*Well yes but actually no* is actually the only possible answer to this question lmao

OK, so, i remember when this series was first released. I read the first book in 3 days while in jail.

For me the pacing slowed too much after book six. I think one aspect that affects many readers perception of the pacing has been overlooked. I started reading this series in 1992. I finished reading it (at the earliest possible opportunity) in 2013. Twenty one years. When you are waiting so long between books in a story that you are incredibly invested in it can be frustrating when the story doesn't move forward very much and then you have another long wait before the next hit in your wot addiction. It's a long wait for the pay off! My perception is also (right or wrong) that Robert Jordan's illness probably affected him far more that people (or he himself for that matter) realised and that would make it even harder to draw together all those complex threads in his ongoing work. He disclosed his diagnosis in 2006. My understanding (and again I may well be wrong) is that the disease was often diagnosed when it was well advanced and he may have been quite unwell for some time without knowing why. Hell my sleep apnea can greatly affect my focus and ability to write. He may have had a lot going on health wise for a while. You mentioned editing which really interests me. His wife was his editor and he credits her with greatly improving his writing (no doubt true) but I wonder how much harder it would be to cut down some of that extra detail when it's your sick husband that you love? Would the series pacing and writing have played out differently if Jordan hadn't been so seriously ill? Both from the perspective of writing and editing.

I think wheel of time could have been an incredible 10 book series, any shorter and u lose what makes it special but there is plenty of parts that could have been cut out or shortened to get the series to 10 books while keeping the best parts intact

This may or may not be a popular opinion, but I absolutely love that it is a 14+ book series. I know everyone states the "slog" as a reason why it's too long, however, even though the series did slow down during/after Winter's Heart up until Knife of Dreams I still really enjoyed them. Jordan has a way of writing his characters that makes you feel like you actually KNOW them ; like they're old friends. And his world building....... bar none. Being 14+ books just gave you that much more time to be swept away into the amazing world he created and spend more time with the characters that you've grown to love (or hate) and I loved every second of it. P.S. I also agree with your sentiments about Sanderson (I love Sanderson as well). He got the chance to wrap up all the plot lines, so ofcourse the books are going to be amazing, because you're getting the endings to all these story arcs that have been building for several books. Besides, I feel things began to pick back up in Knife of Dreams anyways.

I'd read another 20 books describing every meal, every character getting dressed, every step of every journey if I could. There are 14 books and I was still sad that it had to end.

I liked that it is FINISHED.

The big issue with the flow of the books stems from the fact that Eye of the world was originally a stand alone novel. It was then expanded to a trilogy, then finally a open contract to what Jordan wanted to write. If the open contract had been in place from the start, I believe the whole story would have a different pace. You talked about all the descriptive writing like the pulling of the braids and things like the clothing and such, Jordan was also a master story teller and very good in the spoken form of stories. Its one of the things I personally love about his writing, he paints the picture in your mind that he wants to be there.

One of the things that I think subconsciously make us appreciate Brando Sando's inheritance of this series is that right off the bat he killed off Masema. Whether it was his decision or it was Mr. Jordan's plan, it just gave us all a feeling of ahhhh, the second most un-enjoyable character is gone, let's get excited

I first read the series when I was much younger, and I have been rereading it ever since. Because of this, I can't really remember my first read through or what I thought about length, pacing, etc. Besides the fact I was too young to really grasp how such things effect a series. I actually didn't realize people had issues with WOT until I starting engaging with internet content on it, but that was already years after I had read the series for the first time. Now, I can understand why some people have the issues they do with the series, but personally I will never have those issues myself. I grew up with WOT, and it will always be perfect to me.

The reveal of Matt's "half the light of the world" prophecy was one of my favorite moments in any book I've read

Personally I think they're the right length for what they are. I think over all the depth given to the world and characters is what makes it so unique. Without all of it so much of if would be lost. It felt so real and such a lived in world that still had so much mystery.

