Ignition Timing...How Much And Why

Рет қаралды 135,048

4 жыл бұрын

There are too many factors to list when it comes to determining optimum ignition timing for any individual engine combination, but there are some relationships that remain constant and common to all. Here's the big one.

Пікірлер: 383

@rloewen11 4 жыл бұрын

As a high school teacher, I'm always amazed at how you make fairly complex subjects understandable (even to me). Good on you Tony!

@user-wv1pj6wh4h 10 күн бұрын

timing is easy you dont understand cause they dont know...

@unicornsteaks6769 4 жыл бұрын

WOW That bird was really happy for most of this video.

@fostercathead 4 жыл бұрын

Dear Lord! I was about to ask whether or not it was in the same room with him! Love the video, though.

@easygoing2479 3 жыл бұрын

I was wondering if instead Uncle Kathy had hit Uncle Tony over the head just before the video.

@pauldenick1830 4 жыл бұрын

Love that story about Big Daddy DG! Very practical info about tuning that nobody talks about. Keep em coming UT and UK.

@Talal_alshammri. 4 жыл бұрын

He made this video just to escape from body work for (6:02) minutes. Good one Uncle Tony 😂😂😂

@TEN-TIMES-HARDER 4 жыл бұрын

yeah but youtube got weird, now they stop showing your popular videos if you dont pump out consistant videos, even if nobody likes them, they start sharing your old videos again lmao, i find myself deleting a lot of videos after, just trying to hang in there lmao if a 9$ an hour kid with a scanner is stealing our jobs, guess its time to teach the secrets lmao

@thehappytexan 4 жыл бұрын

This explains the 400 sbc I had in high school always liked more timing than all the 350’s. At the track, she loved 100 octane and 42 degrees of timing. The 350’s pinged on 42 degrees even with 100 octane. On the street it was 36 for a 350, and 38 for my 400. I loved that engine. Put it to the wood and let it eat!

@user-wv1pj6wh4h 10 күн бұрын

@transfixleo 4 жыл бұрын

On the chance someone is still thinking, OK but WHY does a larger bore require more timing, let me offer an illustration that may help. Visualize the air/fuel mixture as a bunch of dominoes. It takes X amount of time, measured in degrees of rotation, for them to all fall. Now, imagine a larger bore. It will take that many more dominoes and therefore, more time for them to fall.

@zmanphx 4 жыл бұрын

Also where the plug is located center vs side.

@littlered6780 2 жыл бұрын

I like the explanation "it was entirely based on the real estate the flame front had to cover... Dominoes are good but flame front/real estate is magnifico.. :))

@samhicks97 2 жыл бұрын

That analogy is very good, was able to visualize the Air/Fuel being burned.

@HammerHeadGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Rumour was at 50 degrees the slingshot was cackling so hard the crew didn't want to go near it. lmao. LEGEND.

@stanpotter7764 4 жыл бұрын

If everybody in the country knew as much about their profession as UT does, our roads would be pot hole free, bread would never go stale, and cancer would be cured. This guy is amazing.

@lewhanna6112 4 жыл бұрын

I have never heard anyone explain that so well. My 71 10:1 440 liked 46 degrees of total timing. I ran 11.70 on 28 inch slicks, 13.10 on street tires.

@needmetal3221 4 жыл бұрын

That's strong

@lewhanna6112 4 жыл бұрын

Need metal, it was so much fun. 71 charger I worked my butt off to own. Life got in the way of keeping it. I miss that car. Right after I sold it, classic Mopars went way up in price.

@needmetal3221 4 жыл бұрын

@@lewhanna6112 that's happened to many of us.

@user-wv1pj6wh4h 10 күн бұрын

looks to much for me.. are yous ure it snt knowcking? there are knocikg that you cant listen..

@bertamusprime618 4 жыл бұрын

Another out standing video and perfect timing (Pun intended). I have been messing with the timing on my car and this video helped to clear some items and questions up. Keep up the great work!

@cactuscanuck6802 4 жыл бұрын

Great info Uncle! As a licensed gas fitter, the relationship between flame front distance traveled, flame velocity and differences in fuel combustion and engine aspiration makes perfect sense!

@busterworley8418 2 жыл бұрын

I recently bought a 69 chevelle. Tony has helped me remember all I forgot and taught me things I didn’t know. Thanks Tony.

@The_R-n-I_Guy 4 жыл бұрын

You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge. I learn something from just about every video. Thanks again

@drrrrockzo 4 жыл бұрын

That is a really interesting take on timing...I've never thought about it that way. Thanks for another informative video!

