Is CGC Wrong About Cover Whitening? They Make The Rules

Is CGC Wrong About Cover Whitening? They Make The Rules - Comic Presser Weighs In

Рет қаралды 9,952

5 ай бұрын

In this video I share a clip from my next episode of SWAGGLECAST where I talk to Comic Presser about all things comic book cleaning. This particular session we talk about some of the new cover whitening techniques that have been happening in our industry and ask why CGC has given some of them purple labels (they shouldn't be) and also when CGC determines is something is "amateur" vs. "Professional".
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Пікірлер: 111

@Swagglehaus 5 ай бұрын

Full Podcast - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/icp3hKSQns7dhGw.htmlsi=j5lpubi9KvB6TJ4x

@zachbrobst9473 5 ай бұрын

I think purple labels are underrated. Slashing the price in half because there's a little pen on the cover is bananas to me

@200percenthealth 5 ай бұрын

I look at it this way. If a stain can be added and it hurts the grade, i dont see a problem with being able to remove a stain and helping the grade. Barry probably doesnt remember me but i helped him at his booth at the first or second year of The Atlanta Comic Con years ago. His wife and him are super nice people and knowledgeable about comics.

@6nosis 5 ай бұрын

Why wouldn't he remember you is Barry going senile?

@200percenthealth 5 ай бұрын

@6nosis it was at least 6 or 7 years ago. I'm sure if he saw my face he would remember me. His wife gave me a bottle of wine when we were done, I still have it since I don't drink alcohol hehe

@200percenthealth 5 ай бұрын

Sadly I lost my phone that had his phone number in it and just lost touch with him

@BramRocks 5 ай бұрын

This is a fantastic and logical argument - well said!

@AmedeeBoulette 5 ай бұрын

Those whitened books are popping!!! Looks fantastic….

@FrogBrawler 5 ай бұрын

Swag, once again it’s a scenario of language used by CGC. “Detectable” is the keyword they use, the devil is in the details. 2 rounds of HOP followed by 1 round of distilled water isn’t “detectable.” I made a video outlining the process about a month ago.

@beowulf1563 5 ай бұрын

I always thought cleaning and pressing a comic book is technically restoring but I personally don't believe it should get a purple label unless it's had something added to it like new Staples or married paper.

@johnnydropkicks 5 ай бұрын

I agree. The actual definition for comic restoration states that it’s occurs if something is “added” to a comic; not taken away.

@celineruffino9820 5 ай бұрын

It’s not “technically restoring” this myth needs to end.

@CharlesCharles-bb6qx 5 ай бұрын

@@celineruffino9820 Agree. Is washing dirt off a coin "restoring" it? Of course not.

@repique10 5 ай бұрын

Also CGC are not the Gods of Comics, it’s us who have given CGC this ‘Power’ of dictating whats what with the Hobby. At the end of the day you have complete strangers looking at your book and giving it a grade.

@aftacomics5865 5 ай бұрын

Couldn't have said it better myself!

@lexluthor8888 5 ай бұрын

CGC can set whatever rules they want. If you don't want to follow their rules, don't use their service. There are many others who do use CGC and accept the rules as they are stated.

@Supertomscustoms 5 ай бұрын

@@lexluthor8888it’s when they change the rules and negate decades of standards, or when they offer little to no explanation as to why something is or isn’t a specific grade that’s a problem.

@wardallen1941 5 ай бұрын

I received a restored label for ‘cover cleaned’. No chemicals or anything used - just dirt wiped off - CGC is lost. They couldn’t explain it either.

@uglyewok6715 5 ай бұрын

It’s easy to tell if it has been whitened…a book of a certain age should never be bone white…that is restoration.

@justplainoltex4991 5 ай бұрын

"... a purist NOTION, in a NICHE market, with IRRATIONAL value swings..." is th most eloquent crystallization and articulation of th reason why I don't do slabs. CGC could fix that, but as long as they got all you nerds by th balls, they ain't doin sheet. Keep givin em yer money... and keep gettin effed.

