I Ripped Up My Sponsor’s Check - Intel Fab Tour

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Linus Tech Tips

Linus Tech Tips

Күн бұрын

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You've waited long enough for a follow-up. It's what we're calling the "overview tour" of the giant Intel fab I visited in Israel. The place where the CPUs are made. It's amazing.
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MUSIC CREDIT
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Intro: Laszlo - Supernova
Video Link: • [Electro] - Laszlo - S...
iTunes Download Link: itunes.apple.com/us/album/sup...
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Outro: Approaching Nirvana - Sugar High
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Listen on Spotify: spoti.fi/UxWkUw
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Intro animation by MBarek Abdelwassaa / mbarek_abdel
Monitor And Keyboard by vadimmihalkevich / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/PgGWp
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:15 Step 1: Design
2:15 Power-on Room
3:22 Validation Lab
5:50 Stability Testing
7:25 Product Platform Validation
8:15 This robot installs CPUs lol
10:10 Outro

Пікірлер: 4 200
@dumpsterdawg
@dumpsterdawg 2 жыл бұрын
Linus: "I would have paid them to take a tour of it" Intel: "We don't accept LTTstore coupons"
@Deleted-Banana
@Deleted-Banana 2 жыл бұрын
Damn, that's a whole ocean evaporation incident.
@PB24C
@PB24C 2 жыл бұрын
Damn. Emotional damage
@64-bit6
@64-bit6 2 жыл бұрын
@@PB24C *throws slipper* EMOTIONAL DAMAGE?!
@renofumi28
@renofumi28 2 жыл бұрын
@@64-bit6 turns out he's visiting intel asia
@MrNeverseeme
@MrNeverseeme 2 жыл бұрын
I would of taken the $ & donated it to a worthy cause.
@darryljack6612
@darryljack6612 2 жыл бұрын
Intel: Gives Linus money just for visiting. Linus: Rips up money Yvonne hundreds of miles away: I sense a disturbance.
@rileyalbu2689
@rileyalbu2689 2 жыл бұрын
This.
@florianplaten6625
@florianplaten6625 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ladioz well the are currently cash flow limited so they need money to expand and buy things like the screwdriver and backpack stock
@OverAndOverAndOver
@OverAndOverAndOver 2 жыл бұрын
LOL
@ItsPikablu
@ItsPikablu 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ladioz yeah, his 'woman' is the Chief Financial Officer at LMG and owns 49% of the entire corporation. It is literally her job to manage the company's finances.
@KingLo
@KingLo 2 жыл бұрын
My guess is they ripped up Intel's check because they knew they could get more from a different sponsor when they say they are going to be touring Intel's lab.
@kaitlynweeks4143
@kaitlynweeks4143 2 жыл бұрын
I remember the video where Linus legitimately asked Intel if he could come to their lab (and that he would pay to go), and now that dream is a reality. Great job on the video guys! What an experience to remember!
@jamesspraeker2558
@jamesspraeker2558 2 жыл бұрын
Yes indeed
@jhkrev3
@jhkrev3 2 жыл бұрын
I watched LTT for 8 years and it made me want to be an engineer. I was super burnt out by the time I was a sophomore but this video reminded me of why I chose this path. Thank you Linus!!
@bavxyzzy
@bavxyzzy 2 жыл бұрын
The first couple years are the hardest, because they don't normally give you enough stuff to learn in your chosen field. The last decade or two schools have gotten more in tune with that and try to bring in more courses from your major earlier, rather than leaving them all for second semester sophomore year. Which hopefully helps. When I went through, it was 100% Math+Physics+Chem+humanities for 1.5 years. NOTHING else. Then we got an "Intro to EE" class second semester sophomore. You just kinda have to slug it out, knowing there's more interesting stuff on the other side.
@helplmchoking
@helplmchoking 2 жыл бұрын
Someone in Intel clearly either started getting it, or already got it and finally has enough clout. *This* is the sort of thing that rebuilds consumer trust and interest in your company, engaging with consumers, showing a face beyond ultra-corporate marketing garbage and showing off more than some slides on a stage. AMD did a great job of this when Ryzen kicked off and, combined with a genuinely great product, it let them leapfrog Intel big time. And, just like we hoped, the sudden competition (and slight embarrassment) seems to be pushing Intel away from relying on marketing and brand reputation for sales and into engineering, transparency and engagement. I really hope the two companies continue in close competition because seeing Intel give a little more backing to the engineers, the nerds, the PR groups and really push things is awesome, much more likely to make consumer sales than squeezing existing buyers for greater margins an slick marketing presentations
@blankblank4949
@blankblank4949 2 жыл бұрын
its funny, at least for me the best pr a cpu brand could have is letting me hear their engineers talk about what they do. You could honestly never serve me a single ad and just let me see the teams nerd out over their work and i would feel better equipped to make a decision than if i read some marketing materials. I think both amd and intel have the opportunity to be a larger part of consumer decisions, through transparency, than they realize.
@RunicRasol
@RunicRasol 2 жыл бұрын
Personally, I feel like the bloody nose AMD gave them finally made them desperate enough to actually start listening to people trying to get them to go in a more customer-facing direction.
@josephjoestar77
@josephjoestar77 2 жыл бұрын
@@blankblank4949 The thing here is that transparency only excites us sweaty tech nerds, which is a very niche group of people. I'm not saying that transparency marketing is a bad thing to do, in fact I hope more of this comes up. But the reality here is that for the average consumers, they don't care, understand, or interested enough about all of the 'Behind The Scene' stuffs and that's also becomes a huge consideration for the PR/Marketing Department
@InlandQuarter
@InlandQuarter 2 жыл бұрын
Pat knows what he’s doing
@wesleyfoster8876
@wesleyfoster8876 2 жыл бұрын
Hey! Foster!
@MrTadizzz
@MrTadizzz 2 жыл бұрын
Once Intels leadership changed I see that they have become much more transparant and allow vlogers in thier facilities. Cool to see Intel moving on the right path.
@dolevlevy7936
@dolevlevy7936 2 жыл бұрын
preety sure thats only the isreal branch that gave him the clear not sure it has anything to do with the global state of intel
@johnsalamii
@johnsalamii 2 жыл бұрын
companies do alot of things to try to reclaim their spot when they get beaten, if amd wouldn't have surpassed intel in some categories, im pretty sure intel wouldn't be what it is today
@erikth1986
@erikth1986 2 жыл бұрын
​@@johnsalamii The sad truth, we would still be rocking quad-cores if ryzen wasn't a success.