Really solid analysis. The slog with Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight was particularly excruciating when you had to wait years for them to be published. Anyway I've recently started my third read through and I agree with all your points on both sides.

Every author needs an editor, an impartial one who isn't afraid to say no. In the absence of one, writers tend to grow self-indulgent over time. The biggest weakness of the WOT is the needless recapitulations of fashion. Yes, we have figured out the different Ajahs tend to wear some version of their Ajah colors. We don't need to know what shade of red Pevara is wearing in every scene in which she appears. The same goes for hairstyles. Ultimately, a good editor would have helped RJ solve the timeline problem that plagues Path of Daggers, Winter's Heart, and Crossroads of Twilight. There is something to be said for less is more.

Totally agree. Trim down books 8 9 10 to one book and I think it would be perfect. Although I do love it as is too. I've read it 4+ times and doing my 5th full reread now, mid way through the great hunt.

I was one of the many that dropped out at Winter’s Heart. I did keep buying the books as they came out. Now I am reading them again, planning to finish them all.

I think that the series was about 2 books too short. Sanderson did an amazing job finishing the series, but I think so many moments that should have been in the finale got cut due to time constraints. Another book or two would have allowed us to have those moments that we did not get. It also would have helped with building up the ending. I always felt that while the Sharans were alluded to we never got to explore them in the main line series and they came out of no where for the last battle. Another book could have helped set them up better.

So glad I found your channel...I subscribed last night!

I always thought Morraine and Thom felt random too. People can argue otherwise- but, nah.

I just started the Wheel of Time this year, reading it along with another BookTuber and so far I'm really enjoying it. I had read a couple of the books when it was originally published and stopped reading because I just hate committing to a series that isn't finished. I don't know if I would have picked it up again if it hadn't been for the series that's coming out and people talking about it again. So currently I don't know which side I fall on, but I feel that the extensive descriptions in the first two books I've read really do what you mentioned and paint a 'real' world to me. So I guess I'm leaning towards it being what it is instead of shorter.

I think 14 was a good number, but... There were a few things that could have been expanded, and some Elayne, Faile, and Valan Luca chapters that I would not have missed. You did a great job covering the pros and cons. The slower parts of the series don't bother me as much on rereads, but they were frustrating on first read especially with having to wait for next book release.

Just finished book 6 of my reread. I think it is my favourite of the series this far. I know everyone's favourite is book 4 but I just love all the forsaken POV and everything going on with Rand and the Dark Tower. It also had the most iconic ending for me besides, Ironically, Winters Heart and the Cleansing of the source. I have a few other books to read before I jump into "the slog" so it will be interesting to see what I feel on this topic you brought up going forward :)

Tom Doherty (from Tor books) said in an interview (found on youtube) that Robert Jordan pitched The Wheel of Time as one book (😂) and Doherty thought that it was too big for one book so Jordan agreed to a trilogy. Because Doherty was aware that Jordan tended to write long, he offered Jordan a six book contract instead. After the book series stretched beyond the six books, Jordan saw the series as a twelve book serie but when Sanderson picked the series, the remaining plot was too big for one book so he stretched it to three books. This is how we got a fourteen book series, plus a prequel. Keep in mind that Jordan wanted to write a three book prequel series but only got one written.

Well thought through. I tend to agree with most all of your observations. The slog feeds slow because of the time redo from book to book. Some of Perin's trama segment was so long and never seemed to make any progress. I like that there are 14 books. As you say, it allows for Verin's story; outstanding ending. Also for Androl, who was such a minor character he wouldn't have even been there, but what transpires with him was so awesome and interesting. Matt's story became my favorite partly because of how much there was. The girls stories are great, and I wouldn't trade it. And lastly, i've reread the series three times... so obviously I don't think there are too many books. Also I count the novella New Spring which is so interesting I just call it book 15.

I recently discovered your channel and have really been enjoying your reviews. I'm not sure if you like Sci-fi but if you do you should should review The Culture series by Ian M. Banks and/or The Bobiverse series.

