The rear wheels on the prototype were not mounted in a pivoting pony truck, but in in a Cartazzi truck, where the axle boxes were fixed, and the wheel set moved transversely within them, hence the model is true to the original.

Two points. Firstly, the missing bufferbeam detail - 6:03 - is, I'd imagine, a plate to protect the AWS gear, which the LNER didn't use, so the omission is correct on a pre-Nationalisation loco. Secondly, the Cartazzi axle employed by the LNER is not a pony truck, so Hornby is correct in this. A pivoting Cartazzi truck is actually wrong, however much it is needed on the tighter curves that many modellers employ.

What I appreciate about your reviews is that you point out the good points of a model but you hold the manufacturer accountable for their lack of quality and shortcomings in the product. If Hornby is supposed to be the standard (I am from the States)in the UK and charge a premium price then there should be be accountability. I am glad you help the working class folks know how and where they spend their hard earned money.

I take issue with the common retelling of the history of the Thompson Pacifics. Simon A.C. Martin’s book Edward Thompson Wartime C.M.E. sets the record straight using records that previous historians did not have access too.

I don't know much about the A2/3, so thank you for taking a look at one. There are also four A2/1s that were built from incomplete V2s, which Hornby has yet to model. I think the finish on this model reflects how LNER apple green was applied after WWII. The builders plate does look a bit messy to me.

I bought Chamossaire, the other LNER apple green A2/3 from Hattons at the reduced price. With my example the running plate is flat but the left smoke deflector is slightly wonky. Overall it's been a great performer on my layout and for the performance at slower speeds is incredible. The original price is completely ridiculous, Hornby definitely needs to improve quality to justify their prices. Also great review as always.

Thank you for going back to the A2 and reviewing the A2/3 version Sam. I was initially tempted a bit by the Hattons' last bargain price point on these having been put off by your comments on the earlier version. I went for an earler LNER black A3 in the end which has a metal running plate so hopefully no warping. A bit of a shame the execution on this model wasn't great as it's one of the few big pacifics that noone had modelled in 00.

Sam you don’t know how much I’ve been wanting you to do this Thompson Pacific. Ever watching Flying Scott’s videos on Thompson’s engines, I’ve come to accept, appreciate, and even like the A2/2-3. They were just wartime engines that had to be made because a lack of traction.

I saw 'Edward Thompson' many times as she used to work Peterborough-Kings Cross trains. I bought an A2/2 a few weeks ago and it seems much better than the sample you had.

Good overall review here Sam, luckily a my a2/2 has been a really good model since I bought it nearly last year, I will admit the green isn’t that good but it doesn’t really bother me, I’m definitely going to be looking for the A2/3 at some point, I think the one I’m looking for is called Sun Castle because that is in the BR green with the late crest but I would definitely be up for looking at getting one in the LNER green, I really like Thompson pacific locomotives they have some real character and knowing the actual history on them is fantastic.

I have Chamossaire in LNER apple green and Sun Castle in BR green. I agree the livery on both is washed out which is the biggest issue for me personally and the quality contol on these models is a bit hit and miss and I've heard of others having issues. However both of my models are excellent runners, the running gear is very impressive and overall I'm happy with them at the price I paid, £117 & 118 inc P&P NEW. I certainly wouldn't recommend them at the RRP, but if you can pick them up for £120 or less then I'd say they're not bad.

It’s an interesting and satisfying turn of events that they’re reportedly losing millions in revenue and have a warehouse full of stock they cannot shift. This should be a lesson to them that they’re charging much more than their customer base can afford/want to pay. I doubt it will be a lesson learned.

Nice video Sam very good camera work as usual as well keep it up bye for now Philip

Thanks for your review. Was on my wish list for my collection, but now deleted.

