Is DLSS Really "Better Than Native"? - 24 Game Comparison, DLSS 2 vs FSR 2 vs Native

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Hardware Unboxed

Hardware Unboxed

Күн бұрын

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Video Index:
00:00 - Welcome to Hardware Unboxed
04:51 - Spider-Man
06:46 - The Last of Us Part I
09:02 - Dead Space
10:34 - Dying Light 2
11:38 - Hogwarts Legacy
12:39 - God of War
13:25 - Hitman 3
14:52 - Death Stranding Director's Cut
15:37 - 26 Game Summary
18:40 - Final Thoughts
Is DLSS Really "Better Than Native"? - 24 Game Comparison, DLSS 2 vs FSR 2 vs Native
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Пікірлер: 1 400
@vernacular3289
@vernacular3289 Жыл бұрын
This is really a test of bad anti-alias has become in games. So much that resolution scaling becomes the only means of avoiding shimmering jaggies.
@quantumsage4008
@quantumsage4008 Жыл бұрын
havent played that many modern games recently but good lord war thunder has a really bad problem with anti aliasing. Its so bad, SSAA is mandatory. Even with that, theres so much noise you will have a real hard time spotting enemies. TAA helps too but certain texture still blinks though its not as bad as it was previously. You have to sacrifice so much performance
@CC-vv2ne
@CC-vv2ne Жыл бұрын
@@quantumsage4008 TAA is worst thing to happen to games, every single TAA implementation makes images noticebly blurry
@Dyils
@Dyils Жыл бұрын
@@CC-vv2ne So add sharpness, what's the issue? You seen TAA in R6 with a bit of sharpness (right under the TAA)? It looks CRYSTAL CRISP. It's AMAZING. I wish all games had such good anti-aliasing and sharpness.
@jeanmartin7166
@jeanmartin7166 Жыл бұрын
@@Dyils Ubisoft is usually among the best technically. It would be like saying DX12 has not been a severe issue because WD Legion managed to make dx12 running better than dx11. TAA is usually badly implemented, R6 isn't a proof that most games could achieve the same thing.
@DanielOfRussia
@DanielOfRussia Жыл бұрын
@@CC-vv2ne FH5 is the one example I can think of where TAA looks way better than even MSAA. But it is more of an outlier
@zenpool
@zenpool Жыл бұрын
This gets interesting when some game devs enable DLSS as an antialiasing solution (DLAA) while retaining the native render resolution.
@LuchsYT
@LuchsYT Жыл бұрын
The Finals enabled DLAA for its beta and it looked incredible
@lexsanderz
@lexsanderz Жыл бұрын
don't wait for developers to learn the nvidia sdk. Instead you can use the project dlss tweaks to enable DLAA into any game with the nvidia dll.
@winebartender6653
@winebartender6653 Жыл бұрын
Yup, dlaa looks really really good with native (what I use with Hogwarts legacy )with a 27" 1440p monitor. I found dlss quality looks quite bad in Hogwarts, noticeably softer and blurrier, especially indoors. I did not realize it was possible to enable on your own for any game with dlss, will have to try that in other games.
@SweatyFeetGirl
@SweatyFeetGirl Жыл бұрын
Dlaa looks absolutely horrible to me...
@znoozaros
@znoozaros Жыл бұрын
@@SweatyFeetGirl Too soft on lower resolutions, unlike msaa which works great
@noliferxd
@noliferxd Жыл бұрын
Guys, I'm shocked by the scale of the work done. Thanks a lot. I would also like to see a comparison of DLAA with other AAs in native resolution
@jeanmartin7166
@jeanmartin7166 Жыл бұрын
DLAA would also removed the "bad AA implementation" bias when comparing native to upscaling methods
@bluesharpie9744
@bluesharpie9744 Жыл бұрын
DLDSR 1.78x +DLSS Quality (1.78x * 0.444% = about 80% the amount of native pixels) is a close contender to DLAA with similar ±performance in case DLAA is not available (although there now seem to be mods to hack it in). In my experience DLAA tends to ghost quite a bit on around edges
@jeanmartin7166
@jeanmartin7166 Жыл бұрын
@@bluesharpie9744 I tried dldsr 2.25 for Death Stranding director's cut and it wasn't good. Not as bad as TAA alone but still a lot behind DLSS alone. PS: it's only one game in 1080p, I have test every game
@teddyholiday8038
@teddyholiday8038 Жыл бұрын
DLAA will always be better
@ryomario90
@ryomario90 Жыл бұрын
You have to disable then re-enable AA in Death Stranding Directors Cut edition each time you launch the game, otherwise it'll be without AA, even though in the graphics menu it says it's on. The standard Death Stranding didn't had this issue.
@Keivz
@Keivz Жыл бұрын
Wow, great observation. Doesn’t change the overall result but the devil is in the details.
Жыл бұрын
Who fucking plays walking simulator!!
@BE3R-LF94
@BE3R-LF94 Жыл бұрын
I knew something was wrong with the results. I played the standard edition of DS a few months ago and thought the TAA implementation was actually good. And I played at 1080P!
@starcultiniser
@starcultiniser Жыл бұрын
@ people without legs?
@ShadeKill
@ShadeKill Жыл бұрын
@@starcultiniser Imagining it, is its own journey
@jayjay00agnt
@jayjay00agnt Жыл бұрын
Awesome information. This channel has been especially hitting it out of the park with valuable and hard to find information. I know these videos are a ton of work, and I'm hoping others can appreciate and find this content as helpful and useful as I do.
@drek9k2
@drek9k2 Жыл бұрын
Yeah for real, and these guys are truly independent and not willing to shine a turd. Like it'd be funny watching them seeing a GTX 1630 in action for the cost. It confuses me because I think they're pretty much fair, and rightfully slammed teh 6500XT as being a garbage product, yet lots of butthurt fanboys had to cope about what seemed like blatantly obvious common sense to me 8gb was not enough. I'm confused by techpowerup though it says a 6500XT performs the same as a 5500XT? Why really?? Funny because mostly AMD was the best brand last gen, except that one stinking turd. I automatically expect Gamersnexus and Hardware Unboxed to be utterly unswayed by corporate bullshit artists.
@vmafarah9473
@vmafarah9473 Жыл бұрын
Meanwhile Lius techtips uses 1/20th of the effort to make a video, but includes some hand held camera movements, some gpu dropping, some sponsourshots, some jokes .
@Maddin-6616
@Maddin-6616 Жыл бұрын
I will never understand why the DLSS or FSR files are not updated... there are really big differences in quality and it's not a big job for the DEVs. but the result is all the greater.
@NostalgicMem0ries
@NostalgicMem0ries Жыл бұрын
what you mean updated? to lastest versions or implemented in other games?
@DavidFregoli
@DavidFregoli Жыл бұрын
you can't just boot the game and test a couple scenes to verify it works correctly, there might be a specific area or shader that doesn't play well with it, it's not that straight forward
@muchvibrant
@muchvibrant Жыл бұрын
@@DavidFregoli I agree but I personally use the latest DLSS version with the games that support DLSS but are stuck with older version (eg. RDR2 ) and the game looks native with more fps. DLSS 2.5.1 or any 3.x.x looks so good
@lexsanderz
@lexsanderz Жыл бұрын
As a developer, it comes to : there is no ticket for that. Anyway, the nvidia SDK states that the dll is drop-in replaceable and that is a major feature of their sdk. Even have an update function you can call but nobody ever does.
@muchvibrant
@muchvibrant Жыл бұрын
@@TechTusiast Also dont get confused, NVIDIA DLSS DLL 3.1.11 is not DLSS 3 which we know.. Its DLSS 2 only but with version name 3.1.11
@ginzero
@ginzero Жыл бұрын
Very well done balanced comparison! Thanks for the timely update on where we are at with the technologies.
@glittlehoss
@glittlehoss Жыл бұрын
Unbelievable content. Need to continue to showcase games relative performance between DLSS, fsr and native twice per year to keep up with the updates and new games coming out.
@c.chepre8452
@c.chepre8452 Жыл бұрын
would love to see DLDSR together with DLSS added at some point in the future, i often use both together at 1440p and it further reduces flickering/aliasing.
@8Paul7
@8Paul7 Жыл бұрын
Yeah I play on 1080p plasma and the picture is just perfect when using DLDSR and DLSS quality combo.
