The real ORM is the friends we made along the way -- Our Real Mates

0:20 (S-Q-L), 0:31 (Squeal), 0:52 (Sequel) He pronounced SQL all three different ways so everyone is happy 😂

I watched this video again to remember the differences between certain libraries and ORMs so I made a list: 1. 1:30 pg 2. 3:24 postgres.js 3. 4:11 knex 4. 5:20 kysely 5. 6:13 sequelize 6. 7:11 typeorm 7. 7:55 prisma 8. 8:51 drizzle-orm May this be helpful to someone else as well.

The timing of this video is impeccable. Been spending the last few days looking into these ORMs

MikroORM should be on this list. Has all the benefits of an ORM, but lets you easily fall back to a Knex-like query builder when needed. And crucially, it's much better maintained than Sequelize or TypeORM

This video is so well timed, I was literally transitioning from Firestore to Postgres database with a project just now.

This guy has the most useful content, without wasting any time.

Awesome job Jeff. Thanks for creating such a concise and entertaining video.

Awesome video! And amazing that you're giving a free consultation, people should flock for that!

I was less inclined to watch this earlier but, hey man, you rocks. Lots of clear and concise stuff in the video.

Breaking world record for most useful information per second of video each time you post someting. Respect, Sir!

Hours of research without real outcome and then one video and I know what to choose. You're my favorite KZfaqr for a reason. 😋

Great video. I'd enjoy an overview of ORMs in other languages too, such as SqlAlchemy, Entity Framework, etc.

Thank you. Perfect timing, that exactly what i'm looking for.

MikroORM is awesome and deserve more love. It does what all these ORM do and is battle tested, fast, and well maintained.

I'm currently using pg + postrgrator for migrations + sql-ts to generate types from DB. Works like charm. Type checking of sql is done by my IDE (intellij) anyway.

I can understand the Web dev community generally straying away from writing raw SQL, but as an analyst moving to Javascript from having written primarily SQL for the past 6yrs it can be a bit frustrating that the whole ecosystem is based on trying not to do what I'm most comfortable doing - it feels like my mad SQL skills are being somewhat nullified! Great vid Jeff, I haven't seen postgres js before - I will defo be using it.

Snuck in a video in response to the codedam issues with Prisma. Like your approach here - mentioning all pros and cons, going over each option. Great work!

Have a lot of projects in production. Some of our codebase accesses MySql, PG and SQLite, so Knex is our definitive tool. Also it handles transactions like a charm.

Thank you man. This is really helpful.

When using pg, run your migrations and then use schemats to dynamically generate typescript types from the db itself for great type safety.

Rails, Django, Laravel, and Phoenix developers: Yay!! We don't have to deal with this JavaScript madness.

Absolutely love intro!!!!

If you need advanced postgresql like views, materialized views, PostGIS I would recommend to use pg, choosing the right ORM depends on your project requirements so you must study first what features you will need and do research for the best of your needs

lol, the ending was perfect :D well done Mr Fireship

Love the ending :)

Man That Ending !!! Super

this is gonna be very useful for my typescript api, living and leaning...

Thank you so much for this was struggling to choose an ORM to use till now

First 20 seconds of this video, the story of my life! :D Great job making these videos fun, so we can all have a bit of a laugh and not take ourselves too seriously, especially when it comes to the technology stack used. I've also made a video on this topic on my channel recently.

sequelize has been my go to for small project for about 5 years.

A video about correct ways to hande migrations for multiple teams would be very handy!

Out of every ORM I've ever used, my favorite experience was using Ecto [Elixir programming language]. Note that this language, and also ORM, have a pretty steep learning curve, so it can seem obtuse at first. Other ORMs I've used include Django, SQL Alchemy, ActiveRecord, and a couple JavaScript ones.