Ive just rewatched this after my parents got me this exact loco for Christmas

I bought one at the reduced price. Its a great runner, pulls a decent load and looks great on a rake of Gresley coaches. Happy with the purchase

Very interesting video Sam, I find the overall view of the loco so wonderful, it stirs my emotions as I feel the real thing pounding along the east coast main to Edinburgh, and that is speaking as an LMS man which is what I am! Re the poor sales of them, the true LNER man hates Thompson with a passion, for rebuilding the wonderful 2-8-2 locos built for Aberdeen runs into pacifics and they never forgave him, thanks for the entertainment, very enjoyable, best wishes, Pete

Marvellous! ❤ Now I’ve got Two of them his; #1. BR Brunswick Green, No.60523 ‘Sun Castle’. #2. LNER Apple Green, No.500 ‘Edward Thompson’.

Saw this in Oz 4 hours after you were supposed to have posted it and all of the Hatton's reduced price A2/3 locos are gone. Surprise, surprise the preorder stock is at the full price.

When it comes to the rear wheels Sam, its worth mentioning that it's actually closer to the original locomotives if it doesn't move- the full size engines used Cartazzi axleboxes and thus the rear wheelset doesn't pivot at all (technically meaning its not a pony truck), with the axle moving inside the axlebox instead! Its difficult to replicate in small scales hence the use of blind wheels

Hi Sam, I don't think there was a out one out, but I did spot the A4, A3, A2 and 2 A1, (see what I did there) and one of them was tornado. Hopefully I got them all :) Cheers Jasper & Willow

I bought this model at the 'reduced' price from Hattons, I had a problem with my original model after running in it just stopped working completely I returned it to Hattons who replaced my model, while I do accept all your criticism especially the shade of the green, as a new comer to the hobby this is a really good runner, it will pull a good rake of both carriages at express speeds, which my grandson loves, but also a mixed rake of wagons at a more reasonable speed very smoothly with very few derailing problems, to have a large powerful loco like this at the price Hattons charged is really good for a beginner to the hobby but I can understand why an established model collector would be disappointed, both my grandson and I love your videos and they have been a great help to us getting up and running in the hobby thank you Sam

The rear truck on the Marklin Flying Scotsman in HO manages to have a well finessed scale look and still function, so that now Hornby aspires to Marklin pricing they need to aspire to Marklin standards of engineering.

So amazing review

I've been meaning to get one of these for a while, but was put off by your a2/2 review (plus I have a kitbuilt a2/2 so am not getting a hornby one). But now its severely reduced, I'll be considering one more.

Great review again Sam. Having seen H's latest annual report, it is more than crystal clear that they are stuck with piles of unsold stock... We can see items returned en masse constantly due to ongoing unforgivable and infuriating issues due to lack of any trivial quality manufacturing principles, which should be in place for prices they are asking, and we can see piles of non moving stock caused by pricing not matching for what H items actually are (mediocre at best). The sheen would be fine for us though. Steamers weren't even near glossy, as they looked industrious and since paints back then simply looked more faded. We are at a bit of a loss why train modellers would like glossy models as they look like toy grade anyway; just doesn't work. Subject to personal preference of course. Anyway, this would have been an immediate return we guessed (warping, finger print marks, glue marks, wonky parts) and great that you continue exposing H. Cheerio.

Hi Sam, thanks for a great review! My local model shop currently has eight of these models at a heavily discounted price for factory defects and faults despite being completely brand new, so you're absolutely right that these models have very shoddy build quality to say the least. Plus, the paint flecks and glue marks (particularly the horrible one on the cab hand rail at 11:40) were giving me a real eye twitch, so definitely going to give this one a pass! Such a shame Hornby are clearly prioritising the interests of their shareholders over the ones of their customers!

Hello Sam - fingers crossed for this one 😎

Interesting to see this review just after Jenny Kirk’s review of the outstanding Hornby A1 which was actually £20 cheaper than this one from TMC… Strange that the quality of Hornby varies so much from one model to another

I purchased a Chamossaire from Hattons a few weeks ago for £114 including P/P. The quality control was good & the performance was fine. It crawls well and copes with the radius 1 & 2 curves on my second hand track . If you are lucky with the quality control & can get one for this sort of price it is good value considering Hornby want £49.99 for a RailRoad 0-4-0

Despite the model’s quality or the faults, do you ever get that exited feeling whenever you open up a new model and see it run?

