The other challenge I can think of (other than timezone) is making sure that the other location can hear any questions brought forth by the audience. This isn't as much of a concern when the "other" people are completely remote and so have their own microphones in their computers, but can be a challenge when you have 2 large rooms on the call. This is generally solved by either passing a mic around or the presenter of the physical room repeating any questions before giving an answer. It's a completely solvable issue, but one I sometimes feel is under-prepared for.

Would love to virtually join a Flipper class. Timezone wouldn't matter to me. You could almost make it a after hours event starting at 4am Vagas time and just force everyone to wake up early. 😅

I would love to see a Flipper class. I don't care what time it is. I would need to watch online

I think it would work great for the most popular classes (RFID, Flipper). If you're creative about it, you MIGHT be able to get away with a staggered start time - start at 9 at both places, but move some modules around so that there are common simulcast modules, and maybe 1-2 modules delivered locally at each site if times are off.

My daughter takes her concurrent enrollment through a simulcast and it works. The only hitch is if the instructor isn't skilled at handling questions from the remote site. I worked for an organization that did webinar training, which was shorter than what you're discussing, but we tried to make the schedule work for as many people as possible, out out the times, and trust the attendees to make whatever arrangements they need to make it work.

TLDR; IMO not dumb. I'm not US based, but anything that improves accessibility to courses that you do is amazing. Timezones are a royal pain in the behindus but there are ways to make it work. If you had the simul-cast stuff at the same time, but then jiggled the workshoppy bits and other stuff around, it could really easily work. Portable mics in each room for any questions so both sides can hear.... I love how you have accessibility requirements / remote attendance at the forefront too. I love what you do and having more people able to experience Deviant-adjacent things has only gotta be a good thing.

As someone who worked with LEO, AF, FD, EMS, SAR…. I am used to 24hr/day wakey-wakey…. And sadly, don’t have much concern for “9-5ers”. Or Mon-Fri. We only used clocks and calendars to document our responses. I learned “If it is important enough to be needed, if it is important enough to you, then you will get your ass up” Complaints of “It’s too early, I haven’t had coffee, I haven’t had breakfast, I haven’t combed my hair, ad nauseum” we NOT tolerated. So start what time, start what day, to me I’m in. I’m honest enough to admit I may not be able to afford the training, though.

If there's any non-sequential modules in the class that you can move around that might be an idea to try. Have EST do a 2-3hr module first thing, then PST start with the 2nd module and do the 1st module last.

I think it's a great idea! More opportunity and availability in VA is great. Sometimes work will pay for the classes but not the travel, too.

I was patiently waiting for you to post a video about the Flipper Zero ;) I heard you mentioning it during a few speeches but I was expecting a dedicated video and now I saw your thumbnail!

This is a great idea. The first time I did a distributed learning experience was in 1989, via George Mason University and VA Tech who offered a closed channel satellite TV broadcast course on hazardous waste management. They did classes on everything from airborne radar to radiation safety, with people taking classes all over the US. It can be an excellent learning experience, but it needs good instructors/facilitators.

I know Feds who love that they get to work 6:00A to 2:30P here on the East coast, and get frustrated when asked to work later. And, then there are those who prefer to work later, as late as 9:30A, which lets them off at 6:00P. And, they have to get permission to work later than 6:00P or earlier than 6:00A. And, that's why there's a fair amount of activities that get scheduled in what they call core hours: 9:30A to 2:30P. But, that's a typical work week. They tend to be more willing when it's something they want to do.

Having delivered training in person and virually, I think it is a good idea as long as the simulcast adds value to the students on both ends. If it becomes aburden or distracts from the course that is when it becomes an issue. Incorporating ways to integrate everyone into discussions or breakouts to foster collaboration between the various locations would be fun to do. The more diverse your crowd the better the discussions and interactions.

as one who resides in a zero g recliner do to injuries received from "bodyslamming planet earth" and living to tell about it, i have no time constraints! love all that you guys do! the only way to keep ppl honest is to have keys to everything!

always dig your set aesthetics, amigo. hip, topically relevant and kind to the eye..

I love it! Could you have an hour or so of flex time for lab stuff that caters to the local time zones? Kinda like remote-first companies have "core hours" that all employees work for the sake of synchronous meetings. It'd take some doing to think through the courseware and find a module/lab that could be extracted from elsewhere in the course and taught that way, but it might help ease the time zone difference as well.

Makes a TON of sense to service a bigger crowd that far apart.👍 Hope it works out for you guys! And the flipper class looks awesome!😁

A virtual flipper class would be awesome!!