I also like what Supabase did with their new CLI, although not exactly an ORM. It generates typescript types for you based on the tables that you make inside of the dashboard, which you use with the SDK to make safe queries. One of the easiest ways to get a great DX with SQL in my opinion.

bests one mentioned at 9:45 ~ saved you some time !

in my opinion they are all good options and I would just look at what saves me the most time and works good with typescript. So I usually go with prisma :) Having said that if you are just a beginner you might wanna go with the orm's that you have to use raw SQL so you know how everything works.

I love the "Data Suppository". :D

I prefer writing raw sql queries. Orm tend to make simple things simpler and hard things harder

Hey there fireship, sequelize doesn't support typescript but there's a new sequelize-typescript that does, it would've been nice if you did that.

The first 20 seconds are the most accurate stuff ever. I start with MSSQL and then switched to MongoDB and I was like "Yeah this is the best, I will never go back to sql" yeah but ... years later I'm now working only with MySql and I like it way more then mongo ... Currently using sequelize and the work is so easy to do.

For Postgres PgTyped is an awesome project. You write bare SQL and it typeschecks agains the databse and generates query methods that are comletely typesafe, even with complex joins or recursive queries.

Drizzle for the next Project.

The two reasons to use an ORM such as Prisma and TypeORM is so you get types for your code and so you don't have to update every single query when you update a column to a table.

Long live typesafe query builders (aka Kysley and Drizzle ORM)

At my dayjob the application teams write raw SQL queries because they can't replace the ancient ORM that came with the framework. Some developer wrote an abstraction library over the database connector that is actually quite nice. You construct a Query object. For example new GetUserById(id); And then do $q->result($db); which yields you the User object you were looking for. Or null.

Joist is also interesting. It really focusses on great Typescript and lazy loading support while also automatically solving n+1 problems.

The issues that you've mentioned using raw SQL queries can be solved by using SafeQL. Zero abstractions, zero runtime code.

Been using sequelize, and typeorm and typeorm is the most comfortable to me

just what i needed

Best ORM is either no ORM or one that auto-generates the access layer based on the structure and types you've already defined in the database. Anything in between is just excess heat and trauma.

Nice to have Eloquent ORM baked right in the Laravel Framework providing all of these and more features out of the box.

I was gonna try typeORM a year ago, but found many articles warning not to use it because it wasn't maintained and had lot of issues. I have tried sequelize, it's great but it needs a lot of setup and it doesn't fully support typescript. I was gonna try Prisma recently, but then someone said that it had issues too with the Rust engine and that there being too much "overhead" and that it was bad for joins. Not to mention that your code would be third party dependant, as Jeff stated. Would really like a video about the underlying structure and flow in ORMs and their tradeoffs, not just about syntax. Appreciate your work :)

After experience with most of orms, Objection has the best developer experience with great performance

that clifhanger man, still waiting for the final result :D :D lol

That snoop dogg line was absolute gold.

Alright, now just to figure out how to shove a frickin' matress into my backend so my project won't fail. Thanks for the advice!

I really wish you mentioned joist, it’s TS backed and has facebooks data loader baked in at its core, allowing you to bundle similar queries together each event loop tick to reduce amount of queries you make to the db!

Using intellij sql intellisense in the code is way better than every orm can ever been.

Enjoying using Prisma along with Redwood JS at the moment, but the lack of support for PostGIS and spatial types is a bit of a drawback at the moment. Hopefully that support comes soon.

I can just tell you are a boyscast listener by some of your phrases and I love it.

Lol the first bell curve is literally me right now. I'm heading down the other side.

I'm developing a webapp and used MongoDB Atlas for it and Mongoose makes my life easier. But then I realized I'm better off with a relational database because there's a lot of relational data on my backend. I chose Postgres and studied Sequalize and I like how Sequalize is very similar to Mongoose. However, I also came to the conclusion that Supabase will make my project easier to maintain. So I signed for Supabase only to notice that there's no ORM for it. Everything is interfaced through the Supabase API. To manipulate data before they get stored in the database, you would need to write database functions, edge functions and triggers. Creating schemas, constraints, indexes, and RLS policies need to be written in SQL (though some of these can be done through the UI). Supabase was supposed to simplify a lot of stuff, but I'm finding it time-consuming to set up a lot of things. Why can't it be as easy a Sequalize?

