Im glad there's all these competing materials now, however, lets stress that if your hiking bag is in good condition and you plan on getting a replacement, please resell it or give it away. All the good from ecopack will be pretty wasteful if everyone throws their old bags away in response. I've sold and purchased old bags on ebay and it always feels good knowing that an item that brought you many good memories will continue to do the same for someone else.
@AggyGoesOutdoors2 жыл бұрын
I believe the Dyneema patent ends in 2024 in Europe, once that happens the price will come down from its current artificial inflated position and multiple manufactures will be able to produce it.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That's very interesting!
@undefinednull57492 жыл бұрын
But that is only for the original dyneema version? What about all the improved versions like the dyneema SK99 or later?
@AggyGoesOutdoors2 жыл бұрын
@@undefinednull5749 I don't know, but I would be interested to learn more from you. 👍
@TheMidnightModder Жыл бұрын
That's great news!! Gonna snatch me a Durston X-Mid 1 Pro if it does!
@smashthestateX11 ай бұрын
no it wont, its very hard to make dyneema and you wont suddenly see bags on the store shelf, so price wont come down. and that only in europe
@mikekraut76432 жыл бұрын
In the interview RBTR did with the guy from Challenge, it didn’t sound like they were looking to develop any sub-1oz fabrics, so Dyneema will likely still be king for tarps and rain flys.
@arbitraryalias9825 Жыл бұрын
Looking forward to some multi-year reviews to see how these materials hold up.
@brycewalburn39262 жыл бұрын
Exciting! I can't to pick up some gear with these new fabrics in 5 years when it's maybe almost affordable.
@everyoneknowsadave35802 жыл бұрын
😂😂
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
It's not bad for the backpacks I've seen using it.
@babiesfartingfire60072 жыл бұрын
Buy "used"
@jaydecoster50562 жыл бұрын
*inflation has entered the chat*
@moyashisoba2 жыл бұрын
My new backpack is made out of U200 and I have to say, it's really good. For my tent I still love dyneema. Alone for the crinkled look and the light passing through.
@nky_brad5032 жыл бұрын
I think EcoPak will be a great alternative for X-Pac very soon. I don’t see it ever “de-throning” Dyneema but definitely being a strong alternate. The bonus with EcoPak is the environmental impact. It’ll be interesting to see the impact it makes in the market, especially as more variations of EcoPak come out.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
I just love having options.
@nky_brad5032 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley Absolutely! Once Waymark drops the new ultra EVLV in their store, that’s my next pack for sure!
@richvrm2 жыл бұрын
This is great! I know I had a hard time getting my recent backpack due to difficulty getting xpack. Also always excited to see companies making products more environmentally friendly. Thank you!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Yeah. It's some really interesting stuff.
@marciom16402 жыл бұрын
Dyneema is the lowest carbon footprint by far! Produced with zero emissions from bio based fiber and produced with renewable energy.
@lilricky25152 жыл бұрын
So the answer to the question in the video's title is, No. Dyneema is not dead. The big elephant in the room for these "new" fabrics is the cost. Dyneema is still less expensive, mainly due to the cost of recycling to make Ecopak. Thankfully, dyneema has been using recycled material for the past year due to a partnership with Clariter.
@trailheadjunkie2 жыл бұрын
I can vouch for this video as I own a few EcoPak bags and they are worth every penny. Im excited the industry wants to move more into recycled materials. I will be replacing my aging Gregory 48L to the new Ecopak. Great video JK! We need to see more KZfaqrs talk about this topic.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@trailheadjunkie2 жыл бұрын
@@sebastianforbes1 in the outdoor community nothing should be considered buying “twice”. You pay it forward by donating your gear to someone else who cannot afford one or trade them in to companies who will gladly buy it back.