OMG, who are you and why am I just now finding you. Not only great, well thought out commentary, but absolutely gorgeous and a voice I could listen to all day. Earned a sub, right away. I think The Wheel of Time is a long series, maybe a bit too long in some places that feel like they are just filler. However, I think the lengths was necessary to flesh out some of the major story arcs like the Forsaken and the Seanchan. Those would have been lost in a shorter series.

I stumbled across this video by accident but wanted to say that I'm glad I did. Thanks for the info on this series. I've never read WOT, but I've been thinking about giving it a shot after hearing about the WOT adaptation they're working on. I read the Sword of Truth series from Terry Goodkind and after making it through that series I feel like I could make it through anything.😄

When you say Winter's Heart do you mean Crossroads of Twilight? CoT is the book after the big event in WH that everyone is reacting to.

THANK YOU! I’m new to the wheel of time. I love this. I am on the third book and I have watched both first and second seasons from Amazon prime. I am in the process of devouring as much information as I can so thank you for this talk about the length of the books. I agree w/Nempsy // I’d❤ read another 20 describing every meal, every character getting dressed, every step of every journey, etc.

I'm on Lord of Chaos now and it's already losing me to monotony in sections, I fear when I get to the real drag of the series. I am enjoying it but I find myself glossing over all the exposition. FOr my tastes, there is often just too much time taken explaining out scenes and non-critical characters. Some of that is fine but Jordan seems like one of those folks that if in a conversation with him I would often be desperate for him to get to the point.

You nailed the Office analogy.. But the WOT is too long... Maybe 6 books wouldnt have been enough...but 8 would be a nice compermise.

I'm reading through now as a first time reader. I was recommended by a friend but the sheer length has always scared me off. I'm well into book 12 now and I love the series. It certainly could've done with some trimming down especially in books 8-10. In my opinion Crossroads of Twilight was way worse than Winters Heart. This was the only book I was actively loathing having to read through some of the chapters. Having pushed through it, Matt and Tuons story in the following book was amazing and I'm glad I pushed through. I am pumped to finish the series and see how the final 3 books play out. Anyways, nice video! Always a rare treat to come across a new booktube channel with such a quality video! Good luck with the channel!

I like your conclusion. 11 Books would seem right. However, I'd skew my answer the opposite direction preferring a 6 book version over the 14-15 written. Love the video, thank you.

I don't know if I would say that it is too long. There are some parts that could be condensed for sure (RJ could have included the entire contents of Crossroads of Twilight in Winter's Heart and Knife of Dreams and lost nothing). But I also thought the final three books almost felt too rushed at times. I think that if RJ were still alive we probably would have gotten 5 books after Knife of Dreams, but I also think they would have been some of the best books in the series, as RJ seemed to have really learned his lessons from the slog and delivered a very tight book (and in my opinion one of the best books) in Knife of Dreams. I couldn't disagree more about Thom and Moiraine though! :) He was setting those two up since the first book, you just have to be able to recognize the very subtle romance he liked to use for side characters.

Actually, New Spring is too short. I really wanted to get the background on Tam and his finding Rand.

The first 5-6 books are so amazing. Somewhere after that the story took a back seat to world building. Each entry is about 3x as long as the average book yet it felt like it took 3 of them to get the same amount of plot. The continued focus on minor characters started to make the appearances of the main ones feel like cameos. The end felt nowhere in sight and Jordan likely would have kept going. Sanderson saved it by bringing the story back into focus. I went from only reading because of sunken time to having my love for the series rekindled.

Love WoT, but the pacing of the series as a whole as well as in some particular books is excruciating! I don’t think there were whole plot points that needed to be cut, but rather they could have been told in a more coherent, straight forward way. Content in the slog in particular just wasn’t broken up well among the books, especially compared to the whole story arc we were getting with some of the earlier works. I’m like you and can’t imagine WoT any other way than it is (and despite all my complaints I’d probably hate if it got republished to address these issues)!