I’m interested in buying your full Next 13 course, just wondering, does it teach Next 13 for those that already know Next 12 and below, or is it for people completely new to next. I am the latter and found a lot of tutorials tend to assume your coming from previous versions of next so am feeling a bit lost. Thanks

Great troll ending. Love it.

“joist-ts” is an awesome option for graphql + Postgres - has dataloader built in so any graph queries are N+1 safe. Reminds me a lot of ActiveRecord for Rails

My conclusion is that as long as you use raw SQL with the chosen ORM's raw method, you will have control over the performance. However, when you start using their innerJoin built-in methods, you may encounter performance issues. Nonetheless, using raw SQL for complex queries defeats the purpose of using an ORM. This raises the question of which ORM to use that provides a good migration tool and a well-defined schema with types. I believe ORMs are suitable for simple projects, but when it comes to large projects with complex queries and performance optimization requirements, they may not be ideal. Therefore, you will most like be using the ORM for defining schemas and migrations and writing raw SQL for most queries.

Might check Mikro-orm as well.

I personally love supabase‘s approach best - you have a GUI to create and update tables or columns

Is the one and only .... that works for you best !

Typeorm doesn't give full type safety. Even when you pass selective columns in select option for find method, the return type will still be array of entity and not array of those selective columns.

being a laravel developer feels like a ghoast or a stranger when you watch these videos

Lool man really knows his audience... also was that knex huge security problem patched

I'm currently interested in Orchid Orm.

I worked extensively in one of the ORM that’s Eloquent which Laravel uses which is a PHP framework

Been playing with Prima and GORM (Go). The amount of time I’ve spent setting them up and tweaking them instead of just working on my MVP with the few CRUD statements I actually need is…not great. I guess I like the idea cause for some reason I think I need to be able to change my database on a whim.

Laravel's built in ORM, Eloquent is pretty good too!

Now you owe us a dedicated MikroORM video.

When the nextjs 13 course is ready, please add it to udemy too

Hello!!! What do you think of the fairly new Typescript ORM DeepKit. Also could you benchmark the performance of these Typescript ORM??? 🙏

I made a similar research a while ago, I ended up using Prisma, it's a grate tool, great CLI, Fantastic Types if the DB is structured well, but I think you lose some performance specially when you do joins. I was thinking of using Prisma only for TS and migrations. and for complex queries, I might using raw SQL. I also faced an issue learning the Prisma schema file, but I used another way to evade learning new markup language. so first I write my sql changes in the DB, run "prisma db pull" , then drop/delete db changes, then run "prisma migrate dev"

Great! make a video about F# or EF Core

That @Entity based schema defining is also done in Android Room Db

LOOOOVE Prisma!

❤ from Kysely.

I'm convinced this is the kind of stuff Fireship does for fun when he's bored.

Entity framework + LINQ, saves you a ton

After 15 years of backend development (on the JVM though), I'll take a query builder over an ORM every time. Also: Migrations "down" are usually not worth your time (how to roll back a dropped column or table anyway?)

DTD lmfao, you are the funniest guy in CS

i knew that one was the best! i told yall

Jeff And Ozzyman are my most favourite Australians ❤️

Prisma for migrations (ddl), Kyseley for interactions (dml)

I am quite happy with Prisma. They did an amazing job.

Hey Knex, Eloquent says "Hi" .👋

slonik sees no love, I see how it is

TypeORM is pretty decent too. I use it at work. But I think Drizzle looks fun.

elixir's ecto 'toolkit for data mapping and language integrated query' is easy to use. it's kinda with js because phoenix liveview is a good and safe abstraction on js. and ecto is a good and safe abstraction on postgres.

drizzle for the win

Knex for me, been using it for years now

kysely and drizzle are great.

Which one would you guys recommend if I am planning to connect to multiple different user defined database during runtime?