@toesockoutdoors36272 жыл бұрын
I’m not the best at algebra, but I think if they were all 45 degree angles, they’d be octagons😁
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
LOL!!! Yeah....math isn't my thing. 😂🤦🏻♂️
@Oldsparkey2 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed your enthusiasm about the new materials being used today. One problem , you are preaching to the choir in my case. Been then & have witnessed the very same things but for a little longer. In my 77 years of life about 65 have been in the outdoors , enjoying what it offers. I started with external framed canvas bags & packs , tents and other gear. Then witnessed the changes in equipment thru the ages. When Cuben fiber came out , the latest and greatest material for tents , packs and tarps. Might as well include the Titanium camping products. My total gear ( Today's Ultralight Gear ) weighs less then my 1st tent back then.( especially when it was wet ..LOL. ) Now you have & are witnessing the same evolutionary process in equipment. Try to imagine the changes you will see in your life , I couldn't , and still can't. One guarantee... It will always get better no matter how much you liked , enjoyed , the old gear. Nothing smells like camping more then a Canvas tent in the morning. Excluding Bacon and Coffee cooking over the mornings campfire. lol
@world_stepper2 жыл бұрын
If is made out of recycled plastic, it's still made out of plastic. What's the difference? Effective marketing is effective. Does it make you feel better knowing that you're wearing something that was "supposedly" once garbage? When it's gets old and you throw it away will it still be garbage or will it be once recycled twice garbage, and thats better? It's still not lighter than dyneema. What's dyneema hybrid?
@mikemullins80202 жыл бұрын
Great info John. My biggest concern is cost. Can you do some comparison on the cost difference?
@mikekraut76432 жыл бұрын
Ecopak is under half the price of the heavier weigh DCF used in packs
@DrewBoswell2 жыл бұрын
Price of DCF is one of its cons. I'm wondering if the price of Eco will have the effect of bringing down the price of DCF?
@DarkSoulBaja2 жыл бұрын
The thing to understand is "dyneema" is a brand name like "Band-AIDS", makes uhmw-pe fibers. There are plenty of off brands of UHMW-pe fibers, and i would guess this is such a product. What generally makes Dyneema better than the competitors, is that they've been at it much longer and have worked out all the kinks, and have been improving their product since its conception. UHMW is widely available and has been for a very long time, but the process to turn it into such fibers is relatively new, it's inevitable that someone will start to invest in the tech. Whether they can catch up remains to be seen.
@joshualarue33352 жыл бұрын
Seek outside is making packs in ecopack right now.
@dc2090 Жыл бұрын
Is dyneema, crinkly, stiff, when cold? more likely ti rip/tear/crack in cold weather?
@TheBser972 жыл бұрын
Just ordered the new Zpacks Arc Haul Ultra, which is made with Ultra 200 material. Super excited to check it out! The backpack (without accessories) weights in at 20.5 ounces
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Nice. I've heard good things about that.
@leecegal2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm interesting! Can’t wait for more updates on this
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Me too.
@Judaddy12 жыл бұрын
One important difference between the xpac and 200ultra is the ability to seam seal the ultra fabric due to the laminated side. I wonder if it will ever replace tent or tarp material, don’t know if it can get that thin
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That is one huge positive.
@amadei22 жыл бұрын
you can actually seam tape x-pac, the rx version.
@scotthicks9192 жыл бұрын
Check out the RipstopByTheRoll podcast where the founder of Ecopak was interviewed. Sounds like they are working on a thinner version for tarps and tents right now. Game Changer!
@Judaddy12 жыл бұрын
@@scotthicks919 game changer IF the price comes down considerably lol
@Shane74922 жыл бұрын
Ultra is better for backpacks, but DCF is definitely not dead for tents, tarps, and stuff sacks.
@shawnr61172 жыл бұрын
Let's hope all this new competition helps bring down the cost to a more reasonable level
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That would be amazing
@shawnr61172 жыл бұрын
@Gone Awry but that wouldn't be hiker bling. Don't you know hiking is all about showing off your latest gear to everyone even if it's just the squirrels 🐿️🐿️😆
@marciom16402 жыл бұрын
Dyneema is produced in the USA, paying decent salaries and full benefits. Dyneema is Bio based, produced with zero emissions and 100% renewable energy. Dyneema is the strongest fiber and lowest carbon footprint. Doing the right things doesn’t come cheap
@alorr4uz2 жыл бұрын
Is it as light as dyneema and cheaper? I'd love for competition to bring prices down.
