Intelligent Octopus Flux (Even Better than Octopus Flux?)
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Күн бұрынThis video provides a detailed comparison of Intelligent Octopus Flux against Octopus Flux.
Octopus Flux - The future of smart tariffs?:
• Octopus Flux - the Fut...
Effective Smart Tariff Strategies (Part 2: Template Tariffs):
• Effective Smart Tariff...
Who’s in Control of your Solar and Battery Setup?:
• Who’s in Control of yo...
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How much power can your home generate?:
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Tim & Kat’s Green Walk video:
• Best Octopus tariff fo...
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:18 Recap on Octopus Flux
2:27 Intelligent Octopus Flux
4:42 Comparing the two tariffs
5:19 An Infinitely-sized Grid Battery
7:34 Calculating your solar generation
8:20 Octopus control of your battery
11:02 Summary
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DISCLAIMER
Whilst every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of the content in this video, no warranty for that content is provided, nor should it be implied. Viewers acting on the content, do so at their own risk.
#intelligent #octopus #flux
@anthonyhill6943 Ай бұрын
Thank you, Gary, what a great video. Very informative and professionally made. Also, your delivery style is excellent.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks Anthony - that's really great feedback to receive! :-)
@garyrooksby Ай бұрын
I loved that double-take moment, Gary!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thank you! It was a bit cringy but thought I’d keep it in, just in case it made people laugh 😆
@grantmidd Ай бұрын
Finally the first uk solar channel to talk about this amazing tariff!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks - I'm not sure I'm the first to cover the tariff, but hopefully the first to look into in such detail :-)
@grantmidd Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar I was one of the first to get it end of summer last year and still haven't seen any decent coverage of it. I hope to see any real life cover of people with the tariff, But I have saved so much money.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@grantmidd Yeah, I guess that the tariff is not easy to comprehend when people first come across it - and of course, that might make people shy away from it. Hopefully my video will shine a little light on what I think is an innovative new approach.
@grantmidd Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar Indeed you did.
@PitBull78q Ай бұрын
Super content as always about solar, battery or tariffs. Thank you 😊😊😊
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks 😀🙏
@keswickcowboy Ай бұрын
Gary, these 2 tarrifs have been on my mind for a while so thank you for your informative content. As an installer I can see my customers energy usage and your content helps me to guide them through the mine field of tarrifs, when to charge and discharge, saving sessions etc... one things for sure there's not a one size fits all scenario for my customers so thank you for your valuable contribution to the eco warriors.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks for your very kind words - I'm so happy my videos are helping you help your customers :-)
@sweetvuvuzela4634 Ай бұрын
Thanks Gary for your explanation.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
You're most welcome! Glad it was helpful :-)
@DerekHasted Ай бұрын
Really clear and a really interesting watch!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Cheers Derek - this is great feedback to receive - thank you! :-)
@DarkS1m Ай бұрын
Perfect timing for this video, Gary! I'm having a GivEnergy 9.5kWh battery and 5kW inverter installed in 2 weeks and was undecided on which tariff to start on. I'm still not sure, but much better informed now! That off-peak export rate is very tempting as my array should produce about 30-40% more than my annual usage. Plus, I think the idea of a VPP is very cool...
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Excellent stuff! I think we're spoiled for choice with all the tariffs being offered by Octopus Energy, and although I was skeptical of IOF to begin with, I'm really liking what it's trying to achieve!
@DarkS1m Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar another point that is brilliant about the parity in import/export rates, which you briefly touch on at 6:07 in the video, is that you don't have to worry about spreading out your off-peak usage throughout the day. I don't have to nag my family about having the kettle on at the same time as the oven, or the washing machine and the dryer at the same time - it's already been covered by the export. So not only do you flatten the annual curve, but you flatten the daily one as well. Practically this means a lot less micromanagement in the home, which is fantastic. Even if you are micromanaging, the lag time of the home battery is also negated with IOF, so something like an induction hob going on and off will draw a lot of power from the grid until the battery catches up. This only adds up to a few pence a day, but still would be saved for the perfectionists.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@DarkS1m Great points! 😃
@user-kz6tv2hs8j Ай бұрын
Well done, Gary, for an excellent series of videos - thank you. I was wondering if you might like to do something on automating the Agile tariff, perhaps looking at My Energy Optimiser, Wonder Watt, GivEnergy's Smart Tariff automation etc.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
You're most welcome! Now, I've still to complete part 4 of my smart tariff strategies series - and this last part is on tracker tariffs. I'll certainly be covering the items you propose... :-)
@MatWoolf Ай бұрын
Hi Gary thanks for your informative videos I will be changing to octopus I have used your referral code thanks Martin
@DerekHasted Ай бұрын
If your Octopus experience is as good as mine, you’ll be very happy to have moved over…
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi Martin, you're most welcome - I'm very happy to hear that they're useful to you. And that was very kind of you to think of me with the referral code - thank you! :-)
@stevegame3000 Ай бұрын
Very interesting video and something else to consider ahead of my solar/battery installation in a couple of weeks (with a Givenergy battery).
@AdrianMcDaid Ай бұрын
What size of battery are you getting? Bigger is always better 😊 Upgraded my own battery last week to 15.5kwh for £2500 great price for the capacity
@stevegame3000 Ай бұрын
13.5kW 😊
@AdrianMcDaid Ай бұрын
@@stevegame3000 good size. The usable 5kwh had previously was too small.