@aftacomics5865 5 ай бұрын

You nailed it!

@scottabraham1234 5 ай бұрын

I think he was referring to those buying Mark Jewellers

@justplainoltex4991 5 ай бұрын

@@scottabraham1234 Hmm, OK maybe. Either way it's still an apt description of grading in general, and more specifically, slabbing.

@holyharlot5222 5 ай бұрын

Whether or not it effects grade or value, whitening should be disclosed to a buyer IMO I would want to know. CGC is not a comic book collector, and has no meaningful voice in the discussion. Their policies span the gamut from dated to ridiculous and no one trusts them to make the right call.

@tradepaperdad8858 5 ай бұрын

I finally understand the difference between conservation labels and restoration labels. Thank you so much!!

@MrPelletty 5 ай бұрын

If a cleaning method alters a book from the created format it is restoration. Erasing too much to the point of removing gloss or color should be restoration. Using Lights or peroxide to fade the color too dim than the ink is supposed to appear should be restoration. Doing these methods properly to where the final book is an undetectably cleaned is not restoration. Non restorative methods should only be effecting the things that have been added to the book after production. When you compare two identical books side by side in similar grade it is much easier to see why over lightening a book should be restoration.

@FrogBrawler 5 ай бұрын

Bingo!

@leveragecomics5067 5 ай бұрын

Great insight!!

@ericwilliams1845 5 ай бұрын

Not a fan. Pressing and dry cleaning paper is like giving a wrinkly dirty shirt a wash. You can get an improved garment after. This the guy even said brings out different more vibrant colours ie better than original which is a problem. It’s enhancement and currently I’m not on board

@bcm3938 5 ай бұрын

With the exception of that red on the GX1

@crossbronxcollectibles9127 5 ай бұрын

Thanks! The video was ver informative

@eggplantcomics8336 5 ай бұрын

Great video, was this part of a larger stream?

@Dark_Vengeance 5 ай бұрын

A response to many of my comments about cgc grading and “restoration “ rules….thank you!

@nighttigercomics7323 5 ай бұрын

Thank you for the last observation. Grade books are nothing more than glorified trading cards. I laugh when collections get all excited about white pages when they will never ever see them 😅!

@aftacomics5865 5 ай бұрын

Good point! Never thought of that?

@nighttigercomics7323 5 ай бұрын

@aftacomics5865 it was Bubs Comics who came up with the glorified trading cards line but it makes sense.

@spinnerrackstudios 5 ай бұрын

@@aftacomics5865 You and Nighttiger are a couple of fossils who don't know nothing! You should send all you books in and have them graded. No need to read them, they were meant for 12 year olds! Also, by having graded books, you can use a heat gun, pop the case open, replace your 9.8 Hulk #181 (second appearance of Wolverine) with a 9.2 qualified copy missing the MVS, and then pawn it off on an unexpecting collector! You can make a lot of money!

@brandonmetro7115 5 ай бұрын

I like the analogies the guest utilizes.

@leeniren3706 4 ай бұрын

Very well explained

@pamvarner8044 5 ай бұрын

This hobby makes me smh sometimes. Adding dirt, coffee stains, snot and spaghetti-ohs sauce to a comic is ok, but taking them away to improve the beauty is bad. But also don’t have any of the aforementioned defects, because that’s bad too.

@jstruss1 5 ай бұрын

great video!

@bjnowak 5 ай бұрын

Same thing happened to be on an asm 41. Was a 7.5 cleaned it, then came back a 7.0 restored- back cover too white.

@rthstn 5 ай бұрын

Great interview! Just amazing work and I agree the insert that you can’t get to are irrelevant for me personally. Buy the book not the grade

@BruceLee-bk8dy 5 ай бұрын

Great vi

@ericwilliams1845 5 ай бұрын

Plus pressing and dry cleaning has been around for 15 years plus and I’ve yet to see negative results. If this treatment can prove no negative effects on a comic after 15+ years then maybe people will be more on board.

