I'd like to add some points from the opposite perspective. I'm very active and competitive in Kendo for many years now and observe HEMA occasionally without knowing too much about it. I agree with what you are saying but want to add a few things to subjects you briefly touched upon. Predominantly, yes, we do hold the sword in front. It's called Chudan and above the head is called Jodan like you correctly mentioned. Jodan is still very alive but uncommon as is Nito which uses two swords. The reason Chudan is dominant is because it is a well rounded stance with good defense and offensive capabilities. Jodan is an advanced stance that leaves many targets open in favor of a quicker attack. Jodan also saw a decline in popularity when thrusts to the body was a valid point making Jodan hard to use in competition. That is no longer the case and Jodan is seeing an increase in popularity especially since a Jodan player won the Japanese national championship a few years back. I found your reasoning for the small variety of stances a bit lacking. Kendo does have more stances (Chudan, Jodan, Gedan, Hasso, Waki, Seigan/Kasumi) but the real reason they are not used is because they don't work in today's kendo. For example, Waki is held behind the body to conceal the length of the sword. Kendo is now standardized and everyone has the same length sword and speed is so important that if you tried that stance, you would lose really quickly. A couple other points, we do have a cut to the wrist. We aren't given points for hitting accidentally. A clean solid attack is encouraged which does away with really awkward attacks. This however also leads to the simultaneous hits like you mentioned which would kill both swordsman. Only the one who was faster/cleaner gets awarded the point. This does not mean that we do not know how to counter though. Kendo still teaches a lot of block+counter hits(kaeshi waza), dodging+counter attacking(nuki waza), knocking the opponent's sword away+attacking(harai waza), and disarming(maki waza). If you search "kendo in slow motion" in youtube you can see a really nice counter hit in slow motion near the beginning of the video. From my also superficial point of view, sport fencing looks closer to Kendo than it is to HEMA in that they both attack at the same time with disregard to their own life as long as they score first. Kendo is not indeed how Samurai fought. I'm impressed you knew about the grappling, most kendo practitioners don't know about it. I respect that your video was pretty neutral in point of view despite your only basic level training in kendo. Thanks for reading this wall of text.

learning any martial arts is better than nothing at all.. :)

I've done all three- longsword, sport fencing and kendo. I don't think either transition particularly well into longsword from a mechanics point of view. As you said, you learn basics like distance and timing. However I think you are missing a critical distinction with kendo. You must strike correctly and show awareness of the coming afterblow (zanshin). It certainly looks like a lot of simultaneous hitting from the outside, but it is there as a concept. That's not something I found true of sport fencing. You either had ROW to protect you or you would out speed your opponent. The largest difference being that the quality of the tip was unimportant in fencing. Its also extremely linear where kendo is fought in the round. If I were to pick one, to say is most similar it would be kendo. However if you're hoping to transition there is a big big big but here. In a short period of time you are going to get a lot larger scope of techniques in fencing. In kendo you spend a lot, and I mean a lot of times on the basics before you branch out into stuff you learn early on at most HEMA clubs. I'm talking probably 3-4 Dan before you get to experiment with stuff outside of a very narrow scope. However if I were to pick a hachidan kendoka and an A ranked national level sport fencer and hand them both a longsword my money would be on the kendoka.

Here is early film of pre-Kendo (known then as 'Gekken), from 1897: The first kendo motion picture - from 1897

Totally true. I remember back when i was in highschool we started off in kendo with a friend, and after a while it became evident it was full of limitations that weren't natural and were there to make it a sport. While we continued with it, I mostly practiced and never went to competitions, because it didn't feel like swordsmanship. Meanwhile a few of us looked into the old stuff outside the practice, kenjutsu and seveal sources and tried some more battle ready techniques. We developped a different standart of not allowing any hits, as opposed to based on clean hits, when trying out stuff on our own. (Note I was the only teen, the others were 25 or so, so we weren't dumb teens doing dumb stuff on our own out of sight of the sensei)

As always very informative, Matt. Good distinction between Kendo and Kenjutsu, fairly important to remark.

There are actually three stances typically used in Kendo (not including nito ryu). The two you mention (middle and high guard, chudan and jodan respectively) and a third lower guard called gaydan*. While technically the last guard is taught as part kata, it is not trained as part of any of the typical sparring techniques. However, I’ve found that more advanced fighters do learn to use it over time, I think partly evolving from the use of middle guard. This happens naturally, as it’s a very defensible position, making it hard for someone to hit your wrist, and still be able to quickly recover the middle. I use this a lot to stop lunges by spiking them with the tip. It’s great fun, and surprises people who don’t expect to have their entire body motion halted by the shinai. (But like all things, it’s only a matter or time before they figure that trick out.) I point this out because there are a lot of kata stances never used in fighting. But gaydan is, just no one officially teaches it for that purpose. Really says something about the effectiveness of a stance when you learn it naturally from another similar stance. *Forgive my spelling. I’m trying to be phonetic.

I have to say, something really good you learn in kendo is how to develop your fighting spirit, your pressure and overall presence.