@stevegame3000 Ай бұрын
@@AdrianMcDaid yes you’ve got great storage capacity now. Nice one
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks, and great to hear, Steve! Hope the installation goes well :-)
@iansinclair7581 Ай бұрын
I went over to Intelligent Octopus Flux back in November. It certainly takes a bit of trust to give over total control to Octopus. The battery is charged to about 50-55% over night during winter. The rest is from the sun or off peak till 1600hrs when it will discharge to home and grid till 1900hrs. So you will always consume but gain during peak periods. Now that the equinox has past the night time charging has stopped and the battery is charged from the sun or grid as stated above. However what is noticeable is that even now in mid March the generation is beginning to overhaul the consumption, so I’m making some money. Roll on summer.😊
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Great to hear, Ian. And yes, let's have more sun! :-)
@edwardwilcox8982 Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar Now, what about a wind turbine? Incidentally, if you have solar, any wind turbine could be turned "off", doubling their life span. (Also during daylight in the nesting season?!). Average wind speed here, M4 corridor, is a paltry 4.5m/s, but the average winter months are 6m/s, which is useful. There plenty of 100watt @ 6m/s turbines (2.4Kwh/day) for around £500 just needs the law changed to allow 6 of them on the roof. Fat chance. £3000 for 13.5kWh/day. Intelligent Octopus Flux would fix wind turbine intermittency, by being, as you say, a gigantic battery.
@ClemensMunter-ps1gi 19 күн бұрын
Great video, very insightful! Over how many years does Octopus guarantee fixed import / export rates?
@GaryDoesSolar 17 күн бұрын
Cheers Clemens - now, Octopus tends to adjust their rates every year.
@bearders22 Ай бұрын
Thanks for your video, it convinced me to change although I wasn't impressed with the time it took for Octopus to action things even though I'd been on Flux already. I live in Suffolk and unlike many other counties we benefit from "Power Ups". I am presuming that Octopus blend this in to their automations. It's day 1 and we have free electricity from 11am-2pm today - WHOOP!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Wow - I hope we can get power ups in Oxfordshire, where I live! That said, I'm on Agile at the moment it's free much free electricity all day tomorrow :-)
@johncarroll2638 Ай бұрын
Thanks Gary having watched most of your videos and as an Octopus coustomer I switched to Octopus Flux last year following your advise. I am know looking at Flexible Octopus Flux but I am not sure if I can do that with my system at this time my system has a Lux inverter and 3 Pylonteck batteries 1 US5000 & 2 US2000, what are your thoughts and is it possible to do so.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thank you very much for the super thanks, John - very much appreciated. Now, if you're looking at Intelligent Octopus Flux, yeah - it's restricted to only GivEnergy batteries at the moment. But the non-intelligent version of Octopus Flux is also a very good tariff, and you might find if/when you're on it, you'll want to buy more of those Pylontechs! :-)
@TonyHuggins-bt3of Ай бұрын
I had eco 7 through the winter as this gave a wider window of cheaper electric, I have one storage heater and an I boost, but timer use to heat water during winter time, this worked well but last month I moved to Flux but this ended up dearer in KW cost etc, I am now on agile and flux exsport, this is working well and at the time iof this I have have 4 hrs of zero cost and the exsport between 1600-1900 29p a KW, i love plunge prices, this week I have had two days of being paid back, not withdth standing the dreaded standing charge daily included in this.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi Tony, thanks for sharing your experiences with these tariffs. I'm on Agile myself at the moment as well, and I have to say - it's pretty good! :-)
@cornishgiant1979 Ай бұрын
The conundrum that I am trying to work though is whether to stay on Agile and manually manage it myself or hand over control to this - I am keeping my average p/kWh
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
I feel the same...!
@RobAldred Ай бұрын
Nice video as always, very clearly explained. Personally I prefer to be in control of my system and use Home Assistant to do basically what they're doing IMO more optimised to my own requirements not what octopus thinks is the best. Intelligent would seem to have the limitation of only making electricity "free" However with regular flux it feels like you it's easier to generate a profit by utilising the offer-peak import and peak-export. Did you switch to Agile in the end Gary?
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi Rob, thanks for the great feedback! :-) Yeah, giving up control is not for everyone... I certainly know I made a LOT of profit last summer on Flux, but I'm going to be doing some in-depth modelling soon, to see what's best for me. I did switch to Agile after Flux (around November I think) and it's been very. very good! I use MyEnergyOptimiser to control my battery - to automatically select the cheapest slots to charge my battery to 100% overnight regardless of the weather. I can't fault the tariff at all.
@user-uu5sy9vy8o Ай бұрын
Enjoyed your video Gary, very timely as my considering switching from Go / export lite to IOF or Flux. To avoid clipping I set my battery to only charge at a rate of approx 25% max charge to use the solar over a longer period to charge the battery , do you know of IOF charges the battery at max or a reduced rate ? Have you considered how IOF compares with the company you recently reviewed who mange your import / export for you for a monthly subscription ?
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks for you're very kind words :-) So, on IOF, when your battery is charged by Octopus you pay the import rate at the time, but Octopus may benefit from a cheaper wholesale rate at the time - I believe Octopus tries always to charge during the greenest (i.e. cheapest) slots. Regarding your question, I've still to do the modelling, but my gut feel is that Agile is better for me than IOF as the average Agile rate is 10-15p.