I’ll start The Wheel of Time next year, after I finished the Powder Mage and the Gods of Blood and Powder trilogies. I really hope I’ll enjoy it

I thought it was Crossroads of Twilight where nothing progressed and everyone was just reacting to that huge event caused by Rand and Nynaeve, which is at the end of Winter’s Heart.

From what I've heard, the rumor you mention is partially true. Jordan originally planned on it being a trilogy but someone (I can't remember if it was his agent, editor, or publisher) read the outline and convinced him to expand it to 6 before any of them had been written. Then the series grew from there after he started publishing them

I was just thinking the same thing about Mat. He was extremely annoying in the first 3 or 4 books but he gradually grew on me. I'm currently on book 13 and for the last few books, the Mat chapters have been the most fun to read. He might be my favorite character.

Egwene doesn't just get a novel-size story inside WOT, she gets a Lord of the Rings-size story, it could be called "The Lady of the Great Serpent Rings." I think WOT would be perfect as 8-big volume epic. No more than 10 volumes definitely.

It's not long enough... once you finish the series. You'll be wanting more. In re-reads the slog isn't as bad either, because you're not in a hurry to find out what happens. The first read can be hard due to wanting the story to move along already, and wanting to find out where your favorite characters end up. Best character arcs in fantasy are in this series, btw.

I just finished a read through of the entire series and I wouldn't change it. There are times where he could've been less descriptive but I think those sections only feel slow because of the reader's anticipation about what will happen next. I agree that Thom and Moirane's relationship came as a surprise and was a bit confusing. I'm going to see if I catch any foreshadowing on a re-read though.

I was at an RJ signing once where he told the story -- this was conceived as a trilogy! After two books it was clear he wasn't going to wrap up and so he announced it was going to be six books, and since the books were selling well, the publisher really didn't have a choice but to acquiesce. And after six books went rushing by, he started setting new end points and missing them. After Path of Daggers, he promised three more books. After Winter's Heart, in the signing I was at, -- he also promised three more books, and swore up and down there would be no more than that, no matter what. And then when he passed away there was only one book declared that of course famously split into three. I'm in the camp that WOT was great for what it was, and that Brandon injected absolute lightning into the series with Gathering Storm. That book was absolutely breakneck pacing and I loved it! But I don't think RJ was capable of wrapping up these stories, especially not at the speed that Brandon did. Had RJ lived longer, I thing the series would have gone on considerably longer. I think I would have loved it anyway. It's great either way. Minor quibble, I think you confused Winter's Heart with Crossroads of Twilight, which RJ admitted that rewriting the events of WH from every other character's perspective wasn't great but by the time he realized it, it was too late to start over.

Sanderson actually made a pretty good comment a while back about how he didn't want to fall into Jordan's trap of making such interesting side characters but then actually writing about them. When you start to add 200 page chunks about side characters, that was when the mid third of the books got really bogged down. Jordan seemed to have trouble just sort of letting side characters STAY on the side. Which then led to longer character arcs and a lot of filler to keep our mains in certain areas or situations too long. I absolutely love this series, the ending and the overall story even though I accept the flaws surrounding the excess meandering content. Plus I had just read Elantris and the 1st 2? Mistborns when I heard he got picked to finish WOT and was instantly excited.

Read the entire series which delves into the Wheel of Time Universe. Love all of it. Trying to get my oldest son to write his first book on a World he created with copious notes. Actually a gamers world played with multi-sided dice.

Die hard WoT fan, and I'll be the first to admit WoT does have plenty of issues, but the length of it and the details are what made this into a series where there is always so much more to explore. I've never found another world I can dive into quite so much.