Great video, but some comments about kendo/Kenjustu may be helpful: First of all, in practical terms kendo and kenjutsu are not that different. They have huge differences in philosophical goals, but speaking about practice, postures, hitting places, foot work, etc, they are almost identical (exception made to the "katas" or choreographed patterns of movements ). Actually in Japan, it is common to practice both kendo as a common ground and the kenjutsu kata as a family or dojo/style tradition. Second it is not a rule that right foot should be in front all the time. Actually this depends on several factors, cutting movement, opponent posture and, specially, your fighting posture or "kamae". Which, by the way, in kendo you have 5 basic postures when using just 1 sword : chudan, jodan, gedan, waki, hasso. And sometimes you have slightly variations in one basic posture, like the chudan (sword in front of the body, that you mentioned in the video), you can point to face, to the throat or if the opponent is in jodan (sword above the head) you can point to his left wrist. In kendo you can use 2 swords too (short sword in one hand and a longer sword in the other). Nevertheless, you are right to say that chudan posture is the most basic and most common posture in kendo. Other postures are not meant to be teach to beginners or even intermediate students, but this doesn't mean that they do not exist. cheers

Your video was pretty fair, thank you for making it. As someone who does kendo, I can say we know that we're not performing samurai duel simulations or reenactments when we enter a kendo tournament, we are there to win, which means attack the targets and don't let you opponent attack yours. It's unfortunate that the techniques have to be limited to attacks on certain target areas, but I think there are good reasons for that. First of all, for those of you who don't know, "kenjutsu" isn't really one thing, it's a blanket term for any school who teaches traditional sword martial arts. Many of these schools varied wildly in terms of techniques and philosophies. If you don't believe me, look up Katori Shinto Ryu and Jigen Ryu on youtube and see if you think they are the same. Now some kenjutsu schools had more influence on the creation of kendo than others. Notably, Ono-ha Itto Ryu had a large influence, which you can see in their emphasis on the kote (forearm) attack, which made its way into kendo. Secondly, I will address the shinai. Bamboo practice swords date back to the 17th century, when they were used by several schools in order to allow students to make contact with the opponent during kata (forms). When gekkiken or gekken became a thing in the 19th century, bamboo swords were used in order to avoid injury. Yes they were light, but wood breaks bones and if it's 1900 and you break a bone by being an idiot and sparring full contact with a wooden sword you're pretty much shit out of luck. Our primary target is the head, so you can figure that one out. We still use bamboo shinai today because the Japanese tend to be conservative and want to preserve tradition in our martial art. I hope that cleared a few things up, let me know if you have any questions about kendo and I will do my best to answer.

There are some tools from Kendo that can transfer. I have just been doing some longsword drills with my big heavy suburi bokken as an arm strengthening exercise. My Rawlings longsword (with a steel crossguard) feels like a toothpick after practicing with that thing, it weighs about the same but it has the opposite weight balance. Suburi Bokken are exaggeratedly forward heavy on purpose. Need to be very careful about overdoing it with those, so far I have been going very slowly and concentrating on footwork, hand position and edge alignment.

Interesting discussion. Late to this one unfortunately. The first fencing class I had access to was a class in foil in college. I don't think that prepared me for longsword in any way; perhaps it prepared me for spearwork, but there it is. If one can find a kenjutsu school, then I imagine one can find a HEMA school. The "limited" targets in kendo are the "good" ones, and the ones that a fighter should be rewarded for targeting intentionally, rather than bumping into accidentally. Anyway, oranges and apples, as it were.

on the matter of the guard stances there is a reason why only two guards are commonly used in kendo. Matt mentions a mid level guard (Chudan), and a high level guard/s (Jodan ) . There are actually three other guards Gedan, Waki and Hasso. Of the 3 Gedan is the only one that really sees any use, its a stance where the shinai is held point downwards and its used for transitioning into tsuki (thrust to the throat) from the standard Chudan position, but considering the rarity of a tsuki attack compared to the main cuts of Men(head), Do (torso) and kote(gauntlet/wrist) its not used much . Waki is a defensive stance where the shinai is held parallel to the ground with the pommel towards the opponent, its intended to disguise the angle of attack and also conceal the length of the shinai and thus confuse the opponent as to the range of your strike (something which Gedan also does to a lesser extent), however as all shinai are now of a standardised dimensions for competition use Waki has pretty much fallen out of usage in kendo. Hasso is cosmetically slightly similar to Jodan, the shinai is held at upper chest height with the tip vertical. The point of hasso is flexibility, it is intended to be able to transition into an attack or a defence from any angle, however given the limited variety of possible strikes in modern kendo Hasso has like the Waki and Gedan fallen out of use with the exception of some kata.

Kenjutsu is for combat and survival, Kendo is for sport and get points for winning tournments or trophy.

You always manage to discuss differences between HEMA and other forms of martial study without taking the piss out of the other guy. I respect that.

The purpose of Kendo is to take the most difficult strikes and the most difficult guard positions and to put them together in a competitive manner to allow the two practitioners to be able to better understand and use those difficult strikes without being hit in turn. So it is very relevant to traditional Japanese sword training, but in a specific context.

This is so interesting., I've trained Gumdo for a few years, a korean sword art, and now I've started Hema, with longsword acording to Lichtenauer. Sometimes I feel like a pro, cause I recognize or translate the movements. Other times I feel like a complete beginner. Shattering to the ego, haha.