So long as there are instructors in both places. As some things/questions are much easier to answer during the handson portion with an instructor walking around the class and checking in with each person. If I am paying for a course with an instructor is the one on one when I'm not quite getting something which is what I appreciate. Similarly when running training, there are people who won't ask a question in the group but happy to ask when you are going around the room to check on everyone. Realise when talking to some on how to repharse something to make it click with them.

Living in EST and having attended many trainings in PST, the timezones can certainly be a struggle. If you're squeezing a lunch break in there, it's difficult to hit any reasonable middle ground. As long as everyone knows the schedule, probably worth giving a try.

I did a basic intro to the Flipper Zero and Physical Pen Testing at Dragoncon this week, as well as did an impromptu lockpicking class!

Not sure if you could do it with your existing curriculum, but if the simulcast works out, you could use the time zone differences to your advantage. Something like having east Coast focusing on blue team in the morning, and then when the west coast wakes up, they start on red team stuff. So as the West is trying attacks on their access systems, the East is seeing their attempts come in, trying to identify what's an "employee" and what's an "attacker" Alternatively, you could split the course up so that you've got half the lessons solo, and half the lessons simulcast, so each coast can have a 9-5

Simla casting classes would be a great idea especially for those who aren’t able to travel, or travel as far. Not stupid and all!

UK here, Could you do some “half day” classes that run in our evening, but your afternoon? Then people who have day jobs can attend virtually, but you aren’t working odd times!

I've done training across multiple time zones. You end up hating the other time zone. Things such as breaks for lunch are always broken. You're either up super late or super early. This isn't stupid as long as people are willing going into these classes are aware of the weird times and people have access to the same kind of equipment. I would also add, have some friendly east vs west coast rivalry to help people team up to 'beat' the other guys. The better everyone learns, the better everyone scores. Bonus round is both teams vs the previous last teams results ( or a made up number to beat ) ... have some ARG hacking game that they need to save the world or something.

I work for a company called Galvanize, we do Programming Instruction, so a similar technical field, all virtually since the pandemic. Timezones are one of the biggest killers. Instructors will be out of sorts if they have to work at weird times for them, and students who aren't used to it will perform noticeably worse. As fun as this sounds, I don't think it's meaningfully adding to either of the courses to do it as a simulcast, and is just a nerd trap of 'because I can'. There are often other considerations like introducing remote computers that have to be troubleshot by instructors can eat up a significant portion of time.

Yes, that works. Also DO needs to start a specific Flipper Zero email list for all those interested to inform them when/if he makes that class available.

Personally I would love to see a EU based class, or able to remote into it from EU even if I have to stay up to stupid hours. (The EU dedicated one would be nice as there are some differences in places. )

I personally think it would be a great idea. There are also a lot of training venues who record their 'simulcast' courses and then offer those recordings with follow up email/chat support for additional questions as an added 'online course' option. I think that opening up the availability to this sort of teaching and knowledge would greatly help out those who are simply too busy to travel to attend an in person course.

I love the idea of simulcasting it between coasts. I'd get up early and take the trip down to your virginia site to start around 11 and I don't mind staying late since I'm a night owl anyway.

I think the timezone thing isn't the biggest issue. I have been part of other remote classes and that is rarely an issue. People will make time for things they really care about. Often the biggest issue is things like questions. Often you had to e-mail questions later after class to get them answered. Make sure you set some method up for virtual people to ask questions even if it is only giving them an e-mail they can use after class. One issue on classes like this is timing as well. I think putting the flipper class on the weekend between other classes is ideal. Many of the people are going to want to take multiple classes so it makes sense if it works out in a way where they might be able to take 2 weeks and do multiple classes.

A best practice is for a speaker to repeat questions from the audience before providing the answer. It annoys me when I can’t hear the question but only the answer.

I love my flipper, and I'm only using it to 5% of its potential. It has my work badge, allegedly my maintenance guy's master badge, my TV power button, and my garage door opener. It's a fun, little tool.

I could get behind a virtual class, for sure.

Yeah if it's just two days, people can deal with a weird schedule. When I was studying for my CPA exams, we did all day on Fridays and Saturdays and Sundays several weekends in a row. One weekend is not too bad

I think that people who love the content will stick arround regardless of the time I would say that any persons that dont have work restrictions should take the later class but if it is held over the weekend it wont matter regardless. Also yes the barbie movie was a great watch, "im just ken" was a banger 👌🏼 🔥

I would absolutely get up early or stay late for a class I really want to attend. It would not matter, and I am sure your classes are desirable. I don't think it's going to be the issue you may be concerned with. Waking up early in Vegas will require more coffee, but I still think it's great.

