I Use This Target Trace On Every Gig (And You Can Have It, Too)
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11 ай бұрын►► Get my Target Traces in my audio toolkit: www.producedbymkc.com/audioto...
I think we can all agree that our goal is to make sure our mix sounds great in every seat. The nosebleeds should sound as every bit as good as FOH.
Where we might differ is what tonality should be represented in every seat.
Is the PA flat? A low end bump? How much hotter are the subs vs the mains? High end rolloff?
Today I share with you my tried and true target trace (something I borrowed from my good friend and colleague Michael Lawrence, who borrowed it from Dennie Miller, another phenomenal SE).
We cover:
- How target traces serve as your tonal guide
- How to EQ a speaker to your desired target trace
- What does success look like for your system’s tonality
#systemdesign #systemtuning #livesound #liveaudio #sounddesign #audioengineering #soundoptimization #liveaudio #concertsound #audiomath #systemtuning #proaudio #soundengineering #soundtech #sounddesigner
@raygibernard2998 11 ай бұрын
Ahhah that’s crazy. 😂😂 I was thinking on how to start with it. And that video just popped up on my phone. Thanks Michael
@KianWirries 11 ай бұрын
Thanks Michael. That was so Important Information. This was what I was missing, to tune System. Such an Important Video! THANKS A LOT MY MAN!
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
You're very welcome!
@anthonygalli5949 11 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for sharing the traces! I was looking for that Michael Lawrence one for a while and glad he shared it
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
You got it!
@googleantispy3850 11 ай бұрын
As mainly a studio guy who mixes the occasional live show (but has also built mix rooms and dealt with smaller room energy-time-frequency issues), I'm still trying to wrap my head around that +15 on the bottom end of the target curve. Really!? +2 to a +4 maybe, but +15! Whew. What am I missing here? Maybe you can point me to an earlier video that explains the rationale for this huge LF bump...
@jonathanhatchmusic 11 ай бұрын
I find that most people used to studio settings or near-fields tend to not be a fan of the live low end sound. In my current situation I have to tame the low end more than I am used to doing live due to those I am working for and their preferences, but also so my stream mix sounds fairly accurate to the house.
@johnschalk1271 11 ай бұрын
Think of this as a suggested starting point for voicing a PA for live pop/rock music. It is not necessarily where you'd want to start if your day consisted of acoustic folk musical acts. And the low frequency hump might be too small if your PA was being used for hip hop or an EDM show. Something else I've noticed is that pop music recordings often have a low frequency tilt already, so what sounds good with pre-show music may sound a bit thin for live drums and bass guitars. YMMV of course :)
@2fd742 6 ай бұрын
If you compare dbA and dbC measurements during a live concert. It wil be a difference around 12db. Thats why I use 12db in my target trace.
@niccster1061 6 ай бұрын
Yeah. It's like the Harman target but even worse. Disgusting lol
@StereoAnthony 3 ай бұрын
Same. Studio guy that went to live sound, and I totally don't get this 15db boost. I'm also a huge bass head, but it needs to be clean and punchy. I'm theorizing it has something to do with the way we perceive frequencies and how much more lowend is needed to compensate for mid range and top end, for everything to sound balanced. Any room I've ever done sound in, I always have to cut low end to compensate for room.
@haartammik1350 11 ай бұрын
Thank you for great content! I did seem to notice that the target trace done by Michael Lawrence that was discussed in the video doesn't seem to be in your audio toolkit.
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
Hmmm, it should be there? It it not in the Google Drive folder that it links to?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
Thank you for the heads up, you're totally right! I had recently moved some things around and Drive and had messed up that folder. There's a new link now that has them all in there.
@bendowd5354 6 ай бұрын
Thanks Michael, love your content even though I’m a small venue engineer and DJ. Just got my first measurement mic, and I found this target trace to be pretty destructive for recorded music, like when I DJ weddings. Would you recommend this target trace more for live band situations?
