Shame is a self identify that forms due to the things you mentioned. It is a core wound of "I am bad" vs I have made a bad choice, etc. It makes the person feel to their core, they aren't good enough, unworthy. Their whole sense of self comes from this wounded core. Unfortunately, when this isn't held for oneself is that a person cannot heal. It hurts. However, it is essential to bring compassion. It's very hard, because shame doesn't want to be seen. The avoidance of shame creates self sabotaging behaviors, that unfortunately perpetuate the shame core wound. To be able to tend to, look at, shame, it can be excruciatingly painful to witness...it can feel like a double bind. Why would we want to look at, sit with, such a depth of shame, we want to get away. However, the only way healing can happen, is to hold the shame wound, for our inner child. We have to show up, as no one else has before.

I’m sorry- it’s a horrible feeling. My brother and his wife and kids all have their birthday within a few weeks of each other. I went round to his house and put a huge pile of presents on his kitchen table, and looked up to see a Happy Birthday banner to their joint party that I hadn’t been invited to. I felt like such a chump.

Well said! I felt all of this. When I was describing to my therapist how I learned how to eat, drink, walk, and breathe silently, she said, “It sounds like you weren’t allowed to exist.” Dang. That’s definitely how it felt, and some part of me still carries that around.

THis is so right on. Exactly. THe problem is fully allowing oneself to go back into that space even though (and at the same time) we walk around half realizing we are in that state. There is a lot of repression involved and sometimes often there is a block to accessing the whole of it.

@@evakatz6351I’m so sorry- also keep in mind , no telling what the nature of that “party “ was - either way, you have nothing to be ashamed of, you are good kind and so generous- don’t let that go bc of hurtful even if neglectful humans

Well put

@@starlight4036 Otto F. Kernberg suggested that narcissistic disorders of character are foundation of most mental health problems. If we understand disturbances in narcissism we would probably find a theory of everything YT Richard Grannon & Prof. Sam Vaknin about Fantasy

This isn't wrong. Proverbs 18:3 (msg) says 'When wickedness arrives, shame’s not far behind;' overcoming shame means removing wickedness, aka exorcism.

@@mapsdot9223 In the macho football world you never want to act weak or look weak. So whenever I would feel fear I would be very shaming of it, “Get out of here”. After college it would all caught up to me and I would have all kinds of panic and anxiety. It works for a while but you just create more exiles. Relate to these parts like a good captain or loving parent. “It's ok to be scared and I still love you.” 🟥 IFS & Tanya: Dr. Richard Schwartz & Rabbi YY Jacobson

Wow. I recently had my first orgasm and I felt a huge burst of emotional pain come out of my heart. I’ve never given birth but that’s what it felt like physically. Like a birthing of demons

Sounds like she was projecting her own negative feelings about herself onto you. You did not deserve that.

You’re worthy. You’re enough. Your life is precious.

Projection- she had no soul with a shameless comment

@@ketherwhale6126 Perhaps. But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She likely embodies those, or at least a few, characteristics in which she hates about her mum. Likely without knowing.

@@manher4335 Yes, that’s the tricky part in all of this……seeing how we have some of these similar types of behaviors. It’s shadow work-searching for what about ourselves is hidden from view so we can heal on a deep deep level. There’s nothing like the healing of shame that comes from pulling out our own ways of dysfunction and looking straight at them. And then the deep healing comes. Unfortunately, many people get stuck in the blame game and do not progress past that.

Oh wow! My dad would so often tell me "you're so full of shit" whenever I had a different opinion or was basically doing anything he didn't agree with. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Sometimes I wonder if my chronic constipation has anything to do with it, as odd as that might sound.

​@@erinm3567 I wouldn't doubt it Erin. They say the subconscious mind (thus, the body) takes things quite literally. I had an Aha! moment in the car the day after writing this. My Father was a character much like Alex Murdaugh and he knew I saw through him from a very young age. He was "full of shit" at every turn and basically projecting/confessing to his very young daughter. My Mom was like Maggie Murdaugh - loved $$$, status and image. My Dad almost killed us all when I was nine and all that proverbial shit hit the fan. Luckily, he collapsed before going through with it. (I messed up his plan by wrangling away and going for help.). Watching the Murdaughs has brought so much to the surface lately. God bless us all 🙏✝️❤️

me too I've been getting the 'you're too sensitive' treatment from my mother for as long as I can remember. often told off for crying, and often asked if I was made out of crystal (nothing could be said or done to me without breaking me).

