For the line between Alain and Josef in regards to his mother, it isn't delivered in an accusatory fashion, and that makes all the difference. He's genuinely questioning the situation after his mother left and Josef is to secret him away. Anything out of context can seem vastly different.

Speaking of Vanillaware, last week I was playing Sentinel 13: Aegis Rim for the first time and near the end I thought how cool would be to bring it to this podcast, the narrative structure is so ambitious that is worth talking an hour or two, I think.

52:07 About the line of alain "accusing" josef for the dub the actor for young alain doesn't read that line in an accusatory manner but in a confused, sad manner.the kid is confused about not understanding what is happening to at that time.

I think there should be a space for these kinds of conversations about localisation accuracy vs taking liberties to better convey intent (for instance, The Odyssey has been translated multiple times in the name of striking a balance between being more technically accurate and better preserving the more poetic nature of the untranslated text). For me, this particular conversation starts to lose me when the critics: A. Project motivation or intent onto people they don't know (I'm thinking particularly of that one person you highlighted saying "they just want to censor things they hate", which feeds into the worst parts of games discourse) B. Make assumptions about the process and assume that there was no back and forth between the Japanese team and the writers. C. Operate under the blanket assumption that more accurate is inherently better when, as you pointed out, there are times when something will get changed to better convey the meaning to an intended audience. A good example of this is an interview with the English translator for The Silver Case, where specific pop culture references to Japanese pro wrestlers and Tokusatsu series were adapted into references to American pro wrestlers and superheroes because that would convey the same intent to a Western audience.

I have a friend who I think will love this game, but I know he'll be put off by the name... I'm just going to tell him it's called "Unilord Overcorn".

The ‘what’s true about the morning sun?’ killed me when I saw it on twitter-- it was the moment I said: ‘yeah, i dont *ever* need to take this person seriously.’

The comment about how the language is shaped by the things around you (religion, animals…) reminded me of something I came across while learning German. A lot of our analogies nowadays involve “gas”, “energy”, “power up”, “oil”… because of Industrial Revolution. The same way we also started incorporating software/computer lingo to day to day things. Such as “updating”, “downloading”, “connecting” and “processing” becoming way more prevalent.

44:20 weeks before this thread, there was a big uproar over anime localizers that were openly declaring the source material bad. Turning a haughty dragon lady who thinks humans are beneath them, into someone that was "tired of patriarchy demands" of her fashion for instance.

36:30 playing a little devil's advocate here, and I'm not sure you will address it later in the video, but recently, in the anime side of localization, there has been some recent reveals regarding translators taking liberties over their work without the consent of the original autor; as in not only translating, but "fixing" the script to make it "better", in their opinion. i suspect the accusations comes from that perspective, not so much from the videogame industry current standards

please link Matsuno's response if you could! id love to hear the conversation around his thoughts.

Fun Fact: Alexander O'Smith quote tweeted that same tweet from Matsuno.

Always really nice insights from these podcasts! I especially appreciate the perspective on language from Casen. I used to take a more "hardline purist" stance on localization, but I've since softened a lot. In principle, "staying true to the director's vision" seems like the obvious line of thinking, but there's nuance to language... in fact, language IS nuance. Looking into Alexander O. Smith's work on Vagrant Story really got the wheels turning for me. It's such a clear case where abiding by this 1:1 thinking would have been detrimental to the final product. Could it have literally been more accurate? Sure. Would it have been *truer* to the director's vision? That's a much more complicated question. There are cases where more of a puritanical outlook on localization may be warranted, but not to the extent that we write off translation as an art form in itself.

Hi! I'm a former translator for Korean to English games. I will say that for people who are first jumping into a new language, I can definitely see the purist perspective and why people want the original source to be preserved as much as possible. I watch K Dramas with English subs on and it irks me every time a translation is completely different from the original source language. That said, if you develop enough mastery over a language to actually attempt translating it, you'll find that there are many cases where literal one-to-one translations will make no sense to the English viewer. I saw this when reviewing translations from beginner translators where they literally translated everything one-to-one, and the sentence structure is wonky, and the idioms don't smoothly carry the same meaning, and for lack of a better expression, it just feels extremely clunky, hodgepodge and messy. Good translations have an artistic element to them. It's as much "interpretation" as it is "translation". And while that might seem criminal for a translator to try to infer what the writer was trying to convey, it's unavoidable if you want a story that makes sense in the target language. Of course, in-house translations have a leg up because you can consult the developers on intent to ensure you're crossing your t's and dotting your i's. But you can't consult them on every tiny nuance, so some degree of interpretation will be necessary, and in fact, good translators are able to take the source text and quickly convert that text into what an English interpretation would look like so it reads well to an English-speaking audience.