@SevenHunnid
@SevenHunnid 2 жыл бұрын
I’m 21 years old & i review weed products on my KZfaq channel as my job lmao. Tryna make it out the hood, these rappers be tryna go back 🧑‍💻🧑‍💻🧑‍🔬🧑‍🔬
@kaidowell3416
@kaidowell3416 2 жыл бұрын
Calling LTT "vloggers" is borderline insulting
@rubindublone5932
@rubindublone5932 2 жыл бұрын
That man at 3:20 can sleep on the couch tonight😂
@oyunfanify
@oyunfanify 2 жыл бұрын
linus:"i ripped the intel's check" also linus: " hi crucial where is my check "
@Kamel419
@Kamel419 2 жыл бұрын
7:45 "these rigs can do all kinds of things that a customer would never do" - as a test architect I can tell you, test scenarios are akin to safety rules. That is to say they are written in blood. If you see a test scenario and think, "weird, wonder why they test that?" someone somewhere probably has a story to tell about that issue they spent sleepless nights trying to fix which lead up to that scenario being created. Sure occasionally we come up with some kinda contrived scenarios on our own based on what we know are potential weaknesses or areas of concern, but the wild ones usually come from wild events that actually took place.
@Budget-Guitar-Show-DM
@Budget-Guitar-Show-DM 2 жыл бұрын
Hey✋📦
@seldoon_nemar
@seldoon_nemar 2 жыл бұрын
they might also be verification channels used only during qc. using locked out or non-valid input combos as test parameters. if a given circuit has bad responses or too much draw or whatever, could be a way to bin chips for example
@zyeborm
@zyeborm 2 жыл бұрын
you forgot to mention you're meant to post about it in a forum, then when you fix it after killing yourself you just write "nvm fixed it" with no clue given as to how :-)
@salmiakki5638
@salmiakki5638 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder what channels the feedback goes to to reach a test architect? Statistics form retail's support tickets? I imagine the bulk of it come from Partner S.I. and big server customers, but can't be it all, especially if we are talking about testing of consumer platform's features
@therodyman700
@therodyman700 2 жыл бұрын
@@ssl3546 You can't have worked on software or firmware issue etc and not have slammed your desk so hard you cut yourself on something.
@Verlisify
@Verlisify 2 жыл бұрын
I can only imagine how long it took for the PR team to go over every pixel in every frame of this video to make sure everything was blurred
@KalebSDay
@KalebSDay 2 жыл бұрын
The other tour had way more blurring haha, this was nothing compared to that.
@Thatguy-tm8xh
@Thatguy-tm8xh 2 жыл бұрын
please leave verlisify :)
@chanhjohnnguyen1867
@chanhjohnnguyen1867 2 жыл бұрын
Begone, check mark KZfaq account
@__lasevix_
@__lasevix_ 2 жыл бұрын
@@chanhjohnnguyen1867 them being kinda popular doesn't mean they ain't people too bruh
@Genusbou25
@Genusbou25 2 жыл бұрын
props to the PR team they deserves more love
@MayuFuji
@MayuFuji 2 жыл бұрын
He's working more than 24 hours a day, he's literally bending spacetime to work more hours per day than currently exists, this man's dedication is astounding!
@rafinha7081
@rafinha7081 2 жыл бұрын
Is not something to be proud of. He's literally giving all the time he has to a company. No family, no relationships, no friends, no a second of free time. How do you see that as something awesome?
@stephenminshall3484
@stephenminshall3484 2 жыл бұрын
@@rafinha7081 Perhaps reread the comment. I think you may have misinterpreted it. Defying physics by working more than 24 hours in a 24 hour day is clearly astounding (because it is not possible). I don’t think they are saying anything about working long hours being awesome.
@yomomma9513
@yomomma9513 Жыл бұрын
I wonder if israelis have exagerated about anything else? after all there are girls that cry rape but later on it turns out they lied.
@hadartoledeno8842
@hadartoledeno8842 2 жыл бұрын
Make a full Israel high tech tour! The country is full of it!
@slippydouglas
@slippydouglas 2 жыл бұрын
So now we finally know why Intel has had some notorious release and exploit issues in recent years- when your team is cramming more than 24 hours into a day, you’re going to end up with clock timing issues.
@cameralife8
@cameralife8 2 жыл бұрын
THIS COMMENT IS UNDERATED xD
@JmKrokY
@JmKrokY 2 жыл бұрын
Bruhh
@czeslawpi
@czeslawpi 2 жыл бұрын
LOL
@drewba7741
@drewba7741 2 жыл бұрын
Nice
@MarioMastr
@MarioMastr 2 жыл бұрын
😂
@JMUDoc
@JMUDoc 2 жыл бұрын
Linus: "I ripped up the sponsor's cheque!" Employees: "Thanks, boss."
@snowworm4601
@snowworm4601 2 жыл бұрын
They even have to edit the video of him talking about it lol
@SmilerOnline
@SmilerOnline 2 жыл бұрын
He wouldn't really rip up a sponsors cheque, this is just an act, hence he calls it 'Check' to avoid legal issues. ;)
@soljafon
@soljafon 2 жыл бұрын
@@SmilerOnline you can't just make legal loopholes up, a cheque is a check, just like a meter is a metre.
@SmilerOnline
@SmilerOnline 2 жыл бұрын
@@soljafon Calm down kid, I was joking, hence the ;)
@bobmarley2140
@bobmarley2140 2 жыл бұрын
@@SmilerOnline Of course he wouldn't
@AgentOrange96
@AgentOrange96 2 жыл бұрын
I work on AMD's equivalent to Product Platform Validation (we call it System Level Testing) for Ryzen desktop. So it's really fascinating to see how team blue does things and to see what's similar and what's different! There is definitely a healthy mix of both.
@somebonehead
@somebonehead 2 жыл бұрын
7:22 for when Linus discusses PPV.