I like a mat finish over a satin finish, providing it still looks metallic and not plastic. Wonder if most modellers prefer satin? I wouldn't get this model though, due to the warped running plate.

love the look of this

The way they have the coupling missing in the front of the locomotive reminds me of the Mantua Tyco locomotives that they built from the 1960s straight-through 1980s. they did not have couplers on the front pilot for the Pacific and mikados.. even the draw bar is similar to this one ,screws on both ends. It looks like a nice model but I do agree with quality issues can't be giving it a good score

Honestly the last hornby train I bought was the 08 Phantom, I mostly get rolling stock from them now

I had the Evening Star, bought 73..last BR build...ran very well..more so when Peco arrived..

Another interesting review! Yes, it looks like a rather over-priced model at the RRP. I wonder if that flat plasticky look could be given some lustre by spraying the body with satin sealer??

I have a real emotional regard for all the British steam being painted that lovely green, but this colour looks much the same as apple green. I think the standard loco colour is called Brunswick Green. Maroon coaches too remind me of childhood. Quite a dignified colour scheme.

Give 'em heaps mukka. A complete farce of a model. The gouging mongrels at Hornby deserve every adverse comment. I have a feeling the crappy paint and quality issues could be because they have found even a cheaper builder than their regular one. It’s bad enough it is built in China in the first place but this is a real embarrassment. All in all, it seems to be an accurate depiction of a Thompson loco! 😂 Cheers from Oz Gaz

Awesome video Sam's trains

Overall, because I'm not that picky of a collecter. If I saw this at a low price, I might buy it because it seems like an OK model for my layout

The green looks more like a shade of BR Apple Green rather than a proper LNER Doncaster green. I will say though, this model looks significantly nicer than the A2/2, though that's probably more due to the designs of the locomotives.

I've noticed Sam that the second version of a model is sometime a little bit better that the original, take for instance the hornby clan class and rebuild patriot. Cheers Jasper & Willow

Hi Sam, I don't recall you ever telling us the gradient of the "Gordon Hill" as a reference 1%, 2%, 3% if you could, can you refresh that to us when mentioning the name of the hill. All though it would be an even better Idea if you could have all three Hill grades. The lowest 1% to the inside loop and 3% maximum to the outside loop. I don't know if a mainline gradient in real-life one to one scale would be any steeper than a 3% ascent. the steepest I've seen was a 2.5%. Thank you Sam for all you do in these videos.

Is it a pony truck or Cartazzi axle on the prototype? A Cartazzi axle doesn't pivot - it only allows pure sideways movement

Hi sam I hope you are well Am early I know sorry For me this a2/3 is better than a2/2 Just need a2/1 For me 500 Edward Thompson is fantastic model runs well. Am not sure if apple green or Doncaster green the livery They slight difference Thank you for your opinion on the model Thank you for sharing your models with us Keep safe ARP

Ouch! a grade E. I understand your point in your evaluation. For the money you should expect almost perfection. Same problem with American manufacturers. I like Athern Genesis series with Soundtraxx decoder from the get go which have excellent details. Just got my first steam loco a UP 844 - Alco FEF-3 (four-eight-four), a real beauty. I model based on the Los Angeles area (not prototypical.) with mostly UP and BNSF, with Amtrak, California trains, and local regional Metrolink. I always like the British trains even that I still can't figure out your locomotive class system. I know that the class C66 is an EMD build for some private railroads.

Not going to lie, I was really thinking of picking up an H. loco recently, I think I'll just get something else from Bachmann instead. At least with heavy weathering the dodgy paint wouldn't be too noticeable.

I do like the looks of cylinders behind the front bogie, it’s just very unusual

My favorite LNER loco! (A2/3 500 ‘Edward Thompson’)

Have you ever thought of 3D printing rolling stock with American style knuckle couplers? You should do that for a 3D printing video

Hi Sam. How are you doing today? Nice hair cut by the way. I fractured my ankle the other day, so I cannot go out and film any trains for while.

