For sure. Limited run collaboration with desired bag maker to get the ball rolling (using all their resources in exchange for your brand and audience) with an existing bag except with some sort of change/upgrade added in? You have an audience so it would be a win for all involved. Of course main focus, Innovation and PLP brand building at first... Probably not a ton of money to be had starting out but anything made is a win. That foot in the door would be the real value which does always turn to having what you need financially. Totally doable. I'd support a PLP special Edition saddle bag or apparel collab 😉✌🏼

Yeah the perfect bag would be a baby between the two.

@@PathLessPedaledTV Without having both bags in my hands, I have to think the internal dowel would actually make a stiffer bag when loaded - the dowel is supporting the entire bag/weight while on this version of the Zeitgeist the bag is stitched around the baton which is then strapped to the bars/saddle. Seems like it could be a bit droopier? Yes I'm nerding out but 1) I hate a droopy bag and 2) Aren't we all here to nerd out?

I think the outer batten on the Swift is pretty supportive. The material in the BXB bag is overall a little stiffer.

@@PathLessPedaledTV Sounds good, I also like the addition of the internal compression strap on the new Zeitgeist - that makes a lot of sense. Hoping the cinch cord on the Goldback functions similarly. Ordered my Goldback with an X-Pac liner as that further increases the structure of the bag. So many nice options these days!

Straps are green Voile. Spacers came off another bag.

Outer shell and I think a couple other companies sell the spacers separately. www.outershelladventure.com/shop/foam-spacer

Domenico Natoli agreed

got the Roadrunner Jammer bag for xmas (standard size). it's double strap system makes for a super secure attachment. that bag hardly oves. that said, the strapping also ties up more space on the handlebars. like the bag reviewed here by Russ, the Jammer could use some spacers to push it away from the cockpit. and like Russ's review, an elastic cord around the headtube would be better than the stock strap and buckle system it comes with. but the good news, it looks spacers and cords can be added to the jammer bag (you would need longer straps if using spacers. stock ones are pretty short). the Jammer bag has nice structure and the two from pockets are covered by a velcro flap. I also liked how I am still able to have a garmin on an "out front" mount while running this bag.

46cm. Yes.

Ha. I'll do a review, if you help respond to all the OMG $200 comments that inevitably come up.

@@PathLessPedaledTV OMG $200???!!!

Prob meant a batten.

A baton is a this cylinder , what's not to get .

@@splashpit it's like batten down the hatches, or sail batten, or blind batten; it's like further and farther -- similar but not the same.

For the handlebars it’s not an issue. BXB recommends routing it internally for the saddle which is a PITA.

They work fine with a suspension stem. Haven’t had any issues.

There is an plastic stiffener.

I wouldn’t do that. You really need a dowel or something to hold up the bag. I don’t think the seams at the D ring were designed for that.

Path Less Pedaled Here what I am referring too. They’re using the d-rings to provide additional support to the bag. createfolly.co/review-swift-industries-zeitgeist-touring-saddle-bag/

Yes. If you’re short it won’t work for you.

The rubber straps are voile straps specifically made for snow shoe bindings. I’d assume they can take some cold.

@@PathLessPedaledTV this is really great news then! I can't wait til mine shows up :)

Depends on you saddle to tire clearance. Would use the Erlen rack from Ocean Air Cycles.

I can’t. I have short legs and require a support.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail_batten

Off a rando rack or off a fork leg.

They're bigger, expandable and don't need hardware for each bike you're going to put it on.

@@PathLessPedaledTV Good points, I can see this bag being good for a weekender, or a shortish trip.

Andrew the Maker

@@PathLessPedaledTV Awesome! Thanks!

Doesn’t ship with one.

I don’t. Depends on your hbar to tire clearance though.

Depends on headtube height. Eg: My Ti bike has a relatively short headtube even though quite a high stack measurement, which allows for great standover height (yay!) However this means I have to strap up a handlebar bag because otherwise if it sags it'll hit the tyre (nay!)

I didn’t have enough tire clearance to run it as a saddle bag without a support.

REI

Citizen Promaster.

Path Less Pedaled excellent. I love divers on NATO straps! Wearing a Seiko SKX on a Bond NATO.

Yup

Goes through saddle loops.

You’ve uncovered the great saddle bag conspiracy. 👏. It works fine on the saddle. I use it primarily on the handlebar because it’s easier to get things there while riding.

Not have kids, a fancy car or have debt..

