every 2 days, 9 times. 16 days between the first and last treatment. Drone brood is capped for 15 days. Good results. 2 gram dose

No. Never.

I am going to use OA dribble method next week....this is standard winter procedure against varroa mite and has high efficiency so we start next season with low number mites and all problems with varoa mite starts later in the season.

I use OA as a vaporisation and as a strip and have good results, what I would like to know is regards to the amount of colonies tested and how close together they are ??? If large amounts are in one area I would say mites could transfer from one to the other, I am a great believer in not over populating sites with my apiaries having a max of 16 through winter and 12 through the season

I agree with your statements 100%. We have been treating our bees with vaporized OA at 190 degrees C for 4 years. Nothing else. We had a 5% lose one year and zero losses every other year. We use 3 grams per box (use screened bottom boards so some lost through BBs) and treat every 3 or 4 days until our mite kill on the sticky boards is zero or almost zero.

Bingo! I just use 2 g.

The issue is that 1g/10 frames has been repeatedly shown to be ineffective. 4g/10 frames has been shown to be effective in a few different studies. I believe the earliest one was around 2013. However, there has been no attempt to get approval for the 4g dosage; and the only APPROVED, LEGAL dosage is still only 1g. So 1g is not effective. And the fact that 4g is not legal and has no attempt to become legal, would lead me to believe that 4g is not safe and has adverse side effects. For anyone who doesn't understand how things work when dealing with toxic chemicals, this is the manufacturers CYOA. Sure everybody can just start using 4g. But that is an improper and illegal misuse of the product. Therefore, WHEN the proof comes out of the long term harm and detrimental side effects comes to light, they have a "get out if every class action lawsuit free" card if "so what you're saying is an illegal misuse of our product at a higher than recommended dosage is what's killed your livestock. Lol okay. Bye". See how that works? And yes. There are already documented adverse side effects to the bees are the microbiological, immune, and reproductive levels. Even though everything will tell you there aren't, there have been studies in Poland, China and a couple others, that have shown deleterious effect. Of course, you have to dig and dig to find those studies, as Google will typically hide what their sponsors don't want you to see. How many colonies get treated with OA? Now how much does it cost if you're using one of the APPROVED supplies? I've heard people say "oh I can get a 50lb bag through this or that supply and it'll last almost a lifetime" again we go back to the work APPROVED. Last I checked, there were onky 2 approved commercial OA products for bees that are manufactured by the same companies. So using from an unapproved source isn't legal use of the product. Although one place where one can get a better scope of potential side effects and negative impacts of any chemical or pharmaceutical is the product SDS. They can try to make the truth confusing with a battery of legalese. But when it comes down to it, they cannot lie, and being too intentionally obtuse or evasive could poke holes in the CYOA of the SDS. Meaning if there is any falsehood or intentionally withheld information from the SDS, it leaves them open and vulnerable to any future legal ramifications, that may arise from health deficits or complications caused by use of the product. Which is why one should always read every SDS for every chemical product in its entirety, and fully understand it.

Yep I run it ever 3 or 4 days, 5 tops plus brood break, I like the condition of my mite levels this year. My OA and Vaporization methods have worked well for me this season. They only used 1 gram every 5 days, in my opinion their experiment was to confined. 🤔The biggest problem I see with many of the studies/experiments, they narrow the parameters to much or only run 1 to a few sets of parameters. 🤨We just🤔find what works 😮‍💨adjust to random circumstances🥴and roll🙃with it.😂

Is anyrhing over 1g a legal and proper approved usage of the product, in accordance with manufacturer and label directions? If not, why has 4g not been approved as a legal, on label, proper use option of the product? The important questions everyone should be asking.

