echidna hard is a way worse prog experience than thaemine g3 hard.

Theamine is all about dps check. One died or two persons died. It isnt a problem. Some gigachad can carry you. Thats why they can bus 4c4. Edchina is the different story. You got charmed too much, u screw the whole team. One die before 137 kinda screw. Fail counter, screw. Bad call, bad sp, screw etc. One bad player, the whole team screw. The punishment is so hard that feel like pugging kinda impossible to clear.

cleared after 12h prog and i dont want to reclear again doing thaemine 1-3 normal is way more chill even with 1610 alts

After playing Echidna for the first week i can say for certain that yes Echidna is harder then Thaemine. Atleast the normal version vs the normal version, the first week we did Thaemine 1-3 without to much problem, Echidna we only did G1 and G2 our best try was around 25 bars.

Echidna is way harder than Thaemine G3. I guess the Koreans said it is easier when they compared it to G4. The reason why Echidna is far harder is because there are too many gimmicks that require perfect execution by all party members. Whereas in Thaemine, up to G4, you could still clear with 1-2 people dead, in Echidna, losing even 1 is far more punishing than in Thaemine. I cleared G3 on NM, despite having a HM character and even NM was an absolute fiasco on pug. I think I invested roughly 30+ hours and swapped dozens of lobbies until I finally got the clear. Clearly, whoever said that she is easier than Thaemine either referred to G4, or if not, they were on drugs. Hard mode is gonna be even worse. There is just way too much micromanagement to do. The 3 charm stacks, if unlucky, you can get them in a few seconds and get MCed. Managing tiles is also very tedious. My overall experience with this raid was absolutely horrible. Thaemine was a breeze compared to G2 Echidna.

Biggest difference between Echidna and all the other raids for the most part, is that Echidna clear is about how good your worst person is, where as Thaemine I can floor POV and my party can clear the raid without me. One death in Echidna can already complicate things. Also one thing I have noticed with my static is we have to push DMG super hard on normal to beat her before berzerk. It's not a complaint but I think this raid was built more around juiced KR accounts rather then NA where most aren't high enough for Thaemine Hard.

Roughly 15 hours for me in all pugs by myself. It felt damn hard until hitting the basement, and then another day or two of pugs and cleared. It just requires a lot alive to hit the dps check on the basement AND the 100% energy snake mech. Also, I think Lost Ark is punishing their player base so much lately with these difficult normal level raids. I hope Behemoth gives that breather along with ~6 month break before the next raid that is only two gates (conversely in the last 6 months we have had 3 raids with a total of 10 gates to learn and two extremely rough vertical progression systems).

I don't know if you're aware of not having a 1630 character, but the echidna's DPS check wasn't made for f2p. I'm f2p playing gunslinger which has a very low dps compared to the current meta, and when I went to do Thaemine, I felt like I didn't hit as much at first because I didn't know about the boss, but when I discovered how to do it, you could say that 6 gunslingers like me could finish. At Echidna I spent about 20 hours working hard, and it makes me sick to think that there must be a whale beating for me. I most of the standards and I feel like I learned if there were 9 gunmen like me in the looby she would still go berserk. And for comparison purposes, I have two gems with 10 damage, three cooldowns and a 24 weapon. I've been in loobys where there was a full gunslinger, and she had either less hit than me or very little more.

thaemine g3 nm took me about 10 hours of prog. echidna g2 nm took me around 25 hours. mainly just trying to find 7 other folk to not mess up. i like the mechanics in the fight generally, but holy crap it is infuriating when u wipe over and OVER cause of it.