@55hemidodge 4 жыл бұрын

Your explanation of things like this is absolutely incredible! You just told me why the 225 slant six in my 62 Lancer runs at its best at about 25 degrees Advance on the timing. I always knew she ran better that way but I never fully understood why until you just explained it in detail. Thank you Uncle Tony!

@mattbauckman9907 4 жыл бұрын

This is an explanation that I’ve never heard before but makes total sense. Thanks Tony.

@ThunderHead289 4 жыл бұрын

Key phrase “all else being equal” between 3 engines of 3 different bore sizes. 👍 Good luck with the body work. can’t blame you - hate it also! And it shows

@jaredfarney675 4 жыл бұрын

😲🤩🤘🏻😎

@tropicalstormstephen2891 4 жыл бұрын

Every video makes me smile on your channel. I have been in love with classic cars since I was a lil lad and my pop and I don't really see eye to eye on interests... I love the man but I have only few influences in my life that actually appreciate the beauty that comes with great American auto engineering! I can only imagine what it must've been like back in the late 60s and early 70s driving by the dealerships.... I wouldave given anything to go back to that era to learn and understand why they did it this wounderful way... The only way I can do meaningful research is through experiencing my own mechanical obsticals with my father's old cj5, and with helpful content like yours. I look forward to seeing what you have to share with us next and I admire your respect, understanding and passion for this culture. Thankyou! 🤘

@420gzuz 2 жыл бұрын

This is the video that I needed to watch and YOU are the man who needed to teach me my lesson today in spark timing. Makes perfect sense but I never thought of it this way before. Awesome.

@stanglincoln1659 4 жыл бұрын

I remember back in the day you were the first one tell people where to set their timing on a 5.0 Mustang

@stevemiller5355 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Uncle Tony for the endless knowledge and videos. You help keep me sane during these difficult times 🙏 bless you sir

@SilentGamer-jt8dl 4 жыл бұрын

I just want to say thank you for all videos, you do a great job at explaining things and i have learnt a lot just by watching

@bladeslicemaster5390 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for that explanation. I am trying to adjust the mallory unilite timing curve for my AMC 401 with a 4.165" bore. I've never done it before and am starting from scratch. This video helps a lot!

@amirhoseinkargar3733 11 ай бұрын

I never feel regret watching your videos and allways teaches me something new. Thanx tony

@larryr8492 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, spent 25 years in CDPJ Dealerships and still picking up useful tips. My project, 1995 Dakota, 5.9 Magnum swap in (formerly 3.9 I couldn’t break) with Megasquirt and LS coils. Feel the pain of no Mopar parts, the next gen Dakota supported well but not so much mine. MAKING EVERYTHING.

@greggb1416 3 жыл бұрын

“Theory” video, I like that term. Your 5-6min., short concise too the point explanation(s) are great...! Thank you sir.

@01trsmar 4 жыл бұрын

Great info...Awesome explanation!!! I used to drive around adjusting the timing and where the car had more seat of the pants feel,that's where it stayed! This was when I was a teen but still works today!! I like doing bodywork!! The rustier and more bashed the better!!! Seriously,I restored hundreds of Mopar's..bodywork relaxes me!! Especially when I have to hammer on it!!

@robertschreiber8099 4 жыл бұрын

I'd be there, on the other side of the car!

@colemanadamson5943 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation of advance timing. Really well done.

@db7069 4 жыл бұрын

Very interesting, I’ve always looked it as 3 legged stool. chamber, compression and cam. Did consider the fourth leg. This is as helpful as you article from the mid 80s of how to lap your valves while sitting on the toilet. I’ve been a fan a long time. 😀

@moderateextremist7344 4 жыл бұрын

You explain things very well UT.

@Freedomquest08 4 жыл бұрын

If you don't like bodywork now, just wait until they ring up your paint at the cash register. The nothing special paint on my last paint job was around $1,100. From that point on, I've learned to love patina.

@snoopy5736 4 жыл бұрын

Junk

@Freedomquest08 4 жыл бұрын

@@snoopy5736 To each their own. Live the life you can afford.

@jimbolove5669 2 жыл бұрын

dude, your audio quality is so good, I thought there was a bird in my living room, I hit pause and chirps stoped, hit play and heard rest of the chirps, haha that was a freaking awesome surprise to me it was.

@jamestankersley6901 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Uncle Tony, you are appreciated!