@user-uu5sy9vy8o Ай бұрын
Thanks for your reply Gary, I may not have explained things very well . Now that we are getting more sunny days to avoid clipping I set my battery to charge from the solar array at between 0.75 kW & 1 kW which allows export throughout & prevents clipping whilst the battery is charging over an extended period. Does IOF do similar or does it charge at maximum , in my case 2.6 kW? You recently reviewed “My Energy Optimiser “ with Richard Pearce , the second part of my original question referred to how this compares with IOF and should I consider it as an alternative ? Thanks Alan Skinns
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@user-uu5sy9vy8o Ah ok - on IOF, Octopus has full control over when and at what rate your battery charges. With MyEO, you determine what you want to happen (the charging rules) then MyEO executes that for you on a day to day basis. Hope this helps...
@ryanmason491 Ай бұрын
Hi Gary great vid! Do you know if I have a 3.6kw inverter that I over size to say the 150% they allow would I still need a G99 application or would I be allowed to install without the grid authority/G99. Many thanks!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Based on the information you have given me, it looks like a G98 application, which is automatic. Your installer will be able to manage all this for you :-)
@PeterGagen Ай бұрын
Thank you very well explained. You make a good sales case for the tariff. I am now going away to think about what I should do. I think my small 5.2 Kwh battery is too small and Octopus want £ 1800.00 to add another one which might not work for me. Time to get my calculator out I think.
@EngineerLewis Ай бұрын
I am in the same position @PeterGagen so if you come to any conclusion, I would be keen to know! Thanks 😁
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
You're very welcome, Peter - hope the numbers stack up!
@antrog1895 Ай бұрын
My supplier wanted £2k +VAT when I enquired about another battery earlier this year
@MrSensible2 Ай бұрын
I've been on Flux since mid 2022 & looking forwards, I can't say I'm best pleased with Octopus. My west facing array produces roughly 2500 kWh/year with 80% of this output in the 2nd & 3rd quarters of the year. My domestic demand is typically 2150 kWh/year, so like in your example, I'm a net exporter to the grid. Although the actual calculation is complex, my annual bill is the (negative) credit I get from my summer exports plus my standing charge. So from April 1st, Octopus have DECREASED my solar export price by 15% & INCREASED my standing charge by an eye watering 28%! I'm actually worse off. Thanks a bloody million Octopus!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Did you mean mid-2023 as both Octopus Flux tariffs were launched only last year? And were/are you on Octopus Flux or Intelligent Octopus Flux? If the former, it's really only a summer tariff, so most people switch to something else (for example, I went over to Agile) over the winter. If you stayed on Octopus Flux throughout the winter, overall you'll likely have lost all the financial gain you achieved over the summer. If you don't fancy switching tariffs twice a year (and I could completely get that) then Intelligent Octopus Flux could work out best for you, for all the reasons I stated in my video. I agree with you about the standing charge increases - it's borderline criminal in my view as it penalises low energy users, including the elderly and vulnerable.
@MrSensible2 Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolarSorry. Yes, it was mid-2023, not 2022 & it's standard Flux, not Intelligent Flux, as the newer tariff doesn't work with Growatt batteries yet. I did glean some benefit over the winter with Flux. I filled up my admittedly small 3.3 kWh battery between 2am & 5am & I reckon this saved me about 45 quid per winter. Sadly this saving is way too small to justify splashing out £1,500 on a second battery.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@MrSensible2 Something you might want to try this year is staying with Octopus Flux until about mid October, then switch to Agile until end March 2025. It worked for me, certainly. And to get the best from Octopus Flux, you could set your battery to force-charge to 100% during the off-peak period (or at least as much as charge as 3 hours will give) then force-discharge during the peak period, leaving enough energy in the battery to get you through to the off-peak period the next day. See this video here that explains this in detail: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mq2gprFpkpeqqGg.html
@DerekHasted Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar One of the hardest equations to solve is based on what you've said here - do you cram your battery full and then force-discharge it, or do you give your battery some limits and hope it lasts longer... It's very hard to be at the start of a technology (eg LifePO4) or a tariff (eg Octopus Intelligent Flux) and know whether you've optimised "this year's profits" against "needing replacements in 10 years time". My own strategy is that I live where there are power cuts - maybe 12 a year - because our village, although having underground electricity, is fed by overhead cables from the nearest town. So I need to keep enough in the battery that my work commitments (involving video lessons) are never compromised. All in all, it's clearly not a one-size-fits-all problem/solution. Nonetheless, I'm happy with Flux, and happy with your very clear explanation about Intelligent Flux and the world's biggest battery...
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@DerekHasted Thanks Derek, for your kind words. Yeah, it's not easy for anyone to determine which tariff(s) will be best for them, and how to get the best from their solar and battery installation. For me, it all comes down to have good data modelling, and that's why I'm spending a lot of time developing utilities on my Patreon 👍
@azlansharom7011 Ай бұрын
For NEM in Malaysia our energy company charges users ‘total imported energy + service tax (8%) + some other fees’, BEFORE refunding exported energy at a 1:1 tariff rate. Meaning even if you export the amount you import, you’d still be paying 8% ++. So, it’s still beneficial to consume as much of your own energy during the day. Granted, for most it’s not huge amounts, but it is noteworthy.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
I didn't know that about the Malaysian market - thanks for sharing.
@mauriceatkinson9520 Ай бұрын
great video. I am on Octopus Flux and have requested to go onto Intelligent Octopus Flux as I have the GivEnergy AllinOne battery. I have been waiting for weeks to move tariff so either they are inundated with people moving or something must be up.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks :-) Yeah, not sure why there's a delay. I'd suggest to email them and ask what the hold up is...