I think you misunderstand the intent of why modern kendo (which dates back more than 300 years) chooses to reduce target areas -- the goal was to increase training realism, not to introduce a "sport" element. The philosophy was to choose the most important targets, then armor them so they could be struck at full speed and force without damaging the practitioners. The same cannot be said of steel fechtschwerts (without causing a high risk of damage.) I think a reasonable comparison would be a comparison of traditional japanese jiu-jitsu (pre Judo) and brazillian jiu-jitsu. BJJ has removed many of much more dangerous neck cranks and small joint manipulations from its repetoire, so it is more "limited." As a result however, training sessions are much more intense, and I would claim that at intermediate levels, a BJJ practitioner generally bests a JJ practitioner simply by degree of practice. At high levels, all bets are off, and the JJ artist has more tools in his/her belt. I'm not saying that one philosophy is necessarily better: there are trade offs. More "realistic" targeting that is restricted in intensity, or more intense training that is restricted in area. As I kendoka, I obviously disagree with my HEMA brethren, but I do respect what they do.

There are still schools of Kendo to be found that lead into Kenjustu, or more specifically for me Nitojutsu (Two sword technique which most people think of from the movies) etc. But I take your meaning for the most part the modern schools found at most rec centres, YMCA etc. are the modernised "fencing" style version. Done more as a sport than a serious attempt to give any fundamentals in training with a sword. I trained at such a school for a while before moving onto a Kenjustu school recommended by my Kendo Sensei. I found the particular Kendo classes I had taken really did make a big difference (for the life of me I cannot remember the name they gave it, sorry was many years ago now), and ended up giving me a clear advantage over my peers in the class. Though it took a long time to find such classes to begin with, and muddle through advertisements for a lot sporty versions first. I'm not even sure if the classes I went to are held anymore to be honest. Which is somewhat sad if you ask me, it's a fading part of tradition. Even in Japan apparently, as it has been sterilised and bastardised for use in schools and such, for children and teens basically. Which is the origin of the modern form of "Kendo" you find being taught from what I can tell.

mmm.. yes, so just a few things come to mind: First of all - the idea that kenjutsu is the true way of the samurai sword while kendo is just a sport is very questionable. No one today trains like the samurai because the environment is completely different. How did samurai train? how many hours a day? on what kind of a ground? what kind of tools did they use to make their training "realistic"? No one can really answer these questions these days because we lack this information - what we do have is the forms "kata" which were passed trough generations, and today this is the main component of most koryu that involve the sword. The kendo was created by the samurai and their children - because it served a purpose - it was a way to pass the core of swordfighting to the next generation, and I think it did exactly that. I practice Tendo-ryu (A koryu which uses a variety of weapons, and is completely taught in "kata" form) and atarashi naginata (a "sport" form of using a naginata). And I can easily see that while the sport of naginata limits me in targets and "rules" (which are very similar to kendo) - it also gives me a lot of stuff that the Tendo ryu lacks. And here I come to the main benefit of kendo aginata - it has a unique culture of getting really into training hard. You work relentlessly to clean your position, your grip, your timing, your assesment of proper distance and reaction to the opponent. And this is something that the HEMA guys (in the place I live) lack. They simply don't practice enough on their basics. I sparr with them quite regularly. They usually are slower, their strikes are off balance, they target minor areas, they don't control their cut angle so well... etc. Now - this has nothing to do with HEMA as a system - i'm sure that some people over the world practice HEMA just as hard as the top kendoka. So rather then asking a question "which is better - kendo or HEMA" - I would just say that there is benefit in learning the tough kendo attitude and take it to your own practices :-) Have tons of fun practicing. HEMA is great - when done properly.

I've been doing kendo for a while and recently picked up historical fencing and this video is spot on, I'd like to add: - kendo fighting is only situated in a duel so all techniques are oriented to this - kendo techniques are reduced in order to specialize and focus, this means the techniques are rather simple to learn so winning is more about mastering them than about learning new ones. this means the best master wins, not the trickiest one (which doesn't represent a real battle field). this means that you reach a technical draw between opponents early in the kendo career, and the rest is left to "spiritual fight" which translates to anticipation, domination of centre and line, reading the opponent through subtleties and behaving with total confidence showing no weakness. - kendo "points" are only one-hit kills, injuring an opponent, debilitating or otherwise disabling him are ignored, you either cleave the head in half, slice the hand off, cut the opponent in half or thrust right through the neck, the rest being considered a waste of energy. - kendo's limited attacks and techniques allow for a very committed and all-out fight, as you can hit really hard and use much more violence, something you can't do with metal swords and being able to hit anywhere Where I find kendo helps me is a) do not think you know, keep a blank sheet/open mind and only pick things form kendo when you are sure it works, b) winning the centre and keeping distance comes naturally, c) you are very economical in movements, and you do not develop flourishes and taunts that are a waste of energy (basically you don't buy into the bullshido) and finally d) you know how to learn, and it is by listening intently, not challenging the master, repeating techniques 1000 times, keeping fit physically and mentally and reading the opponent. This gives you an advantage as a student NOT as an opponent.

Got a guy who used to do Kendo at my club. His progression is insane.

Hey Matt, I love your videos about what the hilt design tells you about how the sword is used. Could you make a video about the hilt of a kris? That shape really puzzles me...

