Yah, definitely. Was thinking about holding out some months (or even years?) for a Mac Pro Cube/Mini M1 in hopes of it being spec’d with a couple of PCI supporting expansion slots...but going to confidently settle for the Mac Studio M1 Max now, as compatibility with whatever desired recording gear may very well be able to be alternatively achieved externally via Thunderbolt 4...and also it looks like plenty of DAWs and plugins are now coming online for compatibility with M1, along with Monterey, this machine’s minimal O/S.

Yes THIS. So nice to have the various options so we can really customize what we need.

Yep, Vienna still lagging here...

Very good point.

Super important. My I mac 2020 is hoorible for sound

The M1's strength is definitely efficiency. Yes you can brute force your way with a PC, but it'll double as a space warmer for your studio.

I had no idea what M1 was when I got my laptop and almost decided against it because lack of native support, but after having owned one it would be hard to go back. I definitely prioritized getting another M1 after my first, because it just lasts longer. More convenient. I bet these M1's will be some of the first commercially viable computers that last 15-20 years (instead of the usual 10). Because thats what it feels like. Like it would last twice as long like a hybrid car or something (my prius currently has 330k miles with no signs of slowing down). Lasts longer, charges better, and its super quiet. M1 is a win.

Isn't the Studio desktop more likely to out last the macbook pro? As it has less parts that could become faulty? Or are you referring to how long you personally see yourself comfortably/being happy to use it.? And if went for Studio Ultimate, presumably would get a few more years worth of updates vs the Pro? I'm still using a 2012 macbook pro, that just about works. Get alot more power potential for the money with the studio vs the Pro, but not the all in one portable convienance.

I think the original poster was talking about the Mac Pro(desktop), not the MacBOOK Pro(Laptop)

@@tay.joh.6326 Indeed he was. Thanks for your input, it made me read again and was instantly clear.

That's great to hear.

did you get the 10 core or the 20 core of cpu? I'm afraid to buy the 10 core just to find that it's not enough

Really interesting to read this firsthand experience! Especially from a last-gen Intel to a first-gen M1.

@@daviddas Looks like Plugin Alliance just updated to M1! Downloading now...

Ultra will never be used any time soon in a MacBook due to thermal issues. Maybe in 3-5 years when technology and heat management gets smaller/better.

M1 Pro MBP with a new RME Babyface Pro here. It's the most solid and stable audio setup I've had to date. Doubt I'll be upgrading again for many years to come ...it handles everything I throw at it, with plenty of headroom to breath.

External SSD drive performance should be comparable especially if you go m2. As for your other question (if an external machine will still be needed) it's impossible to give a one-size-fits-all answer since everyone uses their setup differently. I'll go out on a limb and say the Mac Studio can likely do a good chunk more than the higher-end Intels that it replaces, but some people who need mega power or have mega templates will still want additional machine(s). The cheapest solution would be a DIY Intel machine for those purposes. We shall see as the high-end Mac Studios start rolling out and people start putting them through their paces!

Impossible to give you a one-size-fits-all answer but take a look at your RAM usage in Kontakt to see how much RAM you currently use. You can also experiment with Preload Buffer Size which affects how much RAM Kontakt is using. (Video on this coming soon.)

Check my video description for a monitor alternative -- I named one possibility. (And there are likely several others in this class too.)

The only 5K alternative is really the LG Ultrafine 5K, and it's not that much cheaper. At that price range, I think just buying an Apple is a better investment. Nobody else really makes a monitor like that, with that combination of resolution and functionality, which is why they can price it the way they do. I really love the 5K resolution for running Logic. More than monitor size, I always want pixels for my workspace.

Broadly speaking, back in 2013, larger setups were more reliant on PCI, which was unfortunately subtracted from the 2013 Mac Pro. Nowadays, I don't know many people still using PCI. Most have migrated to USB3 or Thunderbolt. Even larger arrays of MOTU i/o work great via TB/ethernet. I'm not an expert in these bigger setups, but I know if I was setting ups. larger setup today, I'd be much more interested in TB/ethernet than in PCI. I've used some of MOTU's AVB gear and it is excellent.

@@daviddas thank you, i see. Appreciated.

LOL well played.

But then you’re stuck with the abysmally-slow “intelligent” floppy drives, even with any kind of acceleration, that are still far slower than the brainless Apple ][ disk drives!

It's impossible to predict how things will work out for you, because I don't know the quantity of RAM your current orchestral template is currently using, nor your typical polyphony, which affects how much CPU you use. If I can get my head around a good way to explain it, I may do a future video on this topic, so stay tuned. As for myself, I'm planning to do some tests soon with my current M1 MacBook Pro which has 64GB. Based on the results of that, that'll give me a clue as to how much I want in my still-unordered Mac Studio. Again, hopefully it'll make it in to a future video if I feel like it's something I can explain well and will be helpful.

