Improving Your Neutral in SSBU: The Neutral Triangle

Рет қаралды 93,360

Күн бұрын

The phrase "Neutral Game" is used a lot in the competitive Super Smash Bros Ultimate scene. If you want to be a top player in the game, you must be good at the Neutral Game.
What IS the Neutral Game? Why is it important? And more importantly, what makes a good neutral game?
Although we may not be able to explain all of the intricacies of Neutral in one video, we can at least explain one of its many nuances with this one concept - The Neutral Triangle
Machabo Article: guiltygear.se/ggfundamentals-m...
Written by Brian Ding and Ethan Anderson
Edited by Luke Stocking
Twitter: / usuckatneutral
Music used:
Under Night in Birth OST OST Gathers Under Night (Character Select Theme)
Street Fighter V Zeku Theme
Street Fighter V Karin Theme
Street Fighter V Alex Theme (Jazzy NYC '99)
Akuma Stage - Killing Moon - Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike OST
Street Fighter V High Roller Casino Theme

Пікірлер: 98

@AverageDoctor345 3 жыл бұрын

I know this isn't what the video's talking about, but recently I've been trying to think about why cpus are bad to practice against and this answered my question. They only use the bottom part of the triangle and never really poke. They also don't really care about your poking, which means that you're forced into the same bottom part of the triangle that they are. Basically, of you poke they will _always_ react, but if you overshoot they won't poke, which can lead players to believe that that's a good way to always play.

@andrewjacob1789 Жыл бұрын

Yeah use level 3-6 cpus to practice combos (vary with different weight types so you learn the nuances of your combos) Use level 9s to see if you can kill without baiting an air Dodge Or use level 9s and try not to get hit. See what the level 9 is punishing and learn to immediately switch up that habit. Cpus are a great tool to use to practice despite what the overall community seems to think

@shankarsubramani810 3 жыл бұрын

Neutral changes in every matchup on every stage for every character. Am I crazy or is that crazy?

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

No, you're definitely correct! Different matchups means that there are options that some characters might struggle to deal with. Same thing for stages, let's say you want to have more room to whiff punish, you would definitely want to pick a bigger stage, if you want to box your opponent in more, you would pick a smaller stage. The Neutral Triangle is just one singular interaction that is happening within Neutral. Hope this cleared things up! - Brian Ding

@shankarsubramani810 3 жыл бұрын

You Suck at Neutral I completely agree, the neutral triangle is a great way to explain the fundamental gameplan in any neutral. I think adding the definition of neutral (using movement and hit boxes to directly get stage control by forcing them above you or into a corner or indirectly get it by landing a combo) at the beginning or description would be a good addition, as it’s commonly forgotten.

@84TZ 3 жыл бұрын

For sure, some stages work for and against certain characters. Easiest proof is some get huge help from wall jumps and it makes ledge guarding a whole lot more intriguing. Second easiest is that some characters really struggle with that side zoning on Kalos.

@Tvhurdghit4fhi6rr 3 жыл бұрын

No sonic just gets a lead and runs away on every stage in the game

@thenthefuture 3 жыл бұрын

@@Tvhurdghit4fhi6rr Maybe try to anticipate on where sonic will move while running away (just a thought)

@TheCodingGamer 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome video! I also recommend following this video up with Dabuz's "How to win neutral in one jump" video, as it will help explain a lot of the mentality behind what and how to play/position yourself in neutral.

@angelcastiel7876 3 жыл бұрын

Love the UNIST theme.

@pkmudkip 3 жыл бұрын

Great video but man it keeps bugging me everytime i saw the word shield spelt as sheild onscreen lmao

@PinupSticknerd 8 ай бұрын

Da strat😂😊😢😅

@FreePokemonGiveaway 3 жыл бұрын

This was an awesome watch! Really eye opening. Thank you so much.

@patrickstar258 3 жыл бұрын

Those videos are so informative thanks

@likapitam 3 жыл бұрын

Very good material, can't wait to see more content from your channel, subscribed and bell notification made. Thank you for this video!

@thesubmatrix 3 жыл бұрын

This is by far the best explanation of neutral I've come across!!! I want to learn to be better at smash and this has been such a big help! Thank you for the video!

@lichenwtf 2 жыл бұрын

This video is a great introduction into the basic decision-making necessary for a game as complex as Ultimate. Thanks for sharing!

@curagaifrit6829 Жыл бұрын

Ive been playing for years and this is what was never explained to me. This just made me twice as consistent immediately after watching, thank you so much!

@shankarsubramani810 3 жыл бұрын

I would like a guide on stages. Just talking about general tips and what types of characters benefit on bf, sbf, fd, town, ps2, sv, kalos, lylat, ys, and yoshis island brawl.