@Dionyzos
@Dionyzos Жыл бұрын
I love DLDSR even at 4K. It performs even better than native and looks significantly better in most titles.
@Lollakuk
@Lollakuk Жыл бұрын
@@8Paul7 so you DLDSR it to 4K then do DLSS performance on it or?
@impc8265
@impc8265 Жыл бұрын
@@Lollakuk you can't dldsr to 4k on a 1080 screen, but yes the idea is correct
@Lollakuk
@Lollakuk Жыл бұрын
@@impc8265 you definitely can. I have DSRd to 2160p on my 1080p monitor.
@kalark
@kalark Жыл бұрын
I honestly just assumed going into this video that Native > DLSS and FSR in terms of quality, so it was pretty interesting to see how it resolved some issues with some games like DS. Great video!
@dante19890
@dante19890 Жыл бұрын
That's not always the case sometimes dlss 2 will have better image Integrity than native
@razoo911
@razoo911 Жыл бұрын
in fact its true from this video you can see the only thing that fsr and dlss do better is antialiasing
@uhurunuru6609
@uhurunuru6609 Жыл бұрын
Well you assumed correctly, because Tim makes a common mistake, Native > Upscaling (ANY), but DLAA > AA (ANY), because all AA is trying to imitate DOWNscaling. Render @ 8k, Display @ 4k gives you the best AA you can get, at cost of huge performance hit, and every AA ever invented tries to mimic this taxing AA method, without high FPS hit. DLAA is training the AI on Downscaling, to do better AA, without upscaling the render. So all this video shows is what we already know DLAA is "Better than any other AA. This is worst video Tim has ever made, especially as we can now force DLAA, in any game that has DLSS support (How? See my other posts in these comments).
@lhv2k
@lhv2k Жыл бұрын
I think you should consider testing more games with manually updated DLL file for the lastest version of DLSS. Since as you said, just by updating its version can change the result from worse than Native to match or even better, so I wonder if this is a trend across the board, and since this is a comparison of DLSS vs Native, I think it's fair to use the best and lastest version of it, since it can be manually done by users for free, not depending on games developers to implement. If the results are indeed positive for all, then it's gonna be truly a game-changing technology, since it'd be a truly free, stable and noticeable performance boost toggle that comes at no cost, and might even improve visual, simply a much better solution than overclocking since it's not dependent on silicone lottery.
@foxpants
@foxpants Жыл бұрын
Couldn't agree more
@brucethen
@brucethen Жыл бұрын
Thank you for all your effort in producing these comparison videos it is much appreciated
@JohnThunder
@JohnThunder Жыл бұрын
I noticed that some DLSS version give you heavy ghosting. If i notice this in a new released game I replace the DLSS file with 2.5.0 or 2.5.1 version.
@Napoleonic_S
@Napoleonic_S Жыл бұрын
Where to get those dlss files?
@conyo985
@conyo985 Жыл бұрын
I like those versions too! It's gives the sharpest and the least ghosting image.
@jemborg
@jemborg Жыл бұрын
Latest is 3.1.11, why not use that?
@mylliah7648
@mylliah7648 Жыл бұрын
I use the 3.1.11 dll with DLSSTweaks to change the preset to C (preset used in 2.5.1). So it's even better than 2.5.1!
@Shendue
@Shendue Жыл бұрын
@@jemborg Precisely for the reason stated, duh. "Some DLSS versions give you heavy ghosting"
@cromefire_
@cromefire_ Жыл бұрын
Maybe instead of or in addition to further optimizing DLSS and FSR image quality, maybe developers should just spend more time properly fixing the native rendering in many cases... Basically every single time DLSS was better, it wasn't because it was so good, but because native TAA just was so bad. We have seen that before with stuff like AMD's CAS which seemed to work just a lot better than what ever developers built themselves...
@cromefire_
@cromefire_ Жыл бұрын
@@jkahgdkjhafgsd it does absolutely not, not even on a 4K monitor
@cromefire_
@cromefire_ Жыл бұрын
@@jkahgdkjhafgsd Even on a 140ppi monitor jagged edges looks worse than everything, I'd rather take bad TAA that flickers a lot, but it's better than literally everything looking absolutely awful... If you want something good, look at something like SOTTRs SMAA + TAA implementations. They are expensive, but it works wonders, not a lot of flickering and other artifacts, just plain solid.
@normaalewoon6740
@normaalewoon6740 11 ай бұрын
No anti aliasing is almost perfect during movement, it absolutely slams the clarity of even dlaa. Aliasing patterns are a problem because the pixels are only rasterized in the centers, which is pretty wasteful. It's better to rasterize random locations inside the pixels, which also randomizes the aliasing patterns and makes them a lot smoother in real time. To improve the clarity even further, foveated supersampling/downsampling is needed, on top of backlight strobing/black frame insertion and eye movement compensated motion blur, which make 100 hz look and feel like 1000 hz in a non destructive way
@coaltrain2299
@coaltrain2299 10 ай бұрын
@@jkahgdkjhafgsd dlaa
@ziben2748
@ziben2748 Жыл бұрын
I love videos like this, GREAT JOB! i strongly hope develops will be updating their upscalers
@Techfanatic73
@Techfanatic73 Жыл бұрын
Some other channels could learn from your image quality. Always sharp and clear 4k. Probably the best looking channel I watch. Why do other channels not look this good? Lol. Keep it up!
@Sal3600
@Sal3600 Жыл бұрын
Biased. They're all the same.
@julfy_god
@julfy_god Жыл бұрын
24 games, that's a lot of work) great job, Tim!
@gunnarthegumbootguy7909
@gunnarthegumbootguy7909 Жыл бұрын
DLSS has a wonderful effect on surfaces that get shimmering lighting/shading or shimmering/bubbling screen space reflections that is pretty common on games of the last 3 years, my guess is that the temporal effect of it smooths it out, in sometitles it's very obvious like Cyberpunk 2077 where this kind of shimmering appears on a lot of surfaces. I guess theoretically a good TAA setting would be able to do the same, but it would have to be able to understand know what kinds of objects it should do it to, or it would cause ghosting... i guess this is where DLSS comes in, since the machine learning can make it understand what parts should reasonably not be shimmering... and modern 3.1 dlss is very low in noticeable ghosting anyway... also now with dlsstweaks which is a fabulous tool, and now it even comes with a UI program for people who might feel intimdated by editing the text files directly. With this, you can set your own internal resolutions... i've been playing around with it a lot... most games can run on really weird internal resolutions, like rendering at 3:2 3240x2160, which i've tried for 4k, so it is DLAA vertically, and DLSS horizontally... in games where you would need just a bit more performance with dlss but you are not satisfied with the "quality" option... or in games where you want something in between the available settings. I hope in the future this can be baked in as a slider in games, so that instead of having a number of options "quality, balanced, performance and ultra performance", you can just have a slider from full internal 1x resolution (DLAA) down to even below the ultra performance (x0.333333) level... I've had great use of this tool to max out for example The Last Of Us Part 1, so that I can set a resolution just high enough to look very close to native (so above the DLSS quality setting, which is x0.6666667) but still fitting within my VRAM limitations for a certain set of settings, that i wouldn't have been able to do if i ran it at native. DLSS really saves the day and i've tried using FSR and XeSS to see if they are any better in any game, but i haven't yet found any case where they look better. Having gone over to 4k tv for gaming and content viewing recently, I wouldn't even be able to run a lot of the games i like in 4k without dlss, it's really the main thing that would keep me from thinking of going over to AMD cards if i was looking for a new graphics card now.
@osmanbicer14
@osmanbicer14 Жыл бұрын
Great content. Thanks for enourmous effort put into this video. Please keep up the great work. I learn a lot from your content.
@blidibliblubla
@blidibliblubla Жыл бұрын
Im interest about the Wattage used in all modes as well in times like we have today. Hope we can see a bit more information as well in the modes. Thx anyway for the good work :)
@krystiano.610
@krystiano.610 Жыл бұрын
22:10 While in theory automatic updates sounds good, as a developer - in practice, we never want to release an untested update. In normal development cycle (and most of the cases), after releasing version 1.0 active development stops and we move to a support phase - where we do not add any new features and focus only on fixing bug and glitches. Most of the developers move to another projects (which may be even DLC for that game, but that also count as a different project) and since there is less human resources, you can't just constantly update such an important library like DLSS (important since it directly affects visuals of the game). If something worked before it's not guaranteed that it will still work after update - e.g. there may be a particle effect at a waterfall which after update starts producing ugly artifacts, QA may not catch this (mostly due to reduced resources), but gamers surely will - that's a big risk. Risk which can be avoided by not updating that library.