The main issue the series suffers from is being able to balance the actions the side characters must accomplish to help the plot move forward with what the main characters need to do to move the plot forward. Perfect example is Verin. If we hadn’t had the time with Verin to see her character act, question her motives, and see some of her abilities, her resolution would not have been nearly as satisfying. I think what Brandon Sanderson learned from finishing the series is how to overcome this failing, which he does through multiple timelines, flash backs, interludes, etc. Same thing with Patrick Rothfuss, who does way more world-building in two and half books than Rober Jordan does in twice that many. This is due to the method of the storytelling. Similar things could be said about N.K. jemison. I just don’t think fantasy had the “technology” to write the super long epic without getting bogged down.

Great video, loved listening to your opinion. Keep up the good work!

I think I'm going to read that book series. I actually read the first book about 20 years ago. I love fantasy, so maybe it's time for me to pick up where I left off. The slog doesn't scare me...at least for now... lol

edit: i was a bit too harsh on my wording before. i jumped the last three before the final three books, and i felt like i wasn't missing a lot apart from some key plot points. it's insane to me because they're huge books, so i do think the series could be less.

You having an Aes Sedai ring makes me want to get the Asha'man pins to wear.

Good points. I definitely wouldn't want the series any way other than as it is buuuut... haha I usually just skim descriptions anyways but I could see how the pages would start dropping with a bit more editting.

I've never read it, but I'm tempted

I have a maybe controversial opinion that if Robert Jordan had been able to finish the Wheel of Time, it would have been a 20 book series. I'm not saying that Sanderson's three books are better than Jordan's hypothetical seven books, but I really believe Sanderson is stronger in plotting and structure, and his ending to the series was tighter than what Jordan's would've been. If Jordan had written the Stormlight Archive, he wouldn't be able to stick to 10 books. I have faith that Sanderson will.

I think this would have gone on for 20 books if Robert stayed healthy. The Sharan army and how they came under the spell of a forsaken army might have been its own trilogy. You can tell there was tons of unexplained back story left on the cutting floor.

I think we could have done without most of Lord of Chaos, Winter’s Heart, and Crossroads of Twilight. There’s just too much time where nothing happens. It’s just too much politics.

The *only* thing I don't like about the length is the amount of recapping TOR made Jordan put into each book. If they were to go back and trim this, I wouldn't mind too much. Otherwise, it could've been 10 books longer and I would've been perfectly OK with that. Never understood the mindset of "this book could've been shorter". No, a different version of the book could've been shorter, but this book is the author's vision and is as long as it needs to be. Then again I'm a re-reader and every time I finish I wish there was more.

WoT was a 6 book contract before a word was written. Jordan knew roughly where he was starting, where he was going and how it would end. But Jordan was by his own words prone to being overly optimistic about how much plot he could fit in a book. In that 6 book outline, the first three books of WoT would have been one book, but you can't exactly write a 2000 page novel so they had to be split up. It's also why WoT ends up having a 3 book intro and why you've got books where major characters aren't mentioned once, because the natural breakpoints span more than one book.

You make good arguments on both sides. I think most fans would agree that books 8-10 could be condensed from 3 books to 2 or even 1. If you want to be even more frugal, you could trim some fat off books 5-7 too, maybe a whole book’s worth of Valan Luca’s circus shenanigans, etc., but I think it’s actually less about skirt-smoothing, braid-tugging, and clothing-obsessing and more about focusing on side characters. We get arcs about Bors/Jaichim Carridin, Morgase and company, Sevaana et al, and even Sanderson’s Androl and Pevara. On a first read-through, this comes off as excessive at times, especially when you’re itching to see what happens to Rand or Egwene, but on re-reads, it adds flavor. I think there could be a trimmed version for a first-time reader that’s maybe 11 books as you say. And then the full 14 book version for a re-read (in addition to New Spring), with all these “bonus scenes,” sort of like the extended version of the LOTR movies. But I do think no matter how you edit it, each reader will perceive slow parts for whichever characters they dislike. I’m looking at you, Elayne and Gawyn, and even you, Perrin and Egwene. These characters are “controversial” because they’re not universally loved. You could cut something from these arcs and think you’re making the story better, but defenders of each would fight you on that approach. The Gawyn apologists would be wrong, of course, but they’d still try. ;^)

When Jordan pitched the idea to Tom Doherty he pitched it as a three book series, but Tom knew how Jordan wrote and thus made room for a six book series. Not sure if I saw this mentioned on something Sanderson recently posted, or in old interviews with Jordan that you can find on here.