Another extremely enlightening review as ever, thank you. As I was brought up on the Western Region I’m not familiar with all the LNER loco variants. So, on checking this loco out in the Hornby 2023 catalogue I am somewhat dumbfounded to find there are 5 different A2/3 versions listed which equates to the entirety of Hornby’s offering of GWR locos: 2 x Large Prairie, both in BR liveries; 2 x Castle Class, both listed for release in Q2; 1 x Star Class. The Star and one of the Castles are produced in association with the NRM. The other Castle is a limited production run of 500. There are two tank engines in the Railroad range, both in GWR livery only, but this compares with 9 different versions of ‘Flying Scotsman’. Whatever happened to the 1960s era of the ubiquitous GWR branch line model railway?

Hey Sam, I have been wanting to get into the hobby and love all the British locos. Only problem is, I'm over here in America. Do you have any good tips for what I should do?

Hi Sam. When she was running, I only counted 7 coaches and not 8. But that's me being pedantic so maybe I need to get a life. 😂 Paul. 👍❤

Hi Sam , I really like and look forward to your reviews/videos but I do find the track on the floor rather funny …………….. it reminds me of my childhood (I’m most certainly not criticising), keep up the good work!

I paid 95 for mine and its an amazing runner

Hornby’s Gresley A1’s are now £126 on TMC would you consider that a 5 star for value since you gave it 3 at RRP?

Awesome video today Sam beautiful locomotive such a shame about the quality

To be fair, the release is pre - better finish from Hornby. I think the new release in March will be a better sign of the paint finish

I feel like Hornsby did the Thompson Pacifics quite dirty as even thought they have a more modern tooling, in my opinion they will never be as fantastic compared to the old and new Hornby Gresley pacifics

Hi Sam, Nice review ,But it doesn't pull my string, All the best Brian 😃

I'm surprised that you also reviewing this hornby model of this locomotive.

Stil a nice model!

To think this costs the same as a Bachmann V2 at RRP...

A frustrating aspect to this and a trend I have seen in Hornby's QA of late is that where a viable alternative could come along (or already exists) they take their QA very seriously e.g. Lion / A3 / A4 etc. However, where it's unlikely that a competitor model will come to light as their is a niche market e.g. APT / A2's / W1 it is more likely to fall down. The painting on this and the clans that were released within a few months of each other, was really quite poor but the more recent releases suggest this was a blip. Nevertheless, it's gives me pause for thought at ordering a P2, where a Bachmann example would not.

I guess the £119 price is a lot better than £229 but given all the imperfections it has I would've thought a more realistic price would be well under £100.

Definitely a great model, i like hornby

Is it just me or is the front safety valve not fitted straight?

Sam - Hornby Locos have on the box a code -LOT - CHL -TEC - SK for example which I presume identify the factory responsible, SK probably being the much lamented Sanda Kan. The examples I have given are all good - but it would be interesting to know the codes on the A2/2, A2/3 and if you still have the boxes the duff B12/3s you got caught with. I have 3 early B12/3s, all with code LOT, the same as my J15s.All are good runners. It might help if prospective buyers were aware of possibly dodgy factories - of course Hornby should have weeded them out.

Hornby really have a cheek to ask the prices they do for certain models. Personally I would rather pay a bit more for Bachmann or a lot less for Accurascale. I haven't bought a new Hornby locomotive for over a year now. 😕

Ah darn. Well, I hope that sometime soon Hornby will upgrade their not so good locomotives and make them worth the high amounts of money they are. Good review Sam, hope to see you again on your next video or any of mine if you are interested. See you!

13:56 is it just me Sam, or does it look like there is a little bit of paint missing from there? Cheers Jasper & Willow

would the real thing have flat or gloss paint?

Love a good roast, pass the gravy!

Fax

If it runs ok, then looks for me is 2nd place....Bachmann seem to look far better but lack the performance is my overall impression?