@GamingGeek
@GamingGeek 2 жыл бұрын
Intel's factory's are so freaking cool. When I was 12 years old, my class went on a trip to Intel's largest manufacturing plant outside the US (since it is only a 10 minute walk away from the school lol) and got given a tour around it and it was so fun and amazing to see the things that happened there
@a1qcaguy
@a1qcaguy 2 жыл бұрын
I took an airplane ride with a chip developer. The kind of guy that develops chips that we won't see 4 to 6 years. This guy's brain was on a level that I've never seen before or since. Thank you Linus Media Group for putting this together for us viewers
@MaddieGraffeo
@MaddieGraffeo 2 жыл бұрын
I have one of those types that worked for Apple in my family. Such a blast to talk to even though I feel like a complete idiot around him. He is a fantastic guy.
@AIRFORCEFREAK1
@AIRFORCEFREAK1 2 жыл бұрын
Chip design is black magic. I am a monkey compared to people that understand that stuff.
@manh2704
@manh2704 Жыл бұрын
You can do that type of thing work too if that interests you. There’s nothing special about him than you guys, hell you guys can go beyond that if you try. He’s one of us. You guys got this
@PegasusTenma1
@PegasusTenma1 Жыл бұрын
Is also what I thought when I met such a person….until I decided to take up this field of study and eventually become a FPGA engineer, my brain is now “ahead” of that person who I thought, at one point, was some kind of genie. Point is, almost everyone can do it if you want it badly enough
@phatoume227
@phatoume227 2 жыл бұрын
This makes me wonder: what did Intel's manufacturing facility look like back on the last 90's-late 2000's. Did they have 20 Crt's stacked on a wall?
@tachobrenner
@tachobrenner 2 жыл бұрын
You bet.
@G4rg0yl3z
@G4rg0yl3z 2 жыл бұрын
Let's see, frequency would range between 60 and 85hz, resolution between 640x480 to 1280x1024, so not that many variants
@antoniocesarscartezzini
@antoniocesarscartezzini 2 жыл бұрын
I dont know intel, but microsoft in the 90's basically had rooms and rooms with hundreds of computers (cpu+crt montior +kb) to stress test new windows versions. pretty cool to see
@nabicx
@nabicx 2 жыл бұрын
@@G4rg0yl3z you know crt's managed way better resolutions than that
@m80116
@m80116 2 жыл бұрын
@Tearjerker probably yes. Back then it was cutting edge, now it's cutting loaves...
@Cardroid
@Cardroid 2 жыл бұрын
These series at Intel Fab is awesome.. hope we get so much more content from these fab visits! Thx Intel and Linus!
@justinalotjb
@justinalotjb 2 жыл бұрын
Once again Linus you have made the content that I want to see, really pleased for you to have such an opportunity to do something like this. Keep the great content coming. Thanks for running such a great channel.
@HugoParedes
@HugoParedes 2 жыл бұрын
Intel is really ahead of it’s time: their employees manage to work more than 24 hours per day!
@XTR_NEELAN
@XTR_NEELAN 2 жыл бұрын
He is traced backed to Asia
@Devin1364
@Devin1364 2 жыл бұрын
you do know they probably don't speak English as their first language. Why be mean about it man?
@damustermann
@damustermann 2 жыл бұрын
And they run on 45°C body temperature. As we see on their CPUs, more heat is better.
@skysight1553
@skysight1553 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe he works in a plane and it always travels toward west so while he work for 28 hours on flight the actual time on where he is at is still 20 hours
@juzujuzu4555
@juzujuzu4555 2 жыл бұрын
It's the Pentium calculation bug again. He meant more than 2.4 hours a day =)
@uood5
@uood5 2 жыл бұрын
The fact that this is, by far, the most interesting LTT video in terms of actual tech journalism, and it's only 10 minutes long is a crime. This needs to be at least 4 times longer and so much more in depth.
@Dan-Simms
@Dan-Simms 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed, I wish it was at least 2x longer to be more in-depth.
@Watchandlearn91
@Watchandlearn91 2 жыл бұрын
Have you seen the one where he tours the Fab? I found that one to be by far the most interesting LTT video in terms of content. This one was very short to be a follow up but I do think there is more content coming around it like he said - this video is just an overview.
@valterc
@valterc 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed! Video about how much storage each LTT employee has: 20 minutes Super interesting video touring Intel labs: rushing 10 minutes WTF
@moistpotatoe5277
@moistpotatoe5277 2 жыл бұрын
he said there was more coming, this is just the appetizer ;)
@royk7712
@royk7712 2 жыл бұрын
i think 15-20 mnt is enough. Too deep will reveal intel internal secret. Also its for general population
@WarriorsPhoto
@WarriorsPhoto 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, how amazing to see this. Thank you sir. I am excited for your next video about this lab.
@BloodyIron
@BloodyIron 2 жыл бұрын
These facility tours you've been doing for years are seriously lit fam. I love em!
@f-newstd9800
@f-newstd9800 2 жыл бұрын
You have been randomly chosen as a lucky winner to win our package Congrats 🎉🎊
@ParagonWave
@ParagonWave 2 жыл бұрын
It gives me hope that Linus can still make videos that excite him this far along in his career.
@meangreen99
@meangreen99 2 жыл бұрын
You know actors act right? Linus would probably be a decent actor. He’s a performer.
@ParagonWave
@ParagonWave 2 жыл бұрын
@@meangreen99 so you see no difference between the energy of this video compared to the 19,000th laptop review. Why so aggressive in your comment, Wasteman
@Ashtor1337
@Ashtor1337 2 жыл бұрын
@@meangreen99 , or he genuinely loves tech. I have been involved in the industry for over 2 decades and still get excited when I see new tech. Just watching the video put a smile on my face. It's would be amazing to get to take this tour and be able to directly speak to these people. It's one thing to understand something it's another to see it first hand.
@natesilvers2166
@natesilvers2166 2 жыл бұрын
Career? Lol
@allsides5626
@allsides5626 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ashtor1337 you get us truly. I am always excited with the techs and love talking about them. Linus has that enthusiasm as he gets to see more products, he really isn't acting about being excited. It's just very natural to be excited over the cutting edge technology that is still been made. That's why tech reviewers always get consistent views. But what always baffles me is that, Linus is almost 40. He is nearly a boomer while still excited about new technology!