As someone who read them as they came out, I think the length was about right. I would eagerly await the next book. I can see how someone reading them back to back would get bogged down in the middle. The same plot points could have been tied together with less books.

Just finished the series. Have to agree, could have been shorter, but at the same time I wouldnt want to change a thing. Great video!

I finished WoT two years ago. I’m still not sure if it was worth it so to speak. There was so much I didn’t like but a lot I did. Books 6-10 were pretty meh all around, and Jordan wrote some things poorly (am I the only one that thought the big event at the end of book 9 was boring and didn’t feel epic even though the events were monumental?), and gosh his characters can be frustrating, beyond just them being realistic, sometimes they’re just bad. The world building is phenomenal, absolutely amazing, but I’m not convinced Jordan wrote it well. The epilogue was cool, some scenes were great. I didn’t care about some “epic” deaths (because I didn’t care for the characters), though again some scenes were gooseflesh inducing. I still felt unsure about it after I finished, and I’m still there. :/ And yeah, Crossroads of Twilight is one of the worse books I’ve ever read.

I believe that the chosen one trope has the potential of being the most fleshed out growth given that it is the trope of the perfect being, constructing a character through that is the most complex.

I originally started reading WOT when only the first 5 books were out. By the time I finished 5, Lord of Chaos was out, so I read that too. Two years later, I started on A Crown of Swords and felt lost on some of the storylines and put it down. When book 8 came out, I decided to bite the bullet and re-read the whole series for context. There are so many threads and POV characters by that point that I needed the brush-up. I did the same after 9 and 10 came out, essentially reading the first 6 books 3 times. I lost momentum, and just could not go on. I love the world and many of the characters, but it is just not worth the investment. I have waded through too many braid tugs and sausage fingers, too many characters I don't care about and clever nods to side-stories I don't remember. 7-9 books would have been enough for this story if he had kept the pace of the first 3 books and trimmed out some fat.

I´m on book seven and probably gonna call it there. Even the highs of the series haven´t been that high so far and there´s so many lows that it just can´t really convince myself why i should continue. Just too much fluff. Robert Jordan would definitely need an honest editor that would just cut the fat from series.

Yes I am and I hundred percent agree with your assessment of these books .

Well done.. I read them as they came out and thought they were just right.

Jordan originally planned a trilogy however he realised he needed more space to fill out the story,his publishers gave him their backing for 6 books but he still kept expanding it... the success of the series kept them with him... he still only planned for 12 total before he died, the last was to be extremely long, Brandon Sanderson decided the last book needed to be divided into 3 books totalling 14... 15 with the prequel “new spring”

Regarding the assertion that Brandon saved the series, as I understand it the recovery from the Slog had actually happened in the last solely Jordan book. So Jordan himself was clearly on the way to achieve what some may credit Sanderson with.

The thing with the wheel of time is once Sanderson took over he established that the first ten books had taken place only over the course of two years. That’s so true that the first three have a sense of urgency about them which eventually fades away. I attribute that to Jordan realizing he wanted a longer series. The books felt like they had unraveled over the course of half a decade and then Sanderson was ummm nah. Strange series. Also winter’s heart was a serious pain but had IMO the best climax beside memory of light

I wish we had even more books:(

You nailed it, 12 books would be perfect for the series. The depth makes it what it is but the pace slowed just too much during winters heart and crossroads of twilight.

I started reading the series in the early 90's and had to wait for each to be published. By the time 9 came out it was pretty obvious that R Jordan & publishers were milking the fans for every extra dollar they could by stretching & padding the series. Even the author got bored, producing a prequel novel that was unnecessary & unasked for. I guess that's what happens when your editor is also your wife... A series that should have been 10 books was milked out to 15. I gave away the 10 I had and never finished the series.