@mauriceatkinson9520 14 күн бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar has anyone being able to move to this tariff? I have been in conversation with octopus for ages but the process of joining fails for me. I have all the updated apps, correct battery but still it doesn't move me to the new tariff
@michaelblackmore883 Ай бұрын
Hi Gary Very Interesting. It looks as if this might favour limiting the size of the battery to enough to cover the peak rate only and using the 'grid battery' for any other surplus. In my spreadsheet sheet the ROI reduced progressively as the battery size increased. Has the much vaunted price drop in solar panels because of the huge Chinese surplus come through to retail sales yet? Mike
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks for your insight here, Michael. I agree, and this means that those with smaller batteries can expect to get a LOT of value from a tariff like this. Who'd have thought??? :-)
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, solar panel prices have dropped quite a lot last few months (great!) - I'm planning to do a video on such...
@michaelblackmore883 Ай бұрын
Thanks Gary
@stefanhorn6780 Ай бұрын
great video, however for me i am sticking with agile for the moment, time will tell if its the right decision
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks, and yeah - I'm on Agile at the moment, and am deciding which tariff to do next. I'm not sure you can go wrong with Octopus tariffs in fact, whichever you choose :-)
@MrKlawUK Ай бұрын
this seems like Octopus’ TEP which required a powerwall, but for givenergy? Net metering is a good benefit but my only wrinkle is the control Octopus have. I assume they’d export in the peak period and avoid import, but there are no guarantees there. If on average they avoid import during peak and make sure there is battery charge for that period (ideally force discharge but not essential) then its a year long battery like you mention. I’m curious how it compares to something like Intelligent octopus and always charging to 100% and letting all solar export at a higher price. slowly building up credit to cover winter lower solar generation
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Good points! I'm planning to develop my utility so that can model over a whole year - quite a tall order, but should be achievable. The answers are coming...
@serraios1989 Ай бұрын
I have carried out multiple charge/discharge tests to calculate the efficiency of my 8.2kwh GivEnergy battery. Consistently the outcome is the same; at max (forced) charge/ discharge rate efficiency is under 70%. Improves slightly when charging/discharging at lower rates. At 21p import and 28p export, there is a net loss when the battery is forced to export.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
You're not the first person to quote 70% figures for GivEnergy in fact. As I have these batteries myself, I think I'm going to have to do a bit of digging...
@deejaysmi1469 Ай бұрын
Gary, am I right that I need a smart meter to take advantage of any of these tariffs?
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yes, that's the case.
@DB-pm2vy Ай бұрын
North Yorks decided batteries were too expensive so pulled them from their package to me. Not only that but then downsized the inverter so it couldn’t manage a battery pack so I can’t upgrade 😡 I have 15p. kw export rate. and my bank balance is my battery. I use summer income to pay for winter electricity. I’m further north now but it worked for me in S. Lincs. I’m wondering if any rates are better with someone without battery option ? Regards DB
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Sorry to hear that - I think a battery is mandatory for this tariff, unfortunately.
@neilmarshall2315 Ай бұрын
As I thought when Intelligent Flux was introduced. I think for solar and battery only, the best regime is Flux for the summer and Agile for the winter, with the spring change over coming very shortly.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, that certainly worked for me 👍🏻
@robertsprigge5535 Ай бұрын
I switched to Flux when I first heard about it. Then I tracked it comparing the the standard rate that non-Solar/battery users are on when, in November I decided it wasn't worth the bother. a couple of months ago I became aware that Agile was workable for me. I've just had the bill for the past month and discovered I've been paying an average of 12p per kW/h for import🙂 And no, we don't run white goods overnight. I stuck to the Fixed export rate of 15p. Your comment has just make me wonder if I should be considerering going back to Flux? Clearly I need to see the post-April 1st prices to make any sense of my options. Given how well Agile is working for me, I expect I'll stay. I observe that there's no mention of VAT which, of course is payable on Import but doesn't apply to export. Hence when Import & Export appear to have the same price they don't in reality.
@robertsprigge5535 Ай бұрын
My calculations now indicate that if I import at more than 11.25p kW/hr and export it later at 15p I'm losing money. This takes VAT and Import/Export loss (10%) into account. I'm using the Octopus Watch App to check for the best value import times, when convenient for me, in addition to those that already automated.
@davidgray2825 Ай бұрын
Hello Gary. Eight years ago I built a passive house. 400 sq/m with a heating requirement of 4 Kw when we have heating on. It is all electric . I just recently had 8Kw of solar panels installed and 2 x 9.5 Kw givenergy batteries installed. They have just been installed so I am trying to figure out the best tarriff. My main problem is the Givenergy 5 Kw inverter. That's the biggest single phase and it can only handle 3.6Kw in and 3.6kw out. I am currently on Octopus Cosy tarriff. off peak 04-00 to 07-00 and again 13-00 to 16-00. My daily enrergy use with no heating is about 20 to 24 Kw/hrs per day. If I charge to 60% overnight it leaves space for excess solar to charge. Then come 13-00 I can charge to 100% to last me right through to 04-00. I thought flux and intelligent flux sounded great but during off peak even with the heating off ( forgot- I have an air source heat pump) I could easily draw more that 3.6Kw which would mean drawing from the grid at peak time. On most houses with gas heating you are never going to have a problem but if you have heat pump thats a whole new picture. I don't want to export anything. I want to use everything solar and off peak. When we do have the heating on we use about 40Kw/Hrs a day. Our annual consumption is about 12000kw/hrs. It would be great to be able to use intelligent flux and My Energy Optimser and just forget about it, but I don't think I can.