I studied kendo 2 years and it's clearly different thing from European fencing, as you pointed out, the judges look for the perfect hit. That doesn't mean back in the days the samurai used a variety of hits and tactics to defeat their opponents but, as I've read in the historical books, most fights were defined by single blows with probably 1 or 2 parries, not much cutting action, just fatal blows. Kendo is the basic of swordmanship. After that, there's dozens of swordmanship schools that specialize in different techniques, some really effective and others, a mere legend.

It seems to me the arguments occur when people of different camps disparage arts they have little real knowledge of. I have trained in Kendo for only ten years and find Matt and Skallagrim thoughtful, informative and useful regarding sword use. I have a katana and a bastard sword and enjoy them both.

I quite agree with what you say. Kendo is about how to deliver a perfect blow at right distance and timing. I practice kendo for four years, and I'm really interested in HEMA.

your videos are awesome man, i salute you

Did a little bit of kendo study and I continually find myself rightfoot forward when I should be left foot forward. It's taken about 2 months but I'm finally starting to sort myself out again with the footwork.

Why is the sound cut off in the last few seconds?

Since you bring it up, Wing Chun Kung Fu is actually an excellent art to study for anyone who is interested in Historical Fencing, and vice versa. This is especially true of Lichtenauer's system of the longsword, where the principles are uncannily similar; direct lines of attack, simultaneous attack and defense, sensing at the bind, and what we refer to as "lat sau jik chung," or "following after" all come into play. The physical techniques are unrelated of course, but the concepts, principles, and approach to combat are very much the same. Practicing one has without a doubt improved my understanding of the other.

Great video! Still, do You know any good, example video of kenjutsu (not kendo) and HEMA practitioners sparring? I have no background in weapon fighting but still I'm very curious what are the main differences.

That's similar to what we thought. Sports fencing and Kendo are not very good to learn real fencing. But there are little opportunities to have a real fencing club next to you! Of course you can do fencing on your own, but a club would be better!

Professor, Kendo have a low, back guard position too, to prevent oponent calculate your true reach. Is far less used, but is a third guard position.

I would love it if I could get to either kind of club. I think that most people have to grab what they can.

I practice traditional japanese swordsmanship and kenjutsu but I also want to do HEMA I just wanna do them both equally

Actually my main problem in Longsword fencing at the moment ist the ingrained footwork from sportfencing... :P I always find myself somehow standing in line...

Afternoon Matt, I was wondering. What brands or sources of various kinds of sparing equipment would you recommend? Particularly for rapier fencing. I've had some 1 on 1 experience in the past but I haven't had a partner for it for several years. I've also never had anything I didn't find by blind luck or rigged up myself, and recently I've been wanting to get back into it.

Lacking a Hema opportunity, I practice something similar to Kendo. They got some fancy techniques, which I would never use in a real fight and I noticed that even advanced practitioners get a problem when you bind the shinai (for instance block and rotate them until you get a thrusting or cutting opportunity). Still there is pleanty to learn (footwork, coordination, reaction/timing...).

Kenjutsu person here: The biggest things I've noticed in trying to learn HEMA Longsword are namely -- A) European longswords are two edged. E.g. learning lichtenauer's zwerchhau correctly was difficult given that I'm used to rotating the weapon in order to have correct edge alignment. It seemed awkward and senseless until I fundamentally understood that there are two edges. B) Blocking and intentionally binding with the edge. Japanese parries rely on the spine and the flat of the sword, given how brittle the edge is. E.g. learning to block and reposte a hau with another hau seemed anathema to me.

Could you talk about wavy bladed swords like Kris or Flambard? I do´nt see any advantage in it side to it looking cool. Thank you in advance

I'm inclined to agree with you.