@leelowder88242 жыл бұрын
I ordered a Unaweep 4800 from Seek Outside made in Ultra 400 not even realizing it is a new fabric so now I'm really excited to try it out. Lol. Thanks for the info.
@brandonsmith16472 жыл бұрын
Love the innovation! Hopefully it sticks around, as it’s taken me 5+ years and thousands of dollars to dial in my dyneema gear load out for ground and hammock camping. I’m hesitant to start replacing with a new material as X Pak seemed to be the new exciting material very recently, but has fallen fast for Ecopak. I guess we will see what happens in the next year or so.
@MovementDrifter2 жыл бұрын
I'm still totally happy using sil nylon for everything but my backpack, prefer how small it packs down and still have a sub 4kg base weight. you don't have to upgrade just because there's something new/better! although I know how tempting new camping gear is...
@KingdomFTX2 жыл бұрын
@@MovementDrifter What ultralight tent do you use?
@MovementDrifter2 жыл бұрын
@@KingdomFTX I use a bunch of stuff. Generally try to stick to the more budget gear too MLD Duomid (sil-nylon version) if I know the weather will be bad. Around 700gm I think Aricxi tarp tent (15d sil-nylon, from aliexpress) if there's good weather. around 320gm Either with a ground sheet or the inner, again depending on bugs/weather. Mostly I prefer to hammock camp though
@DoseofDirt2 жыл бұрын
Seriously cool stuff! I'm super excited to see what manufacturers can do with this fabric. Will be interesting to see if/when someone tries tarps or tents (or maybe they already have!). Great overview!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That's something I'm interested in, too!
@KingdomFTX2 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley are there tents made from this yet?
@BackpackingwithBuckley2 жыл бұрын
Bravo John! Explained very well!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Buckley!
@SouthernHike2 жыл бұрын
Enjoying it so far!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
I'm definitely a fan
@thehikingcucumber34102 жыл бұрын
Nice AG hoodie. I like the color choice
@Joey_Joey_Joey2 жыл бұрын
What about the use of ecopak in tents? Thanks for the video!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
I can only imagine that these companies are looking into it.
@livingsimplytosimplylive68172 жыл бұрын
Wow very enlightening
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@johnphillips35262 жыл бұрын
Just got a new UL pack from Nashville Packs made from Ultra. Absolutely LOVE it!
@dimagass7801 Жыл бұрын
Maybe this is a stupid question but wouldn't a triangle be stronger than a diamond or square?
@youflatscreentube2 жыл бұрын
Big question: cost ?
@wisenber2 жыл бұрын
The problem with Ecopak is that it's laminated. Sails made from Challenge sailcloth (Ecopak) don't last as long as their Dacron (polyester) counterparts as laminants tend to delaminate. Think of that eVent jacket that started flaking apart inside at year four. Out of the box, it has good characteristics; however, it won't survive as long as its competitors that aren't laminated. If you're buying new gear every couple of years, it won't matter. If you keep your gear for years, it does. The "recycled" aspect doesn't appeal to me as much, as I tend to purchase gear with the intention of keeping it for years instead of tossing it in a landfill. That being said UHMWPE isn't dead by any stretch, then again, it doesn't stretch much.
@BenMcmillen2 жыл бұрын
Dyneena is laminated in its construction as well. Of course different materials and possibly different adhesives. Time will certainly tell
@wisenber2 жыл бұрын
@@BenMcmillen I thought it was woven?...then I looked it up after your post. My primary use tend to be for sailboat rigging. I've used sails made from both Challenge and DCF, but I rely on Dacron when I require endurance over performance. A fabric that doesn't endure doesn't tend to perform in the long run.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if using the fabric for sails is more intense on the fabric or if backpacking is. I've had xpac packs for several years, and I'm having no issues with them, and they're laminated as well. Definitely something to think about. Great stuff!