@GaryDoesSolar 26 күн бұрын
That's quite a high consumption over the year for IOF to handle, I reckon (unless you have the ability to generation more than that?)
@johnbridger5629 Ай бұрын
I'm currently trying to change my export tariff with Octopus but you would not believe how hard their customer support are making it. And that is just one of the problems I am trying to sort out with them. I like the company but I'm rapidly loosing patience with their support staff.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Sorry to hear you're having issues with your account, John. If I ever have a problem, I usually communicate with Octopus via email (hello@octopus.energy) with a clear and concise explanation of the issue and my request, and they response well.
@rbee3936 Ай бұрын
I had s very similar problem with the amount I was allowed to export taking them many months with them getting it wrong. It cost me a lot of money last summer. As of today, 8 months later, they still haven't got a bill right, and I still can't just download a correct bill from the app or site. Hopeless. They overcharged me by thinking I was on standard octopus, yet I was on Octopus Flux at one point, and Octopus Go on another, despite the App telling me they knew I was on these tariffs... Almost criminal. If i get much more grief I'll have to report them...
@lharris828 Ай бұрын
Octopus admin is a disaster area.
@thomasjohnbirks132 Ай бұрын
Thanks for a good explanation. I have solar, battery and an EV and I think the EV drives me towards the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff. With Go, Octopus control my EV charging but not my battery.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
I tend to agree - IOG is a superb tariff if you have an EV and you're doing a lot of miles...
@hans.vbaalen Ай бұрын
Thanks
@hans.vbaalen Ай бұрын
Thanks for pointing me toward this tariff. Net metering on a big scale can't work, it pushes the network and storage costs to the people not being able to afford their own installations, this is the reason why it's rightly abandoned in the US and other places where it still exists. Great for the solar/battery owner if you can get it though!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@hans.vbaalen Thank you, Hans for the Super Thanks 😀👍🏻 and yeah, that’s what I’d been hearing about net metering tariffs too! Maybe this tariff will suffer the same fate if it gets too popular?
@jneale7715 Ай бұрын
It does sound good, but I don't know if the compensation is enough to account for someone else controlling the cycling of the battery, wearing down it's lifetime usage etc
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Batteries typically allow for 6,000+ cycles these days, so if cycled once a day (as would happen with this tariff) that's almost 20 years...
@smartmart1958 Ай бұрын
I'm on Octopus Agile, for most of the day the import rate is much lower than these rates. I fill the battery before 4pm if the solar is not enough. I'm not high mileage in my EV so only charge it when rates are very low or negative. Generally post between 50p and 60p per 100 miles. Still only March and the daily cost of electric is less than £2
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Sounds great! 👍🏻
@jnaur6849 Ай бұрын
Would love to see an Irish company try something like this! It is sorely needed.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Agreed - it would be good to see Octopus Energy operate there before long...
@grahamheath9957 Ай бұрын
I think there is one limitation with the intelligent tariff, which is that most inverters are G98 and so are export limited, so although you may have a large solar array, that only counts in your favour if you can export the full generation (less your home usage). If you are limited to 3.68kW export then I don’t think this tariff will work for you.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
That's a good point, Graham. I'll need to think about the impact of a smaller inverter... I'm planning to do some modelling shortly...
@grahamheath9957 Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar if it helps with your modelling, I have a hybrid inverter (LuxPower 3K6), with 7.7kw of slightly north east/south west facing and 5 Pylontech US2000C batteries set for 90% dod. So while the inverter is capable of 7kw peak solar generation, for that use case to be effective, you need to have batteries being charged and then the remainder can go to the house or export. I think that anyone with a hybrid inverter that allows a larger array size (good for winter generation) but is G.98 will not really benefit from intelligent flux. To be honest, when I got the solar in the first place, the installers didn’t even talk about G.98 vs G.99 or G.100, nor did they mention that a G.98 inverter has the consequence that your house load served from the inverter can only be 16A and I didn’t know any better otherwise I would have chosen a bigger inverter and a G.99 approval. The issue for me was that solar was new and although I have a degree in electrical engineering, there’s a lot of information to learn and although KZfaq channels such as yours are really helping to make the information more widely available, there was less available in 2021-2022. Let me know if you want any real generation data to compare your modelling with and I’m happy to share. At a high level last year was generation 6035 kWh, export to grid 1669kwh, consumption around 5556kwh (this figure will be a bit low due to some usage being on the non-grid side of the inverter (it has a UPS type capability that I use for boiler and wifi so they stay on in case of a power cut) and import from grid 2070kwh
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@grahamheath9957 This is great input - thanks Graham!
@anthonydyer3939 Ай бұрын
Sadly my battery doesn’t qualify yet, but if it did then I’d certainly be on Intelligent flux for the summer period. The way things are priced just now, Intelligent Go plus Outgoing Fixed offers only a marginally worse export price than Octopus flux (mine is fixed at 15p till October). I’m going to have to say, I’m sticking with Intelligent Go for the summer. The flexibility of being able to charge overnight cheap allowing multiple long distance drives on consecutive days is compelling. I don’t get that advantage with Flux. All that said, while Intelligent flux is best for the summer, it’s still best to jump onto Intelligent Go for the winter just now. I suspect Octopus might just tweak the terms to oblige a 12 month minimum commitment to avoid this kind of game being played.