I largely agree with you, Matt, and I wanted to post on your comments section to give context to those that are interested in why Kendo seems so sterile and backwards to the way someone might presume it should work. I do have some grievances with your arguments so I'll get that out of the way now to clear the air and to give some insight for my explanations of the why's later on. First of all, I'm not talking from a point of inexperience. I'm a third degree black belt (3Dan or Sandan) and I have spent time researching the historical basis for my beloved martial art. I make that distinction that contradicts one of your stronger argument because it wasn't made with a well-rounded view of kendo. Shiai, or the sport competition side of, kendo is emphasized by most clubs and by most Kendo Federations, but it isn't the whole side. Like many eastern martial arts, they have a set of choreographed exchanges or demonstrations showing their principles for fighting, commonly referred to as kata. The following link is to a video of the other side of kendo, its kata side. Nihon Kendo Kata As you can see, the many of the statements you made about kendo practitioners disregarding cuts to their own person or their reluctance to change stance or footing aren't accurate here. We see dynamic movement and avoidance of the opponent's sword here. These demonstrate a more realistic exchange between two swordsman and a kendo club who practices these often would provide a solid historical basis for their practices. I agree with your points about the shiai side, but to say kendo at large has these problems inherently is to miss the nuance of the situation. Now, on to the context for why kendo has diverged so much from historical kenjutsu. To understand the rift you have to know the cause. Essentially, it's because militaristic practices were banned by the US during the occupation of Japan following World War II. Matt states the old videos from the 30s and 20s look closer to a historically accurate art and it's true. Those videos were taking before kendo was banned, when all of the techniques were allowed and preserved. A quick look to the kendo page of wikipedia will tell you that after Japan's Independence was restored, Kendo came back into practice. It didn't come back the same beast though. Many techniques were banned for being too brutal or aggressive and a shift came from practicing a sword art (something that has inherent merit and value, one which you can derive meaning from) to practicing a sword art to educate and enrich in order to separate kendo from the "militaristic and aggressive" image it had. This shift caused by the emphasis change created a completely different meta-game that is alive today. Grappling, throwing, and any disarming method that uses either of those stratagems were banned. This meant that you could "clinch", to use a boxing term, without much fear of being hurt in the process. This changes the meta-game immensely. Instead of avoid a cut you can close the distance, and as a rule, during a dodge you can be caught off balance and be struck but if you close the distance it puts your opponent at the same disadvantage of distance. A lot of stances that deal with protecting your body by moving it out of the distance of your opponent become obsolete when you can close the distance with less effort(mental effort of re-apprising your situation and never losing vigilance during your stance transition) and opportunity for your opponent. Along with that, there is a principle called "yuko datotsu", which means "perfect strike" and that is what the judges are looking for. They're looking for a strike that has solid basics and executed with perfect timing and it can be a while and multiple strikes before that sort of strike happens. You can see how the judges work on this principle in the old videos too. A flurry of strikes will go through before one kenshi gets the best of the others. Hell, there's even archaeological evidence that those types of flurries actually happened in real sword fights in japan. You'll have to trust me on that, a quick google search didn't furnish the same articles I've seen before and I don't have the time to read up on the new ones. The problem is that with yuko-datotsu in judging is that a judge will have to be able to decipher if the strike was made correctly and with correct form, so getting a point relies heavily on the judge being familiar the stances and techniques being used by the competitors and the judges knowing what dictates what a perfect strike from those stances look like. So, because everyone can't learn everything, the most well known and used stances will have their strikes called more, because more people can recognize a yukodatotsu from those stances. This puts stances that are specialized in use at a huge disadvantage. Boiling all of this down, you end up with only a few stances winning out in the long run because they prioritize what is naturally prioritized by the rules set in place. The less known stances or the stances that don't emphasize points encouraged by the rules are left unused because they simply won't win enough within those confines. Dominant Strategy hobbled diverse swordsmanship in Shiai kendo. That being said, you can still use those stances when you don't want or need to win, so I use them out of shiai. I use the stances chudan, jodan, wakigamae, gedan, hassou, segan, and variations of all of those in jigeiko, or open sparring. Doing this doesn't hurt my kendo, it informs it and I feel like a much better swordsman as a result. I mean, I made it to the finals in my regional division twice in a row and have gone to two national competitions, so I can't be doing too bad.

There are four guards I know of, though chudan (the middle guard) is most common (for obvious reasons. Chudan. Jodan, where you hold the sword over your head, pointing up or back. I believe it's gedan where you hold the sword point up next to your right shoulder. There's also one where you hold the sword pointing down and back to your right side, it's pretty tricky. To my understanding Kendo strikes are awarded as to whether or not the judges expect they would penetrate and mortally wound through armor; so there's an expected/required windup to each blow (with the noted exception of the tsuki, or thrust, which uses the weight of the whole body in a short but really hard punch), and you have to find ways to work it into an offensive rhythm.

Hey, Matt, what are your thoughts on two weapon fighting? or duel wielding? Have you ever done it? Have you posted something and I missed it? just curious. :)

Here is, based on my experiences, a pretty solid path to learning HEMA. If you have never fenced with a bladed weapon and you either can't find or don't want to jump right into a full-on HEMA club, find a reputable sport fencing club and learn epee. Of the three sport fencing weapons it is, in my opinion the least whippy-zippy feeling one. Sport saber and foil have a lot of rules about when touches are and aren't counted that can be off-putting. Epee, on the other hand, is simply a "hit the other person first" weapon. Also, while not based on a battle weapon, epees were at one point used in duels, the only difference, obviously, being that the tip was needle-sharp. Overall I'd say the main benefit in sport fencing is learning good footwork and getting a feel for the way blades interact with each other, developing a feel for distance, timing and planning of and reaction to attacks. From there I would move up to "dueling saber" or "heavy saber". A sport club probably won't have a coach who can teach this. I recommend this weapon because while an epee has no usable edge on it, a dueling saber would have had both a lethal point and a lethal edge. You'll learn a lot about how a blade behaves when they come into contact during cutting / parry motions rather than sliding / disengaging motions (though there is a lot of that too). Next I'd recommend rapier as you should now have a good feel for using a blade that is intended for thrusting and one that is geared more toward cutting. While it's debatable how lethal a cut from a rapier is, it's still something that was done, so you'll need both skill sets. At that point I'd say moving on to either single-handed sword + a parrying device (buckler/dagger) is a good place to go, or even longsword if you like. This isn't the exact path I've followed, and believe me I'm not highly experienced, but this is what seems ideal to me.

when taking a kenjutsu class this "southpaw" stance all the time drove me crazy. the korean offsprings of japanese sword styles are in this case more like hema and switching stances way more often. i felt way better there.