Man, I would love to have the extra money and time to be able to attend some of these seminars. I got my first interest in security some 15+ years ago on lockpicking 101 and remembered your handle, then a few years back saw some of your speeches at defcon and I must say that I always found you to be an excellent story teller and I am glad to find your channel and sub.

I know we always struggle with business meetings we always struggle with timezone spanning meetings...everyone on the west coast complaining they are too early while east coast complains they want to go home. But for recreational hobby people, an afternoon/evening could be a plus.

I think this is a great idea, and I have to say that I really appreciate you acknowledging the current disastrous public health situation and the fact that it has meant that immunocompromised people (and anyone who spends time around immunocompromised people) have been so comprehensively left out of the much-vaunted 'return to normal'.

A few weeks ago, an old friend who now lives in Virginia-just south of D.C.-invited me to visit. He said the best time would be sometime in November. Being that I'm currently undertaking a huge move between states and also being one of the aforementioned people for whom this isn't a career (yet), we'll see if it's in the cards and budget. All that said, I would love the opportunity to learn some professional red teaming and to meet others in the cybersec field. Hopefully it goes without saying that potentially meeting you in-person would be a hell of a feather in my cap. You have my vote for in favor!

Federales like sleeping in too. The times sound good to me, execute.

DEV PLZ!!! DO THIS!! MY HEALTH KEEPS ME LOCKED IN MY HOUSE AND MY APPEARANCE SCARES PEOPLE BUT I WOULD MAKE THE TRIP FROM PA TO VA A DAY OR SO AHEAD OF TIME AND I WOULD FEEL NOT SO JUDGED THERE... IM SURE!!

Another option would be to have each day session being 2 sections, one local, one shared, with the local being 'early' for east coast, and 'late' for west coast.

I am also not an early riser, and as I live in the DC area (I seriously considered taking time off work to help with your renovation), I'd be thrilled with an 11-7 timeframe. In the DC area, this would probably also reduce my commute time to and from your facility by on the order of THREE HOURS.

What's the possibility of having a recorded class? As somebody in Pacific time that can't get up early because… Physiology I'd still pay and love to learn how to do a flipper. And I haven't been able to get my hands on one yet, so when I do… I'd love to be able to enjoy the class.

if it was a weekend class, I wouldn't need to take off work for it

Asking if it's a dumb idea is a thing not enough leadership people do. This isn't a dumb idea at all, though, and though it may be tricky to decide the timing, I think it's just another chance for more people to see your classes that otherwise might not have made it. On a personal project-related note, I've been trying to pick someone's brain that happens to be experienced in both Raspi and Proxmark3. I made a cyberdeck that worked for a while, but then my proxmark died when the usb connection broke. New proxmark3 units aren't just swapping out like I thought they should.

Maybe in person setup help for the first hour of each day, and simulcast the more unique and novel parts in the middle. Then some more exercises that are repeatable (but not essential?) something like “reading the manual” that VA does early and LV does late in the day.

"That ain't the way...fricken...the sun works" legit cracked me up.

OMG yes please!! I have a Flipper (currently training in penn testing) and still covid conscious. I would ABSOLUTELY do a remote class! I just discovered your channel and I'm hooked!

Seems like a good idea. My suggestion would be to have beginner classes aimed at non-professionals on the weekend (Saturday 9a Pacific/noon Eastern to 1pm/4pm half-day Flipper intro?) and professional classes - more advanced - during the week during business hours - 9-5 in a given time zone, join the class that most aligns with your schedule. I’ve looked at some RTA classes and frankly for where I am at - as someone who is an infosec professional but doesn’t do pentesting, is “good” but not expert with Proxmark, Flipper, etc - I’d love to have a ‘Babik’s Advanced Class” or the like. Or is THAT dumb, and maybe I just need to buy him a few beers at a con sometime? :D

I think it would be a great experiment. I'm a New England guy , getting to Vegas would be tough, but a trip to DC is much easier, so it would be something I would be interested in in the coming months and years

Something to consider: is there a 3-4 hour chunk that could be done out of the usual order? for example, the VA folks are learning about chunk "B" from 8 to 11, then everyone does "A" together, and then the NV folks learn chunk "B" after the VA group is done for the day?

from a business standpoint... 1 teacher who can teach double the amount of people and a few people to help practicals.. sounds like a win.