@@daviddas thanks, got it, will wait for your video.

I wasn't aware of the ElevationLab product. Thanks for the tip. I generally like the Magic Mouse as is, but if this makes it better, it's worth considering. The Mac Studio as a band-aid: I understand why you'd suggest that, but I think it's unlikely. Having created a new line, they are likely to support it for a while. The real unanswered question is what will happen to the future M1 or M2 Mac Pro. I have some ideas, which I'll save for a future video.

"Heavy amount of sample libraries" refers to how many libraries you choose to load simultaneously and how much RAM they occupy (and there are different ways to configure this). It's pretty hard to explain concisely so perhaps I'll do a whole video on it at some point. Some composers work very lean and modest, other composers demand hundreds of gigabytes of samples loaded and want them all loaded simultaneously so that when they're working, they don't have to wait for patches to load. I have a hard enough time determining for myself whether 64 or 128GB is better, because there's yet another bottleneck: CPU. So it's very difficult for me to make a recommendation for someone else. However, I'll brainstorm if there's a way for me to explain this simply in the context of another video.

@@williamtopping Unfortunately it is not as simplistic as you think. There are a lot of factors in it and not just simply adding instruments and doing simple math. That's why I suggest to leave it to a professional...

Most daws let you create a template with deactivated tracks that don’t load the VI’s into RAM. Even with a recent orchestral hybrid trailer track I did with 150+ tracks loaded into RAM it used 85gb RAM. However, when I went into each one and unloaded unused articulations I got it down to 55gb ram. When I then purged unused samples I got it down to 36gb ram. What I’m saying is that with a good habit of housekeeping as you go along then you don’t need 128gb ram. Unless you need to work quickly without thought, then go for it. I know composers that do custom trailers on tight turnarounds (like overnight) and they don’t have time to be housekeeping as they go along so they have min 128gb ram in their machines.

@@skipstream2 very helpful tip. It makes sense. Thank you so much!

@@skipstream2 Yes, you're right. A lot of busier composers don't want to bother with this. But it's a valid approach -- somewhat of a workaround -- as is freezing unused tracks or bouncing them. It totally works and can save significant amount of CPU, but at the tradeoff of convenience.

How massive is massive? This Mac Studio, at its highest config, could host quite a few major orchestral libraries simultaneously. But not infinite. The best multi-machine setup available now would be putting Vienna Ensemble Pro on 1 or more additional machines (even older machines can handle the load fairly well).

Remember too that the M1 ram is much more efficient than previous ram arrangements. I have 64gig of ram on an M1 max chip and it outperforms my Intel Mac Pro with 160 gigs of ram.

@@Dudadius the latency of the RAM is lower and it uses less power due to being on the package. For music, which isn’t using the GPU and similar things, what you’re gaining from is the speed of the SSD and swapping/memory mapping. The RAM doesn’t store more in it, it’s still that much RAM. Apple has created monsters that are very well-balanced such that they’re largely CPU-bound for many purposes that often handle streams of data, with fast enough internal SSD storage that the CPU cores are the limiting factors for getting data processed, not I/O speed.

I think that'll be a GREAT computer.

Thank you

Hi David, I was looking at the Apple refurbished site too and I found Refurbished Mac Studio Apple M1 Ultra Chip with a 20‑Core CPU and 48‑Core GPU with a price reaches to $3,779.00 where Max m2 was 2998.99. My goal is only the best performance with Logic Pro + VST like bbc symphony Orchestra Pro (CPU and memory hungry). What would be your advice on that? Thank you

If you had to, you could get by on 16, but I'd rather go for the 32 just to be sure I have some nice breathing room for the future.

If it's not about the money, always go with the "higher spec". You'll never complain "oh, I have too much RAM"......"oh, my Mac is too fast".....

I'm doubtful that extra memory speed will make much difference for us musicians -- that's not a bottleneck that slows things down for us. The larger drives, yes, are helpful if you have the budget. (My comment was more directed at people who choose to be frugal.)

@@daviddas Absolutely! Don't get me wrong. I don't want to spend anymore than I have to. That being said, I have been waiting for years for computers to get this good/great! This relatively huge investment needs to last for the next half-decade, at least, hopefully! During that time, I want the system to be hick-up-free and as bullet-proof as humanly possible. Expandable/up-gradable. And also, as much as possible, I want it all in the same liquid-cooled rack mount enclosure (PCIe NVMe M.2 Raid - for data security). Add to this the Dante (another PCIe card), ADAT Lightpipe (another PCIe card), 10GB Ethernet, and TB3/4 connectivity. Thankfully, we are now moving beyond the need for outboard DSP. Hopefully by Christmas, when I am going to make this purchase (like buying a new car!!!), things will be even more worked out (harrowed down) in this multimedia Production ecosystem.