@iansinclair7581 Ай бұрын
I would check the small print in the contract. I’m sure there was a clause which said if you come off the Intelligent Flux tariff you can’t rejoin it for 9 months.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, if I had an EV it'd be hard for me not to got for IOG, especially if I was clocking up a lot of miles...
@SteveLoughran Ай бұрын
I’m on IOG but finding EV charge scheduling of a BMW troublesome. Last week the car kicked off charging early (23:05 vs 23:25). I *think* it was still in the 7.5p slot, but there’s no obvious way to find out what my live charge rate is. I’m on the 40p/kWh FIT for a 2KW solar panel -not quite enough to charge the car, but if I went to a rate like tracker the lower daytime rate would mean I could charge the car with AC current throttled back and maybe actually go off grid for charging,
@coniow Ай бұрын
I can tell you that the methodology behind the Intelligent Flux comes from the old Tesla Tariff, as I was on it for over a year. Charge to 100% overnight, dump at 5k into the grid at 16:00 on the dot. The first few weeks of that, after years of trying to avoid using mains at all was VERY disconcerting. The difference is that the Tesla Tariff was fixed rate all day (11p per kWh), and export was around a penny more than import to allow for the cycle loss of the battery. . Would I change from the Flux Tariff I am on at present? Probably not. I really never got used to having no control over MY battery, as it became THEIR battery. I could pull a charge every morning at off peak, and dump at 16:00hrs every day now, and make money from it, but I prefer to NOT use mains AT ALL if possible, but I am still happy to dump 30 to 40% into the mains at Peak, (if the following day will be bright enough to re-charge the battery on solar.) I make enough from that. I think being able to tell folks that for 8 months of the year I use no mains power at all, and that over the year I get more from the sun than I use, (including charging the car), so essentially free power for the year, gives a better impression than saying that I can make money from the system. I guess I feel that my way "Gives back" to the grid and helps with regard to saving energy, where as making money from the system seems like "Taking" and a bit mercenary. That view can be picked apart easily, but is my outlook on life. Giving something is more charitable than the trumpian "What's in it for ME?" Thank you for a good explainer though, I had not heard of the Intelligent Tariff before now!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Great points throughout your comment - thanks! Now that you mention about Octopus dropping the TEP, the rationale for the IOF tariff make more sense now. Am I correct in thinking that as a user, you could define the percentage of Powerwall that could be used for the VPP function? That would allow you to maintain your "don't draw from the grid" ambition, yeah?
@coniow Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar The minimum %age was set at 20% by Tesla. So, charge up to full in the early (otherwise Off Peak, except the Tesla Tariff was a single rate 24/7), morning, drain at 16:00Hrs until down to 20% again. With the Flux tariff I have control again. I also now have a better idea of my usage, so, whereas last year I would only discharge to 75%, now I am happy to go to 60% (given a decent following day), knowing I can last until the following SunUp without resorting to the mains. It does require keeping an eye on the SOC as once the level you have set is reached, the house load will start to pull FROM the mains. Discharge seems to stop at about 1% above the set limit, allowing time to switch back to "Use your own Solar" from the "Time Based Control" mode, and reset the limit back down to 20%. This year looks like I may 'Pay Off' my January/February usage a month earlier (end of April) than previous years, so I am well chuffed. But then, it has been a mild winter on the whole!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@coniow Thanks - great to know! 👍
@penkridgeresident6107 Ай бұрын
Good video. But have you actually compared the costs and incomes in a real-world scenario please? i.e. 1 year on Flux compared with 1 year on Intelligent flux.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks for your kind words about the video. Now, I personally have 6 months' data on Octopus Flux but have not tried IOF yet. And of course, the problem is that everyone's situation is different, so one person's real world data might not be very useful to another. Instead, I prefer to model outcomes using the tariff details in my utilities, which can be accessed here: www.garydoessolar.com/solarazma_pro_intro/
@penkridgeresident6107 Ай бұрын
Hello, First, Thank you for your reply. Yes I understand. I have also gone to Octopus Flux in the last 2 months....having invested in a Givenergy All-In-One and 7.6kWh PV panels. It is fair to say that we had quite a few installation issues with our installer, but all is sorted now; albeit some fixes were without the installer. It is now configured to maximise the Cheap rate import 2-5AM and Max rate export 4-7PM. Although I only export between 4-6PM, as I found that the battery would pause should the export go down to the set lower charge limit before the export schedule had expired i.e. if my export was set to discharge 4-7PM but the battery hit the lower charge threshold limit at 6:03PM, then the battery would pause until 7PM, and hence I would be pulling from the grid in the peak rate window until 7PM. I hope this makes sense to you. But the long shot is that I am fully recouping the electricity import charge and gaining 2-3x that value in exports. My take on the Intelligent Flux tariff is that the tariff tries to balance what you are importing against what you are exporting, so grid neutral only. Hence Flux seems to work well for me. And all of this without a need for any automation etc. Still I'd be interested to hear and see some other person's experiences. Thanks again Al
@TrevorHa Ай бұрын
I am trying to find the April 1st prices for io flux Eastern. But octopus won't tell me, told me to wait
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, I had trouble getting prices too - had to ask someone who was on the tariff to send over the email they got...