@jameslewis1175 3 жыл бұрын

New to the channel man but so far love the common sense ur putting out there man. Thanks

@oantech4252 25 күн бұрын

Great video.. Makes a lot of sense. Rule of Thumb..... Advance the timing until it pings under load and back it off from that spot for optimum... 454 Chevy dials in at around 37 degrees. 👌

@user-up8sn1xv7k 7 ай бұрын

The Birds are fabulous, you are full of great information also. Thanks Tony

@darykoughton5473 4 жыл бұрын

Great video very informative!

@edwardfoehring8827 4 жыл бұрын

Awsome Tony, always wondered why on timing and nitro . Bore size thank you so much not many people could answere that.

@frankjames5515 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent straight-forward presentation.

@eddiehuff7366 4 жыл бұрын

Thanx again Tony. That makes sense to me when you say things like flame front.

@wheels-n-tires1846 4 жыл бұрын

Best explanation ever... Was trying to explain timing relationships to the kids a while back, but made it 800 times more complicated than it needed to be lol... Now Ill just tell em "watch Uncle Tony"....👍😂

@matthewcromwell1969 2 жыл бұрын

I remember watching Don tell that story in am interview. Great story thank you for explaining it like you did.

@TorontoModifiedKarKlub 2 жыл бұрын

That was excellent. Much to learn. I never learned this much in school.

@yobentley7274 4 жыл бұрын

I kind of get it. Thank you for the continuing education.

@The_Future_isnt_so_Bright 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome video as always. I noticed on KZfaq that there is no 'good' videos explaining Oversquare, Undersquare, and Square bore to stroke ratios and how this can effect power output, and why engine designers went with the specs they chose. Recall in one of the slant six videos you briefly talking about this. Its a topic that hasn't been covered in english here on KZfaq.

@MartinPerez-ew9pk Жыл бұрын

Great information, I haven't heard or watched a video like this on KZfaq.

@320Racer 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for another great video UTG!!! enjoyed it as always!

@SketchysGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Don is one of the most passionate people about his craft I ever had the privilege of taking too.

@ruszko726 4 жыл бұрын

I have an hei on my sbf, I took out the springs on the weight so I get full advance, MAN TONY YOU WERE RIGHT, VERY VERY SNAPPY LOW END, it's running a little lean, about mid 13's Afr when I stomp on it at about 4-6k, but I just gotta get some smaer metering rods, and bigger jegs. Thank you Uncle Tony

@billynoland7778 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Tony. Have fun with the body work.

@ProjectFairmont 4 жыл бұрын

Top notch info Uncle Tony!

@chuckfischer7202 3 жыл бұрын

Can see the relationship. Better understanding now. Thanks.

@kevkilian 4 жыл бұрын

Such a simple concept that I didn't understand until now. I feel like an idiot, but now I understand. Thanks UT

@shanerodrigue6920 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info .always educational.

@mikiejr111 2 ай бұрын

Brought my 66'IMPALA SS ZZ502/600HP..5SPD,3:42 to numerous mechanics that TOLD me they were the best in the business,car was always tuned like a sleeping baby,I just did a tune and advanced timing and my God did this car WAKE up,,Holy Moly,my base timing is 22°,took a while to figure out,thought 22 was to much,but the engine runs best at this setting,idles at 900,nice grunt,responds perfectly on the road,lots of fun

@100amps 4 жыл бұрын

Great lesson. Thanks UT.

@peterplouf2836 Жыл бұрын

"Real Estate" by piston diameter, is a squared function. What this means is that a small change in piston diameter makes a much bigger difference in piston real estate size. This was a very useful video. FYI. this video combined with another one where you explain how you want your fuel explosion to finish pushing the piston before BDC, goes a long way to understanding how an efficient engine works.

@bradyhicks1381 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks UT and UK another great story and lesson. Crank the mag Big Daddy sent it. Take it or break it ✌

@justinwright6611 4 жыл бұрын

I just learnt a heap and extremely well explained.

@Daniel-Weaver 4 жыл бұрын

Love the use of heap. As in ,you boys are in a heap o trouble now. And it's splained, not ex splained.👍Lucy I'm home!

@mikealexander4166 3 жыл бұрын

Nice job explaining. I’ve seen that DG interview, awesome story.

@oldguyhobbies4627 Жыл бұрын

That was sooooo informative and to the point. Thank you for the information! I'm new to the channel and will watch your other videos but what was also interesting was the story of the 426. If you haven't already shared that in a different video, it would be interesting to hear how you came about the information.