I agreed that the best point in there was probably the one where they do seem to change the tone of Alain asking Josef to help his mom, but then if you listen with the English VA Alain sounds more hurt/confused than angry/demanding. So it fits after all. Same with the Scarlett line. She obviously IS shaken up, she's just putting on a brave face for Alain.

I'm convinced they meant the name as Unicorn Ogre-Lord. The amount of Ogre Battle in there is beautiful. 100% agreed on the translation, I think I posted a thing on there about how much value we got when something like early Pokemon did the exact same thing. Just knowing a word like "aplomb" changed a lot by itself.

I agree that the translation is cool and that it really suits the game. With translation work you always have to keep the audience in mind whilst also balancing authorial intent etc. In English whenever you have a setting like this it is often the norm that the language gets all "medievalified". It fits the genre and is instantly recognizable to the audience. There was a lot of mention of Shakespeare and King James in this episodes but I think it is important to remember that these people lived in the early modern period. Shakespeare did most of his writing around 1600 which is already a 100 or so years removed from anything we would call medieval. The English language itself has completely changed during the last 1500 or so years as well. Beowulf was mentioned but its quite the challenge to pick up an Old English version of Beowulf and just start reading. The same applies to Middle English, it's certainly easier to pick up The Canterbury Tales than Beowulf but it is a far cry from an easy read. Another thing to keep in mind is that medieval fictional texts, like The Canterbury Tales, were written with the idea that someone was going to read them out loud, most people being illiterate and silent reading often an oddity. And they were written with a lot of alliteration, some rhymes being so common that one expects life to be followed by wife. So the writing style probably doesn't accurately reflect the way people spoke. So whilst the language in games like Unicorn Overlord fit the setting to our modern sensibilities it is not actually truly medieval. Instead what we get is a look at the medieval period through a Shakespearean lens. And even that is adapted even further still, shakespeare's Early Modern English translated into a more accessible: "This is what people expect from a fantasy game in 2024 English". Does it sound good and cool? It certainly does. Is it a good reflection of how people spoke/wrote in the medieval period, probably not so much.

I think the best takeaway I can encapsulate upon evaluation of my own perspective on this broader subject: You can be on both sides of this argument simultaneously, and that's probably the best place to be. Not from a fear of absolutes, or for the sake of hedging your bets, though flexibility in opinion is always a nice benefit. Dialogue is the conduit for engaging players with your story. As much as I love older games for their near complete lack of localization (i.e. Haschel in Legend of Dragoon holding a dying former student in his arms, saying "Stop talking. It makes you die.") the comically stilted English didn't always lend the clearly intended tone, so mere translation has never been enough and never will be. That's an absolute I feel comfortable stating. The provided examples you went through are entire worlds away from being close to egregious. It speaks to the original poster's pedantry and clear lack of experience with how translation/localization is accomplished. (Which you both did an excellent job relating.) It's plain this flowery prose did very little for them, which is a shame. Personally, forays into "dusty English" (and metaphor generally) are enriching, and I appreciate the time and effort you both spent talking about this subject.

love the discussion, love the show. I'm an indie dev who had a game published and we in fact hired a localization firm to localize to 7 languages. During the localization process the localizers maintained a spreadsheet with questions and discussion pertaining to any passage of dialog they needed insight with. We'd often discuss changes with individual localizers about how to best adapt something to a specific language, with that particular localizer obviously guiding us on what something means or how something will come across to natives of their language, and suggesting tweaks or substitutions that would be suitable. I can't imagine the meaning of the game being largely changed by localizers without the developer knowing

I also feel like the voice direction and the character acting comes into this. when she says "just a little shaken, that's all." She's literally shaken to her knees and her voice is quivvering. It's obvious she's more than just shaken. She's just trying to put on a brave face with her words. But the fact she's scared is clearly conveted.. A lotta hay made out of nothing.

Personally, as someone whose english is a second language whose english was learned through videogames (im from brazil. Oi Mike! Fico feliz que esteja aprendendo portugues!). The issue i particularly have with the lofalizatiom is that i started to learn japanese through listening and reading the subtitles in anime. (And asking some japanese speaker friends). I'm not fluent in Japanese, but i've reached a point where I can understand enough to tell when what I'm reading and what i'm hearing aren't even CLOSE to being the same. It was particularly bothersome in Fire Emblem Engage. Where it wasnt just a matter of using flowery language, but completely changing what conversations were even about.

"Only a little shaken, that's all." I don't think that means she wasn't as scared as the Japanese stated, just maybe she's downplaying it more. I don't know much about Scarlet, but maybe she's a proud character or feels like she needs to hold her emotions in check or perhaps just doesn't want the people around her to worry. How many people have said "I'm fine" after a scary experience when they clearly weren't? I feel like the translation more implies the same instead of stating it outright.