@BenMcmillen2 жыл бұрын
@@wisenber you can add an additional woven layer to dyneena like their 2.92 or 5.0 for added abrasion resistance. This is what packs are made of. But the lighter dyneena, 1.43, 1.0, .51 is not woven. The dyneema strands themselves are not woven.
@wisenber2 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley It's not so much intensity as to the types of stresses. A sail isn't likely to get drug over rocks or encounter thorns. A pack isn't going to have thousands of pounds of dynamic windforces in a saltwater environment. A pack also isn't likely to have the same level of continuous UV exposure that a sail will either. You're also not relying on a sail to keep anything dry. The biggest benefit I got from Dyneema on a sailboat was getting rid of the heavy steel cables that didn't allow faults to be detected easily and replacing it with a material light enough to float and actually stretched less than steel while making failures more visible. Laminated sails stretch less and provide more performance potential at the expense of longevity, reliability and field repair. Meanwhile, my old GoLite Pinnacle made from xpac is going strong thousands of miles later.
@Wookiemonsterfreak2 ай бұрын
Cost of materials? Can an DIY’r order up yards at a reasonable price?
@SeniorHiker772 жыл бұрын
Thanks John great information ✌
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
No Problem!
@MattTheDesigner2 жыл бұрын
HOT TAAAKKE. I just learned about this a few days ago. Thanks for the info.
@dbasarich Жыл бұрын
Awesome video...thanks.
@donberry2 жыл бұрын
I picked up a 1733 Side Pack in Ultra200 and love it.
@TubaSolotheHiker2 жыл бұрын
Ecopak = Witchcraft. DCF, Sil Polyester & Xpac = The Lord's Work. Now that we've established this baseline, I'm possibly interested in this witchcraft you speak of.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂
@mateobeans37872 жыл бұрын
Companies already know that there customers will pay outrageous prices to have the lightest tent / backpack know matter what it’s made from....!
@jtpromolab2 жыл бұрын
I have a toilet paper tent that is SOOO light. Not very durable tho
@samuelfox81266 ай бұрын
For backpacks, Dyneema makes little sense. Tensile strength means nothing when rubbing against rocks. With tents there's a good case for dyneema but nylon and polyester are strong enough. But on dyneema if you get a hole in that very thin PET layer your tent is leaking.
@KrizAkoni2 жыл бұрын
I’m still hooked on the full woven Spectra packs of the early 90s…
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Vintage gear! I hate that the 90's are considered vintage. 🤦🏻♂️
@KrizAkoni2 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley At just over 2lbs, I find it hard to buy something else.
@markcummings68562 жыл бұрын
Kriz, any particulars?
@williamsmith5842 жыл бұрын
I noticed that a big portion of the video focused on sustainability and I want to make sure the community knows that DCF is made from bio-based Dyneema.
@geifwijfheigvwis Жыл бұрын
well dynemia was used by MIT to build ultralight ultrathin solar cells that can also be woven into fabric... so I dunno...
@davidson_oldbull_sectionhiker2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for a very informative video John . Take Care
@WasatchWill2 жыл бұрын
Great and informative video! Fascinating and exciting stuff.
@elliotw59182 жыл бұрын
I've just recently started making drybags for sale and I am gonna have to start using some xpac now
@cibablea Жыл бұрын
You are rad, man. Great breakdown. I'm in for ecopak.
@zanthornton2 жыл бұрын
Excellent topic and great presentation!
@boysinthewoods4189 Жыл бұрын
Might be recycled. In Ten years will you recycle the bag to keep it out of landfills or the ocean?