@nemtudom5074
@nemtudom5074 2 жыл бұрын
3:18 Well someone's sleeping on the couch, lol
@fairyball3929
@fairyball3929 2 жыл бұрын
The mic audio was sooo loud lol
@nusermane1076
@nusermane1076 2 жыл бұрын
Incredible tour, thank you for that video!!!! From my POV you can do at least 5 additional episodes, just about how all this works 😍😍😍
@Xavierpng
@Xavierpng 2 жыл бұрын
I’m an intel employee and I learn more from Linus these days than any internal forums
@im_a-walking_shitpost_machine
@im_a-walking_shitpost_machine 2 жыл бұрын
you dont work for intel lol
@zhongxina9646
@zhongxina9646 2 жыл бұрын
@@im_a-walking_shitpost_machine r/woooshh
@haongwong
@haongwong 2 жыл бұрын
this is so true coming from an ex employee perspectives 😉
@vedaryan334
@vedaryan334 2 жыл бұрын
Lmao
@dom_the3166
@dom_the3166 2 жыл бұрын
Go away bot
@ensuredchaos8098
@ensuredchaos8098 2 жыл бұрын
It's actually insane how much industrial equipment it needed to make something as small as a CPU, makes you appreciate the thought process behind the whole thing.
@juliancumming6893
@juliancumming6893 2 жыл бұрын
Well they aren’t making just one, you aren’t gonna make tens of millions in a small factory just like almost every mass produced processed food it takes several buildings of big and expensive equipment
@iamajay3333
@iamajay3333 2 жыл бұрын
Semiconductors man gotta love them
@dioneto6855
@dioneto6855 2 жыл бұрын
it's because it is so small that you need so much machinery, the first computers took multiple rooms of space and a simple calculator nowadays can outperform them by hundreds of magnitude
@Josephkerr101
@Josephkerr101 2 жыл бұрын
It makes me fear how far back another bronze age collapse scenario would send us.
@TalesOfWar
@TalesOfWar 2 жыл бұрын
@@dioneto6855 A digital watch from the early 90's had more computing power than the super computers that put the first man on the Moon. It's crazy to think just how fast some things advance. If only we kept on the same path of progress with space travel lol.
@rppdfire
@rppdfire 2 жыл бұрын
What Linus said: "I ripped up my sponsor's check" What Linus thought: "Direct deposit is much more convenient"
@dangermouse8640
@dangermouse8640 2 жыл бұрын
linus tears up the cheque - “ you are going to have to pay a lot more money for this”
@tihomirrasperic
@tihomirrasperic 2 жыл бұрын
next video Intel drove Linus into bankruptcy, Linus did not have enough money to pay for a visit to the Intel Center
@El-Burrito
@El-Burrito 2 жыл бұрын
Seriously who still uses checks!
@weak1blaster
@weak1blaster 2 жыл бұрын
He did rip up the check, after cashing it on his mobile banking app.
@helmutkrahn9337
@helmutkrahn9337 2 жыл бұрын
@@El-Burrito The same country that still uses Imperial measurement!
@jacklewis100
@jacklewis100 2 жыл бұрын
3:09: "I worked more than 24 hours a day..." That was calculated on the new 12th Gen processor....
@Wild_Productions
@Wild_Productions 2 жыл бұрын
This really deserves a unedited raw version we can watch, just blur what needs to be blured but I could watch this for an hour or more linus, please. ❤️
@Jimmy_Jones
@Jimmy_Jones 2 жыл бұрын
Linus: starting to struggle with money to do with backpacks, screwdrivers and lab 2. Also Linus: I ripped up a check from Intel.
@Jimmy_Jones
@Jimmy_Jones 2 жыл бұрын
@@nedflanders4158 I know. But that's what he makes it out to be on WAN.
@CodeMonkeX
@CodeMonkeX 2 жыл бұрын
@@Jimmy_Jones he said they do not have cash a ton of cash on hand. That's very different than struggling. They have tons of money, it's just tied up in projects that will probably have a massive return in a year or so.
@memethief4113
@memethief4113 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt he actually ripped up a check / denied the money, that’s probably just for entertainment
@ALEXGIBSONCMG
@ALEXGIBSONCMG 2 жыл бұрын
@@CodeMonkeX he reinvests nearly all the money he makes back into LMG, he has the same business mentality as Elon, and that's a good thing, life isn't about the number in your bank account.
@untzuntz3000
@untzuntz3000 2 жыл бұрын
@@Jimmy_Jones not having money and being tight on cashflow are two very different things.
@simoncox9349
@simoncox9349 2 жыл бұрын
Linus: "I would have paid for the tour" Intel: "We'll settle for some of them sweet desk pads"
@davescomputercorner6015
@davescomputercorner6015 2 жыл бұрын
Give it a rest. Not everything has to be in meme format.
@simoncox9349
@simoncox9349 2 жыл бұрын
@@davescomputercorner6015 give me 9 good reasons and then ill reconsider my point of view
@davescomputercorner6015
@davescomputercorner6015 2 жыл бұрын
@@simoncox9349 Me: It's not about point of view Also me: this format of commenting is cringe.
@simoncox9349
@simoncox9349 2 жыл бұрын
@@davescomputercorner6015 I accept my flaws for what they are and will reconsider your request
@idobaliti688
@idobaliti688 2 жыл бұрын
This place is literaly 15 minutes from my home. And linus is there
@tuxediomafia
@tuxediomafia 2 жыл бұрын
It's awesome seeing you get excited and let your geek get its freak on. I look forward to the other video!!! thanks for showing us btw!!
@ZexMaxwell
@ZexMaxwell 2 жыл бұрын
dude. this video got me so pumped to see technology being made. I felt disappointed that the video had to end. can't wait to see the next video that you are making!
@theunkownviolinist
@theunkownviolinist 2 жыл бұрын
That clip of all the engineers huddled around that screen and cheering that the PC powers on brings a huge smile to my face because I'm a computer engineering student and it's such a beautiful moment when something your team worked so hard on actually works after what feels like an eternity of prototyping and testing. I'm so glad that moments like that aren't lost in such a high level professional setting.
@Kevin-fl7mj
@Kevin-fl7mj 2 жыл бұрын
This is PR dont get your hopes up to see this besides on KZfaq.
@RealHumanDave
@RealHumanDave 2 жыл бұрын
@@Kevin-fl7mj I mean, I've seen and been apart of it when we get a satellite into orbit; pretty much every step of the way....
@janhavel8208
@janhavel8208 2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of SpaceX back before COVID, when the employees gathered to watch the launches.