@leerogers5318 5 ай бұрын

Anything done to improve a comic's condition is considered restoration by definition. However, I find it perplexing why certain actions are labeled as restoration by CBCS and CGC, while others are not. The widespread practice of pressing comics is widely accepted, yet some actions, like extreme lightening without causing damage, are deemed restoration by the slabbing companies. In the end, it seems that those in possession of the authority set the rules. Personally, I'm frustrated with this situation and find it all a bunch of BS!

@bennettbennettsb 5 ай бұрын

I clean and press and whiten pages and do stain removal and I have only ever gotten blue labels back cgc can never tell

@mestizo3113 5 ай бұрын

By definition, shouldn't pressing be considered restoration as well?

@jeffloaisiga 5 ай бұрын

Barry is the best, highly recommend!!

@jeanmalo7173 5 ай бұрын

Wow, I didn't know that grading could be so complicated/involved, thanks for sharing and stay safe!

@rmrtnzstn 5 ай бұрын

Interesting. I personally think that some of those look 'too light' for my desire, want or need. A dollar bill thru the washer. I would rather buy a comics that is closer to the original colors, even fading and wear due to age. I don't buy too many that are very stained either. Have a good day.

@Mskedu47 5 ай бұрын

Some of these books look bleached and lost the vibrant colors, what a grift

@Eyrrll 5 ай бұрын

I guess it’s a matter of personal taste. I have seen bleached examples that look much better and I have seen some that looked far worse.

@johnnydropkicks 5 ай бұрын

You can only logically compare examples in which photos of the book were taken in the same place with the same lighting. If one image is a photo taken at home and the other is a scan that CGC took of a slabbed comic; that is like comparing apples to oranges.

@Jmillz181 5 ай бұрын

I prefer the old look for the older books. The shiny white just doesn't fit.

@philipfletcher4867 19 күн бұрын

I think the 3rd party graders should ask professionals what makes a comic restored or conservered. And use the professional guide for that. I do think that the word natural works, but it is subjective to the grader. That the graders view point is where all the ? marks come in. If a professional restorer says it is restored or conserved then that should be the standard. If it is truly super white than it could be considered not natural. As for cleaning the appeal is different than what it might be for say cleaning your automobile before you sell it. Obviously a clean car is more appealing than a dirty car. But, it does not ever lower the value because you cleaned it. Nor does a paint job lower the value on most autos. That's why there should be a guide as to what makes a comic book unnatural or restored/ conserved.

@danielmarquez4935 5 ай бұрын

Comment 🚀🚀🚀 I don’t get how they come up with their rules … not fair sometimes

@Jammer2727 5 ай бұрын

I see with the lightening blues and reds get less bright

@ssettle 5 ай бұрын

Not sure I like how much it dulls the original reds.

@rocketfighter8 5 ай бұрын

What is CBCS's take on this? If another grading company came into existence and deemed it isn't restoration would any of you send your whitened books to them instead?

@chrishinkle1764 5 ай бұрын

How can removing dirt be a bad thing?

@oliverortiz8507 5 ай бұрын

I don't see cleaning a stained comic has anything negative. Getting the cover or interiors close to the original clean look when it was first published is a good thing for the seller and the buyer and the collecting community.

@pkeel7576 5 ай бұрын

Books not having tattoos inside getting a green label is a scam. You don’t see non key books that came out the same time get a green label w/o them 100% manufactured scarcity

@americankiwi3528 5 ай бұрын

The 2nd example with the DD #1 confirms my position: Whitening is misleading, it is worse than true "restoration". The "tan as a biscuit comic" still has the paper longevity of a tan comic (meaning not near as long as a properly preserved white comic) yet, by making the paper white, many will be duped into thinking the paper quality and integrity is that of a comic that has never aged to the tan state.