Echidna G2 Hard was the exact same horrible Prog experience with Thaemine G3 HM. I actually think both Gates have about the same difficulty for me which is rather Normal/Easy. After a few hours of Prog i could clear both consistently and confidently. But for other people that is definitely not the Case. In Thaemine i got jailed in there for several days and couldnt clear because people kept dying in Phase 1 of the fight before the Horse. And the exact same thing happend again with Echidna where people just keep dying before getting to the basement. I ended up having to do Normal on Tuesday for several hours for both Raids to even get to finish that gate. Even though i had easiliy cleared Normal 1-3/1-2 on another character before. In Thaemine once i joined a good Reclear Lobby in Week 2 we actually Oneshot the Gate. I hope that it ends up beeing that way with Echidna aswell just that i find that group earlier. Knowing that you could easily clear the raid and still not getting the clear because other people just cant play the fkn game is the most horribly annoying feeling i have ever felt while playing Lost Ark and this alone almost got me to quit trying twice already. TLDR: I love both Thaemine and Echidna but absolutely hate the stupid people i have to play them with.

I haven’t tried yet, but I think it is great if the raids are hard and punish, for to get more challenging out of it

KR thought it was easier bc they had more gear creep bc they had more time to amass gold through their content drought and invest it. Similar NA characters get there with RMT or exceptional luck.

I really love the fight tbh

Thaemine is still a little more punishing due to fall deaths, echidna is close behind though

Solo raids are the future lol

As a someone who just cleared akkan hard , and didn't reach later raids yet , i'm prrety good at useing sleep nod for charm players thx to jails at vykes g2 lol so how veterans with thousands of hours more exp than me still have problem with that?!

cleared 1x echidna hm and 5x nm this week all in pugs. thaemine was definitely harder.

from a vairgrys player the experience was very bad, after the merge with NAE. The groups aren't accepting people from Vairgrys server.

hopefully ill b 1620 one day

i cleared 6x nm and 1x hm so far

Echidna is not hard most people just like to unga bunga and face tank most patterns and end up getting mc'd

3-5h per day from wednesday to monday on thae g3 2h per day on echidna cleared on saturday i don't agree with the not re-ing on thaemine on thaemine g3 deaths pre dps check is 100% re no matter if we can complete the dps check without them it's a 100% re deaths are only ignored once the dps check is done and during prog on thae g3 we were dropping off like flies constantly getting 1 shot bcz we'd get stacks or don't know how to deal with knockouts and even still g3 is a jail sometimes this week in fact i got jailed in a full 100flowers lobby then after i cleared echidna i went to unjail and had to bail on a 1650 bard bcz i was literally doing z with that guy on top on top of everyone biting the dust and flying off the arena for no reason aint no way people gonna sit and argue thaemine is easier aint no way thaemine will go in the records for most nerfed raids after brel very soon people just got used to full send goblining in thaemine as they got used to the patterns over 100s of hours in that fight and suddenly after 10h in prog they are throwing in the towel with echidna which constantly tells them to stop hitting, fk off and do the mech just do the mechs you damn goblins the raid completes itself

Echidna is cool but such a cancer fight, I’d rather do Thaemine Hard.

whats hard about echidna is your party members.

It took me around 6 hrs to prog G3 Theamine (normal mode) and 8 hours to prog G2 Echidna (normal mode). That being said, I feel like the reason it took so long is that for g2 echidna you have to wait for your weakest/slowest teammates to make fewer mistakes and resets happen fast because you need a certain amount of people to pass her wipe mechanics. Just for reference, out of last 30 wipes that we had in g2, I died only once, so it was mainly for me waiting for other people to get better at the fight - if I was not in a static and just jumped from pug to pug group that reflected my own progression level, I'd have probably cleared g2 in less than 4 hours. In contrast, in Theamine G3 if some people die, the others can still practice until you hit berserk or run out of people for clashes, meaning that better players got sufficient experience faster, so replacing slow learners or bad players after a certain number of pulls was extremely efficient. It's not true for Echidna - good players barely could have more experience compared to those who were on the floor because you need those players to actually live to see the later stages of the fight. Also, a lot of people actually cleared NM Theamine while being 1620 with a 40 set which way more than needed for that raid, whereas most people did NM Echidna on ilvl, and that matters a lot as you cannot muscle through the fight as much as you could in NM Theamine.

Echidna is fun and easy. The uptime on dmg is fun. There needs to be a personal DPS meter at least for people to see how much they're lacking.