8 books would have been enough. Realistically after Travelling was re discovered things would have progressed VERY quickly.

Sadly the number of books and words is what draws me away.. In particular I'm scared about the pacing.. I hate filler chapters, or chapters where nothing really happens in the story.. I'm just looking for something similar to lotr.. Do I need to search elsewhere? Great channel btw :)

As a repeat reader (more than a few rereads) everything you said makes sense. I think WoT is as long as it needs to be to achieve its goals but that doesn't mean its perfect. It is definately a book that rewards re-reads because there is a lot in there that is very subtle and needs room to breath. I liken WoT to a box of fine wine or progressive metal album - not every wine/song in the same batch/album works for you where you are at, but the overall effect of the wine or music creates light and shade, praise and complaint etc. And as you grow and experience different lifestages your tastes change and you discover that a song you didn't really enjoy now has a different feel for you. WoT's problem is its strength that you can read it at any time in your life stages and it speaks to you, however it is also speaking above, below and around you which is perceived as wasted content/story threads/description. It's the adage of something designed for everyone is actually designed for no-one. A first time reader will find a lot in WoT to enjoy but not everything in the series is designed for a first time reader. I think that is why a lot of the fan base recommends reading it with a buddy that is re-reading it because like wine or music you don't exactly enjoy the company and community is there to enjoy it and you can vibe off that.

Imagine having to wait for each book release. I stopped after Daggers. I came back a reread the series after AMoL released.

I know this video is old, but since I discovered it because of the TV-series, which I enjoy even if my impression (maybe wrongly?) seems to be that a lot of fans are annoyed because of the many changes and shortcuts they have made, I must say I agree with both your viewpoints in this video of yours. I think *a lot* could be shortened if so many side-plots and so many side-characters weren't included and given so many pages in the books. But on the other hand, for the die-hard fans a lot of the lore and world building would be lessened if it wasn't. Personally -- as maybe an average reader and nothing at all close to a die-hard fan -- I got increasingly impatient with the endless politics and the constant anyone-can-be-evil/darkfriend/black ajah-viewpoints and constant introduction of side characters and side plots that -- in my opinion -- often seemed to lead to nowhere. Not to mention that the overall plots have many similarities to other fantasy series, like for example Lord of the Rings and Dune to mention two of the biggest. So the only unique thing was how it was told, and not the really the tale itself. Anyway, in short, personally I think my overall view on the book series would have been much more positive if it wasn't dragging on for so many books.

It depends on the person, does a soap opera run for too long? It's perfectly fine for people to not like it, or like it its fine either way. Sometimes drawn out stories let you get to know the characters and world on a different lvl, sure you could cut some stuff out, but it wouldn't be the same story. As for the books Sanderson wrote i think he deserves alot of credit, its not a easy task. With that said i think most of us feel he did as good as job as possible, but its not on the lvl of having RJ finish his own story, I'm sure he could have done it in 5 to 7 more books :)

I agree that it could have been cut down by a couple of books. However I wonder how long it would have actually been if Robert Jordan had finished the series. For example one place to expand the Wheel of Time would have been with the story of those beyond the Ail's land that kind of just get thrown in at the end and was one place I believe Brandon felt he had to leave out to finish the series but was unfortunate that he had to do so. So perhaps a 14 book series would have still been the right size but if some things had been shortened while others were included.

I don't know if this has been said or not but here's my opinion. I know it was going to be a short series I don't remember if it was six or how many it was going to be. When he increased it it was supposed to be a 12 book series but when he passed away and Brandon Sanders took over from the notes that Robert Jordan left behind that 12th book was so big that him and the publisher both agreed to split it into three books that's why it became a 14 book series. I think the series is perfect as it is as a 14 book series. Trying to cram everything that we need to know into a 6 book series or less would have less appealing to a lot of readers that love the series.