@judesjunkcomics3283 5 ай бұрын

I see his website but what is his youtube hannel and FB page?

@dandelatorre1870 5 ай бұрын

Does this whitening process affect the paper in any way? Does it make it more dry/brittle for example?

@FrogBrawler 5 ай бұрын

@lennyserna2904 5 ай бұрын

It can

@FrogBrawler 5 ай бұрын

@@lennyserna2904 Valid point, if it's done wrong it can.

@davidsamuelson2089 5 ай бұрын

Jeweler inserts, coupons & intact pages make for a more scarce comic, not an artificial thing; collectors seek rarity. This guy really gaslights a lot of things.

@breakbeatz309 5 ай бұрын

Sun fading isn’t restoration.

@Jammer2727 5 ай бұрын

Its degradation

@FireflyComics 5 ай бұрын

If you remove restoration. . . Is that restoration? I think reality just imploded

@ThatDamnSilva 5 ай бұрын

"A" grade absolutely exists as a purple label. I own one and it's not the first one that I've owned

@gregoryliedtka7510 5 ай бұрын

Very interesting, great details. I've been thinking about using their services once I'm ready to submit 10 silver age books for my PC.

@jonr269 4 ай бұрын

As a presser/Cleaner myself who does use whitening techniques to remove stains and tanning. I do think its stupid when CGC hits comics with the Purple label saying Cover cleaned. To me thats totally stupid since your literally removing all the junk that ltierally ruins the book and will damage it over time. Now i understand if your actually adding stuff to the book or using strong chemicals that leave residue behind on the book that can be detected. But to say on you whitened the book to much lets slap it with a purple label cause someone cleaned up a 80 year old book is stupid when they basically do the same thing. But sadly in the end its all about money to CGC and until they change the rules which is dumb in itself that they made we have to deal with it. Also just for clarification how dumb their rules are and their inability to be consistent with said whitening rules. Ive have 2-3 books ive done for clients whos book i whitened get a purple label and were nearly as white as this guys books. I re-cracked them and resubmitted them just for them to come back with a blue label afterwards. So again zero standards for them really say when a book should get a purple and when it shouldnt for being cleaned.

@decojoker1 5 ай бұрын

Hey.....how did my moms pantyhose get in all this. Leave her out of things. she hated comics to boot.

@BramRocks 5 ай бұрын

Bahahaha

@Stackitupmetal 5 ай бұрын

10:19 nah it does mean something.. means book is intact

@6nosis 5 ай бұрын

And RARITY of course? Right? "Is the whole world talking crazy pills?!" Me: "what chue talkin bout Willis?!" Also me: "keep the color of ma mama panty hose- OUT YA DAMN MOUF!"

@sade281 5 ай бұрын

Yooooo Barry can sell ice to a snow man😂😂😂 sounds fishy but the books look better !! So he back take my books any day 😮😮😮

@mikekennedy9777 5 ай бұрын

I can personally vouch for the amazing work that Barry does. He did several books for me about a year ago. I actually met with him at his office and he gave me a thorough rundown of what he could do and I hand delivered my books after my consultation. Barry did Deep cleaning and major pressing of some really poor books. All came back in incredible shape and with blue labels. I highly recommend his services.

@michaelpiliero4202 5 ай бұрын

Could you give me Barry contact number please thank you

@dandelatorre1870 5 ай бұрын

Overall he’s not wrong about his opinions.

@milskillz123 5 ай бұрын

CGC can give you a conserved grade which is the gray label.

@Rhythmicons 5 ай бұрын

Academic conservation is superior anyway.

@SilverGoldComics 5 ай бұрын

Whitening is restoring and should be noted, or if raw, disclosed to buyers. Part of the value of older comics is how they've "weathered" the decades. If someone can take a comic that has had a hard life, and spruces it up with chemicals, or whatever is used for whitening, it devalues the whole comic value system. Should a 9.8 white page cover that has been whitened have the same value as the same book that somehow was stored in a way to preserve it's whiteness naturally? To me, the first is preserved at best, and deceitful if not disclosed, while the natural comic is truly the rare collectible that the value was based on.

