatile lol. Other uses are motor wire protection and of course as a stabby tool.

Assuming motor is designed to the limit, would smaller air gap still increase performance if the magnetic circuit is already saturated at max power?

@@combinacijus The magnetic circuit should never be "staturated" in a good design, that would cause high losses ... bad efficency but high torque density in some limits. So u always have some kind of design wiggle room. Smaller air gap will give u higher flux in the air gap. Or the same flux with thinner magnets -> lower weight. These rc motors are never designed for max efficency or power, they are designed to be cheap. U will never find room for more copper in a good motor design. But u are right, u will never know which materials were used for the stator lamination or the flux return ring, so increasing the magnet grade or the thickness has some limits.

@@The_1ntern3t If u need a stabby tool for ur last windings u know that the motor will rock🤘 or burn 🤪

You can pack more copper into the motor when it is neatly wound.

@@taavituisk8452 Is that the intention though if you need a specific number of windings?

@@adamrobertson7215 For the same number of turns you are able to use larger gauge wire (more copper) or are able to make a smaller more efficient motor with less air gaps if using the same amount of copper.

@@taavituisk8452 Due to larger air gaps, messy winding will experience lower proximity effect, and thus lower effective resistance (the coil will also be higher Q, if you care about that).

@@unknownhours so which effects outweigh?? Are there applications where windings are purposely made more loose?

Yay. There's someone here who understands where the electrical issues are. (I stuck to the economics vs performance difference)

That only applies in a stall condition if that isn’t obvious to you then you don’t know nearly enough about motors

@@geekswithfeet9137 Actually, it's called steady state, but ohms law absolutely applies to A/C, you just have to calculate the RMS value for the frequency you're using, and determined the maximum load the wire can handle. With brushless motors, you're creating an electrical short with every pulse, at 100% throttle, there's little to no resistance coming from the controller, and it's like apply the battery directly across the wire for a moment. You can do it, but over a shot period of time the wire heats up and melts the coating even with the pulses.

@@jacobsoby3910 so inductance and back EMF don’t exist? Lol, KV what is that?….. clown

@@geekswithfeet9137 The inductance is minimal, and when the coil is fully energized, it becomes an electrical short. KV is simply the number of 1000's of RPM per volt.

That’s not a lot of silver. Silver at between $20-$30/oz I’m guessing it’s $5 worth of silver.

Hmmm,good question,so 5.00$ is that correct?

​@@jtcustomknivesyea, but that doesn't include making an enamel coated wire from it.

Would actually be good to know actually how much the enamel wire is,just out of curiosity.

​@@jtcustomknivesplus he said sterling silver, so its not even pure

or showed how much easier it is to wind the silver being a softer metal.

Good point. If you’re winding your own motors, why not keep it super clean and not add unnecessary joints. That could end up as a super-sick build but personally, I wouldn’t be able to handle it if I clipped a wire too short when soldering to the ESC. 😅

@@FPVKrash Imagine, and you know it is going to be the last wire of the last motor that's too short! And the agony deciding between an ugly little extension or rewinding the motor 🤣

@@dfgaJK 😂Stop. Put it on the shelf. Forget about it, and start building an entirely new quad. Get board, and pull it off the shelf, to get winding again.

electricity flows over the surface of the wire not inside of it, hence the silver coated copper. It melted because there was a flaw somewhere in his winding.

@@MetatronsCube23 "electricity flows over the surface of the wire not inside of it," Direct current flows through the entire thickness. Radio frequency energy travels mostly on the surface, how deep it penetrates depends on frequency. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect "At 60 Hz in copper, skin depth is about 8.5 mm"

Probably do the opposite, and give the AC 'noise' a direct path in to the DC circuitry.

indeed.....925 isnt pure silver

Very little difference, because it's only a few percent lower resistance then Copper. The change in dynamic balance compared to the factory made machine-wound motors will have more effect at limiting the RPM and Acceleration.

