Nice, I truly hope you enjoy it

@Chosen One Not at launch at least but we don't know

@Chosen One We don't know

@Chosen One I have no idea now

@Chosen One really not bad at all

for sure, if the game is crap, I just won't bother, but I trust AMG enough

And come up with more scenario/mission cards like you mention.

The card packs are their time to do it but it never feels enough

5th Trooper are doing errata cards for patreons

@@tomsyn which level patreon do you need to be?

@@richardl8892 if i remember correctly, anything above the $10 mark

Yeah the keywords are the paint point. And fair enough, Legion is a great game to be fair.

Same I feel your pain

Pretty simple, I was getting sick of legion already and if shatterpoint is bad, I won't play that either... I'm not calling the game good

You can but you will need cards and stuff

@@TabletopOddity All those are DiY rules, though many have franchises like SW already rated by other players. The only ones needing cards for gameplay either just need a regular deck of playing cards or you can print the cards out yourself (though fancier ones are available). I use B&B and GH, but Space Weirdos costs $5 and requires nothing else that can't be scrounged up.

My opinion is not overly informed these days, and I am not sure I made that point well enough. My views on competitive play comes from experienced comeptitive players who are some of the best in the business. also I think the game itself is perhaps very stregic and tactical in design, which makes it comeptitive. Like compare Legion to Warcry, I think the best Legion player beats the average Legin played like 9.9 times out of 10, but the best warcry player might beat an average Warcry player 7 out of 10. I don't know if I am making sense there. I agree that Shatterpoint will go the same way because it's made by the same people. I enjoyed Legion more when it was perhaps more basic. So you are very right, it is contridictory but hopefully in an understandable way.

'Balance' issues aren't limited to Competitive play. It's no fun to be casually playing with &/or against a Faction that is over or under powered.

I think legion is mostly balanced but with strong meta that tends to pop up that often ruins it

I have no idea if shatterpoint will be good, but if it isn't, I don't mind, I just won't play it. I know it's going to be a skirmish game that very likely plays quickly, if they make it badly then they make it badly and I won't play. If it isn't what I want, that is also okay. I am not sure I understand your issue? I tried to make it semi clear that I was pretty much done with Legion anyway, this is just the final death blow to me.

I am hoping it is casual, and it would fit in better in my mind if it is

I am assuming that with the IP they maybe couldn't do two games same models even if they wanted

@@TabletopOddity So you are assuming that the IP worries about Scale in the games? So if they would make minis of the same scale than Legion, there would be a problem with existing agreements? I do assume that this will be essentially a re-skin of MCP, with some new mechanics to differentiate the two IP's.

@@RandomDude-jq9mu No, I am assuming that there is difficulties with IP licensing because they would be the same game but not really. Like GW own Kill team and 40k, so no issues, but AMG are buying the IP, what if they lose the license for one of the games or something. I don't know, I just suspect it is complicated

@@TabletopOddity I doubt it’s complicated at all and it comes down to the almighty dollar. You could still keep it the same scale and release new sculpts making it a “new” product. People would use legion miniatures though and AMG would’t get as much money though.

@@chunkycornbread4773 oo for sure, they think this makes them the most money

I think we will 100% see that

…but you already can in legion

True interesting though

I agree, it always seemed really hard to add sequel stuff to Legion so it'll be fun to see it pop up here if it does.

I understand what you are saying but fffff the sequels XD

@@BubblegumJpt that's okay, you can do something else while we're having fun.

There is no sequel trilogy... 😐

Easy right. But no, I am actually okay with simple, and yes I want a balcned game with not a shed ton of updates, now that one I appreciate is difficult. But also I do want a casual game but I am okay with losing at tournaments. It seems you are putting words in my mouth which I don't think I said. I think the issues are more nuanced than they seem though. Some times it's how they are done. For example you can have a simple game that is easy to learn difficult to master, or vice versa. And for losing at a tournament, I sort of want a casual competitive game, which means, if I play someone better than me, I want the other player to win maybe like 7 out of 10, as oppose to like 9 out of 10. I am not expecting one game to cover everything I want, but Legion wasn't covering anything I wanted anymore.

the old world is pure nostalgia for me, there's a very good chance I will hate what GW do as well.

@@TabletopOddity Same here, but my wallet will help me to resist the temptation. 😀

It's good game for sure

That’s what I do too. To hell with the updates, whatever it says in my rulebook and on my cards is what we play 🤫

I agree really and sadly more into fantasy than sci fi but I will try Shatterpoint

@@TabletopOddity For fantasy, I'd recommend Relicblade, which is fairly light and plays quick on a 2x2 board. Outside of that, A Song of Blades and Heroes, as well as Pulp Alley are both great rule sets that offer a ton of flexibility in unit creation and they're both miniatures agnostic systems.

@@sackofpeas2470 Relicblade sounds dope!

I might still cover news, maybe, I am not fully ruling it out, but shatterpoint has my interest very strongly

yeah that is a bit of a big issue

It's a good game!

Yeah indeed, I like some big games though, but I don't know, this one feels right to me.