@GabrielHernandez-br5qk
@GabrielHernandez-br5qk 2 жыл бұрын
@@Kevin-fl7mj I’m a Xeon PDE at Intel and I can tell you we do celebrate a Power On, And we also get trophies or different commemorative items after we enter production with a new chip family
@forceofone
@forceofone 2 жыл бұрын
@@Kevin-fl7mj bet you're fun at parties..
@dossphosmedia
@dossphosmedia 2 жыл бұрын
Man i so wish this was more in depth. This is by far the best video LMG has done in a LONG time. The level of passion comes through so clearly. As someone how has been watching for a long time I love seeing Linus getting so excited.
@tacticalhobbit1685
@tacticalhobbit1685 2 жыл бұрын
this is one of the best videos I have seen on youtube and I've always loved the technology but it has never been in 4k before. I love this and there need to be more actual engineers talking to people about it not a pr team that don't know what they are talking about I love what they are doing with going to diforent fabs and filming it and showing how it works, I get that there is a small audience that gets giddy for the next chipset coming out but I love the content coming out and I love how acualy helpful it is for me working in IT.
@Nereosis16
@Nereosis16 2 жыл бұрын
Linus: "I tore up my sponsorship cheque" Also Linus: "Let me tell you about today's sponsor!"
@curtisss
@curtisss 2 жыл бұрын
I had a core 2 duo for years, that machine was absolutely bulletproof and while I saved for an upgrade I put a core2quad in there and it lasted an extra 2 years. God I miss those days, PC gaming was so much cheaper
@emma70707
@emma70707 2 жыл бұрын
Have you adjusted for inflation? Computers and components have gotten cheaper in today's dollars until very recently, from what I understand. For example, your Core 2 Duo would cost $230-745 (assuming non extreme) in today's dollars and you can get a much better 12th gen chip for $110-530.
@madgodzilla12465
@madgodzilla12465 2 жыл бұрын
I think the main thing nowadays is people want to upgrade early/overspend beyond their needs. PC hardware is almost back to pre pandemic prices. Not to mention when RDNA2 APU's arrive in the desktop space getting into PC gaming will be stupid cheap.
@casedistorted
@casedistorted 2 жыл бұрын
I do too my core 2 duo was awesome, then the Intel i7’s came out and I couldn’t afford anything
@itchylol742
@itchylol742 2 жыл бұрын
it's still cheap, just play older games or turn down the graphics
@marcelmathes
@marcelmathes 2 жыл бұрын
Hmm, little bit tricky in my opinion. 2 cores lastet a long time because intel said so or because of a weak amd performance over all those years. With every year that passed, the consumer base grew and grew and 2 cores (or later 4) were the norm. Computer gaming will never be as cheap as 10 years ago but it won't be double or triple either. The prices are all over the place right now, but a 6 core cpu on a midtier motherboard and 16GB of fast ddr4 will last you years and years into the future.
@tomtreacy1545
@tomtreacy1545 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent - looking forward to the follow-up
@DiamondRB
@DiamondRB 2 жыл бұрын
6:31 That drop... He/She dropped the CPU. Just seeing the fact that they are used to it so much that they know it wont break if you drop it a little bit is amazing.. I wouldn't ever dare to handle a CPU like that.. Think of a super fragile egg? That is how i handle CPUs..
@teardowndan5364
@teardowndan5364 2 жыл бұрын
Having CPUs that can go to sleep while still outputting video could be handy for display walls, digital signage and other applications where the CPU only needs to run to update whatever is being displayed. There is no point in wasting 30W running the whole platform continuously when it only needs to update outputs once every 10+ seconds. They may also be testing panels with self-refresh capability where there is actually no HDMI/DP signal, just the IGP telling the monitor to go into self-refresh mode before going to sleep.
@zyeborm
@zyeborm 2 жыл бұрын
tbf the current draw at idle for the CPU is going to be pretty darn low anyway in that instance. The other thing you'd need to do is have some way to wake it internally. I get what you're saying but something like the NUC11PAQi7 pulls 6w at idle for the whole system, even if you sleep the CPU cores all the way rather than idle you'll still need to keep the memory refresh running, chipset, all of that stuff. Not saying you're wrong there BTW, just saying that particular application doesn't seem like a killer application for that ability.
@teardowndan5364
@teardowndan5364 2 жыл бұрын
@@zyeborm Digital signage can have a mix of video, static images, procedural content, etc. that requires more processing power than a 6W NUC can deliver. As for waking up, that is what wake timers are for and Windows will use those to update at whatever ungodly time of the night it deems appropriate to do updates if you don't prevent it from doing so.
@bingbing3464
@bingbing3464 2 жыл бұрын
If you're talking about intel then this is pretty much the norm on their C states. I have one rig specifically made for displaying a live chart idling around 10W.. AMD meanwhile will idle at over 40w lmao.
@teardowndan5364
@teardowndan5364 2 жыл бұрын
@@bingbing3464 With a self-refreshing display, you can idle at sub-1W total system power measured at the AC input since the whole system is in standby, not just the CPU. Only needs enough power for DRAM self-refresh and always-on USB peripherals if any.
@bingbing3464
@bingbing3464 2 жыл бұрын
@@teardowndan5364 well if you want it as a static image that refreshes then it's totally pointless to use any cpu running on a general purpose OS like windows. There are purpose built hardware for it. What I have here is a rig that is refreshing the screen at 75hz, internet connectivity for collecting data to display with audio notifications for 30w from the plug.
@Dinkleberg96
@Dinkleberg96 2 жыл бұрын
Expensive fact: that scope "black box" at 6:40 costs about 1/4 of a million dollars US each
@tobimai4843
@tobimai4843 2 жыл бұрын
Yea I also thought thats probably a few cars worth of scope sitting there
@dartnuss
@dartnuss 2 жыл бұрын
Do you know what it is doing exactly?
@royk7712
@royk7712 2 жыл бұрын
@@dartnuss its just an oscilloscope. High end one
@toobigtofit3584
@toobigtofit3584 2 жыл бұрын
That's not even the most expensive scope they sell either. The most expensive one they'll list on their website is like 500K, I think once you go above that it's a "contact us" kind of situation. Keysight makes good stuff, I really like the DSOX3000T I have at work.