@TrevorHa Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar also just found out you can't join IO Flux if you have multiple Giv inverters. 1 inverter only, multiple batteries are fine. Limitations of the beta product I guess.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
@@TrevorHa That's good to know - thanks!
@johnh9449 Ай бұрын
Gary, you have a glitch at 2:32. Only a little one.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi John, yeah - I'm annoyed about that - a problem when Final Cut Pro was a processing my video. It has never happened before either :-(
@jasonblair4516 17 күн бұрын
I am on Octopus but applied to use Scottish Power for SEG because Octopus will not accept Flexi Orb installations and only accept MCS. They do have a trail scheme but to apply is £250! How much generation would you need to make to get your money back. SP is offer 12p so that’s the best option for Flexi Orb installations that I can see.
@GaryDoesSolar 17 күн бұрын
Hi Jason, that's a question only you can answer I think...?
@allan4787 Ай бұрын
Very well presented and explained as always. But my Tracker "Battery", as you refer to import, costs me nothing and is cheaper than this modified Flux tariff. I'm running at an average cost on tracker of 16.43p per KWh. "There is no economic reason for installing PV and/or batteries " discuss...... I'd love to see a costed reason why I am wrong. It's obvious to me that PV and batteries are a waste of money. Do I need to join your patreon group to prove that I am correct? I'm really not being deliberately awkward but it's just obvious to me that most if not all PV and battery installations are unsound on economic grounds. When I worked for a living I often had to work out if a new piece of equipment was cost effective to buy. Using the same methods I can't see that domestic Solar and batteries can ever pay for itself. Please can someone prove me wrong
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
It's one of the reasons why I developed those utilities - so people could model for themselves the costs and benefits of various investments. I'll leave to you as to whether it's worthwhile joining my Patreon to gain access to those utilities. I'd love to be able to offer them all for free, but they take thousands of hours to develop. As regards your wider question, all I can say is that for my situation, there are both financial and environmental benefits. And for many, even if there were no financial benefits, they'd still do it to help the environment. There are plenty of people on KZfaq who feel the same.
@allan4787 Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar We won't go there with the environment. There's a sort of religion where people believe that CO2 is responsible for climate change. The many scientists who argue against the 'religion' get no airing. But there are many videos out there of respected people showing at conferences how tenuous the argument for CO2 is. Volcanic activity is responsible for many times more CO2 and other green house gases than is generated because of human activity. As a scientist myself I've looked at their papers and lectures and it's tenuous at best. Not a doubt that the climate is warming but there are other causes. I won't be becoming a patreon. No disrespect , on tracker my electricity cost is about £800 per annum. A Tesla powerwall is £9000 + installation. Solar is £9000 for me. There is no way I can make money producing electricity at 33p or 53p. As I say no disrespect intended. Your early videos made me question things and talk to others. Some of them are authors of well known monitoring apps. One of whom really made me think.
@alanviolet4102 Ай бұрын
Can you do a video showing how energy companies make money when they offer a service that is designed to reduce your bill to almost zero.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi Alan, yeah - that's a good idea - it sounds counter-intuitive, but it all revolves around the wholesale price of electricity, which can go to zero (like it did today from midnight until 4pm) and can even go negative.
@SteveLoughran Ай бұрын
They’ll use your battery electricity at peak hours with their existing customers so not have to pay the power stations peak rate -or actually resell it. And you’re the one investing capital in the battery so they don’t have to. On those times when kWh are priced negatively (today!) they’ll turn every battery on, have it charge at max rate and then use in the evening for max revenue.
@krichardsuk Ай бұрын
Switched to intelligent flux today, but it's doing some very odd things. Started exporting from my battery between 7-8.30 outside of peak and then again from 9-9.30. Then it stopped using the battery and was importing from the grid even though the battery was at 50%. What on earth...
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Wow - that does sound a bit weird! Perhaps monitor over the next couple of days, and if carrier on behaving like that, just drop Octopus a note on hello@octopus.energy - hope it's all resolved soon!
@krichardsuk Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar yeah, it's carried on doing it something is definitely borked. Gonna go back to standard flux, at least I know what's going on then. Reached out to octopus but don't expect an answer for a few days.
@peppapog8376 28 күн бұрын
It appears you don’t have to give Octopus control for Intelligent. I have a LuxPower system at my house and i am on Intelligent Flux but still in full control of my system. Either Octopus did an oopsie or the control is optional
@GaryDoesSolar 28 күн бұрын
Sounds like Octopus did an oopsie to me, but hey - maybe it’s all good 👍🏻
@mcmullen7143 Ай бұрын
Sorry Gary. Just pulled the plug on Flux. Reasons? I can’t balance the average flux imports rates against the average Agile rates. Far more costly. Yes the flux export rate is higher than the fixed export rate but the drop in my import costs more than outweigh any extra export differential. Also no intelligent flux for PW2 6 months after announcement.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, I can understand that. I'm on Agile at the moment, and it's so good that it doesn't really make sense to try something like IOF... Re. PW2, Tesla don't allow third party access as a matter of policy, and that's unlikely to change. Tesla is more about supplying product that just works (especially with their on VPP offering in some countries) and so they don't want other parties 'inside' their product causing issues, I'm thinking...
@simonhenry7867 Ай бұрын
Is that different from 'intelligent octopus'
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Intelligent Octopus, the EV tariff was renamed to “Intelligent Octopus Go” in preparation for other intelligent tariffs. I know, it’s confusing!
@davidscott3292 Ай бұрын
Couldn't follow the argument about how all this helps to smooth the difference between the amount of solar generation between summer and winter(?).