So play the 500 point skirmish mode in Legion…

@@mikep3494 difficult to get my 12 year old interested in that, too much choice for her way of thinking I’m afraid, will be a lot easier when the choices are cut back in this game, well, I imagine it will be easier for her

@@mikep3494 It's not really all the popular to be fair is it?

@@mikep3494 Quite frankly, it's laso not that good!

Yeah, I mean Legion will be supported but things will be spread out for sure

I was thinking, you are probably right, in the long run MCP will likely run it's course.

Fair enough, I hope everyone enjoys Legion :)

Yeah I think I just want more chaos. I've lost legion games due to dice and one specific moment and while that feels bad, I think it feels worse because there's not much randomness in the game so the few moments stand out.... Not explaining myself well. But yes legion is good but SharePoint suits me and my life

I'm on the hype train but if it crashes, I will get over it!

I could, I just don't want to play Legion! I think it's a good game but I don't think it's the right one for me anymore.

I think I will just move on, but thanks :)

Look into onepagerules also. It’s inspired by 40K but you can play the game with any minis you own.

Makes sense, lets hope it's good

Fair enough :)

And that's the sticking point, we can argue that they will only sell one, and there's no need for multiple, we can argue that it's half an army but 4 models fo $50 just seems high

Shame but hope you have fun with Legion

@@TabletopOddity Well, everything can't be for everyone😊 I like bigger scale and longer games myself. 😁

Heh that's very possible!

This should maybe be a quicker game if short on time

Yeah I am looking for a more casual game, no harm in that. Legion is also a little elitist :P

Nice

Yeah I am not calling Legion bad!

Yeah I think legion is just not a gray casual game in my opinion and I'm more and more casual these days

I will happily give this a bash, hope it's good :)

@@TabletopOddity with three years in the making, I hope so. I will pre-order when available. :) look forward to more content, you always are informative and offer great perspectives.

ooo yeah, it could be hot garbage, if so, I won't play it

Apologies

Yes, I tend to think like 2 games is the right amount, and always be checking if something suits you better

That's not bad thought

Yeah I don't actually dislike legion and the new changes I think actually start solving a lot of my issues with the game. Shatterpoint could be bad, I know that. But I think I'm ready for a skirmish game and regret missing out on mcp

@Tabletop Oddity yeah that makes sense.

@@randifelix I hope all legion players are happy with the game :)

@Tabletop Oddity I loved the moment where my opponent said "your troops are now frightened and will run to their mom's.... HAHAHA" until I told him "Vader is in range, they're not going anywhere" and from that moment I feltthe true power of legion 😅😅. The battles are unforgettable when you're into it.

@@randifelix heh yeah that kind of stuff is super fun :)

Nah, I wasn't enjoying Legion that much anyway, so if shatterpoint is bad, I will just move on.

Yeah I am not even calling Legion bad, it's mainly just not for me in the way I percieve it.

Legion is a great competitive game....a bit poor as a for fun game

I think Shatterpoint will be cheapish to play (the starter box gives you 2 full "armies" which you can then mix around in loads of combinations) but way more expensive to collect everything. But yeah quicker games, smaller number of minis....good

Yeah I've got a video about it

I have no idea what you mean by that but if it's not for you that's all good

I am a terrible painter and hobbiest

Indeed, just a lot less hassle to get games in.

I think some people might do that

Nah, if you are interested in Legion, give it a go, it's great for some people!

I think maybe Horus Heresy and The Old World might be the antidote for that concern.

I know, I am happy with that, I was just sort of done with Legion anyway I think

If they did kill Legion it will be slow and not that painful

No, we aren't getting demo of the games till adepticon (or any earlier article)

If the game is bad I just simply won't play it or Legion. It embodies the clone wars sure, but Star Wars feels mostly character driven and small fights rather than mass battle overall.

@@TabletopOddity It depends. If we are talking about the Rebellion vs Empire conflict, yes. In fact, I always found weird the direct contact between Rebels and Empire in Legion. But if we are talking about the Clone Wars, which seems to be the era that Shatterpoint is aiming, so we can compare it with Legion Clone Wars, no. I mean, you just need to see the Clone Wars animation movies that arr heavily based on battles between thousands of clones and droids.

@@artharionsanchez1793 The clone wars tv show is generally not focused on big battles, like there's big battles happening but it's very character driven

@@TabletopOddity All movies and TV shows are focused on characters and are very character driven, that's how narrative works. It wouldn't work to watch a WWII movie where we just see randoms soldiers just fighting. Movies like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers are focused in showing the story of a character or a group of characters in the WWII, still, the conflict is the conflict not by the characters but by its nature and all the people involved in it. By your assumption, Bolt Action should not embody better the WWII conflict, but instead, it should be a Skirmish WWII game where you see Lt Winters against some German Officer. Or if we want to be more specific with the Star Wars universe, following your argument, games like Star Wars Armada should not embody better the conflict regarding Space Battles because Star Wars are focused on characters and not space battles. Clone Wars, like the name says, are wars, not isolated skirmishes, so for me it fits better to have a game that includes a lot of miniatures in a battlefield rather than a skirmish game. I think that a good Skirmish game for Star Wars should be focused in scum and villains in the outer rim. Seeing a skirmish between some bountyhunters, mercenaries, smugglers in Tatooine would catch the Star Wars feel when it comes to skirmishes. I understand that you're hyped about the new game, and I think that is the fact that it is a new brand game that is going to be fully suppoted by AMG one of the reasons why you have choose it over Legion which is a bit abandoned, and this has makes you convince yourself that Shatterpoint will embody better the Star Wars Clone War era, but I think this is just a subjective psychological justification that you have created to believe that you have made the right choice and that you will be focused on the "best game" of Star Wars ground combat.