@jemborg
@jemborg Жыл бұрын
It helps if you make a backup of the original dll before you update... in case it looks worse.
@Vantrakter
@Vantrakter Жыл бұрын
That sounds pretty logical. And yet if upscaling techniques are being employed by more and more games and gamers and the version of the upscaling library directly affects the enjoyment of the game, it seems logical for a project management to allocate resources to keeping it updated after release, or at least evaluate an update some time after release. I'm not sure one visual glitch in a waterfall matters if the rest of the game looks better and is slightly faster than before.
@deviouslaw
@deviouslaw Жыл бұрын
Outdated thinking
@jeanmartin7166
@jeanmartin7166 Жыл бұрын
If the result is better in 99% of the cases: Why not just always update and let the tested version as an option by default ? In many games, you can chose which version of dlss/fsr you want in the game settings. Players would probably love to see some minors updates after release. Especially when it doesn't require a heavy DL.
@chrisvicera6696
@chrisvicera6696 Жыл бұрын
In some games I honestly prefer 4K native without any temporal AA/ similar techniques . FSR, DLSS and TAA when poorly implemented show lots of ghosting and shimmering which is super annoying
@prman9984
@prman9984 Жыл бұрын
In most games.
@DavidFregoli
@DavidFregoli Жыл бұрын
yes that's the point of the video
@chrisvicera6696
@chrisvicera6696 Жыл бұрын
@@DavidFregoli No he compares native with the best AA which is typically TAA, if you actually listened to the video lmao
@DadGamingLtd
@DadGamingLtd Жыл бұрын
It bothers me that taa has become the goto AA technique. I realize it takes a lot less power than smaa, but it consistently looks like ass. Luckily, you can turn it off in most games.
@Edinburghdreams
@Edinburghdreams Жыл бұрын
Glad to see people are waking up to TAA looking like garbage.
@Hirens.
@Hirens. Жыл бұрын
Love the content! Keep up the good work! 💪🏻
@lawrencetaylor5683
@lawrencetaylor5683 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the content. I would be really interested in seeing some game engine upscalers included for comparison, i.e. many of the games you tested have an in game render resolution slider - it would be really interesting to how they compare to DLSS. In particular because you can use that render resolution slider to hit a pretty exact desired FPS.
@Akkbar21
@Akkbar21 Жыл бұрын
6:40 ummm what is happening when it pans down on the spiderman brick wall with DLSS? It is hitching badly and looks so glitchy. If I saw that in game, I would immediately turn off whatever is causing it (so DLSS). Why wasn’t this incredibly obvious artifact mentioned? Am I confused here and missed you addressing it? Thx
@daelionmr4782
@daelionmr4782 Жыл бұрын
That native image instability and flickering bothers me a lot once I notice it and DLSS Quality fixes it in most cases so I'm using it almost all the time. To me that looks better than native TAA and I can't notice the ghosting tbh + less power draw and lower temps with better performance so its a win-win for me. Even on my lowly 29" 2560x1080 ultrawide Quality mode looks good enough to me, usually I manually update the DLSS dll with the 2.5.1 version tho I'm yet to check the newer versions.
@jeanmartin7166
@jeanmartin7166 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for that. Did you guys plan to do some recent AA comparison ? (Including dldsr)
@VoltanIgor
@VoltanIgor Жыл бұрын
Very interesting video and comparisons. Would have liked some info on Cyberpunk as well though :)
@DadGamingLtd
@DadGamingLtd Жыл бұрын
Can we take a second to talk about the jumpy vertical scroll at the end of spiderman using dlss. Is that an actual thing? Or trouble during editing/encoding?
@awphobic
@awphobic Жыл бұрын
Great video ! People need to remember that DLSS / FSR / XeSS "ADD" performance with much better FPS. Which mean much better frametime and input lag that lead to smoother gameplay. When you can pull 30-40fps on native 4K/1440p/1080p in games you play and you can turn on DLSS to get much better fps or even stable 60fps that should be no brainer to turn on based on the 24 game comparison. With DLSS is edging closer to native in quality mode, FSR and XeSS catching up just mean better for costumer. The real problem just like the video point out, that new games release (hogwarts, deadspace, deathstranding, last of us) in native have much worse anti aliasing method implemented on their game in NATIVE. This feels the norm now that need more attention that developer making unoptimized game like when you can pull 14gb VRAM on the last of us just LOOKING AT A WALL.
@DavidFregoli
@DavidFregoli Жыл бұрын
I'd say it's a no brainer on Ties and DLSS wins. on Native+ it's the best tradeoff to get some performance, while on Native++ and Native+++ games you activate it only if you absolutely need, and potentially test lowering the quality settings first
@flintfrommother3gaming
@flintfrommother3gaming Жыл бұрын
VRAM is reserved, it doesn't matter if you look at a wall or look at a very filled place
@Jakiyyyyy
@Jakiyyyyy Жыл бұрын
VRAM already loaded as soon as you started the game, it dozen matter if you just staring at a wall or having intense gunfights.
@naturesown4489
@naturesown4489 Жыл бұрын
You should see the native without TAA - you'll see jaggies everywhere and there will be shimmering on all the edges. There's a reason games use TAA....
@Enigma1336
@Enigma1336 Жыл бұрын
Very good and informative. I did miss an fps counter here though.
@me1259ify
@me1259ify Жыл бұрын
Love the content and a;; you do. Low key it would be cool to see a Matt cameo soon 👀
@87crimson
@87crimson Жыл бұрын
Another use case for these upscalling techniques is to reduce the workload and power consumption on your graphics card. If it looks the same to you, just enable it.
@eternalbeing3339
@eternalbeing3339 Жыл бұрын
It increases the cpu usage though. Some people shouldn't if they are using ancient hardware.
@Jonatan606
@Jonatan606 Жыл бұрын
​@Eternal Being33 A GPU consumes more power than CPU. You can also combine it with frame generation which will give it breathing room.
@benfowler2127
@benfowler2127 Жыл бұрын
I’ve felt that native is the only true sense of what a gpu can do, but I can’t tell the difference in SOME scenarios. If I’m in the middle of a game, I’d say there’s only certain things like the fence and things flickering that would get on my nerves. So it seems like it’ll end up being a game by game thing for me as to whether or not I’d use the tech or just play with native rendering.
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
in terms of judging how performant a card is, 100% native. in terms of playing and enjoying a game, whatever looks best to you.
@dante19890
@dante19890 Жыл бұрын
Why would u sacrifice performance if you can't tell the difference anyway.
@benfowler2127
@benfowler2127 Жыл бұрын
@@dante19890 I am basing my statement on what I see in the video. I haven’t yet compared them for myself in the games I play. I tend to play in native res without the frame generation on anyways. The one time I tried it, it wasn’t impressive to me, so I haven’t bothered since. Also, with whatever extra processing youtube does to these videos, and depending on the screen someone is watching on, it can be difficult to tell if I’m seeing things the same way. Especially since “seeing 4k” on a tablet vs a monitor or tv is dependent on those devices. What I should do is watch this video again on the pc and monitor I’d be gaming on. And I did say “SOME” scenarios. Not all. There’s a clear difference in many of the examples he showed.
@dante19890
@dante19890 Жыл бұрын
@@benfowler2127 ye but either way its gonna be a little better, same or a little worse depending on the DLSS version and the game, but you are getting a huge performance boost so its a instant net win no matter how u look at it.
@sito3539
@sito3539 Жыл бұрын
Problem is it's not just fences, it's bloom, rain, depth of field, air particles, god rays, wide color gamuts, OLED contrast, etc. on top of increased latency. There're lots of things AI can't do, and it certainly can't do native graphics better, just TAA better, when TAA is bad. Hitman in the rain being the worst offender here, even when DLSS is technically better as an AA solution it makes lighting look awful.
@lupusprobitas
@lupusprobitas Жыл бұрын
I would love if you tested DLSS balanced also. Would be nice to know whether it would be a good tradeoff or whether it in general is something to be avoided.