That's a great point that I didn't fully explain. My summary is that now, in 2022, we have a myriad of choices for Thunderbolt and fast USB storage options and hubs, enabling us to connect just about anything to the computer easily and (mostly) economically. This wasn't the case with the 2013 Mac Pro, when Apple took away internal hard drive slots, and forced us to migrate to Thunderbolt which was barely supported at the time.

Yea, I heard that .....but Expandability is different from Upgradability .... More ThunderBolt, USB and SD along with the ability to drive four 6k XDR Displays plus a 4k TV via HDMI ...thats what makes it expandable. Anyway, who knows what cool, future ThunderBolt 4 devices might pop up(?)....Think external GPU...

@@goobfilmcast4239 True. I'm pessimistic that Apple will ever let us upgrade our own memory and drives again. But as for everything else, TB (and the newer faster generations of USB) are likely an effective avenue for expandability.

There's not really a specific relationship between computer and monitor. You should get whatever size monitor fits your space and is comfortable for you, both ergonomically and price wise. More expensive monitors have more features. I did an entire video on how I use a 4k TV as my main monitor and I love it, though of course that's not a solution for everyone.

IKR! Literally every video I've seen has been finalcut export times, blender renders, or cinebench tests. Do they really think that the only people buying these machines are youtubers or 3D renderers?

@@sgeggbub1008 hahah exactly. I want a Richard Strauss mockup test!

That's been the story of computers from the very beginning and probably will be forever. Buy what you need today and upgrade when you outgrow it (or when it's cost-feasible to do so).

hahaha

Yeah. It's still not quite there in terms of software compatibility imo. Such a fundamental change in architecture takes years for software manufacturers to catch up. I'm leaving it another year I think. I've got a high spec Intel imac and I'm not suffering performance problems

Good point Rex Effect. I use Kontakt 99% of the time, and now that I check, Kontakt is the only NI app that's Apple Silicon native. I would have mentioned this in the video if I had known it at the time. Well, for many film composers (which is one of my primary audiences) Kontakt IS the only important one. I know NI is working hard on this, so I'm not surprised they prioritized Kontakt first and then I'm sure the others will follow (hopefully quickly).

Normally you're right, it takes a long time, but I will say that this Apple Silicon transition appears to be easier for developers than many other major transitions. I've heard from the mouths of several developers that it was an easier port.

I believe external m2 drives connected via TB should be equivalent to internal drives. I haven't tested myself, but they should be in the same ballpark.

so what do you recommend? The 10 core or the 20? I don't really understand all that stuff... What I know is that my daw keeps crashing and that I need a computer that can hold large files and plugins while doing it smoothly.

@@vd12 Me too

It really depends on which and how many orchestral libraries you want to use. Some are small, some are humungous, and some people use them lightly (lower polyphony) while others use them very heavily. Some people keep everything loaded at once (which is most taxing) while others load only what they like/need. So there's no one-size-fits-all answer to your question. But if you are starting out, you can do a lot with 32GB. There are also some advanced settings in Kontakt and the other samplers that let you use less RAM in a trade-off for disk access. At some point I'll do a video on that.

@@daviddas thanks for taking the time to reply :) a video on that would definitely be interesting!

@@daviddas since the 64gb version isnt shipping until june (!) i'll stick with 32gb! it's a shame it can't be upgraded... but i think i'll be fine for now

Hey, will you update us on the results? I am also using an orchestral template. Thanks.

@@dksellou surely i can give an update! it's coming in april though

LOL. Most musicians will have audio input via external devices (audio interface or USB mic or similar) that provide superior A/D conversion than Apple would include.

They expect you to add one via PCIe... Oh, wait!

I have my doubts about Apple leaving Intel on the Mac Pro anytime soon. A Mac Pro has to have PCIe support and they haven't demonstrated that they can even do that with the M1.

It's possible, but I think Apple will probably re-use and expand the M1 before making a big deal about a quantum leap forward with an M2 (presumably next year). If they figure out a way to combine multiple M1 Ultras, I think that's what they'll build the Mac Pro on. (Note, too, that they have significant supply chain issues with the current chips, due to the current state of the world, so that factor will play into their plans.) I'm thinking of doing a video on this entire issue.