@shempuhorn8261 Жыл бұрын

Wow. Very useful info. Will help with timing starting points

@todddennehy804 3 жыл бұрын

Trying to teach my guys when to use a vac gauge. This will clarify for them. Thanks for explaining ported vs manifold.

@barefootbandit1 6 ай бұрын

Awesome information mate thank you

@patrickradcliffe3837 4 жыл бұрын

This was one of those Voodoo things about engines that I just took at face value with no explanation from the guys I learned to turn wrenches from. I just learned something new today.

@matthewhubler4219 3 жыл бұрын

Great info! Keep it up.

@stevenbongiorno9277 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I’ve been working on Chevy 350s, and I just put a bunch of money in my personal one. I talked to a buddy who races , asking about how much timing I should run. I’m running 32, but he says I can run 34. I know it ain’t much, but I’m running on a budget and can’t afford to blow her up. I’ve finally got a great set of ported heart shaped chamber heads on her. I’m guessing I’m running about 9.7 compression with I would consider great flow from intake to exhaust. Everything is port matched, and trust me , they’re is no restriction on either part. I run a modified 3310. I mean the throttle shafts are thinned down, the main body has been polished. I’ve jetted up to compensate. I’ve geared the car from a 3:08 to a 3:75. I’ve got a set of racing headers on her, to a free flowing exhaust. I know it’ll make more power, but what kinda initial timing should I look at?

@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 4 жыл бұрын

IMO, you'l likely feel a power loss once you get past optimum. From "optimum", I'd turn it back a hair (that's the way I roll). Be careful though, might not have much warning as when things heat up, clearances become tighter, pistons heat up, oil film breaks down and aluminum melts. The question at some point becomes "Is the risk of roasting something worth going for more".

@keithcalitri840 4 жыл бұрын

Good stuff UT keep it coming.

@phillippearce9680 4 жыл бұрын

Very informative!👍

@pittsky 4 жыл бұрын

Great info as always.

@LunarOutlawsGarage 4 жыл бұрын

I really enjoy bodywork it’s right there within building engines 🤙

@johnwilburn 4 жыл бұрын

They are two entirely different worlds.

@darrengibson644 4 жыл бұрын

Great tip...had never heard of that relationship! How does stroke/dwell time affect it?

@williamstamper442 4 жыл бұрын

Lets say stroke remains the same. That would be the distance the piston moves up and down in the cylinder. A longer connecting rod has more angularity in regards to the crankpin (connecting rod journal or "throw") than a shorter connecting rod which has less angularity. The longer rod will "hold" the piston at top dead center "longer" as measured in crankshaft degrees than a shorter connecting rod with the same stroke crankshaft. Piston speed (velocity) as it travels up and down the bore, say in middle of travel either way up or down, also based on rod length. They call it rod ratio, which is connecting rod length center to center divided by stroke. This number is often between 1.5 and 1.7 on most of the V8 engines Tony messes with on this channel as a good example. The higher (larger number) the rod ratio, the longer the piston is gonna remain at top dead center (dwell there) before getting yanked or pushed onto the downstroke. Timing is affected GREATLY on dwell time. Also that thing that Tony said which i love is "real estate" in other words bore diameter...bigger the bore the more "real estate". Stroke being the same, the longer connecting rod is gonna hang out longer at top dead center before it starts down....lets say for this description, on the power stroke. Gasoline generally burns at a given rate which varies on alot of factors but lets keep it simple that single rate for any tank of fuel adequate for your engine... Timing is telling when to light the spark plug. The flame front is gonna burn and spread out or "propegate" at the same rate no matter how fast the engine is spinning. Higher rpms require timing lead also called advance. How long the piston stays at top dead center Directly affects WHEN to start that spark and let er burn. I think Tony could have said it way better but i did answer your question. Reason i posted this long comment was to get my head working again after this stupid lockdown. Im in michigan and we were hit pretty hard....by a really stupid governor.

@kramnull8962 4 жыл бұрын

@@williamstamper442 Hope you are safe from the muddy waters up there...

@francfurian8215 4 жыл бұрын

William Stamper I hope things turn around for you guys soon. Cheers😊

@Welcometofacsistube 4 жыл бұрын

William Stamper very well explained

@rcnelson 4 жыл бұрын

@@williamstamper442 I pity all those under Witless Whitmer's jackboots.

@novaguy8419 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip tony. I wish I could come out there and make your life easier and give you a hand on that body work. But I know you will get it.