Have you seen Nito Kendo? Its basicly 2 weapon fighting ( right hand the normal shinai and left hand a shorter shinai to parry but also to attack. Its quite uncommon and not really seen as traditional Kendo. Still its apparantly perfectly legal to use in training and to spar (12Th World Kendo Championship - Nitto). I started to kendo because my HEMA group was training to far away from me to train regularly. So I started with HEMA first and then moved to Kendo to stay in shape. A lot of the comments you made I'd recognise and I'm actually pushing to learn to apply the techniques from the Kata's and the stances (although such things are usually quite disencouraged). I'd have to say that the simple repetition exercises do help your swing and distance. The kiai aka the shouting, helps in HEMA as well (for me at least). Footwork still feels quite unnatural even after a year. I agree with you its a nice sport, it helps with some parts of HEMA. It gave my swings and stance a lot more conviction.

Again a really useful video. :)

as someone whom i think is a fast adapter to situations in fighting i used my 4 years of experience in kendo to observe my HEMA opponents wait for the time to strike a weakness then on the spot create a technique that was loosely based on kendo that could allow me to both get into a good position and attack simultaneously. i'm not sure if it would just be me or if it was because i had my kendo experience of fighting my sensei 1 on 1 for 2 years (he was a 5th DAN) but all of my opponents were really slow in comparison, like so slow that i was barely trying, they weren't anywhere near the speed i was used to fighting and reacting to, which is why i believe kendo is a great starter to any martial art, especially if you have a sensei like i used to.

My experience with sport fencing is that it is very offensive and exchanges are usually very short. Since there is no real injury or death involved opponents tend to be offensive much more than defensive.

As a HEMA-preferential, cruciform sword-preferential person, I often find the HEMA community underrates kendo severely. It bears remarkable resemblance to a kind of condensed Liechtenauer tradition, and its emphasis on mastery of the basics is critical, as the better fencer in a bout or duel is usually the one with the better grasp of the fundamentals. While I agree that kendo is too condensed to be completely applicable outside of its sporting context, a reasonable understanding and appreciation for keno is beneficial to any fencer of any style. It isn't as "complete" we tend to like things in the HEMA community, but it brings out the minimalist in everyone, both technically and strategically.

i generally dont use 1 martial arts for any style of fighting i honestly will just use what ever that is needed or bits and pieces i pick up over the years so i would support kendo but i cant nowdays as it is so different than what i learned

Wow! As a former kendoka I'm pretty sure kendoka all over the world will love this video. :D

It may be useful to add that for the same reasons, naginatado isn't too good a background if one whishes to learn using a glaive, a halberd or indeed, a naginata. .

seigan is a guard with blade pointing forward , haso on a side and jodan is raised over the head .

I learn sprezzatura very quickly just because i am doing low intensity sparring with 3 dan kendoka, yeaahh he make me know about "seme", the sprezzatura in Bolognese Fencing

Well many of the points you have raised result in the fact that Kendo and fencing are, to my understanding, a martial sport, and not a martial art like the HEMA and Kenjutsu. Much like the difference between boxing, a sport, with rules and techniques developed to accommodate said rules, and a martial arts that's main focus is self defence. Similar is the difference between the Taekwonndo sport which is based on almost exclusively kicks, to the martial art of Taekwondo which is more comprehensive.

you said bujinkan subscribed

There's also the fact that all japanese swords had only one edge, while many european longswords had a false edge. That changes the way you can potentially grab the blade, and how you can strike with it, so that's pretty significant I think.

On second thought, I'll have to retract my previous statement. The caveats and... Self abbreviated nature of his perspective here, makes his perspective more viable than I initially felt. At beginner level and purely from the perspective of how modern SPORT kendo is performed... I'll agree. It's however incongruous with my experience of kendo as it was taught along side of iai and kenjutsu. So the kendo I practiced was not indicative of the kind of kendo practiced as typical sport. I had three seperate instructors and due to a lot of the two swords work I did and the nature of the rules of hema vs kendo, I initially balked at this assumption. So... No. With the caveats and direction of the general and beginners level kendo... No. It's not a fantastic basis for hema.... Particularly longsword with all the passing steps.

Kendo like modern sport fencing is when a martial art continues on long after its mode of offense and defense has been rendered obsolete by new technologies namely firearms. Many of these martial arts then become recreational activities that in some ways become disconnected from their origins. This is probably a big reason behind the interest in HEMA since practitioners are striving to recreate the old methods and theories.

How similar would you say modern sport fencing is to kendo in terms of transferring skills to historical martial arts (Asian, European or otherwise) and in its stylisation and removement (not sure if those are real words) from historical swordsmanship?

Hey, I've been wondering about how to properly defend against a thrust in kendo when I am using a shinai, or when I use escrima sticks. I am more accustomed to the escrima sticks. I went to a kendo club for the first time and we did some sparring at the end. I was frequently stabbed partly because of my awkwardness with the shinai. Any tips? For the shinai or escrima sticks (dual or single)? Thanks.

Could a shinai be used as a training weapon for longsword fencing or is it too short?

The "Fairly limited repertoire" is a Start. It's some training. Arguably very little, but better than none. SO, the question is is it a Good basis. It's better than none.

Hello Matt ! I have a question : 1) When fighting with the saber, the left hand is always behind the hip . My question is : Is it possible to keep your hand behind your hip in a melée ? i mean when fighting in melée , u can be attacked by several opponents .So how can a swordsman keep his hand in a real fight ?

What do you think of FMA as a basis for HEMA?