We sounds like siblings!

@@thanksagainforthetea Great analysis and explains why when I tried to achieve a closer bond with my Mother in healthy ways she would deny me that and say "Well, MY Mother never..." I would "shutty-shutty" (as Lisa A. Romano puts it) because there was no need to try to reason with her, like..."That sounds quite painful, wouldn't you like for us to have things better than that?" It all falls on intentionally deaf ears. Mommy Dearest always knows best! And, that's the point!! Forget doing what's right, what's best, what makes more sense - and you can MOST definitelly forget what brings more joy!!!

Hey GoldandPinkLight, Seth here with Team Lyon. That's so awesome!! Really great to hear :) If you would like support in what next steps to take on that journey, this page might be useful... irenelyon.com/new-here

@@IreneLyon Hi Seth! Thank you. Doing 21 day now and looking ahead to SBSM in the fall. Many thanks to you and Irene. 💜

wow - i read your comment and was like "i dont remember commenting on this video"

20 years of chronic fatigue syndrom? I'm so sorry to hear that! I wish you full and complete healing from every physical and psychological and a mix there of issue.

I can SOO RELATE!! Been on the Journey for 57 years! And my Journey starts Now. And now... And NOW!! Disgust = The thing my mother did that sticks with me the most. She'd say my name in such a way I almost committed suicide over not being able to get that voice out of my head. Such Disgust. This is intense!

Great comment my dude.

I have known I have shame for a very long time and yet I’ve never healed it. I don’t know how you did it?? I know I have shame and I feel it every day but nothing changes?

So how did you work out posture issues ? I have always struggled with them

Hi all! Here is the main video that helped me manage / handle shame attacks or the overwhelming feelings that come with it: "Self Compassion: An Antidote For Shame" by Christopher Germer I want to add: I haven't gotten rid of shame, but rather changed my relationship to it and am guiding my body to get used to this safer, new relationship with it. That said, with this new relationship, I tend to slowly feel shame less often and less intensely, but when I first started, it hit me really hard. So don't beat yourself up if things get worse before they get better. ⚫️ For posture I do slow workouts that don't increase cortisol: pilates, slow controlled neck/shoulder movements and walks outside. I take a walk outside everyday. I highly recommended walking outside as much as possible. Nature offers an external peace when the internal is chaos. ⚫️ MY OWN PERSONAL TIPS BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE: - form a set of values about humans: all humans deserve food, community, love, shelter, and to be held accountable with self compassion. These are a few of mine. Now that you have them, use these values to guide your actions. If the feeling of shame comes up and symptoms of it like physical pain, ruminating, dissociating occurr. Name the feeling. Do the activity then act only in your values. Know that logically you are not the exception like that logically makes no sense for you to be the one human exempt from said values. It's tough, but you all got it.

Thanks so much for being here Lisa

holy shit i wasnt the only one????

If I had a superpower, it would be invisibility. If no one can see you, they can't attack you.

Yep

Wow I could of written that Op.

@@pamelamccarthy1412that's a trauma driven wish. That's an inner child crying out. Humans want to be seen/known/understood/accepted. This is what love is Think of a wish that can reach beyond the trauma wish. Otherwise, if your trauma is running the show, your wishes included...the power is given to your trauma, and those who hurt you. You hurt yourself, by living those ways do thinking out. When you can heal beyond that, it's powerful.

wow "not deserving to receive nice things." this resonated with me deeply as I experienced very similar things and now I can clearly see how it is correlated to my relationship with money. thank you for sharing!

I love “remember what I did for you” and it’s ONE thing they did for you over 20 years ago. Normal things like hosting a baby shower for you. The scoreboard comes out.The guilting never stops.