@andrewdiez1706 5 ай бұрын

Everyone knows how to switch books into slabs by now with all these how to you tube videos. Cgc is pretty much in the grave for me. Fact is all of their guaranteed slabs can be compromised. All of them! Now they will probably come out with a new case. Maybe. Making all old slabs less valuable and untrustworthy unless re holstered. Also 5 dollar book in same case as one million dollar book!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 wtf!!

@scottabraham1234 5 ай бұрын

The $5 book getting the same case as the one million has always seemed wrong to me.

@andrewdiez1706 5 ай бұрын

Simple solution. Golden age case silver age case, bronze. But those cheap money vampires won’t do it.

@jaremypyle6314 5 ай бұрын

I have a major Batman golden age book with Barry right now after finding strong recommendation for his services. Hoping for amazing results. :)

@jabezcreed 5 ай бұрын

I don't think collectors should worry about conservation or restoration on certain types of books. I personally am not going to bleach or wet clean my book, but some books have spots that can be cleaned. If someone wants to, by all means clean the book. And then let the buyer know it was cleaned up.

@repique10 5 ай бұрын

Technically you’re restoring the book back to its original state. All cleaning and pressing should be deemed restored.

@bean6344 5 ай бұрын

Yup.

@lennyserna2904 5 ай бұрын

The technique that he's explaining has been giving people conservative label.....

@DocReasonable 5 ай бұрын

'Restore' means 'bringing it back to its original state'. Colour touches and gluing torn spines is NOT accomplishing this, so it needs to stop being called 'restoration'. Whitening a book IS restoration but in a good, pure way that should not even be detectable.

@tonyhiland-js4dt 5 ай бұрын

anything used to manufacture the "new" condition of the book is restoration. cleaning, pressing, whitening all of it. you are taking things to present the book as unmolested from the printing press as if it was straight off the news stand. older books in particular. did you get a 5.0 grade on the book?...what restoration did you do to try to bump the grade up? its gotten out of hand. it started off as the classic color touch, trimming, tear seals using erasers and has shifted to things like this. "restoration is adding things to the book".. no. restoration is doing anything that takes the book in its original format and changing it to be better or more presentable than it was. if someone presents the book as if it has had nothing done to it and it in fact has had anything manufacturing a new condition then its restoration. but cgc and cbcs promotes pressing and cleaning and everybody gobbles that up. if the grading companies start to lose money then they will accept any form of whatever type of manufacturing of condition of the book that gets them sales. they may be against the light bleaching because it plays with their pocket book. not as many people will use cleaning services as a result if they can use the lighting techniques. this is crazy and sad at the same time.

@spinnerrackstudios 5 ай бұрын

Personally, I averted my eyes when I saw my Mom's pantyhose. So I wouldn't know about the color.

@ers5072 5 ай бұрын

After this latest CGC scandal, CGC deserves nothing but distrust and ridicule. Yet commodities traders (anybody who slabs a book is a commodity trader and not a collector) are still willing to give CGC complete power over the hobby. I personally think CGC has known how easy it was to switch books for quite some time and hoped collectors would not figure it out. Your slabbed books are no longer legitimate people. Deal with it!

@rocketfighter8 5 ай бұрын

If I buy a raw comic as an investment without slabbing it and sell at a profit later wouldn't that also fall under your definition of a commodities trader?

@ers5072 5 ай бұрын

If you buy comics as investments (always a bad idea and an amateur investment move) then you are a commodities trader regardless if the book is raw or slabbed.@@rocketfighter8

@davidsamuelson2089 5 ай бұрын

Stop comparing people obviously restoring/conserving/dry cleaning comic books to artificially increase their value the same weight as cleaning renaissance masters’ art.