I agree that the translation for Unicorn Overlord seems fine from what I'm seeing. However, I can't say that translations/localizations are in the best spot right now with the recent drama around anime localizations. Better than it was for certain back in the 3DS and earlier era, but still enough there to be concerned about.

Jesuit missonaries in Japan in XVI century where trying to explain Christian doctrine using Amida Buddism. It became quite an interestig mix.

Ok thank you, this video gave me peace of mind, there are MANY instances of localizers openly and publicly bragging about changing the script into something completely different to fit their own political ideas or just because they think the original is "bad", but i´m glad Unicorn Overlord did not fall victim to one of those, all they did was spice it up a little while keeping the same meaning and tone intact which is fine imo. I genuinely enjoyed the localization because i love this kind of "flowery" language so i´m glad it was a good-faith translation for once instead of the usual hatred towards the Japanese.

Japanese titles and company names are interesting. In America we name things so that the meaning of the name is obvious most of the time, but in Japan it's really common that people name things based upon an emotional or referential title only known to the person who came up with it. They do this with kanji as well, so I think it with English is just an evolution of that.

Im starting to think the Skies of Arcadia restrospective is never going to come :(

Was soo excited for this game until I heard about the translation issues and coming from the anime side, it pissed me off. Knowing now that it isnt that but just speaking from a different time period, totally relieved. Will still get the game. Thanks for the video clearing this up.

Great discussion guys - I'm in the process of learning Spanish and a little Portuguese so that short moment in between talking about the two languages' differences was a nice practical reminder haha

This game gives off Mattsuno/Dragon Force vibes and resonant arc community is grateful for it

Fico feliz de saber que você está aprendendo português Mike, Muito maneiro de saber que vocês são tão versados em varias linguas

This channel is a goldmine.

Listened to the podcast and had to jump onto youtube to add my 2 cents. If we are concerned about authorial intent when it comes to the dialog I encourage everyone to look back at the first western released game by Vanillaware: Odin Sphere. The dialog in the game is very flowery and I would personally describe it as almost Shakespearean. A great example about how much they care about the English dialog can be seen in the games remake Leifthrasir, where most of the dialog was kept, but a few key lines were rerecorded to make them sound better in context. Whoever does the localization for Vanillaware clearly understands the intent of the author. Another good example, to as lesser extent, is the game Dragon's Crown where there is a very well spoken narrator throughout the game. This sort of language is the company's bread and butter. I would also point to their most recent game: 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim. Unlike all their other works the characters are kids living in the 80s, and they sound like normal kids, like they should. I believe this is more evidence to prove that the localization team (assuming they are the same people) understand the intent. Lastly I think you should look at the game Muramasa: the Demon Blade, as it is their only western release that never got English voice over. And I think that was intentional. The game is steeped in feudal Japanese imagery and Shinto mythology, it makes sense that the characters would speak in Japanese if the people in charge of the localization cared about that sort of thing. Now I don't know the language but I wouldn't be surprised if the dialog in that game was more flowery or old timey in Japanese. Anyway the point I want to make is that, as a huge Vanillaware fan, I think Unicorn Overlord has the perfect dialog style and it fits with the legacy of the company perfectly. Also check out these other games, they are all fantastic.

Just wanted to add a note about Edo period Japanese. You're right that most Japanese people aren't using that language anymore, but oddly enough, games are one of the single remaining avenues that continue to use a lite version of it (when applicable) and thus gamers might be one of the most comfortable groups for introducing this kind of language.

Unicorn Overlord isn't an ideal name, but it is unique enough i never forgot it!

Thank you so much for this video. The level of the discourse--if I'm being polite--around Unicorn Overlord's localization has been, frankly, maddening. Especially in light of how good the game is, and the level of care and craft Vanillaware put into it. At the worst, I've seen people arguing to pirate the game in anticipation of a "more accurate" fan translation, which wounds me given how relatively small Vanillaware is as a company, and by God they deserve every dollar they can for keeping the art in video games alive! Regardless, a levelheaded voice like this is much needed, and definitely much appreciated. Keep up the good work.

Man I was on the fence about this one but watching this and seeing how the translation is done I'm actually going to pick this up now. Thank you guys.

Some of the things with bad localization that irk me are when they 'accidentally' foreshadow things that aren't actually where things are going or fail to set up payoffs that DO happen. That and using different proper nouns for the same thing or all the different ways they end up being vague or confusing when they should be drawing you in.

A funny thing that happens in Brazilian localization sometimes(usually in comedy movies) is that when the source material is largely american and a stereotipically british guy with a heavy accent shows up, he generally is dubbed with a portuguese accent, and the other characters with the brazilian one. Also come to Brazil, Mike.