@@KM-nd6wjsadly I found myself guilting out my daughter. I have no idea where to bring to heal that relationship. I thought I was a protective and loving mother. I have since found out that I was not good enough in many ways. Best of luck

Yes...How dare you/ who do you think you are/ horrible pronouncements made to me as well.🥺

Thanks so much for sharing Berlinetta! The lifeforce is strong in you!! Keep rockin it.

Well said!!!

Been there too. That seems to be the way.

Hi Dana, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, the behaviors resulting from toxic shame can take a toll for sure, I am familiar with that myself. Thankfully, the human body is very resilient and can recover from a lot when it has the right support! If you feel this work, along with any lifestyle and dietary changes could be helpful, it could be useful to check out Irene's free resources and online programs... irenelyon.com/new-here/

Ok but what are you doing TODAY??? RIGHT NOW is the only thing that matters🥰🥰

You’ve identified self trashing behaviour so now you can stop it and investigate and heal. Well done

No matter what you have done to tear your body down I promise you can start building it back up. Whatever you did in the past doesn't matter anymore. The only thing that matters is TODAY🥰 ( I used meth and heroin for 30 yrs)

Don't include "pot" in your list of vices, just quit the rest

Hi Jenova, Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm so sorry to hear you had to live through that. Thanks for sharing your story here. If you feel that this work may be able to help you in some way, I recommend checking out our New Here page and downloading the Field Guide there. irenelyon.com/new-here/

So sorry you had to go through that as a little one 😢 Hoping you have found some (or a lot already 😊) self worth back again. Sending you much love ❤❤

How you were treated was so unacceptable. I was bullied as well, but as a pasty white kid, they found other things to hate about me. I was ugly, flat chested, a whore (5th grade whore? really?). I got kicked in the shins, punched in the head and tummy. I never told anyone. I am just now coming to terms with these painful memories at the age of 50. I wish we would include how to appreciate each others differences in kindergarten, it should be part of the curriculum. All colors and all income level children should be safe at school from each other and from teachers. You never deserved any of this.

That's sad. If that racism was so prevelant in the school, how did your parents avoid it in the town?

@@smegmatic308 They probably experienced the same amount of hate or even worse and we’re so traumatized and overwhelmed by their own struggles that they diminished and neglected their children’s cries for help because they can’t even protect themselves let alone their children. That’s a tough pill to swallow as a parent. Not feeling able to protect your child, so you can’t guide your child, which is your role as a parent. Very easy for emotionally unintelligent parents dealing with that environment to crack under pressure & neglect their kids or use them as emotional or physical punching bags. Same way generations can be victim to narcissistic abuse and commit that same abuse/neglect to the next generation. Racial trauma can and is passed down through internalized racism/ neglect of guidance through racist experiences. Hope this helped🫶🏽

Thanks for sharing your struggles. Gabor mate has also lot of useful stuff on childhood trauma and behavior. It's a super tough journey and can be lonely. I just started diving deep and can see from early age I developed an anxious avoidant attachment style to survive plus other strategies. So I did't fully trust anybody the last 45 years, was in an alert state and has developed a chronic illness. Much work to do , I hope you find the help and support you need🙏

💜

@@larsstougaard7097 I'm through the worst pain now, still no family, but only a magic wand can fix that!

You do not need to try to get back into that family. They are absolutely nuts. You need to run and STAY as far away as you can. Find genuine people to can see who and what you really are. But most importantly, make sure YOU can see who and what you really are!! You don't have to be a perfect person and even in all the good and bad you are worthy!

@@SusanaXpeace2u sending you good energy 🪄✨️✨️✨️

Some delusional people can't be shamed. Sad but true.

@@thunderpooch That's true. My comment did not mean to attempt to make those people feel shame because, you're right, they can't. We can only make OURSELVES feel less of the shame they put upon us by diverting it back to them, but only IN OUR OWN MIND/HEART.