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

Definitely on our list of ideas

@sr.cigarrillo919 3 жыл бұрын

POV: You just got 3 stocked and came to youtube to see if anything helps you.

@oriolysmedia Ай бұрын

😂

@NateHicks 3 жыл бұрын

this is really good!

@spyox04 Ай бұрын

This is an amazing video, I improved my gameplay a lot and became better at the game after understanding this

@twilightmaster450 3 жыл бұрын

Really good quality content!

@PaKuaKwon 3 жыл бұрын

So many classic themes in this music

@monarkbeats4306 Жыл бұрын

I absolutly love this approach of the neutral

@GamerplushMaker 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much I will now send this to my friend who just started

@TheGamersState 2 жыл бұрын

Just came across this channel, definitely subscribing!

@freshhburryt3538 2 жыл бұрын

This was very helpful

@Patrick-bn5rp 3 жыл бұрын

This video is excellent.

@evanvolmar8127 Жыл бұрын

Beautiful

@kawaharaizumi731 3 жыл бұрын

"Neutral is where neither player is at an advantage" *shows a clip in the background where the falcon is comboing the palu offstage*

@koopagreenshell1 3 жыл бұрын

Good Stuff thanks

@peterkim8525 3 жыл бұрын

I'm basically playing Fire Emblem rebranded as smash bros at this point.

@markphillips2113 3 жыл бұрын

Nice choice in the 3rd strike themes, and of course a good, informative video.

@saiki3603 2 жыл бұрын

Thank gododness a good video that explains smash neutral

@JohnSmith-tv9ou Ай бұрын

I'm teaching coworkers to play beyond button mashing. This really helped!

@postdeath2978 3 жыл бұрын

one dabloon

@LeafysHere 2 жыл бұрын

godlike video

@HEAVENSNIGHT0 3 жыл бұрын

Peeped the sf 3rd strike music 😌👌🏿

@morgone2645 2 жыл бұрын

When overshooting you could also use things like pivot cancels and attack cancels.

@yousuckatneutral8017 2 жыл бұрын

It honestly depends on the attack used. Functionality changes a lot depending on factors like the range of the attack, safety on shield, etcetc. For example, those pivot / attack cancels might be better used for counterpoking. Hope this helped! Brian Ding

@jeedlez920 2 жыл бұрын

3:23 rip to that fucking kirby oh my god

@rosestrohm7986 2 жыл бұрын

I've always wondered if this kind of play happens even when we're not aware of it. Like does this happen with two players that are fairly new to the game and don't know what neutral is?

@yousuckatneutral8017 2 жыл бұрын

It definitely happens! They might not be intentional, but because they're just interactions that can happen in gameplay, they're always happening- Even if the players aren't aware of it. Hope this helped! Brian Ding

@jayy6306 Жыл бұрын

watching this to apply to multiversus 😂

@BIGDUCKHUNTFAN 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome guide :) what are your opinions on Pac-man? I’m trying to commit to maining him.

@CelesticRose 3 жыл бұрын

Do you have a video for playing against characters with projectiles?

@amr.a4028 3 жыл бұрын

what a fantastic way of explaining neutral, i have a question, where do u think projectiles belong to from the tgree groups of the triangle, i think it's a mix of all 3 but im not too sure. But again, super good video ! Edit: ok i found a comment asking the same q, no need to answer.

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

This triangle mostly explains footsies, projectiles are a very different dynamic. Thanks for asking!

@user-by4tj8wb1k 3 жыл бұрын

what do you mean by poking tools having cross up potential? The only one I could imagine is banjo's d-tilt

@tc3969 3 жыл бұрын

They're referring to using aerials as pokes, like Terry's f-air for example. Tilts aren't the only moves you can poke with.

@hollisshaffer1261 Жыл бұрын

Why are we not using the "three way structure?" That's such a cool name.

@BBB-pe3ip 11 ай бұрын

The problem is "reactive play" (Rock) is too strong and "over-shooting" (Paper) is too weak in Ultimate. This creates a Rock-based metagame, where Paper is only useful as an unpredictable high-risk mixup. It's much safer to play Rock, with the occasional Scissors to invalidate Paper. Most competitive players use 60% Rock (reactive play/whiff punishes), 30% Scissors (pokes) and 10% Paper (aggressive over-shooting)... and this is what we call balance. 🙃

@notSusNugget 3 жыл бұрын

self ref 2:35 triangle from poke/trap

@CookieFiend519 Жыл бұрын

How can I simulate this in training mode to improve my neutral?

@pretzelgod8972 Ай бұрын

So my bother plays Ganon and usually approaches with down b and other overshooting options. How should i use poking to beat it, especially considering it beats a lot of weaker moves?

