Could we just agree that they influenced each other. Both are pioneers of this style of rap.

This is true tho still love them both and the flow

​@masonshattuck6217 yeah u could clearly hear the earl influence in Mike even before they met and Earl was definitely influenced by him too later but he was also influenced by billy woods and mach hommy

Alchemist flow influence by them all lol

“ITS THE OTHER WAY ROUND IF U ACTUALLY READ IT”

dj blackpower is actually MIKE's producer alias, i believe it was from when he used to be a dj

I hate that people try to pin it down to any one work or artist like that. I mean, nothing personal. More of a philosophical gripe. I tend to think that the base of vaporwave is really something more nascent, the emergent product of shared experiences across a couple of generations. People were always going to make vaporwave when they did. A certain coalescence of music platforms, and loosening access to production means, would see to that. It started as an expression of the times, of certain narrative beats in the changes across recent eras, made with the best means available at the time. It's only natural. When I first heard it, I had the strangest feeling of disbelief that it hadn't been made sooner. The sound itself made no sense to me, yet I felt like it was MEANT to exist. That effect has always fascinated me. It really says a lot about the way gears of internet culture were turning at the time, that something like that was taking hold in an organic way. The convergence itself is as uncanny as the actual sound of the music. Vaporwave is arguably one of the very first 'definitive' (or at least, distinctive,) entirely memetic genre. Like meme culture itself, nothing in it is inherently owned by anyone. It's something that only exists as like... a hologram cast by interconnected groups of people creating, and people participating in a culture around it getting more involved. It is what each and every individual contribution sums to, nothing more or less. It 'belongs' to everyone it resonates with. Those with the hardware to pick up those frequencies. That is to say that for me, it's not a matter of who did it first. I think the whole concept itself is too free to be owned. "Developing art" is very apropos. I believe the concepts that make vaporwave work have the potential to carry across many different shifts in culture. What it means to people, and what things evoke those feelings change, as does the process... until an invisible inflection point is crossed where you look back and realize it doesn't make sense to even call it vaporwave anymore. I guess I'm just not a fan of the internet's fixation with labeling everything and playing who's who constantly. The map is not the territory, and all of that. It doesn't need to be anything, doesn't need to be defined by any one person. Part of what made it able to be what it is, and blossom into the highly diverse and dynamic wonder it has become, was the product of a chaotic feedback loop, something that escaped being pinned down to any sort of essence by many people because of how it would morph under the interpretations of huge waves of contributors introducing new elements... recontextualizing, post-recontextualizing, post-post-recontextualizing, so on. It can be sort of a baffling thing, with a charming, if not starkly-uncanny mystique. I think that's a major strength it's always had, and a major part of its draw as a creative avenue. You can mold it to bring all manner of things into the realm of the uncanny. And by committing to more rigid ways of placing the narrative, I think we diminish that strength. Vaporwave kind of seeps into the cracks of different cultures, it's a shapeshifter. I think the moment it loses that power, it dies. If it lives long enough, it may even have to turn its corrosive powers on its own former self! I think the best we've gotten could never have been if not for vaporwave's interpretive nature. I should also mention... I don't think that we should forget any of these artists. They're all great artists, man! But vaporwave as a whole is not what it is because of them. It's not OF them. They're just artists who did it really well then, made the right statements for the time. Honestly, man... it grew and changed so much, so very quickly not long after that stuff came out. It became not only an entirely different thing, but many entirely different things. Fixating on the old greats too much takes away from the appreciation of the growth that happened. That particular growth, and what powered it, is what makes vaporwave what it is.

@@differentbutsimilar7893 Well as someone who has no interest in 98% of the vaporwave that's out there (actually I almost never listen to the vapor meta genre outside of a few outliers), I certainly respect your thoughts on the matter. I don't disagree that vaporwave is very concept heavy, but from the outside looking in the genre seems to mostly be held together by a certain way of doing sampling or production and tapping into emotions like nostalgia or intrigue. That alone is a fairly vague notion that leads to diverse interpretations, so I'm not trying to say that there isn't a voice in vaporwave, rather that it blew up because the concept is quite appealing and there are multiple ways to tap into it. I think my consideration on it being a "developing" art is stems from the fact that many people overly focus on some of the more well known examples and genres because of the kind of nostalgia the internet is primed to tap into, and as a result there are many artist who see success primarily or exactly for that reason and there should be more artists to diversify and hybridize the genre. Devon Hendryx is an example of doing that in a way that feels refreshing (even if the music was from 2013 or so), and I'm sure there are many others, but not everyone in a genre can be a stand out. To put my own two cents in, the identity of "everyone" that many people attribute to vaporwave as a quickly developing internet-specific genre with highly specialized subgenres and several "greats" that are put on pedestals is not a phenomena specific to vaporwave. It's a symptom of several obsessions and human yearnings that led to hyper-analysis. Heavy metal and rock genres have had a lot of similar micro-analyzing that get extremely hyper specific to the point I only really analyze songs in terms of a dozen general sub-genres for each (and that's saying a lot considering my favorite general genre is rock music). Maybe it's just being disillusioned after spending a lot of time on the internet observing reactions to music generally and in certain genres more than others but the cultural morphing and tribalism towards certain "defining" artists are pretty much internet wide. Just to list the spaces I've personally spent more time in; RYM has it, the Vocaloid/voice synthesizer fandom has it, specific artist fandoms have it (Radiohead and Death Grips probably being the most infamous examples), I've even seen some of that within the noise music space. Vaporwave has a lot more of it I feel because it's a primarily "online" genre in that it's mainly defined by internet space (similar to the Vocaloid fandom actually), but it's the same ride on a different horse at the end of the day. My primary exposure to vaporwave is through KZfaq video essays and occasionally the curious click on Bandcamp, so my understanding of the overall fanbase is anecdotal, but there is also a pattern that's extremely social in nature.