@Dinkleberg96
@Dinkleberg96 2 жыл бұрын
@@toobigtofit3584 i never said it was the most expensive one. 2nd good for u have fun with it LMAO
@kriswingert1662
@kriswingert1662 2 жыл бұрын
Linus, having the on-chip video output while having the CPU asleep validates that the onboard video works.
@f-newstd9800
@f-newstd9800 2 жыл бұрын
You have been randomly chosen as a lucky winner to win our package Congrats 🎉🎊
@IxXDOMINATORXxI
@IxXDOMINATORXxI 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video man so cool to see stuff like this
@LinearCarp1209
@LinearCarp1209 2 жыл бұрын
Does any other "tech review" do things like this? The variety of what's covered, and the people, is why I like LTT so much. Honestly Linus, you and all your companions have created a legacy
@Andernerd
@Andernerd 2 жыл бұрын
Gamers Nexus has done some cool factory tours in the past.
@singlsrvngfrnd
@singlsrvngfrnd 2 жыл бұрын
@@Galf506 what area are you referring to?
@mahdi9064
@mahdi9064 2 жыл бұрын
@@singlsrvngfrnd i think he means he is wasting a hole video talking about one component like 1 cpu or 1 gpu entering exessive detail on it , not like linus with his random yet entertaining content
@uncooked_ham
@uncooked_ham 2 жыл бұрын
I think Dogfart did it once, check them out.
@dakrawnik4208
@dakrawnik4208 2 жыл бұрын
You don't just go to these companies and say, hey, can i film a video in here? lol
@BobSentell
@BobSentell 2 жыл бұрын
"I ripped up my sponsor's check." Because Crucial wrote a bigger one...
@TheJPspike
@TheJPspike 2 жыл бұрын
As a silicone test engineer myself (for a much smaller company than Intel) I find this fascinating. I can understand much of what they are doing and have deeper knowledge than what Linus can fit into a ten minute vid, but I'm still blown away by the scale of the testing that has to be done at Intel. It's quite incredible!
@grozaphy
@grozaphy 2 жыл бұрын
you test phone cases?
@supertaco22
@supertaco22 2 жыл бұрын
@7:55 some cpus in laptops that still have DVD drives. can boot into DVD player mode where the OS doesnt turn on at all. just plays DVDs for drastic increased battery life. probably for this feature.
@joekenorer
@joekenorer 2 жыл бұрын
10 minutes? I assumed there would be enough content for a couple 30 minute videos. Intel is doing good for themselves by allowing you and others to do vlogs, it's encouraging to see a team of people rather than just lame corporate promo/adverts we're normally left to roll our eyes at. Great job, can't wait to see more.
@KPalmTheWise
@KPalmTheWise 2 жыл бұрын
A lot of their current stuff is being done in Oregon, fundamentally there aren't too many steps in the process to talk about
@disturbeddemons1
@disturbeddemons1 2 жыл бұрын
He did say there's a deep dive video in the works.
@Noctuloquor
@Noctuloquor 2 жыл бұрын
Do they have a robot that simulates a KZfaq tech reviewer dropping the CPU while trying to install it?
@elvistsang832
@elvistsang832 2 жыл бұрын
No, that's why they invited Linus for this task.
@jort93z
@jort93z 2 жыл бұрын
This might be my favorite video on this channel, not even kidding.
@steveslater7885
@steveslater7885 2 жыл бұрын
So F'kin cool Linus. -- Can't wait for the deep dive.
@GameTimeWhy
@GameTimeWhy 2 жыл бұрын
Linus- "so I ripped up the sponsor cheque" Ltt accounting team- "you did what?!" Linus- "yeah I even said I would pay them instead!" Ltt accounting team-"..."
@flyingtentacle7631
@flyingtentacle7631 2 жыл бұрын
Crucial: "wtf"
@grozaphy
@grozaphy 2 жыл бұрын
crucial and nzxt: I've got your back
@terran2kk
@terran2kk 2 жыл бұрын
He ripped it up after he desposted it of course, so he's not lying, but lying at the same time.
@grantpeterson2524
@grantpeterson2524 2 жыл бұрын
I'm so happy Pat took the reigns. I love it when engineers get to make the decisions.
@robertpearson8546
@robertpearson8546 2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you finally got to see a front end (especially one done right vs. TI). But I would like to see tunnel diode threshold logic CPU and GPUs. 1000 times the speed as 1% the power.
@Stabruder
@Stabruder 2 жыл бұрын
3:08 Now THATS WHAT I CALL PASSION 😂
@CumFuck
@CumFuck 2 жыл бұрын
I work as an engineer for a very small research and development branch of a water testing company. I can’t Imagine being apart of such a high scale operation. The 12 of us at my branch are frantically testing and rolling out firmware updates daily for our product launch. The pressure and pace must be insane at that Intel facility. Thank you for the tour Linus!
@mewthree4253
@mewthree4253 2 жыл бұрын
I can confirm as someone who works in the labs. It's chaos. People stealing each other mice, laptop chargers, and whole monitors lmao bc there is just so much equipment laying around. There's a ton of time crunches and item tracking going on.
@JoshCMinecraft
@JoshCMinecraft 2 жыл бұрын
Definitely this video for the nebula laser projector!!
@f-newstd9800
@f-newstd9800 2 жыл бұрын
You have been randomly chosen as a lucky winner to win our package Congrats 🎉🎊
@jose-lael
@jose-lael 2 жыл бұрын
This is super cool. I work at Intel in Pre-Silicon and I didn't know about all the stuff that happens after!
@slukasser
@slukasser 2 жыл бұрын
The best thing of the lab tour was the Keysight scope, costs about as much as your house
@jakobwest4811
@jakobwest4811 2 жыл бұрын
This is really cool. I do semi conductor design for cellphones that is really similar. Very cool to see what one of the biggest companies in the Biz is doing.
@akillersquirrel5880
@akillersquirrel5880 2 жыл бұрын
It's neat. I helped remotely support bringup on the Centriq processors, back when those were briefly a thing. Interesting to see how much of the culture around bringup is pretty similar across the industry.
@hofas69
@hofas69 2 жыл бұрын
I liked the depth of field blur in this video
@Davethreshold
@Davethreshold 2 жыл бұрын
CONGRATULATIONS Linus! You outdid yourself. FASCINATING. ❤
@DaSmik101
@DaSmik101 2 жыл бұрын
The oscilloscope @6:39 is worth about $1.3 million. It's a Keysight Infiniium UXR series. 110GHz oscilloscope. Flagship beast. There's only a handful of them in the world.