This is a reference to the current proliferation of USB 3 and Thunderbolt devices that are currently available. This was not the case in 2013 when Apple subtracted expandability and there were hardly any economical options to replace them. My contention is the 2013 Mac Pro was a few steps backwards regarding expandability. Now in 2022, the market has caught up. (I do still wish Thunderbolt enclosures were cheaper, though.)

@@daviddas Your reply is a fitting description of the Mac Studio. The 2013 Mac Pro offered 6 Thunderbolt ports, the Mac Studio only offers 4 (6 with the Untra, but then you lose the USC-C's). The 2013 Mac Pro offered 4 USB 3 ports, the Mac Studio only offers 2. The 2013 Mac Pro offered 6 Thunderbolt ports, the Mac Studio only offers 4. The 2013 Mac Pro offered 2 Ethernet ports, the Mac Studio only offers 1. Both models only offers one HDMI port. This is a huge issue with DAWs, which could be solved with a thunderbolt eGPU on the 2013 Mac Pro. (see blelow) With the 2013 Mac Pro, you can ugrade the processor (thought it is a bit fiddly). With the Mac Studio you can't. With the 2013 Mac Pro, you can ugrade the RAM. With the Mac Studio you can't. With the 2013 Mac Pro, you can ugrade the Storage. With the Mac Studio you can't. * With the 2013 Mac Pro, you can ugrade the GPU. With the Mac Studio you can't. * * You can upgrade the storage, by using very expensive PCIe expanders, but I've heard that the Mac Studio doesn't support external GPU cards, so if that's true you're screwed. So, the Mac Studio is actually a huge step back-wards, when it come's to expadability and upgradeability. The Mac Studio is missnamed. It should have been called Mac Video, or Mac Graphics. It's actually quite badly suited for audio work! It has already been nick-named the Trashcan 2.0. I don''t care about disgnostic performance tests. My computer is a tool. I don't sit around watching performance graphs all day. So the answer to your question "Is the Mac Studio right for a music studio?", is a resounding NO!! On the other important issue regarding Apple Silicon plug-in compatibility, your estimation is waaaay off! I recently made a "survey" by checking a lot of vendors sites, and contacting them by email (not everyone replied). My result shows that only about 30% support Apple Silicon NATIVELY! This is very important, as not all DWAs can run Native and Rosetta emulated plug-ins simultaneously. I'm told that Logic can, but with huge power penalty. My DAW (Cubase Pro) can't. So as far as I'm concened: Compatible via Rosetta = NOT compatible! So, before you invest in a Mac Studio (despite all the issues listed above), ask yourself the following important questions: Does my DAW support Apple Silicon NATIVELY? Do all my plug-ins support Apple Silicon NATIVELY? Can your DAW load native and Rosetta emulated plug-in simultaneously? If any answer is no, DON'T! It's wasted money! So, why not run the whole thing under Rosetta? I say, what's the point? I estimate that it will take, at least, another two years until all the comptibility issues has been ironed out. I'd rather keep on using my trusty 12 years old 5,1 Mac Pro, until then. At that time, I'll probaly be able to buy an M3 powered Mac Studio (or Mac Pro) for the same money. The Mac Studio (or any M1 Mac) is highly unsuitable for AUDIO work, right now. That's my opinion.

I'm planning a future video to address this exact topic...

Oh no! Really? What are your thoights on refurbished? I'm looking into the M1 Max chip Mac Studio* 64gb 1TB 10 core 32 core GPU comparing prices to the M2 Max Mac Studio with less storage and memory...I was leaning towards the M1*

Mitch Gallagher at Sweetwater did a video on his MacBook Pro with M1 Max in December of 2021. He puts it thru the paces using 1000 tracks with EQ, compression, etc.

It's wildly overpowered for most musicians needs. It's perfect for soundtrack work though as that often involves rendering video too

for me wanting a template of 200 tracks of vsts is ideal. But the compatibility is stupid, you are right. I never update my mac anymore , is a hell. I would love to run Catalina in a M1 lol

@@marcyd700 and still screenrecord and stream it if needed!

@@emanuel_soundtrack it's not ideal for that, a pc is way better, if you want a huge template ready immediately. The pc's can have more storage (m2, nvme) can have (with some motherboards) have 265GB ram if needed, performs better overall (e.g. faster motherboards: north/south bridge speeds). The studio is for people who want to remain in the apple eco system (and logic e.g.), and that is a valid reason, sure. But from performance, storage and ram, the pc always wins. Not saying pc's are nicer to work with, or don't have issues... but... it's true: pc's are more future proof, and can take heavier loads more easily.

Wouldn't that effectively be a Mac Mini?