Hey Matt! I was wondering... Are you interested in claymores? The big two-handers, I mean. And if you are, could you talk about them maybe? It's never come to my attention if they have technical treatises or a specific fencing style. Cheers!

Good morning Matt! I made a video response to you specifically on the matter, I hope you enjoy it. A response to Matt Easton of scholagladiatoria - Kendo and Japanese martial arts Have a great day to all!

As with all things, "Absorb what is useful."

Basis? It's better than never having held a sword. There's some muscle memory, and cutting practice (Even though Shinai don't cut, you're taught to strike as if you are cutting.)

Hi Matt H I study kenjutsu hopefully will be testing for black belt end of this year and TKD 3rd dan I am interested in all combat arts especially sword and would like to get into HEMA I am living in Swindon Any advice please

Answer: About as well as sport fencing teaches you rapier fighting.

After I look into few Kenjutsu videos, I notice there are even half-swording, wrestliing, disarm techniques just like HEMA.

Thanks will give them a call

What do you mean by "HEMA Lonsgword"? Isnt what is most known about it come from different sources, some of which are contradictory? For example, in the Dobringer Codex the author says not to attack the opponent;s blade, but binds and beats can be seen in Fiore and Talhoffer. In contrast kendo has a defined rule set and curriculum. Is there a defined ruleset for HEMA competition as well as a curriculum for training that i dont know of?

If theres nothing else available...kendo is pretty good...damn good at teaching discipline, distance, balance and having fast reaction times..and most importantly...it prepares the link between the nervous system...it basically gets your body used to swinging a bat of various lenghts and weights and points of balance WITH the proper hand distance between...the shoulders will pick up the move..your triceps will learn it, the wrists will adapt, the posture will improve and also the balance. Its a very good background IF, and again IF you, as a kendoka, keep an open mind, do not in any way narrow yourself..just take whats good from it. I practiced kendo...semi professional level...national and local championships in my country. Yet i remember my sensei always saying...keep in mind that kendo is not the real way to fight with a blade...keep an open mind...if the world of fencing was a painting, kendo would be just a small part of it, a flower, a rock, whatever. And we also did kenjutsu and iaido to widen the view. Anyway...i gave up japanese art..as much as i liked them..they felt like the shoe was on the wrong foot. I always had a militaristic and scientific view to the world of fencing coupled with a good degree of fitness courage and initiative...i did not view it as the energy..whatever asianway. I started to practice hema in a competitive way...not so long ago..first i transitioned to reenactment..for there was no hema concept in my country until a daring few, including me..formed a group. And i do notice that absolute beginners (who never held a stick/metal bar and have the tendency to go baseball bat with it) tend to perform worse than the ones who had previous experience with fencing..whatever it may be, yet those are easier to mold into...the correct posture and movement. The ones who had previous experience...do tend to have bad habits...but those who keep an open mind adapt with much ease. In any case, kendo and modern fencing realy heavily on scoring the hit first even in the case when the strikes are parted by lets say 0.1 seconds...and may develop a certain degree of negligence in spite of the twitch reaction times...and need to adapt exactly as Matt said, to avoid being hit, like in a chess game..attack smart, avoid a nachschlag and so on. Once again...a great video.

I remember once seeing an interview where a kendo master explained straight up that kendo, in its current form, is no longer analagous to swordfighting.

As someone who is into HEMA and started with sportfencing (rapier, florette) i must disagree. I dont know if its better than kendo but in sport fencing you usually try to stab / hit your opponent some miliseconds before he hits you. There is a 0.1 Second frame in which a hit counts - meaning if you hit your opponent at the same time as he hits you - both get 1 point. If you hit him 0.2 seconds earlier you get the point. So basicly the mindset is jumping into your enemies weapon hoping to hit him a little bit earlier. Ok i mean you do parry and evade to some degree but ultimately its about hitting your enemy a bit before he hits you - you dont aim for a perfect strike where you aint hit at all but rather hit before you are hit. I actually gave up sport fencing afer a year cause to me it seemed like completly stupid to deliberately jump into an enemy hitting him just a little bit earlier. I tried to fight "rationally" without being hit but sionce opponents go Kamikaze you dont stand much of a chance if you try to hit without being hit yourself

And kendo won't let you be left handed which is annoying.

I have been practicing kendo for almost 5 years now. I have to say, huge difference between the two. The way I see it, you, in your case, use your right hand to "swing" the sword, along with the body momentum. However, in kendo, left hand does let's say 90% of the work, along with the body momentum. Your moves are quite "rigid" (flexing the muscles on each hit), while kendo cuts are flexible. Blocking and parrying moves are also very present in kendo. Yes, you are limited some on the body movements, but aside from that I do see some similarities to HEMA in the posture. Also, please note that the main goal of kendo is cutting (slashing), not thrusting. Katanas were meant to slash and cut, much like sabers, and not thrust (as, for example, Chinese dao swords).