@ccoder4953
@ccoder4953 2 жыл бұрын
People like Intel and high end science teams are about the only people that have both the need and the budget for beasts like that. Thing about scopes like that is you actually need highly specialized knowledge to use them and get good measurements. Probes on a scope like that are almost as expensive and magical as the scope itself. Using them correctly is basically a black art. Even the scope itself is usually a bit of an odd beast to use. Linus should ask Keysight if he can get a tour of their facility. One of their reps Daniel Bogdanoff is pretty active in the KZfaq community and would probably love to show off their Colorado Springs facility where those things are designed.
@netnael.m
@netnael.m 2 жыл бұрын
Oh boy I need one of those 🤩 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
@The-One-and-Only
@The-One-and-Only 2 жыл бұрын
this is pure commitment and deserve my unconditional respect. just don’t apologize to Tim Sweeney again.
@Glade4
@Glade4 2 жыл бұрын
pure commitment and literally showing that employees are overworked and crunching, guy literally admits hes staying 24h just to finish his job and people are praising it lol, btw its not okay for people that need to hear this
@The-One-and-Only
@The-One-and-Only 2 жыл бұрын
@@Glade4 I was referring to Linus.
@Kubulek17
@Kubulek17 2 жыл бұрын
@@Glade4 “we’re just like family” companies are bullshit, maybe a toxic abusive family
@iris4547
@iris4547 2 жыл бұрын
@@Glade4 they never said the employee was forced to be there for 24 hours. maybe the guy loves the job and the work he is doing. intel probably supported his decision to work over time with a healthy pay package.
@The-One-and-Only
@The-One-and-Only 2 жыл бұрын
@Christopher he wears glasses
@vladislavkaras491
@vladislavkaras491 2 жыл бұрын
It was interesting to watch. Thank you!
@michaelwalker2426
@michaelwalker2426 2 жыл бұрын
I wish this video was longer, so interesting !
@DJSeanE
@DJSeanE 2 жыл бұрын
I'm from the old school. My first use of an Intel CPU was the ancient 386. Now, my fastest Intel CPU is the i7-9700. It's been a wild ride from the early days until now.
@donc-m4900
@donc-m4900 2 жыл бұрын
DX or SX?
@DJSeanE
@DJSeanE 2 жыл бұрын
@@donc-m4900 I believe it was the 80386SX CPU.
@spankbuda5760
@spankbuda5760 2 жыл бұрын
My first PC build was a Intel Pentium II Slot 1 Processor and now I have the i9 12900K. Damn I'm old!
@donc-m4900
@donc-m4900 2 жыл бұрын
@@spankbuda5760 old? My first computer was an Apple IIe. no hard drive. no gpu. but upgraded to 128k of memory and dual 5 1/4 floppies. (So i didn't need to use a typewriter for school reports)
@blaziken38
@blaziken38 2 жыл бұрын
would like to see a longer version of this
@dorsetengineering
@dorsetengineering 2 жыл бұрын
What’s pretty cool to think about is the fact that in Cambridge, in the late 80’s Sophie Wilson and the team were going through exactly the same process of design, simulation, validation, testing for their new arm architecture. With a large chunk of help and tools from VLSI of course…
@navneethramesh7422
@navneethramesh7422 2 жыл бұрын
Linus looks like a kid who flew to the other side of the hemisphere to one of the biggest candy stores. I love it
@PabzRoz
@PabzRoz 2 жыл бұрын
If you have the KZfaq comment search extension and search "AMD" on this video you will seriously cringe reading the comments... lol
@RythmicRaindrops
@RythmicRaindrops 2 жыл бұрын
I am so excited for this series!!!!!
@wesleymercer4536
@wesleymercer4536 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, this is insane. This video should definitely be longer.
@Dangineering
@Dangineering 2 жыл бұрын
I think this is the type of content that I expected when I subscribed all those years ago and everything else we have gotten instead has been nothing but icing on the top
@marty5300
@marty5300 2 жыл бұрын
It's cool to see the inner workings of a behemoth like Intel. The amount of work that goes into one chip is amazing, and they're nonstop developing and testing. Its crazy that everything just works as expected.
@Mr.BobsDog
@Mr.BobsDog Жыл бұрын
8:06 Vader approves processor output 7:52 Linus you’re testing Vader’s patience
@GameBoothUK
@GameBoothUK 2 жыл бұрын
Ripped up the Intel sponsor check and just got another for the video instead. Well played. Loved this video, thanks Linus!
@vapp13
@vapp13 2 жыл бұрын
That Vader sticker on the VDR machine, glad to know the engineering team at Intel has a great sense of humour. 8:03
@ricky2629
@ricky2629 2 жыл бұрын
I am honestly suprised that the first real boot was on windows. Would have expected it to be a custom modified linux distro
@conormurphy4328
@conormurphy4328 2 жыл бұрын
Tells you all you need to know about people who use Linux if even the intel factory doesn’t drive it
@shaggiel3099
@shaggiel3099 2 жыл бұрын
@@conormurphy4328 no?
@amirpourghoureiyan1637
@amirpourghoureiyan1637 2 жыл бұрын
@@conormurphy4328 Intel has their own high-end Linux build (Clear Linux), these factory programs are decades old and are used for familiarity alone.
@samuelhokanson7560
@samuelhokanson7560 2 жыл бұрын
NEVER SAID THIS BEFORE BUT THIS IS THE BEST THUMBNAIL/TITLE/INTRO IVE EVER SEEN!!! I dont know what it was but it shocked me
@FightTalkMMA
@FightTalkMMA 2 жыл бұрын
Editing was brutal in the beginning
@rawr4444
@rawr4444 2 жыл бұрын
3:13 Gee, thanks a lot, dad...!
@emanuelperez3595
@emanuelperez3595 2 жыл бұрын
Love this mini series keep it up. Love seeing you geek out like a little kid💜
@Chris-gh2tv
@Chris-gh2tv 2 жыл бұрын
This was a super cool video. Good work.