@ChristopherMarshburn2 жыл бұрын
Interesting video. But what I want to know is why apparently no company has yet tried using one of these new fabric alternatives in a tent. It’s also pretty remarkable that the giants like Osprey and Gregory still aren’t using anything other than nylon. Is that a function of supply, that is are the alternative fabrics not being manufactured in a quantity sufficient to supply the big companies?
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Another commenter mentioned the weight of the fabric in it's current form is the problem. An ultra 200 tent would weigh around 4 or 5 pounds. The dyneema used in tents is currently at .55oz a yard and ultra in over 5oz a yard. Once they can make a thin enough version that's got the tensile strength to do it, it'll happen.
@BenMcmillen2 жыл бұрын
The weight difference in a dry bag, stuff sack or bear bag is minimal for ecopak vs dyneema. But spread that out over an entire tent and the weight difference becomes significant and at the same price. So... just not there yet
@GojiraNeko Жыл бұрын
osprey isnt using DCF or ultra because of their durability issues. both have a tendency to delaminate over time. that doesnt work well with ospreys all mighty guarantee that covers a backpack for its lifetime. they do use a few UHMWPE fabrics like a ripstop fabric in some of their "pro" line of backpacks... like the exos pro 55. AFAIK tho these fabrics are not laminated. they are a lot lighter tho than the standard nylon that osprey uses in its packs. they have at least 3 different pro packs and each one uses a different fabric for its main construction from the other packs as far as im aware of.
@hikersynthesizer10 ай бұрын
Hopefully the strain on materials and urge to save the environment doesn't compromise the importance of durability in ultralight gear. Dyneema doesn't age as well as silnylon but it's positive qualities are impossible to ignore. Still I use silnylon over a decade old on multiple thru hikes with no deformation. My fear is that one day I'll be sleeping inside a $1,000 plastic grocery bag.
@shoresy61832 жыл бұрын
Certainly exciting alternative for backpacks, but they'll need to make a lighter ULTRA fabric (maybe a future ULTRA 100?) before this can be used for tents / shelters. I contacted Zpacks to see if they would be making an Altaplex in the near future made of ULTRA 200, because who wouldn't want the added benefits of the ULTRA 200 material (tear strength and wear resistance) right? The Altaplex is made out of a much lighter DCF that is 0.55 oz/sqyd for the canopy and the floor is 1 oz/sqyd. Compare that to ULTRA 200 that is 3.5 oz/sqyd. According to Zpacks an Altaplex made from ULTRA 200 material would be 4 to 5 lbs!!! I did some research online that said ULTRA 200 is 5.9 oz/sqyd. For comparison, the Altaplex made from 0.55 oz/sqyd DCF and 1 oz/sqyd DCF is 15.4 oz. Equivalent tent constructed from ULTRA would be 4 to 5 lbs (according to Zpacks). Not exactly light! Like the rest of the hiking community, I am very excited to see a new material on the market. Hopefully in the future, they'll be able to engineer a lighter weight ULTRA / EcoPack material comparable to the lightweight DCF fabrics that can be used for shelters.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That would definitely be awesome
@hampusolsson80072 жыл бұрын
Ultra 100 is already out there, check out the new Zpacks Arc Haul Ultra or SWD Movement pack :)
@shaunmc19102 жыл бұрын
Ultra100 will work for backpacks. Some cottage vendors are testing it out. Swd has some. I think DCF will be around a while still. I have three DCF tents and a DCF back from Nashville Packs. It’s still very very good product. I have some ultra200 that ima make a bear bag out of.
@MRBenchwork Жыл бұрын
I'm curious to know how this stuff gets seamed together. Is it strictly a stitched together product or can it be thermally welded or chemically bonded (glued) together.
@scottbaxter-green13722 жыл бұрын
Cost comparisons ???
@Jantonvid2 жыл бұрын
You really should be mentioning upfront that this is a sponsored video, or that they sent your stuff for free.
@alexmarchica52642 жыл бұрын
Great video my man!