Grumbles 8p7f doesn't mean its mixed traffic ... all br locos were given both p and f ratings, however it wasn't always consistent if the f or p rating was highlighted... the liner A4s were known as 8Ps but were 8P6Fs, ... true mixed traffic locos were prefixed under BR as MT ..such as the 5MT

If hornby does make the A2/1 and A1/1 hopefully they actually make them good if they ever make them

When you can get the A1 Doncaster from TMC with diecast running board, much better finish, nice cab detail, much better quality for £126, at time of writing...why would you buy this monster..?. Just out of interest @samstrains how does the finish compare to the Hornby P2 railroad version, as this is quite plasticy...?

I bought one of these just over a year ago and it is very good, DCC V5 Loksound bought for it at the same time. It runs very well. My boiler is better than yours. My running plate isn't warped. When I'm running in I do it 15 minutes forward in each direction the 15 mins backward in both directions. Don't be so critical, a loco in real life would slow down going up an incline.

Don't know about you, but I would have accepted the drawbacks in the finish if the model was sold for GBP130. For GBP 100 more, it's an absolute no-go for me : you have Railroad models far better than this one on finish; And I don't speak about what you can get for GBP 170 from Accurascale... The mechanism is acceptable, if you don't mind the outdated features (8 pin decoder socket...) and the lack of flywheel. The performances are correct, albeit overspeeding for my taste. At least, you can run this engine... Overall, too much issues for too much money, a no-go for me. If I'm ready to pay a German price, I'll buy a German engine. Not an Hornby one with an Ali Express quality. About slashed prices, you have the SECR C class in SR black at TMC, sold for GBP 103 from an original retailer's price of GBP 205, if you're interested for a review, if not already done (can't remember)...

Wow, that score is lower than the a2/2, but I guess the price change was bound to do that

I was considering one of these simply because they are odd and a bit different looking but to me it looks like theyve stuck a railroad body on a railways chasis. The livery is pretty naff and a noticeable seam on the boiler is a big no these days. Its like that'll do when they clearly know how to do it right. You can't tell me it costs that much more to produce !!

I think the question isn't so much whether the "fixed truck/dummy wheels" solution is more accurate than the old "pivoting pony truck" solution Hornby used to do- because of course it's more accurate- but whether it's *desirable*. There's a tendency among some to be snobbish about "tight radius curves" and a stance of "Well, you should be running industrial 0-4-0s, if you're running *that* sort of 'train set' layout". I can understand the perspective of modellers who don't want to see accuracy compromised- but, at the same time, the 'floating dummy wheels' look rather silly anyway- probably not much sillier than the 'pony truck and rear frames swing out from under the cab' look of the old style models, and also, most model railways do start with a train set. If the push for accuracy means that children starting out in the hobby find they can't run a "Flying Scotsman" or similar, in 00 scale, then I suspect we all end up suffering- and indeed, *have* ended up suffering, as Hornby and other manufacturers tailor their larger models specifically for the high-end advanced hobbyists only, and get away with charging higher end prices. Of course, "railroad" is in theory supposed to be the answer to that- but as far as I'm aware the current Railroad Pacifics have the same problem.

OMG that seam line is horrific 😱😱😱😱, had potential but shot themselves in the foot good job you waited for price to fall.