@keeskoppen5303 11 ай бұрын
Hi Michael, thanks for this clear explanation of the target trace. Something I've always wondered about is the slow decline from about 1K and upward. Since it is set in empty venue, what happens to your frequency response in a small venue when the room fills up with treble-absorbing people? Do you re-measure? Can you please elaborate on that?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
The only top end adjustments I make once show starts are usually in the VHF (8kHz and up) for changes in humidity, since HF travels more efficiently through water vapor than normal "air". So, I'm ok with seats higher in the venue having a bit darker response when tuning, knowing that they will brighten up a bit when folks come in.
@marcusnielsen 5 ай бұрын
Really good as usual Michael! I'm learning so much from your channel. I've been a sound engineer for 30+ years but never really dug deep into system design on a more theoretical level. You inspire me and I go back to your videos over and over again while trying new things. What are your thoughts on the DSP 408? Does it have any flaws sound-wise that would make you hesitate using it in a installation? I have seen you like to use A&H for that.
@MichaelCurtisAudio 5 ай бұрын
Thanks a ton! I'd have no problem using the DSP 408 in an installation just as long as you don't need any more zoning/outputs than than what's available. It's a great little unit.
@marcusnielsen 5 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thanks for replying. Perhaps one can use 2 units if more outputs is needed?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 5 ай бұрын
@@marcusnielsenSure thing!
@LeeFordDiYs 6 ай бұрын
Great vid. But Where is the target trace ? Already subscribed . Where can I download it? Thank you
@davormaric4354 10 ай бұрын
Hey Michael, thanks for your videos. Side note though, how do you like DSP408? I need it mostly for sub & fills processing. I'm using RDNet for array processing, so no need to go fancy IMO. Cheers
@MichaelCurtisAudio 10 ай бұрын
The DSP408 has been treating me very well! A few quirks as far as workflow/control, but it's been stable, does what it says it can do, and fairly easy to get around on.
@donnyp_ 11 ай бұрын
Hey Michael! Great video as always! EDIT: Sike about the issue below - I had opened on an older version of the toolkit and didn't realize :P There might be an issue with the Drive Link for the target traces. Whenever I click on it, it opens to an empty folder for a second and then opens the trash folder in my drive which never loads for some reason :(
@jeffreystipe925 11 ай бұрын
Do you approach outdoor events in the same way? I have a repeat event next month and plan to add a second sub versus last year. I didn’t know open sound meter last year so will use that in setup. Thanks for all of your insight…
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
Yes I do! Again, this target is always a starting point, then I play some reference tracks and will adjust the LF tilt to suit the show's content and how the room feels.
@christianskovengaard9909 3 ай бұрын
Hi Michael. Are the target traces for floor wedges aswell? Thanks
@YiPSKiPP 11 ай бұрын
Unfortunately most QSC point source speakers seem to more naturally follow the L Acoustics curve, so I've been using that one a lot more so I don't have to do as much processing. But I do have a room with some Meyer speakers which are more flat, and this curve works great!
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
Glad to hear that!
@marcusnielsen 5 ай бұрын
Could you elaborate a bit what the L-Acoustics curve looks like compared to the flatter Meyer?
@YiPSKiPP 5 ай бұрын
@@marcusnielsen The L Acoustics curve has a slope in the midrange and the Michael Lawrence curve doesn't. The Meyer speakers are more even in the midrange so they match the Michael Lawrence curve better
@phutran2006 4 ай бұрын
Hi Michael, where would you place the mic when using this trace target? I put the measurement mic in the audience area and I find it too much bass. Thanks
@JuanJose-wt5yj 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. Would you also use that target that you see as a reference to calibrate a home theater and then adjust, for example, the lowest frequencies to your particular taste? I say this because in that target there is +15 dB at 20-30 Hz vs 300 Hz towards mid-high frequencies. In the sharpest zone of 16-17 khz it always puts that drop or Is it going to suit each person? Always speaking for a home theater whose main listening point is from 2.50 to 4 meters for example. written with translator Greetings
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
I'd say this target trace suits live music the most. I'd probably tend to use the Dolby Cinema curve for a home theater.
@JuanJose-wt5yj 11 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thank you for the courtesy in answering.