Once you start digging into research... a colony naturally has at least 2 brood breaks per year, even if the colony doesn't swarm. It has a long brood break in winter, and a short one during the summer dearth, when forage availability is low, and they have a brief pause in brood rearing to conserve food stores for the coming winter, before picking back up as more forage becomes available. Then, there are swarms. When a colony swarms, it doesn't split by taking frames of brood and half the bees to make a new colony. It makes queen cells, ejects the laying queen with around 65% of the bees; those bees go to establish another colony and the already established colony gets about 4 weeks (funny how many things coincide with 28 days. Menstrual cycles, lunar cycles, and the average time it takes for a colony to get a new laying queen) while the new queen emerges, matures, mates, matures more, then begins laying. But aside from natural brood breaks, there the environmental factors, completely regardless of genetic factors. I was reading an essay from around 2010 by Ralph Büchler on varroa resistance in wild vee populations in Europe. In it it mentions that some colonies that were being tracked were surviving around 7-8 years without showing signs of die out, and one survived 15 years without a lapse in activity. So they caught a few swarms from some of these survivor colonies, confirmed the presence of varroa, made splits, took them out to some island to submit them to The Bond Test and all colonies failed absolutely miserably. Even less survivability than the previous colonies that has already been placed there. So what changed? The genetics wouldn't have changed that much. Especially in regards to the colonies that had the mother queens from the caught swarms. What changed was the hives and the treatment. With the new UBeeO technology, it's been proven that the bees don't seem to be able to detect the varroa, so much as the olfactory scent markers given off by unhealthy brood, or stressed hive mates. So how does smoke interfere with their ability to detect the unhealthy brood or stressed hive mates and the pheremones or olfactory markers? What about opening the hive weekly, and thus destroying the atmospheric microclimate, which further interferes with the scents inside the hive? What about top vents? From various studies, we find that the high ventilation that's implemented in hives isn't natural to a natural hive, which will have one entrance and seal all other cracks, crevices and openings. What about insulation and humidity? Derek Mitchell shows how the humidity reduces mite reproduction. In a closed atmosphere of a natural hive, the bees would have better control over the humidity and be able to keep it higher than in a higher ventillation and low insulation environment. There's also CO² concentrations. While the CO² within a hive will never reach the level of having a significant impact on mite fecundity, it's been shown that CO² does have a small impact on mite reproduction. However, with a careened bottom board, that CO² just falls out the bottom. And another study shows that under various levels of forced ventilation, the bees work harder to produce more CO², to maintain the hive microclimate between 1.1% and 1.5% CO²... if the bees are working harder to try and constantly produce more CO², they're burning honey to do so. Same as if they're trying to maintain temperature in a hive that's essentially an oven sitting in direct sunlight (thing of a solar wax meter. Wax melts around 180F... the bees like an environment that's roughly HALF that temperature. Bees are native to a forest environment. Their natural home is in tree hollows, where they would be in shade. They also prefer disciduous trees that shed leaves during winter. But then there's also VOC (volatile organic compounds) that are constantly breaking free from the nectar. In a natural setting, those compounds will be circulated through the brood chamber to supply moisture and humidity to the brood (larva is around 65% moisture, adult bees around 65% moisture and nectar happens to be an average of about 70% moisture). Something coincidental... bees LOVE members of the mint family. And other insects tend to HATE members of the mint family. Then you've also got the tree that bees select. When looking at trees that bees are found in, walnut and oak seem to be very common. Coincidentally, walnut contains Juglone which is toxic and an effective antiparasitic. Oak also has some antimicrobial and antiparasitic properties. I personally believe nature has had this all figured out and been ahead of the curve. We just lack the understanding to let it do what it dies to balance itself out. We micromismanage what we want it to do, with out taking the time to observe what it does, and question the why behind the how. Without our "help" many colonies would die. Yes. But as Seeley says "that is sad. But very necessary for the species". That's how evolution and adaptation works. Let's look at things this way. You get 2 colonies, make 1 split per colony per year with a 100% survival rate. In 10 years, those 2 colonies become 2,048 colonies. Now... lets gloss past the fact that with habitat loss/destruction and city codes that dictate picture perfect poisoned lawns... that amount of colonnies in 1 area would likely be unsustainable... instead let's ask ourselves "what if every beekeeper had 100% colony survival?" Next, "what if every beekeeper had 100% colony survival and 3/4 were pollution to the gene pool because they weren't meant to survive?" The result would be the inevitable collapse oof the species and extinction.

Very interesting. Could you provide more details about the spraying process(pop the lid and soak, or must brood frames be sprayed, etc). Is distilled water a must? Are your handmade strips soaked in 50% glycerin/50% OA? Thank you for replying. I was glad to hear from someone who has been using OA for over 20 years.