Parabéns por aprender português, Mike. Espero que visitas Portugal um dia no futuro; é um país mesmo bonito. My take on localization has always been that as long as the original tone, intent, and meaning of the Japanese script is kept intact, I'm okay with them taking a bit of creative license. It's when the localizers (and this includes the bosses/supervisors/etc., not just the people directly working on the script) completely change the meaning of the script that I start to have a problem. Something like Unicorn Overlord here seems mostly acceptable to me, especially since the changes being made are in service to the setting; I had actually wondered upon seeing the comparisons if there was a reason why the game used such modern, straightforward Japanese in its original script, and you guys answered that question for me in this video; I never knew that older forms of Japanese were basically incomprehensible to most native Japanese speakers today, unlike older forms of English that are still widely understood by modern English speakers, if a little obscure. Furthermore, I much prefer the script of Unicorn Overlord being adapted into an old medieval English style (which like I said is done in service to the setting) than to have it written in 2020s modern English and peppered with Zoomer-speak throughout. My only issues as it stands is with the alterations made to certain characters, but I'll reserve my judgement on that for when I actually hear the dub for myself. With that, in light of the fact that you guys are talking about a Vanilla Ware game, I leave you with my usual elevator pitch for 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim: As much of a pain as it might be to set up due how non-linear it is, would you guys consider doing a podcast on 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim in the future? It is an absolutely insane sci-fi story, one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing. It pays homage to all of the classic sci-fi stories, in particular the ones of the 80s, while managing to masterfully tie them all together in an original story with one jaw-dropping plot twist after another. It is a masterclass in non-linear storytelling, and I'd really like to see you guys break down the plot and storytelling techniques used in the game, for two reasons in particular. 1. There are seriously not enough videos out there analyzing this very niche and relatively unknown game. 2. Much like with Xenogears, you only get to experience this game's mind-screwy rollercoaster of a plot for the first time once, then all you can do is enjoy watching other people experience it for the first time. Again, might be a bit of a pain to plan out because of how non-linear it is, but I think this game truly deserves the State of the Arc treatment.

I think the biggest difference that will always be present between these translations is that the politeness level + word choice completely obliterates any kind of direct translation from Japanese -> English. In any sentence that uses てめぇ (temee) for example, it would be disingenuous to translate as "You" when the connotation carried by the rudeness-level of that word is more like "You bastard." Especially considering the setting that the creators chose for the game, I think it would be even more unnatural to use Ashikaga-Shogunate era (roughly same time period) Japanese to somehow "convey medieval thought" when for a Japanese speaker that cultural history / memory simply doesn't carry the same historical context. It's a great game, great translation, and I wish these pedants would settle down a little.

Japanese phrases things softer and in questions and less direct as a rule, when the actual _intention_ is to be accusatory. This is at the very essence of their language and culture, where the former and latter reinforce each other.

52:17 I can elaborate a bit of this line of young Alain. He used てくれ instead of てください or てくれないか at the end of his dialogue which is a rather abrupt imperative for asking someone to do something for you, compared to the latter two. In the tweet translation "you should lend your strength to my mother", it failed to convey this little imperative nuance.

I enjoyed the small discussion on grammatical gender, but I'd just like to clarify one thing as I study Linguistics as my major in University. Grammatical gender is a noun class system, many languages use different ways to classify nouns into different groups sometimes based on conjugation, animacy or in the case of many Indo-European languages Gender. However, grammatical gender as a concept is distinct from the concept of social or biological gender. As such, grammatical gender doesn't necessarily correlate with words that we may socially consider to be masculine or feminine, as it was a system that was created a long time ago in the language to classify nouns based on grammatical features. Many gender systems actually have a two or three way distinction, as in German (masculine, feminine and neuter) versus French (masculine and feminine). Suffice it to say, there has been some research on whether the grammatical gender has an effect on social gender attribution to words or concepts. There are some studies that show this to be the case, but there are also many cases in these studies that show outlier cases. This is just my knowledge of the literature that I've seen on the subject in class and in papers. Either way great video and I was glad I could finally connect some of my knowledge of linguistics in real life! Thank you again and keep up the great work!

One reason that the Twitter guy may have been so touchy about the translation is that I've heard anime subs have been having weird modern political stuff inserted in strange places. Like weird comments about patriarchy, etc. So he might be jumping at shadows because of it. Pure speculation on my part. Edit: this was mentioned right after I posted lol

Great Topic gents. Really love these one-off episodes. I tend to look at games with "strange titles" as just something that I don't have context of.....because I havent played the game yet. In some cases, the title could be made clear after we play the game. The need for all details/understanding of a game and all of its parts BEFORE it is released...I wont say its pointless, but rather, I don't get it.