@@artharionsanchez1793 heh I am not justifying anything because I don't even really like Star Wars, I don't care if Star Wars is all about wars or not. I have no idea if Shatterpoint will be a better game, I have no idea if I will actually enjoy it more, I just think I will enjoy a skirmish game more due to personal reasons. The universe of Star Wars has never been super relevant to me. I wasn't really making any assumptions about Star Wars, just saying that a skirmish game isn't exactly crazy, in a world with lightsaber duels and stuff, but then again neither are mass battles when there are wars. You might be reading a bit too much into it. I just want a game I play in a small space, in about 1 hour and is actually good and popular...I probably should have tried MCP.

Yea i will brainwash my little one to think a 60 minute game is fun, I just need her to be a bit older :P But i still think Legion is a great game, I just always wished it was proper skirmish and now that time has come (in a different way).

I am not sure if you are a Legion fan or not? The big companies want to sell you mini's that's how they make the money, the smaller companies want to sell you rules, that's how they make their money. I am not sure what lesson can be learned beyond that.

To me that's a very fair point, I am not skillfull or knowledgeable to make that claim but the game does feel very meta dependant and the best players obviously use the meta. I know that the best player can rock junk lists but why would they.

Shatterpoint will be expensive per model I bet you

I will follow Legion, I might still do the odd event but only till the old world I think

you can't just be blown of the table, while you positioning matters, it's not a game of hiding behind the corner of a wall taking pot shots for most of it.

@@TabletopOddity I never played legion or what people would call a war game. I bought shatterpoint though and I am just a little scared that I won’t feel choice will matter much and I am buying a game with the smokescreen of Star Wars to hide lackluster gameplay. But I am willing to give it a go.

Tricky position, Shatterpoint I think makes most sense but maybe not

lol you would know that much better than I do! Are we getting a Shatterpoint Visual Guide series?

100% yes, it would be insane not to.

@@TabletopOddity agreed. They might handle it like Legion, but in reverse. A heap of releases for the Clone Wars factions, then come out with a Galactic Civil War starter and start releasing add-ons for that.

I am waiting for warhammer for my fantasy fix!

No harm in that. Thanks

For me I think I will do WFB / TOW and Shatterpoint, but I get why people play Legion ist is great

I'm going to be playing Warhammer The Old World and I don't think I have time, otherwise I would!

@@TabletopOddity Yes another game im looking forward too! It seems I have far to much time on my hands :D

but to be fair I still have my old Warhammer pre aos armies, so I have an head start

@@gazmatraz5248 heh I made a new channel for it called Always Strikes Back

@@gazmatraz5248 nice

For sure, lets wait and see

I think it's mainly different design philosophy, like realistic be stylised, and once they decided to switch it up, they might as well do MCP scale

I wouldn't play in tourny's if I had a regular play group, I just don't have that.

@@TabletopOddity It can be a challenge depending on circumstances to get games. So hope you find some fun, and now got a Star Wars playmate.

Heh I like strategy but I like a different kind from what Legion offers, I also like simplified rules that aren't hard work....all true

I'm glad I started Legion when it first came out. To pick it up now from scratch I'd find the expansive rules hard to take in. :)

It's a really good game for those who like it. It sort of reminds me of warmachine, like thos eplayers would probably really like it.

I currently both play Legion and MCP and the meta chages are both similar speed. But the cost for MCP is way more as they release alot of content and if you wanna play comp you need those cards.

@@MrJasondeth they haven’t had a release with “generic” cards in it for quite some time now. Everything just comes with their own affiliation specific cards, so you don’t have to buy everything if you don’t want to.

it makes sense, I just trust AMG and I will cover it in the next few months.

always better than playing away :P

i think legion can be the competitive game and Shatterpoint can just be cahos and fun. I'd be happy with that.

heh I am home brewing now!

@@TabletopOddity I mean even in Marvel Crisis protocol there3d printing there own models for hero's who aren't out yet!

You can, but it felt shoe horned in and unloved, the new special ops though, that looks good.

that's fair enough :)

It is looking like star wars MCP with some interesting tweaks

Well. It could replace it if AMG chose, and we have no idea which is the better game for now. Legion is right now as you can play it :P

@@TabletopOddity that is true, but I've spent quite a lot of money on legion, and if it's done, well that isn't exactly my most favorite thought

@@pizza1866 Enjoy Legion and do'nt stress

Nice, i would love some of the old minis myself

Legion is strategic and great in many ways but it just out grew me

Yeah AMG have a few issues they need to sort