Agreed, little difference. A few% lower terminal resistance. Easier to wind copper tighter to get that vs silver wire. Can't really pull silver wire as tight. More gains can be had from magnetics improvements

@@PiDsPagePrototypes sure, but sometimes a few percent is enough to justify a cost to some people. I mean, there are certainly people out there who would pay the increased cost for that extra few percent for a factory machine-wound silver wire motor. I wonder if it's possible to get a machine wound motor (not at retail, but a one-off set) for testing against the same motor made with a copper conductor... If we wanted to know the no kidding performance increase, contacting might be the next step; in fact, this might've been the best first step to get a set made to compare apples to apple. That single set will likely be a few to several hundreds of dollars, and likely the best way to get them made would be to run a small group-buy, or run a small batch to sell as retail to bring the per unit cost down significantly, at a steep upfront investment cost. I'm pretty new to the hobby, but if someone wanted to do such a thing, and chose a good motor as the foundation, I'd likely be willing to buy a couple sets to have for myself if the cost/set weren't more than about three times the cost of the same motors in copper. One of my other big hobbies (high end mechanical keyboards) is pretty much all based on group buys, so I know Chinese manufacturers are pretty willing to do this sort of thing, and the hard part is finding someone willing to do the leg work to go through the process.

@@iammeuru outside of electric pylon racing, the percentage difference is not worth the time, money, or performance advantage, because the mass difference will have greater influence on a motors ability to change speeds. Until ambient temperature superconductor wire becomes available, Copper will remain the best choice overall, for all but edge cases.

@@PiDsPagePrototypes huh? there is a weight difference between silver and copper, but it's going to be pretty small given the volume used on these motors (max of maybe 1g/motor?), further this is all contained in a non-rotational part, thus not effecting the speed the motor can accelerate. Your cost analysis isn't necessarily the same as everyone else, I suspect there are plenty of people who don't exist at the margins where this is useful to them, but who would still be willing to buy some of these motors. I am someone who would probably be willing to buy a set of these motors (factory wound) even if it drove the cost to double to triple/motor... I wouldn't build a fleet of units with them, but I'd definitely be willing to do it for a dream build, even if I wasn't realistically going to take full advantage of it... If I were rich enough to where it wasn't a significant drain on my bank account I'd buy a McLaren P1 or Porsche 918 Spyder even though I'm not capable of taking the car anywhere near its limits; I mean even at a much more "for the masses" example, people buy large trucks to never use them as anything but a commuter every day. As for the time part, the reason we would want to know the numbers is because it would be possible to get these motors produced (factory wound) if there were a definitive demand, which would be driven by knowing what the performance difference is, and marketing it accordingly. The time difference would be non-existent if they just came that way in a box. Also, we are not the best community to use as an example for people who consider their time to be the most valuable resource; think of how many people build rather than BnF.

Litz wire is not going to improve anything - the frequencies at which it would make sense are in the megahertz range, and motors work in the low kilohertz at most. The skin effect is almost absent at this frequency, so even using silver plated copper is dubiously advantageous at motor speeds. Eg. Maximum fpv motor speeds are around 30000 rpm, which is only 500 Hz. Skin effect only starts to become significant at 10000 Hz.

From within the motor, inductance smooths out pwm to where coils really just see commutation frequency. This means that skin effect is almost nil. Commutation is generally not above 500hz, whereas pwm may be 8k to 22k.

that would be cool i've been thinking about how the stator laminations could be simplified for such a motor, but haven't found a solution that's one of the problems that have to be solved before they are introduced

Ugh, why did I have to see your comment. Now that’s all I hear 😫

As said, with huge generators you use huge wires. Try to find a 0.x square wire shaped rectangular. I did not succeed.

@@wolframzirngibl1147 sometimes people make their own stuff on KZfaq.

In the coils it's just the commutation frequency, as the inductance smooths pwm frequency to be almost nil. So skin effect in this size of motor inside the coils is not really a factor.