@paulcox2447
@paulcox2447 7 ай бұрын
Depends on your starting resolution. At 4k balanced works well. 2k it's ok. 1080p I'd stick to quality
@DmitryCee
@DmitryCee Жыл бұрын
Tim and Steve giving people the goodies! Good job!
@rakon8496
@rakon8496 Жыл бұрын
That edition was "helpful-just-in-time". Getting these days frustrated with DLSS stuttering and lacking quality in FlightSim you mentioning the cpu limitation as deal breaker was very helpful. Enjoying the scenery low and slow with a real-life viewing distance means to run the simulation in a CPU limit more often then not. Your confirmation of the title looking much better in Native Res will have serious implications: the 7800X3d has to come to rescue. 😄💙PS: Regarding VRAM, the title (even in Mid Textures) uses more then 12GB ded. in dense areas.... the 3070 wasnt long in my system! Thanks
@GentlyUsedFrog
@GentlyUsedFrog Жыл бұрын
than*
@jinx20001
@jinx20001 Жыл бұрын
incredible result for DLSS lets be honest, just being a tie to native would have been incredibly impressive but to pull wins out the bag on multiple occasions, wow.
@marsovac
@marsovac Жыл бұрын
Better is subjective. What bothers you more? Blurry? jagged edges? Flickering fences? ghosting? Sharpened/oversharpened? SHimmering? Every one of these might have s different weight for each of us. I personally find DLSS fine on quality most of the time, and if I need it more aggressive than that then I drop resolution. But at times when flickering or ghosting is introduced I simply drop resolution instead. I can bear sharpening problems and blurriness, that's why I prefer resolution change to the other artifacts. However I don't play much of these games. A lot of these have bad TAA by default.
@blackfieId
@blackfieId Жыл бұрын
Cool video! I've been wondering about this for some time so it was useful to me. I also noticed that DS was far better looking with DLSS enabled. The aliasing with native was atrocious but with DLSS it looks fantastic. HU please do this grading for all games in existence so we can just look up the game we're gonna play in a database and set our game accordingly.
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
or you could take the two seconds to check the game yourself. why are you so lazy?
@MrSmitheroons
@MrSmitheroons Жыл бұрын
I'm super surprised how close it is. My mind doesn't want to believe it can be this close while giving so much better performance... To the point I keep forgetting it. Brain just doesn't want to get the picture, it doesn't fit with my expectations. Thanks for such patience diving deep into these topics! Making these questions as close to objective, and best explained as possible. Super amazing work taking something like subjective visual quality in upscaling, and digesting it into something nigh objective! Your commentary about what game devs should do is also super concise and actionable. If I could give a gold star award to your channel, I would. I'm having to seriously consider donating or subscribing on Patreon, even though that's something I rarely (just about never) do. Thank you again for your tremendous efforts over the years. Gamers can be so much more informed now than any time I can recall in history. And it's due to dedicated reviewers such as yourselves.
@Sal3600
@Sal3600 Жыл бұрын
Disable taa and dlss and fsr doesn't stand a chance when compared to native.
@dante19890
@dante19890 Жыл бұрын
​​@@Sal3600 incorrect. If u play native without TAA, DLSS will actually have a better image stability
@AnuragCrafts
@AnuragCrafts 24 күн бұрын
​@@dante19890Why would you even do that lol. TAA has a very slight performance hit which is not even noticeable.
@dante19890
@dante19890 24 күн бұрын
@@AnuragCrafts A lot of old school pc gamers hate TAA and just run native resolution with no image treatment or AA
@AnuragCrafts
@AnuragCrafts 24 күн бұрын
@@dante19890 Better add sharpening from control panel or sharpening reshade or any mod for that particular game. It should be fine.
@valrond
@valrond Жыл бұрын
You know, I had been playing newer games with DLSS quality activated at 4K and 1440p with my 4090 and 3080 respectively, as they came as default. They looked fine. However, a few days ago I went back to native and I was surprised by how much crisper everything looked.
@beachslap7359
@beachslap7359 Жыл бұрын
Well, it's a trade-off. You easily get used to less crispy image, but the smoothness makes up for it and once that extra smoothness is gone you IMMEDIATELY notice it.
@sebastien3648
@sebastien3648 Жыл бұрын
because AA sucks, when no AA (TAA, dLAA, DLSS) games look way sharper... but sadly these day you are forced to have at least taa in like 90% of games.. even thought at 4K i would personnaly rather have the slight shimmering than the smoothness.. basically thiscomparison is between TAA and DLSS/fsr, native doesn't mean s*** anymore..
@valrond
@valrond Жыл бұрын
@@beachslap7359 I'm already getting well over 60 fps. I don't care if I get 80 or 120.
@TheReferrer72
@TheReferrer72 Жыл бұрын
@@sebastien3648Suck? You mean look sharper when you take a screen shot and look at the resulting image for 5 minutes? Graphics in games are brilliant.
@Terepin64
@Terepin64 Жыл бұрын
@@cptnsx Calm your tits. I wrote "to mitigate", not "to fix".
@GameCookerUSRocks
@GameCookerUSRocks Жыл бұрын
Very good video. I do wish you did show 1080p again because dlss really does help make images very tolerable where they wouldn't normally especially when running a low-end GPU. You really can get an extra boost of FPS and still not have to sacrifice much image quality or any at all with DLSS. In fact, in some games I played the dlss made 1080p look better when upscaling. That is subjective of course I guess. I know why you use the test system you use but I don't really think people with an RTX 4080 are going to need to use dlss often. 🙂 Thanks for the video. 👍.
@PoRRasturvaT
@PoRRasturvaT Жыл бұрын
The dragon neon sign on Hitman is losing a lot of brightness and bloom compared to native. The ~1-2 pixel wide neon information is lost and thus doesn't produce the light it was supposed to. That's pretty impactfull in my opinion. It's completely extinguished/muted on FSR. This is something that will be noticed a lot in Cyberpunk, where 1-2 pixel elements (neon signs again) have to convey bright, contrasted information and is further enhanced by bloom post processing.
@MichaOstrowski
@MichaOstrowski Жыл бұрын
The intensity of bloom is, sadly, often related to the native resolution, so when that drops, you get less bloom...
@monotoneone
@monotoneone Жыл бұрын
Yes, lighting effects take a hit when using upscaling. This is why I ran Death Stranding at native despite the shimmering, the lights look "wrong" when using DLSS. The more bloom light sources have the more it is noticeable. Neon lights often look like LED lights with DLSS.
@juanblanco7898
@juanblanco7898 Жыл бұрын
There's a gamma shift and overal loss in color accuracy when scaling is performed, which is to be expected due to obvious reasons. And sadly this is not a problem most people, be it developers or consumers, are concerned about. Or what is actually sad is that I'm definitely not one of them as I'm very sensitive to such things.
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
good call i didnt even notice that.
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
@@juanblanco7898 you can't adjust gamma settings in game?
@Raums
@Raums Жыл бұрын
My takeaway from this is I can’t really tell the difference so I can just go for fps ❤
@kilmor3151
@kilmor3151 Жыл бұрын
Yea with DLSS. Good luck not being able to tell the difference FSR2.
@Verpal
@Verpal Жыл бұрын
@@kilmor3151 FSR 2 is pretty good on 4K, I think its okay to use it for 4K quality, below that I am not sure.
@LeegallyBliindLOL
@LeegallyBliindLOL Жыл бұрын
@@Verpal heavily depends on the game. Unusable in RE4 for me.
@anuzahyder7185
@anuzahyder7185 Жыл бұрын
Bro fsr suc*s. I use nvidia but most of the times i prefer native over dlss q especially in cyberpunk. 80% of the time i wud go with native n 20% of the time i wud go with dlss quality. Never fsr it is horrible
@PixelShade
@PixelShade Жыл бұрын
To be fair, I think the "better than native" really comes into place in scenes with limited motion. It could be an RTS game, like The Riftbreakers, a slow dialogue focused cutscene like the Witcher 3, puzzle games like Lego Builders or just when standing still, detail studying environments or characters in Cyberpunk. In those cases the temporal resolve has a super-sampled "better than native" quality to it. With FSR showcasing flickering instability with sub-pixel geometry (due to the feature lacking a temporal smoothing pass, which DLSS has. However, this extra pass often causes extra ghosting in DLSS as a result). There are so many components to upscaling, and there's just a lot of subjective opinion of the image quality that you can't or don't really need to quantify. For me personally I rather play Cyberpunk with FSR Quality over the native image at 1440p due to the super sampled temporal resolve in cutscenes, dialogues, or just when detail studying the environment. During motion it's close to native, but with added flickering and slight fuzz. which I don't mind when I get into the game. So even if flickering CAN be distracting, to me it isn't all that important, and I value the benefits of FSR, over its drawbacks. And that's something that you can't really quantify even in an image comparison, because it really depends on the scene, what you value, how much you are into the game and what best depicts the artists intended look for the game. and so on.