@datwolfe3512 Жыл бұрын

I don't understand the overshooting aspect

@weaboo4444 3 жыл бұрын

At least I won’t suck at neutral anymore (:

@ChaddingAroundYT 3 жыл бұрын

Fax bro

@petersalazar9228 3 жыл бұрын

Where do Jump ins go in this triangle? Would you consider it overextending or a poke

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

It's really dependent on the character to be honest. Some characters leverage really fast fall speeds to the point where anti airing them isn't possible, and some characters are really easy to anti air since they fall so slowly.

@theiceman4494 3 жыл бұрын

So which of these works best for hero?

@yousuckatneutral8017 2 жыл бұрын

Whichever suits the situation best. Hope this helped! - Brian Ding

@kylespevak6781 2 жыл бұрын

3:51 POOB!!!!

@xdddendmelol9440 3 жыл бұрын

...you were inspired by Core A gaming wernt you? Youre using music he uses, while explaining the specifics of fighting games and presenting all sorts of facts. Anyways, love these videos dawg. Keep em coming

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

Guilty as charged haha

@ddddiegoooo 3 жыл бұрын

Instructions unclear: Switched my main to samus

@donkylefernandez4680 2 жыл бұрын

It's really hard to win at rock, paper, scissors...

@unbreakablem7130 3 жыл бұрын

if i understand any of this i get that attacking: will cause enemies to block more often blocking: will cause shield pressure or grabs grabing: not exactly wiff a grab or you will get punished counter poking with reactive play counter reactive play with overshooting counter overshotting with poking am i right about what i wrote or i missed something?

@unbreakablem7130 3 жыл бұрын

if i am right then neutral game is a double rock paper scissors?? first you pick poking reactive play or overshooting and THEN you chosse to attack block or grab holy shit

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

The interaction you're describing is more about pressure than it is about neutral. Since it describes how things will work out provided that both players are close to each other. If you can get in (overshooting), you can start your pressure and enter that pressure structure. Hope this helped! - Brian Ding

@killvoid1 3 жыл бұрын

does a long grab like luigis grab count as a poking?

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

Think of poking more like a pre-emptive action instead of just using safe attacks at certain ranges. Under this kind of definition, we can define actions like jumps and dashing in as "pre-emptive actions" So yes, Luigi's grab WOULD count as a "poke", hope this helped! - Brian Ding

@jacobs5546 11 ай бұрын

You Suck at Neutral is teaching us how to not Suck at Neatral. Yay.

@ZackTaylorFilms 3 жыл бұрын

Great and helpful video! I watched this 4 times and was really able to feel this neutral triangle when I played Ike but when I play Link it feels very different. Would things change for a projectile heavy character? Would love Link content :) thanks for the videos!

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

For projectile zoners, you'll still have triangle interactions in your neutral, but some of your interactions will also be based off of mindgaming your opponent (Which we also have a video for). Hope this helped! - Brian Ding

@ZackTaylorFilms 3 жыл бұрын

You Suck at Neutral thanks for the reply! This is the first time neutral has been explained in a way that made sense to me so I appreciate the work!

@Nintendoggy 3 жыл бұрын

As a newbie, I had a hard time understanding the terminologies.

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

My bad, what kinds of terms do you mean? We'll be sure to replace them with more understandable ones in the future.

@onomayonnaise 3 жыл бұрын

go watch BananaBoy's terminology video to better understand the words used in this one.

@Ryusuta 3 жыл бұрын

*shield

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

*sheild

@Ryusuta 3 жыл бұрын

@@yousuckatneutral8017 *shehald

@indeci5ive 3 жыл бұрын

This bugged me lol

@thenthefuture 3 жыл бұрын

*shield

@MoFiTheMagnificent 3 жыл бұрын

I was poking this player with neutral airs and dash attacks but he kept reacting to them by backing up so I tried to over shoot but his character was faster than mine so I wasn't able to accordingly. Smash is a difficult game sometime

@yousuckatneutral8017 3 жыл бұрын

Sometimes overextending doesn't necessarily mean using an attack, sometimes you gotta back them into a corner by threatening a move but not actually attacking. Hope this helps! - Brian Ding

@MoFiTheMagnificent 3 жыл бұрын

@@yousuckatneutral8017 thanks for that advice. Nevertheless, im really proud of my progress in smash. 5 years ago, I was the weakest amongst my friends but now I'm one of the top 3 but I notice that I lose to the others because of my neutral so thats why im here lol. Your video has helped a ton

@truongdang8130 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah smash is a mental game. You just need to get use to predicting and be unpredictable against your opponent. It took me awhile too to get good as i naturally play tekken, street fighter etc