@BackpackingWithJason2 жыл бұрын
I really like how it’s using recycled water bottles. Cool video brother 👊🏻
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, brother! I enjoyed that off road video of yours!
@mobilewintercamp75152 жыл бұрын
This seems great, looks like it’s all superior in every category. Is it cheaper, that would really be nice 😊
@mikeschenk66892 жыл бұрын
This doesn't mean Dyneema is dead. It means Dyneema will be mainstream- will be more affordable and available to more backpackers.
@DaveOffGrid2 жыл бұрын
Definitely a hot topic in the space right now! I'm curious, in your research how did the weight of epx stand up to dyneema/ultra? In what I've found it appears to be heavier. epx seems the most eco-friendly right now. Seems like ultra will dethrone dcf, it's slightly more expensive but has all the properties of dcf while being more durable. nice video JK!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Epx should be compared more with xpac. That's really the competitor for that product. I have two epx packs right now, and they're both performing incredibly.
@marciom16402 жыл бұрын
Dyneema is the strongest fiber and lowest carbon footprint. Made in the USA, with bio based polymer, 100% renewable energy and zero emissions. Paying decent salaries and full benefits to American workers. Unfortunately these other materials I guess can’t claim the same….
@christopherhaak98242 жыл бұрын
@@marciom1640 That is completely false. Dyneema is a composite of PET and UHMWPE that is highly oriented. Both of those materials are straight up petroleum products and two of the highest volume polymers in the world.
@YankeeWoodcraft8 ай бұрын
Dyneema always was overkill for ultralight backpacking. Wanna get kicked off of an ultralight backpacking group on social media quick? Ask them why do they need to spend $400 on a pack made of such a strong fabric if they're only carrying 10lbs of gear in their packs? 😂 Amazon is selling packs that weigh 33oz for $45 and not only are they of a decently sturdy nylon, but they're framed AND fully featured (lid, well padded shoulder straps & waist belt with pockets, rain cover, etc...).
@markswishereatsstuff25002 жыл бұрын
Is this like a I gotta buy The White Album as a CD now even though I have the cassette?
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
😂
@AndrewDasilvaPLT10 ай бұрын
How man miles have you hiked this year?
@Rgrrgr1752 жыл бұрын
I’d like to see the death of $600 one person tents. Let’s go tent makers, get those costs down!
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That may be something we'll be hoping for for a long time....with no payoff. 😭😂
@nedanother93822 жыл бұрын
how much is the right price in your mind? and why, if you will? I'll argue that even at the top of the top of the line gear....for 2500.00 I could outfit a person for any non expedition hike in the world for many years to come. No one would have better or lighter gear. Short of some board games what could you do cheaper than that? I used to say a racket sport maybe...on public courts. But the best racket is more expensive. Boat, fish, hunt, cycling, quads, other desert stuff, horse riding.....everything is more expensive (and less fulfilling) than 2500.00. and at that you have the best gear available for years. It's only this way because someone can build a far inferior product that looks the same but isn't. You are comparing dyneema gear to a fake rolex. It's not apples to apples and while I expect many young people don't have the funds for the best of the best, it would be the same for any hobbie, it doesn't mean that these things are over priced. You'd think I worked for these knuckleheads....I just hear it so much and its just less true than many think. You have a great day - and you better get it at 600.00 before it goes up. That was the exact excuse I gave my wife - eventually zpacks was gonna figure out they had the best tent as well as one of the cheapest in the class. They did and now mine is 700.00. It's a lot but once you pull the bandaide off it really is a great tent.
@markcummings68562 жыл бұрын
@@nedanother9382 haha. So true
@mikekraut76432 жыл бұрын
Hello fren
@ramb0r0kr8882 жыл бұрын
Dyneema is way better at not absorbing the water and staying a lot lighter when wet. I would be more convinced to transition if that was the key feature epx.
@RichardKeysoftware2 жыл бұрын
The one pack to rule them all is the SWD Long Haul in Ultra 200 - waterproof, stronger and lighter. Def would be interested in the point of saving a few oz of co2 when we have multiple volcanoes spewing thousands if not millions of pounds into the atmosphere...