So, this is probably going to earn me some funny looks, but since we're talking about the A2/3, I have to say it. Maybe if you had reviewed this model soon after the A2/2 review, I might've thought twice about getting one shipped over to me. I probably still would have gotten it though, because I have a real soft spot for the A2/3 -- warts and all. Yeah, it would be one thing if I were just charmed by their businesslike appearance and what I find to be an imposing, striking cylinder arrangement (and how the real A2/3s wore BR Green especially well, from what colorized pictures show), but doing serious research on them, scouring through books dedicated to impartially reassessing Thompson's locomotives (ie; Peter Grafton's "Edward Thompson of the LNER" or Tim Hillier-Graves' "Thompson: His Life and Locomotives") definitely changes the way one thinks about them from a performance point of view. Two points that stand out being that all of Thompson's pacifics, while criticized for wheelslip, had better rates of adhesion than any of the Bulleid pacifics; and that comparing the A2 series to Gresley's pacifics is fundamentally unfair because the A2s were, first and foremost, war engines. Simon A.C. Martin pointed out in a Railway Mania podcast episode that his research for his own book reassessing Thompson's engines, revealed that while the A2 engines were in the works more often, they were actually more consistently available for traffic, both during and in the years following the war. And this is to say nothing of how thoroughly historical research will obfuscate the argument that Thompson personally held something against Gresley or his engineering; the amount of evidence for that is remarkably scant and flimsy. And we can crack jokes about how some people might not mourn the fact that not a single Thompson A2 was preserved, but the other fact is that they're a big missing link; all of Thompson's pacific designs are, however people feel about them. There is a part of me that wonders, if an A2/3 had survived, since it is commonly thought of as the best performing of the Thompson pacific designs, would its presence have us reconsidering the merits of its design? I don't know; maybe we'd all continue harping on it because that's what I think we're all trained to do at the mention of Thompson's name outside the context of the B1. And the fact that Hornby's models of these engines obviously could've been much better than they turned out, just makes the whole thing that much sadder to me. Even in model form, these engines are just going to earn gawks, eye rolls and tenth-hand insults about a relationship with historically dubious grounds. Anyways, all that out of the way; nice review, as always. It did sting a little to see in in the bottom five with the year halfway over, especially with how much I've personally enjoyed mine. But yeah, that closing remark about how behind the times the model is for a model as recent as it is does ring true. I did pay full price for mine (unfortunately), that money didn't go towards padding Hornby's pockets; I got mine from a sale where the proceeds went towards the restoration of a shunter. Catch you with the next review!

A boiler seam is a dealbreaker for me, seconded by facsimile pony trucks

Maybe this should be a railroad locomotive

I like the green on this loco looks really nice👍😊🤩

A nice enough prototype, just a shame that it is suffering from the Hornby effect!

5.81 seems a bit harsh to me but it is your review and I presume this is based on the RRP as opposed to the reduced price. Keep up the good work.

Bachmann China have just released their updated ND5 diesel locos, quite an interesting prototype in real life, these were built by GE in America and shipped to China.

Wow, how weird! The very day I recieve this very loco in the post Sam does a review! I got mine at a very good price so i went for it.

I would love this locomotive for the mechanism but I would not pay that ridiculous msrp for the what looks more like a railroad line loco.

11:46: They even messed up the builder's plate, as there's a chunk missing from it, almost as if something took a bite out of it before it was "installed" (painted) onto the side of the cab! 11:50: The red lining on the left side of the trailing truck looks a bit wonky, and doesn't quite match the curve at the bottom of the truck. 17:29: The gauges in the cab are actually painted WAY off-center, making them look more like reverse-colored egg yolks than actual gauges. And you've already mentioned the horrible finish to this borderline plastic-tat of a locomotive. Who painted this model, and, more importantly, WHO APPROVED IT?!

If I remember these locos were the ones where Hornby changed Chinese manufacturers so tons of quality issues. Added to that this was the time they bought in the tier system and put Hattons on the bottom of it, as they cancelled my orders of this loco. To think I was worried I wouldn't get one, how wrong was I. I have just picked up two A1s in TMCs sale for half price, so yes Hornby seem to be having issues selling their models. Compared to other manufacturers I think Hornby are 10% overpriced assuming decent quality control which they obviously don't have. Good review though, thanks. I am beginning to understand why the disciples on the Hornby website dislike your reviews, that don't seem to be able to see reality.

👍👌

The model

Hopefully with a new person at the helm it will usher in improved quality control instead of the 'get them out on the shelves' mentality which was the root of Mazak Rot. No more warped plastic running boards. Improved after sales Customer Service. In short a vast improvement on who has shortly departed that role.