Crossroads of twilight be like. "I feel... thin. Sort of stretched, like butter scraped over to much bread"

I've read the first 4 books many years ago but I stopped for whatever reason and never finished it. I got to actually read them after I get through the cosmere!

I feel that some books could have been a bit longer even. I love more detail and flavour but I would be so interested to read a 6-book-arc version of Wheel of Time.

You hit it on the head. 11 books worth would be perfect. One thing about the earlier books was they also were written for the young adult market where he moved to a more adult audience as the books progressed (note some of the R-rated themes that emerge). This meant that he would recap things from earlier books which necessarily consumed page count for no gain in story advancement. Not only that but he tended to describe the recap the same way each time, which can lead people to skip material. Now, an item in favor of length was that he had the tendency to bury a key new element in what was otherwise boring boilerplate text. How many times did he slip a Gray Man into a room in the midst of entirely different information? This meant added length. All that said, I think you meant Corridors of Twilight, which is essentially what everybody else was doing while the end of Winter's Heart happened. Now, WH has the problem that much of it is Rand and Min on the run with only one scene being really interesting. The book is a bit of a slog overall but does pack the single most important surprise ending of the entire series. CoT does not have this advantage.

I met Robert Jordan at a book signing in Glasgow for book 5. I asked him how many? He answered, seven maybe eight. Then as time wore on, I hit 'the trudge', and they were no longer the most eagerly anticipated releases I hungered for... Sadly, I lost interest, and stopped after book 8, or 9. I did manage to complete it years later, when I heard about the Amazon TV series. But, my God was 'the Trudge' still there, and almost physically painful.

It's hard to say but you make great argument from both points of view. 2) Now, if we're talking "malazan books of the fallen"? I can't get enough and love every book from both authors (I wish there were 50 lol)

The various politicking of the fractuous factions was a great aspect of the novels, rather than the monolithic idea of them all being united. But, it was hard to keep them clear in your head, as the books came out with a full year, or so between each. The different travelling methods, grew convoluted, dreaming, parallel worlds, the ways... The seanchan were significant, and I half waited for their lands to be added to the map, as the Aeil Waste had been expanded... or the lands beyond... or... or... or... At some point, editing and focus need to be applied.

The answer to the titular question is a thundering YES!

I’m just very done with the Slog. I feel like I’m in a toxic relationship where I’m just pushing through a series I do not enjoy and haven’t enjoyed since 4 books ago with the hope after Winter’s Heart it’ll get good again

When I met him in Knife of Dreams promo, he said that he would be done on Book 12. After his death, they saw that the last book should be 3.

This debate exists because people are under the impression that all the descriptions, and arguments, and romances, etc... are just interactions between the characters. What's REALLY going on is that The Pattern is manipulating everyone, and every single event in every chapter. Over and over, someone will repeat "the wheel wills as the wheel will". They also repeat that people have little choice, except for Ta'veren. And even what they do is woven into The Pattern, so they end up having less choice than most other people. But no one every remembers, including the characters. And that's The Pattern's doing as well. The entire story is all about The Pattern playing everyone like chess pieces before The Last Battle.

I love The Wheel of Time, but it's not one I recommend to people mainly because of the longwindedness. That doesn't mean I'd change it. The only thing I'd really change is that Jordan would have lived to finish the series himself. I fell in love with it with its flaws, and hey, it gives us things to talk about while also highlighting Jordan's strengths, because let's face it, not many authors could accomplish what he accomplished with the scope of the world and the story. The TV show has shown it's not easy to streamline it to make a better version. Chances are you're simply going to break what made it special.

No i was so happy it was stretched out! I’m happy they have all those perspectives

Yes it is kind of long and I love it, have you read Malazan Book of the Fallen yet, long, really long, even though there are 10 books

I have never heard about the wheel of time. It's cool listening to you discussing them. I have finished my first Brandon Sanderson novel Skyward.

its fun to be in world learning about the world. kinda like a long escape.