Handmade strips soaked in 50/50 Glyc/acid, correct@@MerrittHoney

Yeap, It seems like a trial designed to fail.

I've come across a couple different studies. It actualky kills off many of the good bacteria that are the workhorses of the bees immune and digestive systems and lead to long term susceptibility to disease. As with pretty much any other treatment. For every action is an equal and opposite reaction. And all of nature is a very delicate balance down to the microbiological level. Any time we tip the scales based on one aspect, we tip the other end and cause undesired reactions on another end. We need to consider what's on that other end before putting our fingers into things. The LABs and Acetobacters that are killed by the Oxalic acid produce Lactic acid and Acedic acid (and people say apple cider vinegar has no benefit to the bees. The bees literally mix unused nectar with pollen to get these bacterias to ferment it. As the larva need these bacteria in their gut just to be able to digest and metabolize anything they consume) which help fight pathogenic microorganisms, bolster the immune system and ingress immune gene expression. The bees have a much more simplified digestive system and immune system than we do. And even we are very heavily dependant on good gut microbial for digestion, metabolism, immune support, and general health. All disease begins in the gut. And it's usually linked to a damaged or missing gut microbial constituent. Lactose intolerance, diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, anemia, kidney stones, a handful of hor oral imbalance related disease and a handful of neurodegenerative diseases can all be linked to a lack of E.Coli bacteria in the gut. With over 1500 different strains of E.Coli, most are beneficial with only very small handful being linked to food poisoning or ill effects. In fact a majority of E.Coli related food poisoning cna be linked to only 3 specific strains. So how are these chemicals negatively affecting the microbial ecology within the colony. Either at the hive level, or the individual level? What manner of viral or pathogenic microbial susceptibility is caused long term, due to long term exposure of the colony to these chemicals, that kill off the beneficial microbes? Just like if you were to remove 1 species from an ecosystem, you can completely disrupt the balance, causing one other species to breed and reproduce beyond sustainable levels, and eventually lead to the destruction of the ecosystem... microbial ecology is very much the same. If you kill off this group of microbes, as a side effect of a product intended to target this other organism, you create a vaccine where a more virulent organism can grow out of control. Candida albicans is a necessary gut bacteria that is notorious for growing out of control, hijacking hormones to cause cravings that feed itself, and if it grows strong enough, or makes it outside of the intestines and into the blood stream, can wreak havoc through the body and cause inflammation, infection, eczema, etc other places in the body. And that's an example of a "good" yeast/fungi organism that gets out of control. What about when IA kills off too many of the good bacteria, making way for one of the foul brood organism? Or the nosema fungi? Or the chalk brood fungi? The very same lactic acid bacteria, bifidobacterium and acetobacters that die as a result of OA exposure, are also the bacteria that fight against these pathogenic microorganism that cause other diseases in bees. Varroa isn't nearly as harmful as the chemicals. Or the habitat loss caused by other chemicals. 70-100 million years of surviving, thriving, adapting, etc... the bees have left wort things on the evolutionary roadside that we were never around to see, and likely will never know about. They've lived through comets, ice age a, mass extinction events, floods, fires, global warming, polar shifts, etc. But they weren't in decline or threatened until Monsanto showed up. Around 70% of all the endangered species are aquatic life or other species that depend on a semi-aquatic habitat. And they tell us it's from "rising carbon levels in the water from exhaust"... bullshit. It's from that round up sprayed on the river banks, the fertilizer spread on golf courses and lawns... it's chemical. But what do we turn to for the solution to everything? Chemicals. It's insanity.

Yes. I was thinking more about deformed wing and other viruses that negatively affect the bees. I’m sure it’s bacteriocidal to some extent. But no worries, now they can sell probiotics. Lol.

@@CrazyIvan865 The real question is , why hasnt researchers stated what you just said , as to me ,that type of long term thinking is the best way,

4gram oxal sublimation!?

@@AndrasAndrasi-yc2bm absolutely!

I personally don't like the idea of throwing more treatment at the problem, what if in 5 years time 2g suddenly becomes insufficient. In my country we collectively decided to not treat and now have a bee that manages the mites on its own. While I understand that this might not be possible for most beekeepers I strongly believe that it is the way to go

1g is not good like 4g ....for profit 😎