I love these types of episodes. Keep them coming!

Perfect listening material for me while I agonisingly push a mine cart at a snail's pace in 7 Rebirth

As long as localization is done in good faith, it's great. There has been a recent kerfuffle where bad actors have been injecting their social/political opinions into the media they localize. We could do without that sort of localization.

I already thought the localization was good, but the discussion on the historical context of language and religion actually made me appreciate it way more. It seems like whoever translated it put in a lot more work and effort than you'd expect from a typical translation. This is one of the best discussions on this topic I've seen.

How dare Atlus West localize "Yakisoba Angel" instead of "Yakisoba's Anata"? Unforgivable!

The supposed translations here aren't even perfect. For example, at 41:35 In the bottom left, "ああ・・・たしかにそうだな" he translates it as "Hm... It does feel that way", but a word for word translation would be more like "Ah... That's certainly true"

Very interesting, I think you have a lot of good arguments here. Nice to hear you give credit to the person you’re making counter points to as well, good nuance. Also, however technically questionable the Twd Woosly translation of FFVI bay be, I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s MY Final Fantasy (III) and I love the dialogue ❤️

I have a soft spot for those 90s RPG translations made on a budget. I don't have the merits or, frankly, the knowledge to determine if they were objectively good or bad, but they were definitely iconic! For example, one of my favorite lines in Final Fantasy VI is, "My life is a chip in your pile." The Japanese phrasing directly translates into a very sterile and sort of bland statement: "I'll treat my life as a chip and wager it on you." The English translation just sounds way more poetic, and it flows much better. Even when I first played it, when I didn't really know what most of the language even meant, I just always liked the sound of that line. Maybe it's related to what you guys were talking about in the Jurassic Park podcast, how dialogue can be written not to sound natural and compelling but to sell a certain emotion or immersion.

Absolutely LOVE this podcast! The localization is the very reason I pre-ordered the monarch edition! And you guys just proved what an absolute clown the twitter person is.

As a 25 year old who has better media literacy than the average Joe, I’m very ashamed to I’ve only barely been able to understand Shakespeare. American education system decided I should read books about 9/11 and ‘Tuesdays with Morrie’😒

I've had countless arguments on this topic. I'm a Japanese translator myself (I mostly work on machinery and assembly line manuals/documents) and even I have to take certain "creative liberties" to do my job properly. It's a bit difficult to explain but Japanese people as a whole tend to be more visually oriented, they prefer information with diagrams, pictures and the text is usually relegated to concise blocks of information, often resembling lines of code. So when I translate to English I have to do it in a way that grabs attention, sort of like telling a story because otherwise whoever is reading it will get lost following the procedure or it would just not make any sense if I were to do a literal translation. You can sort of see these similarities on the creative side of things. Straight Japanese comes off as dry and lifeless and a lot of what they say is tied to context. A complaint that I often hear from my Japanese friends is that they think that certain western games like Hades and modern God of War are "too wordy" despite these games not being close to what we consider text heavy like Planescape Torment or other classic CRPGs. So I can see a certain need to make the end product readable especially if it comes from the executive Japanese side and the English publisher side where both sides have enough experience and understand both languages enough to drive the decision to make these big changes.

When they said they weren't gonna say the guy's @ I thought, "oh, how respectful of them", and then as they went on I realized they were just trying to help keep this dude from getting completely dunked on 💀

Respect for your knowledge of the Romance Languages. The gendered noun issue is tricky for even native speakers at times.

Does anyone have insight into exactly what changes between difficulty settings? Because if it's lazy stuff like you deal less damage and they deal more I won't bother. But if it just stuff that makes you use the system more cleverly/increased tactics/more clever AI then i'll go for the hardest one.

This was a great conversation and I appreciate Casen defending how people spoke back in the day. Its beautiful and requires contempltion at times. I help University students understand the Bible so this was a really valuable convetsation in helping people understand language.

I've been really waiting for your thoughts on this matter because your series on Final Fantasy Tactics got me into playing the War of the Lions translation as my first introduction to Tactics, at around the same time I was playing FFXIV and the Return to Ivalice raid story. The use of language in both of these really opened my eyes as to what a unique position we are in at this time with Japan putting out so much more fantasy and European-flavored material. I wish more stories would utilize this kind of prose and language. I do also find it interesting how vitriolic both sides can be on this issue, because I know that I would have gotten much more involved with the "keep it exactly the same" crowd only a few years ago, but have found myself looping around to seeing the merits of the other side and that both have points. I think the issue is that there have been very poor examples in both video games and anime, Fire Emblem Fates being the go-to example for removing quite a bit of dialogue for some characters. As well as things like the Kobayashi Dragon Maid dub taking liberties with the source. However I do think people are blind-firing a lot of the time, and have caught really good works that should instead be praised in their crosshairs. I just feel like they can be overly enthusiastic and zealous, to the point where it can make their arguments fall apart, such as the thread on display attempting to showcase how "abhorrent" this is.