I think it's a good idea. Like you said, most professional training starts at 8. So I'm used to starting at 8. But, and hear me out... Another crazy dumb idea, what about staggered start? East coast starts at 9 EST and does a couple things in the first hours, then west coast joins. Simulcast class does their curriculum in parallel, then as east coast drops off, west coast loops back and covers whatever the east did in the morning hours.

I've presented and had to attend "simulcast" training and by far, the best solution is to pick one and go with it. People will attend regardless.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but if you typically provide a lunch break, that could turn into a headache very quickly.

See what other learning institutions do for multi classroom telepresence. On the timezone spit some hands on sections that can be run at one location at the start and at the end at the other, now the main block can be run without getting up at early o'c.

Simulcast would be a great idea. I'm too far from Vegas to comfortably get there and back in a weekend, but Virginia I could pull off.

It's a lot easier to convince the boss that you should attend a remote class then it is to convince the boss to fly you to VA.

flipper is just now starting to break through as something more than a 'clone and replay' tool. I've been using it for a few months, and the advances that have been coming are bringing a whole different world with it.

That's not at all a bad plan. Obviously it depends on who would attend in both sites but I think for the value people couldn't really argue.

I would love to attend one of those classes. However i'm european. And there is no way i can afford these classes.

This is a great idea, also there's so many different ways you can do this and it still be interactive.

We continually try to balance large differences in multiple time zones for our events. It always sucks for somebody. Just recognize it for what it is and since this a voluntary sign up, know if they want it bad enough they would be there ant any hour.

One solution might be to run more days but shorter. A 2-day course could run over 3 days, 9-3 PT and 12-6 ET, and neither side has particularly obnoxious hours.

(recently interested in RFID access control, SDR, etc... that sounds interesting. Looks at RTA website, finds classes. PPBT! Whoa, I didn't realize how expensive they are!) That's about a college chemistry class with lab, 4 credit hours -> 3 lecture hours, 1 lab hour per week for a semester. I'm not complaining, hopefully you're providing folks with the value, just didn't realize how much money it cost. Oh well. No opinion then on your idea, it's not feasible for me any way about it.

I took that last PACS + Flipper class you ran. I thought it was very good, but I did it virtually, from the east coast, which meant I was noon to 8pm. While I admit I was a little irritated I couldn't find the time zone anywhere in the lead up and mailings, it certainly was within my abilities and schedule. I suspect many people on the east coast would be able to do 11-7, or 12-8. so, I can't guarantee it's a good idea, but to me A.) it certainly seems worth trying and B.) I kinda feel like you already tested some of the more difficult aspects of it.

I've seen this done well, and I've seen it done badly. When it was done well, the classrooms had enterprise-grade video conferencing kit. Area mics hanging from the ceiling, boundary mics on the tables, PTZ cameras that followed the speaker, two projectors - one for the presentation and one for the other classroom... Done cheap, it is somewhere between tolerable and bad. Given that these are paying punters, you want to avoid bad.

You could do half the day hybrid, the other half local. That should solve the time zone issue while still providing some benefit.

Making some assumptions about project work here… 8-4 in LV. 9-5 in VA. 6 hours of overlap. Use overlapping hours in sync over Zoom, let folks do site-based instruction in non-overlapping hours (like practice and projects?). Find 2 hours of material that fits anywhere. Vegas gets that the last day, Virginia the first. LV does their project work at the end of the day, VA does it the following morning to stay in sync.

For what it's worth, yes the 11 am class and staying till after dinner to miss the rush hour sounds good. Would be be able to come in around 9 am for coffee ? We do like talking to each other. That said, a sample size of one does not work. Lets see what happens.

all i would say about this is actually walk through an entire class for the whole duration before you run one, because your tech will be solid enough that the only issue will emerge when things that are working are conflicting with each other, and I don't know how else you could root those out. I think the time-zone thing is a non-issue honestly, I don't see anyone complaining about getting to start at 11 if they were on the east coast, and nobody would mind leaving early if they were on the west. i think that your problem will actually be the same as with the navy - things working until suddenly they do not and even a simple fix would impinge on hitting all the content cause you don't have time to spare anymore

As someone who has lived in Hawaii for 23 years I understand the time zone problem. I am very used to dealing with Pacific Time Zone as my starting time. I think lots of people would understand this also as most jobs deal with different time zones now. So I say doing something based off PST and EST wouldn't be a problem for most. I'd get up to do it.

I'd be disappointment I couldn't make it to the main meeting but still thrilled if I could attend a virtual meeting in a classroom full of other people and the gear to do the labs. On a side note I'm very active in the Flipper community and I COMMEND Flipper Inc for getting people interested in electronics, coding, and security. I really didn't see the interest in electronics as a potential side effect of Flipper but it's genuine. People want to build accessories for Flipper and that's great in my book. Side note to a side note: In the US are people seeing ibuttons in the wild and where are they seeing them?