I kind of feel like they gave me a permanent emotional disability for life and all these youtube videos and therapy sessions are just giving me false hope. Like imagine how cruel it would be to tell a paraplegic they will walk again if they just think enough positive thoughts. The narcissists took something from me that I will never get back. That doesn't just go away or fade with time or healing. It's just gone. Imagine how cruel it would be to tell a child who lost their leg in an accident that with enough self love and self care their leg will grow back good as new and stronger than ever. Imagine how terrible that child would feel thinking they're not doing a good enough job when they never grow their leg back no matter how hard they devote themselves rigorously to all the false hope recommendations of self care journey stuff. Every day they wake up feeling like a failure seeing the same painful leg stump. Instead of doing the kinder thing helping the child face the reality that he will never feel whole again like the other kids because that is the reality but no one wants to be burdened with the task of helping him face the truth that he is just not going to have the same kind of life as others. That's how I feel watching narcissistic abuse recovery videos and going to therapy. There is no getting better. There is no feeling better. Don't you guys get it yet? This is it right here. Like there is no upside to this. Stop trying to make this some sort of spiritual enlightenment path to nirvana. We are glorifying the process of being abused as if it's something that will lead to some sort of ultimate karmic retribution by liviour best life and forgiving the unforgivable "for ourselves not for them"🙄and all that same nonsense. There IS NO KARMIC RETRIBUTION! DON'T YOU GET IT YET? THEY WON. Take the L!!! We got screwed over big time and they did outsmart us. Come on already people stop with the empath labels like we're some sort of mystical beings on some magical Hero's Journey that are special enough to be abused for so long and remain ever compassionate and loving. Narcissists are scammers, WE FELL FOR IT, END OF STORY. There's nothing special in us that the narcissist saw. They saw us like a pawn shop owner would see a new object to trade and sell like a commodity. They could care less about our empathy. Ugh. The universe doesn't give a sh*t about your empathy and how many times we get conned by psychopaths that appeal to our egos. There's no cosmic reward for your codependent martyrdom. You can stay or leave, live or die an untimely tragic death, be empathetic or apathetic, loving or hateful, either way it does not affect the narcissist or make them sad or sorry for hurting you. There's no timer that goes off at 30 years of abuse where the universe is like, "Sherry, eh, you know what she's put up with a lot of crap for long enough, let's reward her modest humble approach to life getting beaten down by the narcissists we placed in her path to test her character and integrity by seeing how she reacted to getting betrayed by everyone we set her up in advance to be lead to believe she was supposed to be able to trust! Guess what Sherry you passed! Here's your reward and now everything will finally be okay! Um no that's not reality😐.

Yeah some people are just control freaks who want that over you. No one knows what they're doing, so when you do the *wrong* thing it's under a microscope. It's gross, but their obsession is not your responsibility, our responsibility is to "do the work" so we don't feel like we'll ever be compelled to let our actions define us or harm others.

@@PassionateFlower - You know, I was just wondering the same thing the other day. Unraveling the effects of toxic shame might be lifelong. If I may share my story a bit here with you: When many years ago I found some trustworthy people who were more mature overall I decided to entrust them with some of the dirty laundry ( toxic shame ) I endured. Their compassion, empathy, prayer, hugs, counsel were profoundly helpful and hopeful. Some therapy helped. Conscious decisions to begin to not tolerate disrespect helped. Reading "Boundaries" ( Cloud/Townsend) was life-transforming. Holding myself accountable in any way / shape / form "I" was using any bitterness to mentally "get back at" my past enemies was also powerfully helpful and freeing. Hope my story helps encourage you. I get where you're coming from and believe there is progress and healing to be had, though it can take longer than our quick-fix culture allows. Peace and Grace to you.

Call her

Regognisable.. I was eventually able to sincerely look at myself with compassion and accept the situation as well as my part in it. Life isn't perfect and neither are we.. I hope you can find the same compassion and acceptance 🍀

Thanks so much for sharing Susan. I'm so glad you have been able to heal!

Linda Tshappat, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'm really sorry to hear that you weren't heard and supported when you were in pain as a kid. Your question about the connection between your arthritis and the toxic environment is an interesting one. We do find that we can tend to hold a lot to it in the bones when we have early trauma (if you think of an infant in utero and after birth they don't have much other tissue), so it sure sounds like a possibility. It's great that you found your way here, and are learning about this work as it can benefit us at any age.

@@IreneLyon thanks for your response!