@KillerTrap
@KillerTrap Жыл бұрын
another great video. this channel is on fire.
@elaiswaifu5459
@elaiswaifu5459 Жыл бұрын
When I have performance left… I tend to do this trick… DLDSR 2.25x + DLSS Quality… I play on a 4K monitor, so the game would be rendered at 6K and DLSS Quality would make the game render internally at 4K and upscale to 6K… This makes the image look a lot sharper and better than regular 4K actually! Even on 6K Performance mode (which renders internally at 1620p), it usually looks almost like native 4K and lots of times even better than it by a bit.
@shockwav3xx
@shockwav3xx Жыл бұрын
What is DLDSR?
@lonerprofile
@lonerprofile Жыл бұрын
It's called supersampling, also be used in video/anime industry. Render video at 4k and downscale to 1080p or 8k downscale to 4k, that's why you see those studio use 8k/12k high end camera.
@elaiswaifu5459
@elaiswaifu5459 Жыл бұрын
@@shockwav3xx opposite of upscaling… It downscales the game instead, this gives a sharper and crisper image than native.
@Dionyzos
@Dionyzos Жыл бұрын
I often use 1.78x which already looks great
@shanroxalot5354
@shanroxalot5354 Жыл бұрын
@@Dionyzos Thats what I am wondering is it better to do 1.78x with Quality or 2.25x with Balanced/Performance etc..
@Argoon1981
@Argoon1981 Жыл бұрын
IMO when testing native using post-process TAA (temporal anti-alising) is not showing native at its best, TAA when compared to DLSS or FSR, lacks a sharpening filter, it slightly blurs the image instead and worse creates artifacts that wouldn't exist with no AA. MSAA (multi-sampling anti-alising) would be the best AA option to use for native, when comparing image quality, but unfortunately, modern games have no MSAA support at all and forcing it on the drivers, only works for older D3d9 (direct X 9) games and that is a real tragedy to me. You can of course, still use SSAA (super sampling anti-alising) in any game, by just rendering it at a higher resolution than the one you display at, and that has the best image quality of all but also destroys performance.
@ian260672
@ian260672 Жыл бұрын
The reason I stuck with Nvidia last year was due to DLSS, not too bothered over Raytracing, just DLSS. I use a 50 inch 4k TV and my old 2060 super using DLSS got stable 60fps at 1440p. My 3070ti on Dying light 2 gets stable 60fps at 4k using DLSS. Only thing I don't like is the vram only 8gig on 3070ti, Nvidia messed up with vram.
@eternalbeing3339
@eternalbeing3339 Жыл бұрын
8gb is fine if you dont max out the textures.
@vladvah77
@vladvah77 Жыл бұрын
Well, the RTX 3070/Ti is a 1440p video card, so 8 GB VRAM is exactly what you need.
@wertyuiopasd6281
@wertyuiopasd6281 2 ай бұрын
​@@eternalbeing3339Cope
@wertyuiopasd6281
@wertyuiopasd6281 2 ай бұрын
​@@vladvah77Fanboys should stay silent.
@Tepnox
@Tepnox Жыл бұрын
Excellent comparison! Will you test Cyberpunk in another separate video?
@EpicPianoArrangements
@EpicPianoArrangements Жыл бұрын
A couple of things... is there a reason that the DLSS version of Miles Morales videos started stuttering at 6:35-6:47, and God of War did the same at 12:45-13:00. You'd think DLSS would perform much smoother than native resolution. Also, thank you for making a point about games updating their DLSS versions. Trying to update DLSS in RDR 2 is almost impossible since Rockstar Launcher ALWAYS check to see if files have been moderated every time you play, and even if you update the DLSS version, Rockstar Launcher will ALWAYS replace it with its older v2.2.10 file. If you try and deny write/edit changes to the file, Rockstar Launcher won't even launch the game; It will stay stuck trying to 'update' the file.
@kevinerbs2778
@kevinerbs2778 Жыл бұрын
Trash D.R.M.
@vladvah77
@vladvah77 Жыл бұрын
Well mate, you can always use EMPRESS edition for single player campaign of RDR 2, she has cracked a new version with DLSS so I would say F u c k off Rockstar launcher!!!! and enjoy my game anyway :-)
@jlgroovetek
@jlgroovetek Жыл бұрын
Reading the comments, it would seem many haven't actually watched the video???
@solarstrike33
@solarstrike33 Жыл бұрын
Mudslinging…mudslinging everywhere…
@EvLTimE
@EvLTimE Жыл бұрын
I just pick 1440p dlss quality + sharpening all day vs forced TAA in latest titles where you cant even pick another AA (cp2077 as example). Dlaa is good alternative
@mryellow6918
@mryellow6918 Жыл бұрын
Forced taa is so fkn annoying it's the reason I could never play the newer battlefields past hardline can't stand any type of aa it's all just blury
@EvLTimE
@EvLTimE Жыл бұрын
@@mryellow6918 Main reason why I upgraded from 1080p...simply because no matter which settings you use you cant see anything. Blur mess vs pixelated mess. Lately my friend and me tried the Division 1 and we were astonished about AA implementation. Both 1080p and 1440p. I think we should blame devs fot AA at this point.
@johng4357
@johng4357 Жыл бұрын
Great video, very interesting. On my 3080 and 1440p UW i use DLSS quality in cyberpunk as it still looks good and allows me to use some RT. On ACC tho DLSS looks like a blurry mess so i run native or higher But based on this video i may go back to ACC and compare DLSS vs AA options etc to see if i can get something close but with the obvious frame rate jump
@sireveman
@sireveman Жыл бұрын
I would really appreciate the test with NO AA! The biggest take is that if you are going to downgrade quality, FSR or DLSS makes no difference.
@adriankoch964
@adriankoch964 Жыл бұрын
I used DLSS when first playing Cyberpunk on a 1080p ultrawide. Set a higher resolution than my panel and balanced it so it would render natively at the resolution of my panel; My panel would then downscale the higher game resolution image back to its native resolution. This gave me more distance clarity and a bit more stable image in Cyberpunk (that a month after release of CP, was before DLAA was an official thing in the driver or the game).
@kiburikikiam
@kiburikikiam Жыл бұрын
so you're basically using dldsr.
@adriankoch964
@adriankoch964 Жыл бұрын
@@kiburikikiam before that was part of the driver, yes.
@pasi123567
@pasi123567 Жыл бұрын
In my personal experience I noticed that the newer DLAA anit-aliasing algorithm works incredibly well with solving flickering issues and making the image look high res. I think this test shows that the Nvidia AA algorithm on DLSS handles scenes much better than TAA for example hence why DLSS looks better than native in many cases. I wonder if we will ever get a test comparing DLSS with DLAA. DLAA native scenes should theoretically be better than DLSS.
@1GTX1
@1GTX1 Жыл бұрын
Last of Us and Marvel's Spiderman look amazing even on a 24 inch 1080p screen with DLAA. If every game looked like that, 1080p resolution wouldn't be a problem.
@EdKenny
@EdKenny Жыл бұрын
I'm interested in how the particles are being rendered at different resolutions. The example of the particles in the air in The last of us for example, is the issue that the lower resoltution render before upscaling, simply renders less particles therefore this is an expected outcome, or is the DLSS algorithm smoothing out some of the particles? I would be very cool if you were able to ask the game dev's some questions about how they find working with DLSS versus Native resolution.
@VectorGaming4080
@VectorGaming4080 10 ай бұрын
The game engine is likely only creating so many particles for a given internal rendering resolution. This is why setting the correct LOD bias is so important for DLSS and developers need to make sure that they allow DLSS to sample higher quality assets than what their internal resolution would have if it were native.