In 2005 I moved from the bay area to Pittsburgh after living in the bay area for over a decade. More than happy to do EST training times starting around lunch and ending around dinner.

I have my doubts. I used to teach a class that looked just like the clip in this segment, prox access. In my case I got people from around the country (different time zones) and they had to conform to my schedule. Some were late on day one because they booked the flight for that morning and were delayed and some had to leave early on Friday because of a flight. Allowing people to be close to their time zone, like when I travel to do the class, gives better results. So it might work, iff the east coast is willing to stay past dinner time. They might if they know before hand and the boss does not expect them to be at work at the normal 8:00 and put in 3 hours work. I have done enough Zoom seminars to know that trying to interrupt the instructor remotely is an issue. You will need full staff at both locations.

Going late in VA is going to cause Feds to work outside their normal business hours. That might not fly with some agencies.

The fun factor is the one thing making it not-dumb. "I get to play with Flipper on company time if I convince my boss to let me come in early - and I'll either leave late or get a few more hours." That sounds like a great deal. If the class is "tax code updates and their impact on operations," ugh, where is my resume?

We (the Government) do conference calls at 0900 Central routinely. That puts the time in a reasonable range for East coast and West coast participants.

If you have something people want, they will come. It seems the issue is getting the instructors to turn up

"if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid" if you go by that, then this isn't stupid

I'm not the best to ask, since my sleep schedule is not beholden to the sky fire ball, but I think a simulcast event could just be stupid enough to work.

I think the early start or late finish might be a good thing to increase the quality of the students. From my PoV, if someone can't be bothered to get up and show up at 8am or thinks giving up an hour or two down the bar in the evening isn't worth what they're going to get from the course, they don't seem committed or enthusiastic enough about the topic to bring their best contribution to the class

as a night owl and east coaster I'd love a class that started later around 11am to noon. My problem is getting my employer to sign off on sending me to a class.

Back in 2015 I was able to go to the Hak5 red team training and loved it. Would love to see a flipper class also. We should be able to go to either Vegas or VA so that's a draw. Being in Mississippi it would be VA being closer though.

Not a stupid idea, I'd love to join a virtual weekend flipper class. While I'm a night owl by nature and live on the pacific coast an early-ish (6am-7am) start time would not deter my participation.

Flipper class sounds like a lot of fun!

Some of us do this every day. I live in AZ but work with folks primarily on the East coast. I start my day at 6:00 AM to align with their 9:00 AM start time. Don’t love it, but I do it.

Well, I live in Alaska, so everything is early here when we gotta match the rest of the country (except Hawaii) lol.

Behold the turtle. Makes no progress until he sticks his neck out. I'd say go for it, evaluate later.

Aussie here, I would join a virtual flipper class in a heartbeat without question if the time differences worked out.

The other alternative is to have a two or three hour module that can be tacked onto the start (for EST) or the end (for PST) and be taught locally. I know this breaks most of the advantage of the two sites. Otherwise, run the class at 8AM PST. Let the East coast people have a late start.

I like the be good and be a good person! Best advice ever..... listen to this man. 😊

Half of the team I work with every day is Eastern and the other half is Pacific. If you ran it like 12-4 west coast and provided lunch before, that would be 3-7 east coast, where you could also provide dinner after, that is probably the ideal way to do it for at least my type of people. Reason being that nobody on either end has unmeetable expectations. If you said 10 west coast, then the east coasters might anticipate being able to be home around dinner time, and will have checked themselves out of the session early because they want to beat traffic. If you said 8 west coast, then people are going to roll in late and be too damn sleepy to be useful, while the east coast has an ideal time slot. The downside is that the east coast has to be prepared for a later than usual night, but I don't think that's avoidable without making west coasters wake up hours earlier, and that will affect participants way more often than something like childcare responsibilities. You also make it a lot easier for central time to join, and open the possibility of someone waking up early in Hawaii and joining from that time zone, where starting any earlier prevents that.

I'd take a Flipper class, and yes I think that's a reasonable time to accommodate simulcast.

Where does one obtain a flipper from a supplier in the states since Amazon dropped it from their sales.

I could teach myself the Flipper, much as I did SFIC, but attending a class would shorten that learning cycle dramatically.

I would use vacation to uproot my sleep rhythm, I could save for the classes, but I would never be able to save for flights + hotel. And I would not justify flying (CO2) just for that, and I can not afford a longer stay abroad.