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi David, so in Summer, you'll likely be generating lots more solar generation than you can use, so it gets exported to the grid. And in winter, it's the opposite, your solar generation is less than the energy your require, so you're importing from the grid. But because the import and export rates are the same, the grid is essentially acting as an infinite battery. So, over the summer, you're building up a positive financial balance on your energy account due to all the paid export, then over the winter that balance depletes given the import you're paying for, Overall, it balances out, therefore a "smoothing" effect. Make sense?
@Yorkshireasaurus Ай бұрын
Unfortunately Gary the UK's 3rd world infrastructure is on it's knees in most rural areas and although I can generate way more than I can use especially during the better months the DNO have refused any exporting.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, it's such a shame the UK can't be a world-leader here - we have all the pieces and so it just needs investment. And as an investment, it's pretty low risk! I despair sometimes...
@offgridwanabe Ай бұрын
It makes it easier to just shut off the grid during peak times.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Crikey - maybe a bit too much, but effective ;-)
@stevenbarrett7648 20 күн бұрын
Just got our latest octopus statement apparently they failed to bill for gas since July 2023 and now expect us to pay a massive bill for their failure !!!. Also they said the meter that came with their smart meters doesn’t work with the tariff we are using !. I give up
@GaryDoesSolar 17 күн бұрын
Hi Steven, sorry to hear about this. How about asking Octopus for a repayment plan over 12 months. You can always go to the Ombudsman, but I know Octopus to be a fair company. Ultimately, you still owe the money for the gas consumed, but it's not your fault that Octopus failed to bill you, leaving you with a very large bill now.
@stevenbarrett7648 17 күн бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar and thats the very issue Gary, do I owe this money or is it another octo miscalculation ? They did the very same a year or so ago ‘forgot’ to invoice for an entire years worth of electricity !. I wonder how many other people have ‘forgotten’ bills heading their way ???.
@GaryDoesSolar 17 күн бұрын
@@stevenbarrett7648 I would download the LOOP app and look at your actual smart meter data to see how much you actually used: loop.homes
@goodcat1982 Ай бұрын
From what i can tell, intelligent flux is smarter. :)
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Yeah, I was cynical before, but after analysing it, I actually really like it!
@goodcat1982 Ай бұрын
@@GaryDoesSolar I just meant it was smarter because it has intelligent in the name hehe 😀
@edwardwilcox8982 Ай бұрын
My question is "Can I use Intelligent Octopus Flux and still have FIT payments?"
@daviddb2528 Ай бұрын
I would like to know this as well. I see my FIT "provider " , Good Energy, have just changed their T&Cs in that I now have tell them if I have a "storage sevice" installed.
@edwardwilcox8982 Ай бұрын
@daviddb2528 I'm with Good Energy, too. I remember wondering what "storage service's" was.
@daviddb2528 Ай бұрын
@@edwardwilcox8982 I must admit I've only had the time (& inclination) Edward, to just skim their revised t&c's - there may be more detail down in the weeds. But I do feel a little mistrustful of them since they unilaterally changed the export payment tariff element of our FIT contact from calculated to measured. It's made a mockery of our initial return on investment calculations. The calculation of which over the sort of periods one is dealing with with solar I think is becoming increasingly thumb in the air. The thought of switching tariffs several times a year for maximum efficiency does not fill me with enthusiasm :-)
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Hi Edward, apologies - I don't know too much about the UK FiT scheme, but hopefully other comments in this thread are helpful to you...
@JH-fv1gq Ай бұрын
So Octopus controls your battery and smart meter. Ok. But when its taken over it will be controlled by a foreign operator like all the suppliers and Will be milked for as much as they can get.
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
You could always change provider at that time, of course… 👍🏻
@Sean_S1000 Ай бұрын
Or if your really concerned, move some where with lots of sun shine and a stream and live off grid to have ultimate control. Shamefully control is largely out of our hand these days
@leehouten2345 Ай бұрын
I refuse to move my utilities to a company that has so many different tariffs. It’s just too confusing
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
I get where you're coming from - too much choice can be paralysing... But I'm hoping my videos help folks navigate through all the options to find out what best works for them...
@genericuser2339 Ай бұрын
Heard it all before with TEP. Started off great and then they screwed with it a little, then a little more, then a little more …oh look it’s not no longer beneficial to me at all!! Thx but no thx octopus been there done that!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Sorry, your experience with TEP wasn't too great. I think it's coming back soon with Tesla Energy, which the company starts operating in the UK...
@StevenHenry-bx8vy Ай бұрын
Great video Gary - unfortunately I'm having issues with the set up for switching as it gets stuck after logging into my GivEnergy account where it just hangs and won't go any further. I've emailed help@octopus and smart@octopus but they are not responding. Have you any suggestions on completing the set up? Thanks.
@user-uu5sy9vy8o Ай бұрын
Hi Steve, I along with several others like yourself trying to sign up to IOG are having this problem! I have been in touch with both Givenergy & Octopus who in turn have liaised & advised that it is an Octopus issue . I am waiting for Octopus to resolve the issue !
@StevenHenry-bx8vy Ай бұрын
Thanks- let’s hope it’s not too long a wait!
@GaryDoesSolar Ай бұрын
Thanks - now, they might be busy over the Easter weekend I guess - not least because the new rates came into force today, so a lot of prep within the business to prepare... I think you'll get a reply to your email in the next couple of days, fingers crossed!
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