I completed the demo, a tad over 8hrs, and thought it was fine. Heading straight to the nearest brick and mortar game retailer immediately after work on March 8th! ❤️🦄⚔️🏹😃🎮

When I first heard the title "Unicorn Overlord" I was expecting some kinde of meme-game. I'm glad, I was wrong!

"There is a freaking cross on his shield!" Excellent! loved it! I am a lot more blunt in this matter maybe because my sibling is a translator and we have constant discussions about this kind of things. This person is just like the armchair psychologist. Have no idea what translation and localization is. Liking or not liking is a personal preference. But saying it is not accurate is just plain wrong. And worse! They think the translator have any saying it it? Any decision power AT ALL? They have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how a translation / localization workflow work! They We know bad translations: How many episodes of FFT you did? (and yes, I remember the reasons)

I love these kinds of episodes. Keep it up, gents! Just to clear up a misconception about Christianity not succeeding in Japan... I've been watching a fair amount of Japanese history videos on KZfaq (not an expert, by the way), and it seems that Christianity -- Catholicism in general, was actually gaining a strong presence in Japan. It wasn't until the Shoguns under Tokugawa saw Christianity as a threat to their rule. It's what gave rise to the term "Hidden Christians" in Japan. In fact, there are still some "Hidden Christians" to this day, carrying on their ancestors' legacy of belief. On the topic of localization, I am more in favor of the poetic prose and/or changes as long as it keeps the spirit of the original language. When the translation becomes "changes made to translation to suit modern audiences," that's when I'll be against it.

As someone that translates creepy pastas from eng to esp, You really at times have to realize that you need to do localizations instead of direct word for word translations. While im SURE there are examples where the adapters are pushing an agenda in a way its impossible not to see and using language that will become dated in 3 years tops. In the case of Unicorn Overlord? come on man dont be disingenuous, sense has fled your reach and now you must engage in such ill tongued accusations that are bereft of merit... stop picking thyne nitts

A great martial arts philosopher, Jeffrey Jarrett, sums up this topic perfectly "Creative is subjective"

I wonder if SaGa Frontier 2 had the issue of being too literal? I dropped it fairly on because the translation felt way too economical and the characters came across as really bland. Of course that could also just be the way that the Frontier games are

I still shake my head at the fact that they named that game Triangle Strategy... I mean it's my opinion but that sounds so robotic. It's like those anime shows that just have a plot summary statement as their title. I know why historically they got there but I'll just hard pass on all that. Give me some artistry. Some poetry. Some something to hook me. Say what you want about the localization here but I can appreciate it's being done with a sensibility.

I've played some games with "accurate" translations that were riddled with very strange wording and were straight-up boring to read through... and yet that's the kind of translation the subject of this episode seems to want. I'm 100% on board with the stance that as long as a translation is conveying the same information as the source in a way that makes the new audience understand it, it is a good localization.

This episode reminded me of the ff14 localization and the work they do in CBU3! And im sure people have issues with the work they do in that long game 😂😂

I may be incorrect but I'm thinking that the localization was handled by 8-4. If so or even if it was handled in house or by another team I absolutely love what I've played and seen so far. More fantastic work from a masterful team(s). 😊

This is the second best demo I've ever played.

2 days till release!!!

In regards to gender nuances in diferent languages, sometimes it get's even trickier in the "same" language because of cultural/national factors. In portuguese from Portugal, Playstation is refered as feminine, and brazilian portuguese as masculine, despite the fact they're both using an english word to describe a particular console (so, in fact, it is the word console that as that gender duality). Yup, good luck with that Portuguese Mike!

My 2 cents - I consider intent and sentiment to be the broad strokes of writing. Both of these were touched on here, but to add a little I'd look deeper at the "That was Scary" line. The intent is let us know Scarlett is afraid - and whatever else comes with that (inexperienced, immature etc...) The SENTIMENT is the fundemntal feeling to convey, which IS done in both lines. Whether she is "a little scared" or "really scared" doesn't matter all that much as long as we understand that sentiment. A radical example would be the original stating "that was scary" going to "well, that wasn't fun" of course that's unlikely, but humour me. That line COMPLETELY misses the mark and would lead us to believe her to be much more confident. I'll leave it there though. And to end on a high note - that foal and sun quote had me creasing big time!

Amazing talk, I strongly prefer the English translation. Must buy for sure.