@pauldanste
@pauldanste Жыл бұрын
This was enlightening. My biggest question now is how DLAA factors into all of this. I thought it was using the same basic technology as DLSS and thus would usually look better, but now I am less sure.
@awesomecarl
@awesomecarl Жыл бұрын
DLSS is just really good anti aliasing, that's why they added DLAA, which is just DLSS without upscaling
@HanSolo__
@HanSolo__ Жыл бұрын
This
@Superdazzu2
@Superdazzu2 Жыл бұрын
no it's not lol, it also gives back huge chunks of fps, ranging from 20+ (quality) to almost double with performance
@johnnypopstar
@johnnypopstar Жыл бұрын
@@Superdazzu2 Yes, it is. He is absolutely correct, from a technical perspective, on what the actual image processing techniques involved in the upscaling are doing. There is also a *side effect* that because it's starting with a lower resolution image, you get an FPS bump - but the fundamentals of the image processing that's going on, are, *unavoidably* that it's doing extremely computationally inefficient anti-aliasing.
@Drip7914
@Drip7914 Жыл бұрын
@@Superdazzu2 no it doesn’t lmao, dlss3 the latest iteration of dlss actually REDUCES performance due to 10-15x the latency, fsr actually increases performance/quality. (Source - HUB, AdoredTV, NotAnAppleFan, PCworld etc)
@awesomecarl
@awesomecarl Жыл бұрын
@@Superdazzu2 Yeah because DLSS is applying that anti aliasing to a lower resolution, instead of native
@marcelo19071998
@marcelo19071998 Жыл бұрын
always update dlss to the newest version and test if its better. most of the time it will have great improvement in image quality (there are exceptions though)
@ivaniveciqtests6085
@ivaniveciqtests6085 Жыл бұрын
You are really a great channel. But who told you that people do not play on 1080p any more?
@FunkMonk1111
@FunkMonk1111 Жыл бұрын
Top quality work boyo's, keep it up.
@RedundancyDept
@RedundancyDept Жыл бұрын
It boils down to anti-aliasing, which can be pretty bad at native. Interesting that the FSR flaws to which Tim most often points are usually also present in the native/TAA presentation. This suggests to me that complaints about FSR are overblown. Yeah, FSR is worse than DLSS, but it's still pretty close to, and in rare cases better than, native quality. And given that modern games tend to have glaring issues otherwise--perhaps micro-transactions, brain-dead gameplay, bad AI/scripting, and/or things like persistent shadow/texture/mesh pop-in--given all of that, I have a hard time stressing out about minute differences in image quality. Still, I prefer to run native when I can.
@mryellow6918
@mryellow6918 Жыл бұрын
Native + blur
@naturesown4489
@naturesown4489 Жыл бұрын
It's not just that, DLSS is trained on a 16K resolution dataset which is why it can generate fine detail better than native 4k sometimes.
@DimkaTsv
@DimkaTsv Жыл бұрын
Which for addition makes up additional point. Unlike DLSS, FSR works with just what it gets, not some magic box of trained data to mask lower resolution source. So, if native have shimmering and stability issues, FSR would get them as well, while sometimes exaggerating, sometimes suppressing. It's not that FSR is bad. It is just that DLSS creates stuff that wasn't there originally. It's also not a bad thing, but by itself it shouldn't make FSR worse technology. And cost of such creation (and reliance for TAA and AI) is ghosting (more for DLSS), or not fixing original shimmering (more for FSR). Probably that DLSS/FSR comparsion should've went with native as well (just not including it in results). Maybe overall conclusion would've not been so negative towards FSR. It is still inferior for multiple reasons, as, for example, there is no magic box to draw stuff from air with. But it doesn't "destroy" playing experience.
@Andytlp
@Andytlp Жыл бұрын
Agree. People forget how bad games looked 15 years ago. Its no longer about graphics or resolution. Gameplay is stagnating more. Physics implementations dont get enough attention nor audio. Worst offender is a.i. Most games have brain dead a.i especially if its a tacked on singleplayer with main focus being multiplayer. Which then make multiplayer bots suck too.
@naturesown4489
@naturesown4489 Жыл бұрын
@@DimkaTsv I think they do have to train FSR 2 for games somehow, as it cannot be injected into any game like FSR 1 can be with the Magpie mod. I don't know how they do the training though. You make some very good points.
@What_In_This_World
@What_In_This_World Жыл бұрын
I have a theory about some of your test data, for Spider-Man for example. I wonder if the game engine and texture packs are only optimized and designed for 1080p and 2160p. So when the game renders natively at 1440p, it’s just using something like a checkerboard technique to up the image to 1440p, whereas DLSS can upscale to 1440p from 1080p (quality mode) using its magical mathematical algorithms, which would also explain why the native 4K presentations were better than DLSS upscaling from 1440p, because the game engine already adjusted the image from 1080p to 1440p prior to DLSS then upscaling from 1440p to 2160p, which could explain why in Spider-Man and last of us, 4K native was so much better in it’s fine details then DLSS/FSR but native 1440p was much closer to DLSS/FSR. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ maybe this is something to look at in certain games, do certain resolutions offer up certain pros/cons and do some of those go away with certain DLSS/FSR settings ?? Is this just a DLSS/FSR issue, or is it also a possible game engine issue? Do some developers just not take the time to properly develop 1440p textures and details, which would make the DLSS quality mode using an already less optimized image ??
@6TheBACH
@6TheBACH Жыл бұрын
Only thing I see here is how fucking great FSR is, and that it does not need meme hardware to actually just work.
@vmafarah9473
@vmafarah9473 Жыл бұрын
for some people over sharpened image with denoised textures with low flickering is better than non sharpened images with normal textures with flickers only seen when zoomed too far. But for me the later is better.when ghosting is minused image looks little bad at the edges
@existentialselkath1264
@existentialselkath1264 Жыл бұрын
Standard TAA is often absolutely awful. I'll never understand how it was ever acceptable. DLSS (and fsr) often does a better job dealing with artifacts like ghosting, but obviously it can't compete with the sheer pixel count of native. A prime example is often flowing water. Transparencies often don't create motion vectors so any moving texture gets smeared like crazy with TAA, but dlss is capable of keeping the texture crystal clear in cases
@zxbc1
@zxbc1 Жыл бұрын
It kind of depends. For a long time in M&B Bannerlord for example, even DLSS quality gives off major shimmering with water and ripples, and default AA at native looks significantly better. But later DLSS versions fixed some of that. What they should have done is to swap the DLL to latest version for all the comparisons.
@existentialselkath1264
@existentialselkath1264 Жыл бұрын
@@zxbc1 for sure, it's not always better. Spiderman for example has very good temporal anti aliasing tech so these issues aren't as apparent. As for older dlss versions, it's extremely easy to replace the dll with a newer version so I don't really consider the older versions anymore
@prman9984
@prman9984 Жыл бұрын
Why even use AA at 4k? It hurts performance and looks worse.
@zxbc1
@zxbc1 Жыл бұрын
@@prman9984 To fix aliasing, like you would at any resolution. 4K doesn't somehow fix aliasing, it just makes the aliasing size smaller. For me it's absolutely required for a lot of games because I game on a 48" LG C2 at desktop distance, and I can see aliasing very clearly at this distance. If you game on a big screen in living room couch distance you probably won't need it, although for some games that have very bad aliasing, you will still notice severe shimmering even if you can't see the exact aliasing artifact.
@cptnsx
@cptnsx Жыл бұрын
@@zxbc1 I game on a big screen in 4K since 2016 and hate AA especially TAA with passion. It destroys image quality - its why I HATE these people that say DLSS is BETTER than Native because its NOT. It may be better (image quality) than Native with AA but NOT without.
@Bry.89
@Bry.89 Жыл бұрын
This just makes me hope that AMD eventually releases a version of FSR that utilizes AI to enhance the quality of the image similar to DLSS. Perhaps it might only work on newer AMD gpus, and would otherwise revert back to normal FSR. But knowing AMD it will also work on any gpu capable of utilizing tensor ML cores. That would be the true "DLSS Killer"
@BPMa14n
@BPMa14n Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video now I can trully say HUB is the channel that provides all decision factors for those looking to make the best decision for their budgets when purchasing a GPU
@Morgan-iv4ye
@Morgan-iv4ye Жыл бұрын
What is outro song name? Artist name doesn’t pop anything up on Spotify or KZfaq and Shazam isn’t working
@Felttipfuzzywuzzyflyguy
@Felttipfuzzywuzzyflyguy Жыл бұрын
The motion performance of both brothers me, I notice it immediately. Obviously they're always improving it but I personally choose not to enable them.