The bokken is actually closer but most people don't like training with them and sparring with them

I think that the reason for making kendo as simple as it is now is for two reasons 1)for the sake of safety for the kenshins or kendoka and 2) just like any other sport, to make it much easier to score, and also to make it more challenging in a way. It requires a great deal of skill to be able to hit a proper strike in kendo. In contrary to a system which allows any hit to count where if you swing your sword long and enough, and manage to get out of the way of the opposing blade, you'll score a point. I think kendo focuses more on perfection of attack and offensives, and HEMA focuses more on defense

Tried Kendo, and hated it. In reality, Jiu Jitsu and Judo helped me with longsword more than anything. We did a hilarious offense only/defense only drill once, and I pushed my way past my opponents tip, and rode his hip for 30+ seconds, pinning his sword with mine, and just mirroring his movements. I wasn't allowed to ground him (for safety concerns on the field) but basic JJ fundamentals allowed me to keep my balance well, and throw him completely off.

It seems to me that there there is a completely different mindset in Japanese and European martial arts, primarily in how you defend yourself. In Japanese martial arts it seems avoiding or dodging an attack if preferable. In HEMA it seems that directly defending yourself with something like a parry or blocking with a shield is preferable. I don't think I have ever seen a Japanese shield.

I agree that kendo is not the ideal thing to study historical japanese swordsmanship or even less, european longsword. But I have to say that HEMA still lacks on score agreement/perception by the judges. As a kendoist I sincerely believe that HEMA could be the best competitive sport which best represent real AND skilled sword fighting if all the HEMA community would join in an agreement about how the scoring should be done. Yes, on kendo a lot of weak hits are ignored by the judges until the perfect hit isn't landed. But on the other side on HEMA they stop the fight a lot because very weak blade contact with the body happens or in some cases unintentional blade contact. Judge A says that nothing happened, judge B says that the red fighter scored a hit on the head and the blue fighter scored a hit on the body and judge C says that only the blue fighter scored a hit, which make me feel weird watching a HEMA match.

intresting video but you do have some mistakes but as you said you only had a handfull of lessons. you have quit many stances in kendo. chudan (straigt forward), seigan(forward but slightly to the right), jodan (migi and hidari(left or right foot forward), nito 2 sword styl With 4 different styl of stances. and you have many techniks and Counter techniks and so on. you have not trained it so much that you know but just saying :)

I knew that Judo was very different before the WWII(it had punches, leg locks, wrist locks, spine locks etc.) but i didn't know that it happened with kendo too. Maybe it was because of american domination and the almost demolition of Kodokan.

I made one of those but smaller

There are more than two guards in kendo .______.

it sounds like Kendo is a armored martial art. I mean that they are fighting as if they are wearing armor, so most attacks would be blocked by the armor. it is interesting that we don't see too many maces come from japan.

The official positions: - Chudan no kamae: middle. - Gedan no kamae: lower position. - Waki gamae: lower also. - Jodan no kamae: highest position: - Hasso no kamae: higher position. Cheers.

I think that they should teach kids in elementary school some fencing history and do a unit in gym a lot of people think fencing is putting up fences. #FENCING AWERENESS

To jump in here, and to be a bit presumptuous, I don't believe he is claiming that Kendo is anything less than it is. As in he isn't discouraging the practise of Kendo, you can have a good time and learn a lot whilst doing it, what is being put front and center is it's relevance to historical swordsmanship. The transferable skills, like timing, distance judgment, fitness, developing an attention to speed and footwork, are useful yet can be acquired elsewhere as well. And if this sounds like I'm just reiterating Matt, it's because I think it's important to note that he is primarily addressing titular question and his critiques stem from that direction. I don't believe his intent is to assault Kendo in any way, and I doubt that many Kendo practitioners here will disagree with him.

Do they have any wooden swords that arent a wooden katana or of Japanese origin. I like more midevil things and the katana isn't really my thing. I'd want something like midevil wooden sword XD

HEMA longsword is not a single style so i doubt there is a single and absolute answer.. althought i agree that kendo and HEMA are very different concepts, but its also necesary to distinguish between HEMA and swordmanship, and i would refer to the last. IS kendo (as sport, martial art, or whatever) a good basis for swordmanship? i would said YES, but only when you truly understand what is its main concept and how does it works (which i doubt you're going to catch with 6 months or even a year of training)... kendo is a part of a whole, a part focused in a almost neat offensive dimension (as you hardly find in real sword fighting) and so based in speed and effectiveness for reaching the "one perfect hit" ideal in a forward straight collision against other offensive enemy. Kendo isn't ignorant about defensive or evasive tactics or stances it just don't see them as aspiration or desirables within its practice and gives them a secoundary role (you can see them even among regular kata practice) promoting instead this zen conception of abandoning yourself to an all-significant single hit. This is comprensible since kendo has taken its corpus from offensive styles, because kendo is also promoting a philosophical approach and because of its evolution to a more sportive form of kenjutsu. Anyway i think kendo is a great school for footwork, stances, tempo, distances, self-conciousness and balance, to mention some, on this particular dimension, undestanding swordmanship (and REAL swordfighting, wich i dont think so many people is currently practicing) as something wider. As side note, I can even say its usefull for empty hand combat.

Interesting you mention the controversial Bujinkan as the go to for traditional samurai arts. Do I detect a scheme to start a comment war and gain notoriety for your video ;)?

To answer the question in the title. Yes. Traditional kenjutsu is even better. The caveat: there are some differences in technique, but the overlaps in technique are much larger. Ox, plow, Vom tag are all nigh-identical between Lichtenauer and Itto Ryu.

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What precisely is HEMA? I've heard you guys make mention of that term before.