Interesting to listen to. I used to want pure translations when I was younger and believed that Japanese media was perfect and in some ways "superior" (probably all the bad dubs and translations of the 80s/90s), but now that I am older and have consumed more, I see how often ideas get lost when directly translated. You could hear the same exact phrase in Japanese ten different times in a show, and have it translated to something different in English. Sometimes I am amazed at how a translator has been able to pick up so much complexity from the tone of the characters or the situation. A good example is "so desu ne" (そうですね). A translator would be forced to change the English to fit the situation as there are just too many ways that phrase gets used in Japanese. I always feel that official translations read much better than fan translations (which tend to be more direct). I've recently started reading some translated Japanese novels and light novels, and I find the writing style to be incredibly blunt and sometimes even gives off the feeling of being too easy to read (makes it feel like it is for kids). While this person is assuming the English was changed to "sound smarter" maybe it is more that English readers are unaccustomed to brief and direct literature and subconsciously find it to sound immature. Therefore to make the content feel more mature and serious, it needs to have complexity added to it. This doesn't mean the content is immature, just that culturally we have different writing styles. (I think your point about poetry in the two languages really highlights this well.)

Que legal que está aprendendo português Mike! Saudações de um fã do Brasil!

I don't know how much of a me problem this is but I find strictly literal JP -> EN translations hard to follow, stilted and weird in general. I often think, even with some of the examples you showed how "nobody speaks like this" or "that's a strange way of saying that". And this is the reason why I'm put off by a lot of Japanese media aimed at teenagers. So from the point of view of someone that grew out of anime and otaku culture after middle school I quite appreciate it when the characters speak like regular people, even if these people come from an 18th century book.

Translation is an art. Sometimes art is fantastic and additive to the product. Sometimes art is garbage that someone just pushes out to get it done. Can’t wait to find out where this lands.

I like the 'Unicorn Overlord' name, for me it's kind of like 'The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog'. It inspires awe and raises so many questions.

Watched this yesterday, great content, congrats, will try to chech more of your videos. Perhaps for the analysis of some tweets like the replies to Yasumi Matsuno, it's good to keep in mind that most social media posts are impulsive and not really thought about, and just maybe, you're overanalyzing those, but that's totally fine, this was a great episode.

I don't have any skin in the game here (I'm fluent enough in Japanese to read a novel or explain Hegel; never play the English localizations), but I think translating the Japanese very closely into English woudn't have produced a very positive effect. The Japanese writing is basically fine, fairly perfunctory and formulaic. The characters' personalities aren't especially differentiated in their speech patterns. There's little of the flair of a Hideo Kojima or Yuji Horii, and, even if there were, you wouldn't be able to transplant that directly into English. The original complainant's own translations were more 'accurate' to the words, but there was a further layer of nuance that they failed to communicate (the use of the formal suffering-passive voice in the first example, the masculine exclamation marker 'zo' at the end of "I leave it to you", the familiar/vulgar use of the pronoun 'o-mae' in one of the other exchanges etc).You will never, ever capture the entire sense of the Japanese script, so you may as well make it its own thing. I don't personally like the faux "Shakespearian" type English scripts because it always seems tin-eared and inauthentic, but it seems like a valid route to take to me. I thought FFXVI's totally brilliant localization solved the problem better by leaning into England's regional speech patterns - more games should do that instead.

I seem to remember a video by Casen where he gave tips on learning languages. Is that still up?

Josef is a fetching paladin.

As someone admittedly on the more critical side of the recent debate regarding localization (particularly of Japanese media), I have to admit that I frequently have to explain to people how unreasonable it is to expect a 100% "direct" translation. Language simply doesn't work that way, *especially* not a highly contextual language like Japanese. This is especially obvious when it comes to sayings or idioms, what makes perfect intuitive sense in one language may sound like utter gobbledygook in another. A degree of adaptation is always necessary. What is not necessary, however, is the localizers (whose job is it to try and remain as faithful to the _spirit_ of the original text as possible) thinking they know better than the writers what their stories are actually about and putting words in the characters' mouths that they objectively did not say. (Note that when I say "words", I do not mean rephrasing, I've already acknowledged that is often required.) As others have pointed out, this is a problem that has existed (especially in anime and video game translations) for a long time. The difference is that while in the 90s and 2000s it mainly consisted of stripping IPs of their "Japaneseness" in a misguided attempt to appeal to the casual American audience (like the infamous example of the 4Kids dub of the Pokemon anime turning onigiri into jelly doughnuts), nowadays it often takes on the form of sociopolitical statements and references that were never present in the original work. (Funimation was especially guilty of this, adding in snide remarks about Gamergate in Prison School, or the "patriarchal demands" placed on women in Dragon Maid, among others, completely out of the blue) Regardless of your political affiliation or lack thereof - this wasn't OK then, and it isn't OK now. Apologies for my longwindedness, but needless to say, this whole subject is a landmine to try to navigate without stepping on anybody's toes... and I have almost assuredly done so anyway. But, at least I can honestly say I've tried to add my two cents. Let's remain civil, shall we?