@taufikaji3150
@taufikaji3150 Жыл бұрын
agree
@prman9984
@prman9984 Жыл бұрын
There's one clip in the video where he's saying DLSS is superior, while it's stuttering on DLSS but not in native.
@DavidFregoli
@DavidFregoli Жыл бұрын
TAA has the same problem so I guess no AA for you
@gavinderulo12
@gavinderulo12 Жыл бұрын
​@@prman9984 could just be the capture.
@nahush6299
@nahush6299 Жыл бұрын
@@prman9984 DLSS improves performance so I don't see how it could be stuttering when native doesn't, especially since Tim didn't mention anything as he tested it & would have felt it. Ig it could just be a bug while capturing gameplay.
@abhishek_k7
@abhishek_k7 Жыл бұрын
I could barely tell any difference in most cases lol. but that took a lot of effort so massive respect! 🙌🏻
@mrbobgamingmemes9558
@mrbobgamingmemes9558 Жыл бұрын
True unless i use like performance settings both on fsr and dlss
@kilmor3151
@kilmor3151 Жыл бұрын
That's why videos on this are a plain moronic concept. You won't ever be able to tell in a video.
@DavidFregoli
@DavidFregoli Жыл бұрын
hard to cross reference same area unless you pause, I'd rather see more stills than playback for fine detail, but playback also has its place to highlight image stability and shimmering. also YT compression doesn't help.
@rippenzong2455
@rippenzong2455 Жыл бұрын
this was very interesting. see i play mostly at 1440 because i like high fps and ive found i really like the sharpness that dlss or even fsr can give. like hogwarts and rdr2 and a couple others im not really thinking of imo just look better at 1440 than taa
@mers3331
@mers3331 Жыл бұрын
Excellent content. It would have been better if you updated the DLSS version to the latest for all tests though, I don't think the game's default version matters for the enthusiast community (which I assume make up the majority of your viewerbase) when it can be easily swapped.
@Zaney_
@Zaney_ Жыл бұрын
I would also like to see DLAA results and rendering the game at a higher resolution then down scaling it. I.e 4k to 1440p and seeing how those two compare to traditional TAA.
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
you people demand a lot without compensating them for it. what's stopping you from testing yourself? I'll give you a hint, downscaling pretty much always gives you the best image quality.
@tvcultural68
@tvcultural68 Жыл бұрын
​@@gozutheDJ if we were to follow your brilliant logic, this video would not exist. Hw does technical analysis that most people are not capable of, so it's interesting to see H.W opinion. about the lol reward the channel earns money with the videos by adsense
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
@@tvcultural68people are not capable of turning a setting on, checking how it looks in game, turning it off, and comparing? wtf?
@tvcultural68
@tvcultural68 Жыл бұрын
​@@gozutheDJ It seems like you didn't understand anything I said. Hardware Unboxed goes much deeper into the differences in graphics than most people, in summary, the channel offers a much better analysis. And if someone were to do their own analysis on dozens of games, it would take dozens of hours, I know this because I analyzed 5 games. It's much easier to watch a video that provides a great summary of this issue than for a person to spend dozens of hours analyzing games. Is it difficult for you to understand this?
@gozutheDJ
@gozutheDJ Жыл бұрын
@@tvcultural68 because this is literally just content dude. its fun to watch but no one is using this to tune their games. because to tune their game they would just .... do it themselves. i have eyes. i dont need a channel to tell me what looks better to me. its all coming down to personal preference as i said, unless you just go along with what other people tell you is better. and also, your monitor factors heavily into this as well. and that's something they can't account for, they can only tell you how it looked to them on their monitors, but you might have a completely different result, so at the end of the day you STILL need to test it for yourself.
@leostival
@leostival Жыл бұрын
I'd love to see something like that for 1080p. Is it crap or is it any good?
@KanakaBhaswaraPrabhata
@KanakaBhaswaraPrabhata Жыл бұрын
it is good.
@vladvah77
@vladvah77 Жыл бұрын
@@KanakaBhaswaraPrabhata Old DLSS was crap, but 2.5.0.+ is very good.
@paulsef92
@paulsef92 Жыл бұрын
Random question: why does the video quality on this channel always look so good? Uploaded in a different format?
@loki76
@loki76 Жыл бұрын
I feel despite Nvidia getting a bad rap for charging a lot with their cards. One thing they have brought us in the gaming space is some amazing technologies. DLSS is a game changer, period. Being able to play games with huge performance gains with virtually no loss in image quality and even better at times is awesome. It can prolong the life of that expensive GPU significantly. They also brought Ray Tracing and now moving into path tracing. No matter what some people think that "don't need it". I call BS on that. Looking at Cyberpunk 2077 with now "Overdrive" path tracing. It's a massive difference. Even if it's super heavy to use today. It's a feature that will become a staple in gaming moving forward. This is excellent not just for us gamers with amazing visuals. It actually hugely help game developers as well. They don't have to sit and create "spot light" in environments and hand craft the scenes constantly. Because all the lighting is done for them and correctly that automatically also renders shadows how they should look. DLSS 3 and people saying fake frames. So what. It allows for a smoother game play visually and even cut CPU bottleneck. If you use it in single player games and have decent enough latency it's a huge boon. You can actually play Cyberpunk 2077 with Overdrive and maxed out and get over 90fps and latency is still far better than lets say playing a game using 60fps "Vsync". Yes it can have some artifacts but I take that tradeoff with having amazing lighting shadows. The kicker though is that you can actually play it with 60fps using just DLSS 4K performance mode and it's not really a visual downgrade. I love having my 4090. It's expensive, but I feel I have more advantages with it than any other GPU in recent memory. It's not just massive performance. It's all the features and headroom it has. Like in "The Last of Us". Because of the massive VRAM amount and sheer performance. That port for us with 4090 is near flawless to play. Yet others suffer like it's night and day difference. This all comes down to the performance and VRAM. I can play it natively maxed out and it does 80-110fps and stable as a rock. Some games it has so much horsepower it creates massive CPU bottlenecks. This just means the GPU will have a longer lifespan even. Considering VRR and DLSS exist. I can keep this card and skip the next 5000 series generation and still likely max out games. Yes the FPS will get lower. But with VRR, no tearing and DLSS keeps it up there longer and now with DLSS3 it can actually give you high fps going forward. Amazing. The fact that during the worst times during 3000 series and scalping a 3080Ti cost the same as my 4090 did. So I feel I only won with 4090. Now come next year I want a new CPU that hopefully has really strong performance to keep this bad boy maxed in utilization.
@bodieh1261
@bodieh1261 Жыл бұрын
First off I just wanna say I really appreciate the effort you guys put into these videos to provide us with such in depth analysis and information on topics. That said, in this instance I think a more useful and widely applicable analysis would be to compare the image quality of native 1080p or 1440p to that of higher but upscaled resolutions, at quality settings where the upscalers render at or close to 1080p or 1440p respectively. For example: - Native 1080p vs 4K Upscaled on Performance (1080p render res) - Native 1440p vs 4K Upscaled on Quality (1440p render res) - 1440p Upscaled on Performance vs 1080p Upscaled on Quality (720p render res) I think these comparisons could be more useful because most gamers have hardware that actually allows them to use those setting combinations at playable framerates, whereas very few actually have the hardware that affords them the luxury of "choosing" between native 4K and upscaled 4K. Dlss/fsr were always meant to be tools to boost performance at a given res(or enable playable fps at higher res) while minimizing losses in image quality, more so than tools to outright boost image quality itself. Personally from my own sample size of 1, I have found that running games like MW2, Cyberpunk and Hogwarts at 2160p Performance or even 1620p Quality(also ~1080p render res) actually produces a more stable and sometimes better looking image than native 1080p, particularly in Cyberpunk. This makes the ~5-8% fps hit of running 2160p Performance Mode worth it over native 1080p. It would be nice to see what you guys think about this and if others experience the same thing.
@KarlDag
@KarlDag Жыл бұрын
Absolutely! Originally DLSS was there to take you to 4K with a GPU that wasn't powerful enough to render native 4K. Now if you're running a 4090, sure you can choose native vs DLSS, but that's a far cry from most people's need. Native 4K doesn't perform nearly the same as DLSS 4k.