@@quantumpassport3573 I wasn't aware of those details, that is pretty interesting. Admittedly I like the vaporwave aesthetic, but when it comes to the music I'm just not really into the fact a lot of vaporwave generally is either very ambient or samples elevator music. I'm old enough that I do remember classmates obsessing about Macintosh Plus in schools, but even in 2015 or so it never really did anything for me (someone recommended it to me in high school and I didn't make it past the first minute). It's very much a "me" thing, but yeah I did notice that in the way people discuss vaporwave in that there is quite a bit of focus on physical releases and how things look as much or more than they sound.

​@@differentbutsimilar7893who order yappacino 🤣

@@rymmusicfan713 If you don't like the more ambient style of vaporwave, ESPRIT 空想 might be for you. Dude basically played his own instruments, sampled himself, and created something new. If you've heard it before and don't like it then I understand. Just giving that one out there. I also think FM Skyline and Gore are good offshoots from the forms of vaporwave you say you don't like.

Loved Disco!

I would discourage such a thing (with any sort of media), I personally find it odd people look at reviews or analyses of something that will obviously influence their thoughts before giving said thing a fair shake (whether it is worse or better to them than said review). Obviously this is largely irrelevant to the actual video, but I do want to understand why it is commonplace to do this and not give the art a go first.

I get your point which is valid, but as Im sure you know expanding your taste (in this case music) sometimes just happens by accident when you stumble upon an artist, album, song, ect, or when you go looking for new stuff to listen to in the streaming services apps or other ways. My experience was in a way that I was just scrolling thru youtube and I saw the review and I just listened to the review, and after that I was mostly inspired to go listen to the album. And I guess overall, as long as you appreciate a piece of art, and respect it and hold it valuable, it doesn’t necessarily matter how you approach it . @@monfernova

I agree ​@@monfernova digesting it yourself before is way better cuz at that point you understand the review more rather than letting a review shape your view before you digest anything

Check out my spam channel. I Have 2 videos on him.

With bars of his you gotta say them for a lifetime to reap the rewards

Idk If you could call it vaporwave really. It's really good not really vaporwave though but it's hypnagogic

They're like little sound vignettes

@SICRECORDS correct. i always said Screw did it first.

Could argue Daniel Lopatin invented it with Eccojams under the Chuck Persons alias

But Screw is probs the best person to point to I agreee

Wow you did it already!!! gotta check that out!

I did!

I wouldn’t say Earl got the flow from Mike. He was just reinspired post-Solace by Billy Woods and MILE and he leaned heavier into his own lane (that MIKE himself was inspired by) and further from just the Eminem and DOOM comparisons. It is a feedback loop between him and Earl right now.

@@otterdonnelly9959yeah very much what you said. they we’re working together a lot mid to late 2010’s both influencing each other. Now they are progressing that same style together. I think they linked through their mutual collaborator Wiki. Earl was very into Wiki and Ratking. And Wiki was featured on MIKE’s first project May God Bless you hustle. Wiki just did a whole album with the guy to produced that song, Tony Seltzer.

Earl featured Wiki on I don’t like shit I don’t go outside. Earl been tapped in to the underground NY scene for a while

@@davey_blue2739 correct plus the Wiki x Navy Blue connection and Wik+MIKE making songs with Alchemist now

How y’all not hearing what he saying ? Lol just put your headphones on and clean out y’all ears .

@@rolodexpropaganda I'll try the ear cleaning

The chair. But I love the tourist posters as well.

avaa

tired of all the over analyzing shi like just listen to the music bro lmao

You think so? I think this is one of his best projects

I agree, MIKE's rapping was better overall & Wiki killed it too over some dope Alchemist beats.

Absolutely not. Alchemist has been phoning it in since Haram. Dime a dozen beats. This album is far more creative.

blud is deaf

That’s so cap lol.