@dh2360 4 жыл бұрын

I use to dread auto body work also but eventually it became the one thing I'm best at on classic cars. That is the great thing about the old car hobby, so many different lines of work go into one car that if you at least focus on one thing and master it then it becomes enjoyable. Hopefully, it's eventually not a lost art as most my friends focus on video games and not anything else.

@hawiianpwr 3 жыл бұрын

Great video!

@woogiespeed4472 2 жыл бұрын

Great video and love the cardinal in the background lol

@caddydaddy6728 4 жыл бұрын

Love it unk keep it up more info👍👍

@campbellpaul 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Tony, for a long time I thought it was little men from the old Autolite commercials that did it.

@remington351 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation. I'd really like an Uncle Tony vid walking us through the procedure to set initial and total advance timing demonstrated on project daily driver. The other uthube videos are using new age programmable timing lights and iphone apps. I'm sure UT can show us how it's done with a 30 year old timing bulb and a dwell meter. Reply to this post with a thumbs up and maybe UT will see the interest from the viewers and make a vid for us.

@NebukedNezzer 4 жыл бұрын

good information. thanks.

@dbarkley1053 4 жыл бұрын

I been waiting for you to cover this. So glad you did. If the 318 would want about 32*-33* total timing, what roughly would be initial and how much vacuum advance would you want your vacuum to add? My vacuum can has 17*.

@kphedges707 2 жыл бұрын

Great video

@UnityMotorSportsGarage 4 жыл бұрын

Good stuff! Garlits had his money cut on a match race. And that is what pushed him to try and blow it up!

@marcstlaurent3719 4 жыл бұрын

Great info with the bore size

@gregorytimmons4777 4 жыл бұрын

There are a few things that affect it to some degree. The position of the spark plug for one. I have learned this because my 1976 Moto Guzzi motorcycle has Hemi heads but the spark plug is not in the optimal location because the valve size is big enough that the electrode is moved down from the center of the chamber to where there is room between the valves as you move away from the exact center which is also where the 2 valves are closest edge to edge.

@mostlymoparih5682 4 жыл бұрын

Good stuff Unk.

@Firebird400 4 жыл бұрын

Nice video tony , I need to adjust the timing on my can now 🙄. Been messing with it a bit but it’s definitely not optimized. Need to get the carburetor sorted out then move to timing I guess

@UncleRoots413 Жыл бұрын

Thank you again sir.

@foot675 4 жыл бұрын

Koodo. Good information!.

@prenticechafin 4 жыл бұрын

Love to hear you chatter.

@cudatali 4 жыл бұрын

Crazy that you picked this topic. I had spent my last two evenings researching the main factor to determine optimal total timing. Thanks Tony. Btw I’ve always loved that story about Garlits. Question I’ve also read that the less efficient the combustion chamber the more timing needed? Not something I want to totally believe knowing that Garlits story. Can you shed light on that theory?

@flyurway Жыл бұрын

How cool! Never knew that.

@johnstadelman4022 4 жыл бұрын

I really love your videos. Your LunarOutlaw's Garage buddy says he "really enjoys bodywork". Maybe he can be of some assistance.

@carguy3028 4 жыл бұрын

I just got a 72 GMC painted and I did a lot of the body work, I think you like it as much as I do.

@timruiter5460 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks UT!

@billmcbillface7467 3 жыл бұрын

And this is why I keep coming back to UTG. I almost always find the simplest answer to whatever question is in my head. As far as bodywork goes? The best home gamer body/paint guys always hate it.

@OlympusHeavyCavalry 4 жыл бұрын

Interestring. Cheers for the video :-)

@samuelortiz105 4 жыл бұрын

I hope we get to see some bodywork videos from you Uncle Tony.

@GTRliffe 2 жыл бұрын

simple/effective explanation

@jusztinnemeti6380 4 жыл бұрын

Things I learned from UTG:. Every old car has rust. It's just a matter of how much that matters. Do your research or you will get rolled by a car flipper. Gasoline isn't as dangerous as we thought, but must still be respected And yes, people still smoke cigarettes.

@jamest.5001 4 жыл бұрын

Chamber shape, compression ratio, bore, stroke! And engine speed/ operating range! AND FUEL! Temperature maybe?

@immikeurnot 4 жыл бұрын

Yep, temperature, too. BTDT. Car would ping if I sat and idled it too long, but after babying it for a minute, the fresh air would cool the air filter and housing off enough that I could get into it. In retrospect, I should have probably just backed it off a degree, but I wanted every last horse.