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That's a great pack, and all the volcano activity lately is just crazy!
@Matthew-px9nu11 ай бұрын
Not actually waterproof though , you can seam seal though
@BenMcmillen2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the shoutout !
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Any time!
@bertman42 жыл бұрын
Backpacks, sure. Tents, not yet.
@jahb0b420Ай бұрын
Its not completely waterproof, so why would i want this? Still gotta go dyneema
@Luke-ve3sx2 жыл бұрын
The Hilltop Packs 50W is made by challenge sailcloth but it is not part of the Ecopak line nor is it recycled…
@BenMcmillen2 жыл бұрын
It certainly is recycled and is part of the ecpak line. It's just not on their website.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Yeah. It’s definitely part of the ecopak line and recycled.
@Luke-ve3sx2 жыл бұрын
@@BenMcmillen what is the 50w’s product name from challenge (Ex. EPX200 is the new Xpac alternative you guys are using)?
@BenMcmillen2 жыл бұрын
@@Luke-ve3sx it's not on their website. You won't find it. Not sure what your point is.
@Luke-ve3sx2 жыл бұрын
@@BenMcmillen my point is, according to challenge sailcloth directly, your 50w is the following; (directly quoted from CS via email) It is called DTRS75 this is all virgin polyester, not recycled. D: it is made specifically for Dhow boats that are raced in the Middle East. TRS: Triple Ripstop 75: .75mil polyester film backing Are you saying this is incorrect or it is not the same fabric that you are using?
@richardbartley30892 жыл бұрын
Cool bit what about cost.
@rigorevangelista9875 Жыл бұрын
Is ECOpak 50W can be used for tarp?
@salinsoulok3338Ай бұрын
I thought this was about the armor side of things not backpacking
@kedragon6460 Жыл бұрын
Grüsse aus Deutschland Heilbronn, das ist ja geil das EPL Ultra, danke für den Tip.
@tj_hikes2 жыл бұрын
just waiting for zpacks to get on an ecopak plexsolo lol
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Right?!?!?!?
@ChopperOutdoors2 жыл бұрын
Is it any cheaper?
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
The price is roughly the same. In some cases, a little more. In others, a little less. It really just depends on the company.
@DetraDearmas2 жыл бұрын
You compared all but the price. Dyneema is expensive, loud and flimsy. Don't have any, don't want any. Can't Wait for it to be a thing of the past.
@mackjenkins77212 жыл бұрын
Man those bags were nice John. The material look very nice on it too. That's awesome to hear how good it handles in rough condition man. Good Video buddy thank you for sharing.
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Mack!
@simonbeliveau68522 жыл бұрын
good for backpacks, but nowhere near as lightweight for tents and tarps, dyneema is here to stay
@MidwestBackpacker2 жыл бұрын
Cool video bro! I may have watched 3 times. 😂 The different names are a little confusing. Not real impressed with the first two fabrics. Really want to see Ultra. Price of the 3 and dyneema about the same?
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
From what I've seen they're about the same if not a little cheaper.
@gracefulonthetrail22442 жыл бұрын
I hope it’s cheaper. That would get more people out into nature.
@christianb82282 жыл бұрын
It is cheaper, and a little bit heavier, but it’s more durable then Dyneema. How ever DCF hybrids like the one HMG uses for their packs is very durable so you get the benefits of Dyneema without sacrificing much durability, also gear companies are using thin dinewhich is why I use an HMG pack my self. Dyneema is hands down still the best material for gear it’s 15x stronger then steel there’s a reason it’s still the most expensive fabric
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
It's comparable on pretty much every level. Justin Sylvester from "It's Good In The Woods" actually took a piece of the 50W and has been actively trying to tear it, and he isn't making a dent. He's even getting other people to try. You should check out his video.