It's literally just a stylistic choice for the english to be more poetic, that's it. It's not any deeper than that. You can dislike that but I feel most english speakers prefer that to boring transliteration of the japanese which seems to be more functional than anything.

Well compare to the translation of fire emblem fate where a full emotional support conversation was replace with just three dot back to back, I found unicorn overlord translation quite true to the meaning of the japanese work. It just add a Time period context which gave more authenticity. AT 51:00, concerning Alain and Joseph convo, I think it's more to show Joseph's state of mind as the person he swears to protect (the Queen), gave an order that contrary to his oath.

Hey guys, excellent points as usual, I got this game for my father-in-law. Mike’s review sealed the deal. I’m currently playing the demo. Now on a different note, I would love both your opinions on The Malazan Book Of The Fallen series by Steven Erikson. I could die perfectly content having heard your take. The internet is currently flooded with malazan video’s, bur none would come close to your take I imagine… Anyways, thanks for all the hard work you guys keep putting into your video’s!

46:44 As a person who served a church mission in Japan, the language we used to convey religious concepts was straight out of one of the Japanese versions of the Bible (Seishou) was originally translated into Japanese from Dutch (I believe, I may be wrong about that). So many words had to be carefully translated over to the equivalent word in Japanese, otherwise their meaning would be lost entirely. So TL:DR Kamisama in Japanese is the same way you’d say God for Shintoism, Buddhism and Christianity.

English has went through several changes from Old English > Middle English > Great Vowel Shift > Modern English. The Middle English and pre GVS English feels like you should understand it...but its just doesn't compute.

I'm 35 now and I remember struggling to understand Shakespeare in high school. I could understand enough to get the basic plot, but I would definitely miss whole ideas because words or phrases completely went over my head. I haven't read any Shakespeare recently, but I've never been a big fan of that style of writing or dialogue. It doesn't add anything to my understanding of the time and place of the narrative. For me, I find it takes me out of the story. I don't like having slang or the alien words that the current generation uses (I'm too old for any of that). I just want a relatively recent style of writing or speech that would make sense in the last 50 years or so. I understand that many people enjoy Shakespearian writing and I'm glad it helps them understand the story better or feel more in the moment, however I just can get into it myself. That doesn't mean that I dislike flair and color in dialogue, I usually prefer it. A lot of the time it's the case that older scripts will change around the order of sentences to work with older styles of grammar and I think that , more than anything else, is what turns me off from Shakespearian and other, older dialects.

❤️🙏🏼gonna buy this in 2 days 😊

This game has really thrown me for a loop. I don't really like the story so far, the art style or have much connection to the characters, but I absolutely love this game. Kinda hoping the rest grows on me as I keep going, but the overall game experience is incredible. Honestly,, I think I just respect any game willing to draw this much inspiration from Ogre Battle... that means something, especially in this day and age of gaming.

Another thing to consider is that the script isn't just translated line by line - the entire script is looked over and then the localization team decides in what way each line should be translated - as it relates to the rest of the script. I've heard that in anime, writing is necessarily more dramatic and can lead to different writing tones, which might be one reason anime live action adaptations feel off or different for example. Needs to be adapted to the target

Am I the only one who actually really likes the name Unicorn Overlord? I think it's cool...it has this kind of regal quality to it

34:13 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Makes me wonder which games if any have a 1:1 literal translation. Of course, if you do that 100% of the time, sometimes the English will sound unnatural. Though Unicorn Overlord is one of those examples where they add much more.

The comments of the original X user are so frustrating because I often agree that English (and other non-Japanese) localization has very, very poor quality but this is NOT one of those times so it's an awful thing to focus on as somebody who is critical of translations in general. There have been numerous changes made that completely change intent and often the most egregious ones are very clearly terrible, very personal political takes of the translator. The best example I can quickly think of is Ghostwire: Tokyo's translation of "Who knows really/I don't know." Into "All property is theft. Not only is this I think fairly objectively terrible but the publisher/developer actually CORRECTED this line, some time later down the road. This is really a happy ending scenario that rarely happens for these kinds of things. In any case, there are BIG, BIG differences across the various translation that need to be made and in the past I have got more upset about this than I do today. Today I just want to keep learning Japanese so that this is an irrelevant problem. I just really hate when translators inject their own thoughts on top of the Japanese creator's thoughts and I am very consistent in this, the 90s translations with silly pop-culture references are also not good translations, I don't pick and choose based on politics. I want to know what the creator wanted me to feel, not what a translator wants me to feel, respectfully.