@avia4281 6 ай бұрын
Is smaart sued with eq apo and measuring mic better than dirac for home use on an avr 5.1 audio?
@reddog196 11 ай бұрын
Hi Michael, love your videos. I got your tool kit and there are no traces in your Google drive link. Could you help ?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
In this link? - drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wLFuF0yMybNNJE1NM2KD65b66SdNF_IV
@uzkezbalakh 11 ай бұрын
Hi Michael.. This might be a newbie question. Is TARGET TRACES itself is a standard slope for any venue?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
If I'm understanding your question the answer is yes. I will usually end up finding the lows and low mids some to help shape it to fit the perceived low end due to reflections and the reverberance of the space.
@WDesertForce 11 ай бұрын
Whether you are doing a music event, or just presenters with playback - wouldn't this kind of curve on a system level just result in having to manually cut low mids on every channel which isn't BD, floor, bass gtr, DJ? It seems like fewer operations generally to put a boosted low shelf on the channels which need it, rather than cut it from everything which doesn't.
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
I definitely empathize with your point here and I know that +15dB at 63Hz vs 1kHz is a big discrepancy. I still find that even I was mixing for broadcast (a system "vacuum") then piped my channels with their current processing through that PA that it still would sound natural, not too bloated or boomy. I find myself shaping the low mids on most sources not because the PA has the lift, but because most sources have too much low mids from the starting line.
@jonathanhatchmusic 11 ай бұрын
Great video on traces!! Do you aim for that same trace as a target curve when you mix? What kind of target curve do you use for mixing church music?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
The target trace is only for the system's tonality, not for my mix's tonality apart from the system.
@jonathanhatchmusic 11 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio yes, just curious what you use for Target Curve when mixing☺️
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
@@jonathanhatchmusic Got it! I usually end up running iZotope's Tonal Balance Control 2 and making sure things stay within the "Modern" curve. I don't use the Target Curves function in Smaart.
@jonathanhatchmusic 11 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio oooh sweet! I haven’t tried that
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
@@jonathanhatchmusic It's a WONDERFUL tool to have when you're mixing in a new environment or in one that you don't trust - like a broadcast truck : )
@livemixpriyan 11 ай бұрын
Hey Michael, what do u using STREAM DECK MK.2 for? as a sound engineer?
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
I honestly haven't found too many uses for the new one (the rotary encodes), but I use a first generation stream deck in the field to trigger my playback cues from QLab.
@FreeKeenan 9 ай бұрын
How can I get the ML target trace for smaart? Big problem here Michael! I was finally getting a tad comfortable on OSM. And I donated too! OSM crashed a few times but managed to get her up and running again. But last night she's done. So I contacted Rational Acoustics to verify my windows 11 pro laptop will hold up. They confirmed yes but recommended I download Smarrt 9 Suite demo. It responds like a champ. The BIG problem is I'M COMPLETELY LOST IN SPACE ON IT. I somewhat got her going but couldn't figure out how to save my work and configuration?? 😢
@conorm2524 Ай бұрын
Can't save configs on the demo versions.
@tobin_nathan 11 ай бұрын
I guess I always assumed the HF cut off at ≈16k was just because most large PAs fall off naturally. But I see you’re using the LPF to actively get that response. Is that something you do in the field too, and what are the advantages?
@Solmbarnes 11 ай бұрын
Also interested in why this was done.
@MichaelCurtisAudio 11 ай бұрын
You're right, most large format PA systems that have a longer prorogation path to the listener will fall off naturally here, and I should have made that distinction. I wanted to go ahead and do it anyway because sometimes you're using a similar PA box as a front fill and still want the tonality to match the mains, even though it's not throwing near as far.
@tobin_nathan 11 ай бұрын
@@MichaelCurtisAudio that makes total sense, I hadn’t thought of that application. Thanks!!!
@niccster1061 6 ай бұрын
So this is essentially the harman target but even MORE bloated and bass boosted? Maybe for live shows and PA speakers but dont correct studio speakers to that imo
@MichaelCurtisAudio 6 ай бұрын
Totally with you there. My studio speakers are tuned flat. I only use this in live environments.
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