@MichaelChan0308
@MichaelChan0308 Жыл бұрын
This is unreal... you guys are putting out informative in-depth videos so frequently from hardware unboxed, hub clips and monitors unboxed, I have difficulty catching up and watching all of them! I highly suspect DLSS 4.0 video generation trickery has been used =P
@xxQbeXxx
@xxQbeXxx Жыл бұрын
awesome video, pretty much confirms my experience with high res + dlss quality
@metacob
@metacob Жыл бұрын
Whenever I see DLSS/FSR in a video: looks almost like native, even performance mode looks great Whenever I use them in a game: blurry mess, might as well use monitor upscaling
@wynard
@wynard Жыл бұрын
This tech has gotten so good lately, the very small issues that can be seen if you really look for it do not bother me.
@fernandochapa1433
@fernandochapa1433 9 ай бұрын
Fr I can play with Dlss performance and I dont mind the “issues” because of the FPS gains
@MorbidHunter
@MorbidHunter Жыл бұрын
I always noticed that DLDSR + DLSS quality looked way better than native 1440p while performing better or the same
@mmshakeel
@mmshakeel Жыл бұрын
Salute to Tim and Steve for the awesome content.
@SirJohnsonP
@SirJohnsonP Жыл бұрын
This is a software uplift and it should be free when you buy their gpu, but they upsell it with this ludacris gpu pricing… if people continue buying their stories, I expect them to sell it as a monthly service
@HandsomeAlex25
@HandsomeAlex25 Жыл бұрын
That's very interesting. I didn't expect DLSS or FSR to match and even beat the native rendering. I guess it's because the TAA is not a great anti-aliasing technology... and hey, I'll take free performance with a better image any time! Thanks for the detailed look!
@robertcarhiboux3164
@robertcarhiboux3164 Жыл бұрын
native is better than TAA most of the time, it creates blurryness, I even prefer the jaggies to this technology.
@damara2268
@damara2268 Жыл бұрын
@@robertcarhiboux3164 most people hate the jaggies, including me. It just looks so bad that I can't stop looking at the jaggies moving around over edges instead of enjoying the game
@dante19890
@dante19890 Жыл бұрын
@@robertcarhiboux3164 U have to use Native with TAA or otherwise u get a very unstable image
@robertcarhiboux3164
@robertcarhiboux3164 Жыл бұрын
@@damara2268 I hate jaggies, but TAA even more. I prefer MSAA x4 but it's less and less available.
@robertcarhiboux3164
@robertcarhiboux3164 Жыл бұрын
@@damara2268 TAA is blurry and even worse than jaggies. I prefer MSAA but when the game does not have it I use DSR 4.0x when my GPU can handle it (with minimum smoothing factor like 6%). I also like very much the hitman resolution upscale. It's the only game in which it really improved the sharpness of the image with no particular downside. Even performancewise it was better than DSR.
@rickinielsen1
@rickinielsen1 Жыл бұрын
Interesting video. If anyone had asked me, I would never have thought any of the upscaling solutions would ever be better native. But it does make sense with titles that haven’t implemented proper high-end graphic features. Might even be a great way to visually overhaul older games if you can simply tack DLSS/FSR on to it, rather than having to update the core mechanics of the engine...
@konga382
@konga382 Жыл бұрын
"Better than native" presentations are made possible due to shortcomings in the anti-aliasing solutions most games use, and it doesn't have anything to do with the games' age or graphical feature support. And DLSS/FSR2 require quite a bit of work on the engine side to get a good implementation of since these are temporal upscalers. You need extensive motion vector support at the very least. You do not simply tack these features on. And with motion vectors, you can also do good-quality TAA, which would reduce the need for DLSS/FSR to begin with.
@FranzKafkaRockOpera
@FranzKafkaRockOpera Жыл бұрын
It makes sense if you think about modern anti-aliasing techniques like TAA, which are essentially DLSS without (usually) the upscaling element, i.e., they look at past frames to reconstruct a smoother image than the native raster. Otoh I think those would be tough to implement in older games without some quite noticeable artefacts: what makes DLSS good is that it can look at depth information, motion vectors, and so on in order to create a coherent image, and old engines just don't have the capacity to communicate that info.
@detail___5387
@detail___5387 Жыл бұрын
Aren't we talking about antialiasing quality though? I can tell the difference in Hogwarts for example between DLSS performance and Native in terms of overall resolution, DLSS performance looks blurred in comparison. The aliasing is cleaner for sure but the image is noticeably lower res imo.
@Omen09
@Omen09 Жыл бұрын
The problem of quality of upscalers is not that it looks worse or better, but in higher res it changes settings for lod granting you more assets to work with. If you cuold overwrite that we could actually use it as legitimate aa without using details
@Cptraktorn
@Cptraktorn Жыл бұрын
in my opinion the boost in FPS is ALWAYS worth using DLSS in quality at minimum. sure in some games the ghosting will be noticeable but with higher fps you see more detail than at a lower fps and higher (native) res.
@2xKTfc
@2xKTfc Жыл бұрын
It's funny how everyone complains to no end about tearing/vsync but now crappy ghosting is somehow acceptable. Gamers really buy into everything..
@Verpal
@Verpal Жыл бұрын
@@2xKTfc Ghosting can be fixed with a simple DLSS dll replacement, unless you are on multiplayer competitive title.... which you would probably have plenty of FPS to begin with.
@Cptraktorn
@Cptraktorn Жыл бұрын
@@2xKTfc I've got a g-sync monitor so tearing isnt exactly an issue for me. It's up to you if you think playing at a lower framerate, with blurry motion and higher input lag is worse than a small amount of ghosting.
@jaroslavmrazek5752
@jaroslavmrazek5752 Жыл бұрын
It would be good to point out that the image differs a lot based on the DLSS version which can be mostly replaced in a matter of minutes, for example the DLSS in RDR2 is trash but when replaced with version 2.5.1 it looks amazing.
@DavidFregoli
@DavidFregoli Жыл бұрын
unless there's a convenient method that scales for every owner (possibly GF Experience integration) or an always up-to-date table somewhere that matches game to dlss version this is an impractical solution that only a few enthusiast will research. Nvidia hasn't even been able to stay on top ReBar On/Off per-game settings as shown by HUB so not much to place trust on here.
@breeminator
@breeminator Жыл бұрын
He covered that with that exact game in the final thoughts. It maybe deserved a section of its own, as people probably don't expect new information to be provided in the final thoughts section.
@jaroslavmrazek5752
@jaroslavmrazek5752 Жыл бұрын
@@DavidFregoli there is an app called DLSS swapper that makes it dead simple
@Wildmutationblu
@Wildmutationblu Жыл бұрын
I think you might have gotten your pics mixed up for the Spider-Man comparison as the hair on the DLSS Quality mode looks betther than the native 4k pic @5:09
@prman9984
@prman9984 Жыл бұрын
The rain looked awful in Hitman DLSS. How could you look at that and come to that conclusion?
@xxovereyexx5019
@xxovereyexx5019 Жыл бұрын
Native is GIGACHAD, no downscaling/upscaling, pure raw performance ftw!
@surft
@surft Жыл бұрын
DLSS Quality is really good most of the time so I usually turn it on when available.
@rENEGADE666JEDI
@rENEGADE666JEDI Жыл бұрын
If there is no rt or smoke in the game, Upscaling works fine. Otherwise, a lot of noise is created
@CZ_Aesthetic
@CZ_Aesthetic Жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks for the hard work! Got one question, why is DLSS and FSR creating totally blurry image in Warzone 2? Running 4090 at 1440p. Thanks for the insight!
@CriticalPotato
@CriticalPotato Жыл бұрын
Sounds like you lack enough VRAM for the settings you are running and the textures fail to load in as a result. Watch your VRAM usage and lower settings until you are not at your VRAM limit. Watch HUB's video on the 3070 vs RX 6800, specifically the Forspoken part to see an example of it.
@CZ_Aesthetic
@CZ_Aesthetic Жыл бұрын
@@CriticalPotato are you sure about that? Im running 4090 at 1440p UW.
@YTSkyFire
@YTSkyFire Жыл бұрын
Thanks again for the hard work
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