@EricYoungVFX
@EricYoungVFX 2 жыл бұрын
Linus 2015: "we don't take sponsorship dollars" Linus 2022: "I rIpPEd mY SpoNSorShiP ChEk"
@notawfulstudio5413
@notawfulstudio5413 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Linus! I have a proposition for you. I have a working Macintosh 512k from 1985 with Mac Write, Mac Paint, Microsoft Word 1.0, and Microsoft Charts (I also have all the original user manuals). This Macintosh is my little piece of personal computing history, and it's insanely cool. I believe we, the viewers, would love to see your reaction to what is essentially the original Macintosh (the only difference between the OG Macintosh 128k and 512k is the extra amount of RAM). You are more than welcomed to take the Mac apart, and you can even turn it into a sleeper PC if you wanted. I know everything there is to know about the Macintosh and would love to share more with you. The Macintosh, keyboard, and mouse still work great; the only part in need of repair is the floppy disk drive motor that ejects the floppy disks. I have wanted to repair it myself, but finding replacement parts from 1985 is challenging. However, there is a manual eject release mechanism on the front of the Mac, which makes swapping floppy disks extremely easy. As for my offer, I will trade you everything I mentioned in exchange for a graphics card and a signed LTT screwdriver. I love LMG and everything it stands for in the world of tech. I have been watching LTT since 2013, and I always attribute my knowledge to you, Linus, and the team at LMG. Life hasn’t always been easy as nerd and it can be incredibly lonely and depressing some days, but having your content makes the world feel a little less small and closed off. Regardless of whether you are interested, I want to sincerely thank you and the team at LMG for teaching me everything I know about technology. I am profoundly grateful for your content and will always be a lifelong nerd and LTT fanboy! If you are interested, I can provide you with pictures of everything and a video of the Macintosh working. Thanks, Justin
@Wigglez69
@Wigglez69 2 жыл бұрын
This
@epic_eli2271
@epic_eli2271 2 жыл бұрын
probably should've emailed it to them but i would love to see that as a video
@cronchcrunch
@cronchcrunch 2 жыл бұрын
YES.
@xapu8775
@xapu8775 2 жыл бұрын
I recommend to tweet them that or email it
@Jpulg006
@Jpulg006 2 жыл бұрын
Email him
@willy4177
@willy4177 2 жыл бұрын
As a Quality Specialist this is super exciting, I really wish we could see more of the Quality process
@taelok
@taelok 2 жыл бұрын
Oof, working in the industry, so much of the quality stuff grinds down to the smallest of details, 'how long did the FOUP of wafers sit at this one particular operation', 'what was the atmospheric/barometric pressure at the time of the power spike', and my personal favorite, 'why did it take 4h to do a 20m job?"
@carterwilliams226
@carterwilliams226 2 жыл бұрын
This Video was "Hecka" enoyable. Love it!
@UNBOXBURRITO
@UNBOXBURRITO 2 жыл бұрын
This video ended too early! Can't wait to see more!
@Code_GR
@Code_GR 2 жыл бұрын
Really interesting video, makes me think about how AMD and Nvidia do some of the stuff(specifically the power on part) since they go through TSMC and/or Samsung. I hope Linus can do more videos like this because I plan to go into the field of computer hardware engineering and it would be nice to know a little more about the engineering/manufacturing process of computer systems.
@NorthernLaw_
@NorthernLaw_ 2 жыл бұрын
Wow that facility looks insanely intricate but amazing. As you would expect for Intel. That must be such a cool place to visit, definitely excited for Raptor Lake and Meteor Lake and whatever else the future has in store
@KaiserTom
@KaiserTom 2 жыл бұрын
"Display output while in sleep state" I can see application in when a device is displaying a static image. Just output a buffer and put the CPU to sleep. Saves power. Think electronic signage/menus.
@james2042
@james2042 2 жыл бұрын
LTT: makes the best video they've made in years Linus: "cut out all the details and make it short"
@julianmendez2779
@julianmendez2779 2 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure they cant give out all the details cause these are literally cpu designing area with alot of sensitive data.
@soheibdz8624
@soheibdz8624 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder how many souls had to die and how many houses they had to demolish so they can build that factory, interesting...
@andyshtroymish4997
@andyshtroymish4997 2 жыл бұрын
What houses are you talking about?
@soheibdz8624
@soheibdz8624 2 жыл бұрын
@@andyshtroymish4997 check israel maps between 1946 and now and ask yourself how they could expand that fast
@andyshtroymish4997
@andyshtroymish4997 2 жыл бұрын
@@soheibdz8624 those exact areas were "caravans" sites for Bedouins. There were no demolished houses here in Haifa as almost every single one of abandoned buildings belonged to fleed muslim families and therefore wait to be proclaimed by returned ones(in case aforementioned families survived in Jordan and do not mind living under state of Israel, in which hands those houses are currently) All of the houses ruined by Israel on Palestinian territories are the ones destroyed by automatical anti-missile systems for being shelted by QASSAMs from. Any of those who were destroyed by Israeli "alt-right/terroristic" forces like "Lehi" and even some of self-destroyed by HAMAS were rebuilded by Israeli governmental programs.
@soheibdz8624
@soheibdz8624 2 жыл бұрын
@@andyshtroymish4997 that's not true, that's what the media says ..the number of Palestinians getting kicked from their houses that owned by at least three generations is huge just check sheikh jarrah , israel doesn't really care if u own the place or not all they good at is using any path even if it's killing innocent people to get to their goal even if it's not legally belongs to them
@soquality9405
@soquality9405 2 жыл бұрын
@@andyshtroymish4997 imagine carrying water for these child killers. Just last week they shot a reporter in cold blood. How fucking deluded do you have to be
@theeuropeanlegacy5075
@theeuropeanlegacy5075 2 жыл бұрын
Linus favourite cpu is Core 2 Duo and I'm still using it for decade.
@Tirth-Patel
@Tirth-Patel 2 жыл бұрын
no
@heaththornton3029
@heaththornton3029 2 жыл бұрын
Video just came out and your comment is 20 minutes old 🤔
@Tirth-Patel
@Tirth-Patel 2 жыл бұрын
​@@heaththornton3029 yeah man super strange 🤔🧐🤨😱😱🤢🤮🖕😹😹😯😮💀☠️
@Logilype
@Logilype 2 жыл бұрын
@@heaththornton3029 i find that weird too
@CroneLife1
@CroneLife1 2 жыл бұрын
@@heaththornton3029 , Linus is on the North American continent. The European Legacy obviously is not. (sorry, don't mean to spam; but someone else already asked that.)
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