@christianb82282 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley interesting, I have to check that out, it’s definitely a cool new fabric and very comparable to Dyneema making it ideal for backpacking gear. Exciting times…
@barrysotero137 Жыл бұрын
Protective plates.
@HikeRx2 жыл бұрын
hopefully, with competition, prices will come down
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
That would be glorious!
@marciom16402 жыл бұрын
Dyneema is produced in the USA, paying decent salaries and full benefits, produced with 100% renewable energy, bio based fiber, and zero emissions. Dyneema the strongest fiber with lowest carbon footprint. To protect the people and the environment don’t come for free. Unfortunately the “other materials” I guess can’t claim any of that! Ask them these questions
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
@@marciom1640 Dyneema is made in the Netherlands by DSM
@marciom16402 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley Dyneema largest production facility is in Greenville North Carolina, USA e DCF is produced in Mesa Arizona, USA. Dyneema has a site in the Netherlands but the fiber is not used in DCF. So, Dyneema for DCF is produced in the USA, with bio based polymer, 100% renewable energy, zero emissions, and paying decent salaries and full benefits……it is the strongest fiber with lowest carbon footprint.
@keithyoung95732 жыл бұрын
Is it cheaper
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
It really just depends on the company selling it. It seems to be basically the same price.
@keithyoung95732 жыл бұрын
@@john_kelley ok thank you for your videos the really help me out
@nawwk792 жыл бұрын
Ultimately DCF is still lighter than this new fabric.
@Canadian_Craftsman2 жыл бұрын
#IAMANERD!! haha appreciate the input and thorough investigation brotha!!😁✌️💚
@bmayo87902 жыл бұрын
Just purchased and received an Ultra 20L Curve from LiteAf for my son. By far the best made pack I seen. The worst part of it is figuring out how to tell my wife the Hyperlite 3400 she bought me for Christmas isn’t going to work so I can order the larger ultra curve. Thanks LiteAf 🙄
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
😂Good luck!
@bmayo87902 жыл бұрын
Your next video should be “Good wives buy husbands Ultra LiteAf 46L Curves for Father’s Day”. That might help me out.
@markcummings68562 жыл бұрын
If interested in selling the 3400, let me know. I could shoot you my email. Thanks. Cheers
@surronzak8154 Жыл бұрын
The fisrt is exactly the same as dyneema, UHMWPE
@HrvojeKucic Жыл бұрын
is Dyneema dead?Yes if you could make ropes and slings from Ecopak, but I think it`s not possible, so...
@johnmichaels4330 Жыл бұрын
Co2 makes plants grow and thrive. Thanks for contributing to the stunting of the growth of plants we need due to deforestation. Smh... if only people looked at the actual science and could understand it. It's not that hard.
@InOurElement2 жыл бұрын
I have been wondering about all these new fabrics replacing dyneema for a while now. I think dyneema's days are numbered
@john_kelley2 жыл бұрын
We'll see. It really just depends on if it becomes more accessible. I've also seen where they expect the price of it to go down significantly after 2024, but it's worth monitoring.
@jamesfielden75612 жыл бұрын
Is it cheaper than DCF? If not, who cares. Silnylon 4ever!!!!
@barretharms6552 жыл бұрын
Nothing compares to dyneema you just said that and then proved it. Because all you're doing is recycling Polly nylon dyneema blends. So you're making cheap dinima want to bes.
@DUD3_BR02 жыл бұрын
I find it hilarious that these ultralighters pay so much money to essentially carry around a trash bag on their back, and think they're doing some service to nature.
@JohnSmith-xi2oq2 жыл бұрын
Not dead, just in a more competitive market. Ill stick with my dyneema
@scoobysid042 жыл бұрын
Zpacks ultra 200 is way better
@modestadventurers2 жыл бұрын
I prefer to employ an impoverished Cuban to carry all my gear as I found carrying my own equipment made me sweat. He’s 100% recyclable and only requires a minimal amount of discarded food to survive. USA USA USA. Sorry guys. Just had to.