Hi Bonnie, Seth here with Team Lyon. Sorry to hear that! Yes, those imprints can last for so long and affect us so deeply. The good news - we can heal! This work can help. If you feel drawn to exploring it I recommend starting here... irenelyon.com/new-here/

@@IreneLyon Thanks! I'll take al look.

My panic attacks are when men question my existence one dude in motorcycle class got upset I wasn't younger and had kids like I was all kinds of f up it was so anxiety inducing I couldn't do a thing except want too fight dude the whole x wasted alot of money cuz dude kept telling me too grow up like mf I'm grown and it just every time I'd say do anything it was mocking me no job no school just empty he'd say like this loser ...me and I was like dude I'm just wanting too ride it was pathetic dropping the bike flipping the bike almost just f that class I aced my other class people are well people I hope that dude gets road rash for ego points cuz I'm immature.

Hi zenman52, Jen here from Team Lyon. It sounds like you have a lot of experience learning about and working with shame, and toxic shame. I want to differentiate here in the nervous system work we view many experiences through the lends of physiologic response, and less so through the lends of primary and secondary emotion. Looking through the lends of physiology, we do find that disgust is it's own response, separate and distinct from shame (both healthy and toxic).

You are extremely courageous to face this with such awareness. Sending you tons of love on your journey 🤍🤍🤍✨

@@Flowergirl222 thank you for those kind words. 💕💕

What a horrifying experience.. holding space for your healing, holding space for your inner child to be loved. Just want to give you a big hug!💛

I had the same experience this year

Hugs, going thru what seems similar

My brother used to call me disgusting all the time, with a dramatic tone also, and a face full of disgust. Disgusting and ugly

Yes, I often see people talk about how people doubt themselves when treated like this, but I've never had this problem. I was always strong in my conviction that I was not inferior. But that does not in the slightest decrease the mental anguish caused by being treated as if you were

@@MariamHafez89 its so crazy 😵‍💫😮‍💨

@@DaveGrean yes, exactly 😶

I think we need "disgust" tbh, we just don't need to internalize it

When we feel disgust towards someone it is important to allow ourselves to feel it, realise the feeling is there because it is letting us know not to trust this person. As a child that is terrifying as we have no control over the situation, as an adult we can choose to step out of the relationship or go low contact to create space to work on healing from our past and focus on becoming our future self.

When the feeling comes allow it. Give it awareness.

Great! thanks for being here Julia :)

I don't know about forgiving but you should be disgusted with her

@@uyoebyikI didn’t see your comment and this was literally my first thought.

@@uyoebyik, forgiveness is a technical term that has a clear definition or two. It means that you accept the current situation as it is. Opposed to ruminating on "this can't have happened, I reject this reality". It has nothing to do with warm fuzzies or a god complex. Past events never become untrue, but the abusive person either has done reparations and taken ownership or not.

Also, you should never try to go out of your way to feel disgust for her. Either facts warrant it or not, but it's not a good emotion to carry around. Evil is best forgotten.

@@seriouscat2231 ok well in that case I have forgiven because I do accept the reality

Yep

Jorie, Jen here from Team Lyon. It's great to hear that you found this helpful. I am sorry to hear that you had so much toxic shame projected onto you, both recently and when you were young. It's inspiring to hear about the work you're doing and the changes you're creating for yourself. If you want to learn more about Irene's resources, you might check out here New Here page: irenelyon.com/new-here/

Hi Flawesome Synefin. Seth here with Team Lyon. This can be confusing because when we are holding unresolved toxic shame in our system, this can produce lots of emotions, like sadness, jealousy, even self-hatred. However, when we are in contact with that toxic shame directly, it is much more of a raw, visceral cluster of sensations. It's kinda the same as the fact that being punched in the gut is not an emotion - we may have emotions about being punched in the gut, but the impact into the viscera itself, even though it is felt in the body, is not really an emotion.

😢😢 big hugs ❤️

relatable

very relatable ive been diagnosed since i was a kid and i stil struggle with this

Yep. I’m 43 and figuring all this out now

same, plus psychedelics permanently damage some people and they don't come back to their full selves and have flashbacks for the rest of their lives

Wow. 🙏🙏🙏

Exactly wow.