@@PathLessPedaledTV I do all those things as well and never eat out (which is veryvery expensive) but I still cant ride like that... Power to ya I guess. You live in an affordable city? I live in crap hole Tucson and single and its affordable I guess.

Ha. Currently in Tucson for the next two weeks.

@@PathLessPedaledTV Nice. I saw your video of the national park. Its beautiful in the desert but no doubt you have been in the city to experience the crumbling infrastructure, worst roads in north america, poverty and some of the most dangerous drivers in the country. Sure the loop is nice but the rest is garbage.

MsRotorwings I got last years model at REI on sale now.

Not cheap, but they are a relatively low volume, boutique manufacturer. Definitely an investment piece that will last many years.That said, not everyone can justify the expense.

1) Cost. People are already balking at the price of the bag and now you're asking them to buy expensive hard to pronounce French sounding supports that many bike shops don't know what to do with. 2) Compatibility, lots of bikes don't have forks that work with a rando rack or any front rack. Many bikes ship with carbon forks and most of those forks discourage using any kind of front platform rack. 3) the Carradice bagman sort of sucks. Lets be honest. It's rattlyAF. It requires a fairly high saddle to tire clearance 4) times change. Sure it was initially designed to be used on the back. So what? People found how to use it another way. Also, if you look through the Rough Stuff Fellowship photos, quite a few were running their Carradice in this new fangled way. 5) Yes. Carradice has been idle. They haven't done anything to address how people are currently using their "saddle" bags. Instead they came out with wax canvas bike packing bags. www.carradice.co.uk/83-blog/blog-articles/122-bikepacking-road-test

@@PathLessPedaledTV 1) Cost: @US$200+ Swift Industry vs US$60 for a Carradice made in the UK, I think there's plenty of headroom for a mini rack which does not have to be done as Nitto's at nitto's prices. 2) Compatibility. You have repeatedly praised bike vendors who add all sorts of eyelets for the new bikepacking gear (including some totally new and custom (non standard) fastening devices on the top tube). That never posed a cost problem to those makers nor to you. Adding mounts for a mini rack would not be harder than adding cargo cage mounts on a fork. If market wanted it, builders'd do it, because it costs them next to nothing. 3) Agreed that the bagman only exists for solving a design flaw with large saddle bags. A small, light rear rack is just so much better and now many bikes do have the mounts, (surprisingly, when almost none had them 10 years ago (barring dedicated touring bikes)). 4) Using saddle bags in the front: you misunderstood me. Use your bags whichever way you want: that's fine with me of course. The point being: saddle bags in the front with loops being too near the handlebar is a consequence of their original design. You solved it by adding a "spacer" to let you hold your bar near the stem, and the French constructeurs solved it by inventing the decaleur, which is much better IMO. Both demonstrate the benefit of the "French way" with handlebar bags over the brittish way: saddle bags. If it weren't the case, those early british Rough Stuff fellows would have kept their bags underneath their saddle where they were designed to be, not up front on the handle bar. 5) Carradice today: the link you provide shows cordura bags, not waxed cotton. But you made no comment on the Klickfix handllebar fastening device. Sure it looks like a touring or city bike appendix which will instantly put off bikepacking fellows. But it is very functional... Bottom line: seeing that $250 bags such as the Swift Industry sell like hot cakes clearly demonstrates that there is more to buying a bike bag than function. As many French companies selling ladies' bags with price tags well over $5000 could attest. At least Louis Vuitton readily accepts they're selling fashion items and in than space, price is not a "non issue", it is part of the product and part of what people want. I think it would be much simpler if you and others like you admited their infatuation with bike bags as other fashion victims for their LV bags (although for a 1/20th of the price!!). Good on you! I don't have a problem at all with that. Arguments are rare about fashion because it is understood by everyone that buying fashion items is a personal thing with no rationale in it. The issue I have with most bikepackers (not necessarily you, by the way) is they always present their choices and their aversion to racks and touring solutions as argumented "good reasons" to justify. Like saying that adding a mini rack or decaleur would add price to a $250 synthetic bag with a few webbing straps sawn onto it.;-) By the way I love your channel. It is the best for non competition cycling and love your style. I don't need to agree to appreciate.

@@tve1964 1) where are these magical $60 Carradice bags? 2)I select bikes to review which have the mounts. In reality, they are actually the minority and why I make a big fuss about them. Not to mention a mini front rack and decaleur won't work on mountain bikes which many people use with these bikes as well. 4) decaleurs are a super PITA to pronounce much less install for the average person. How many people would be comfortable putting two holes into a brand new expensive bag? While not as elegant, it works and is easier. 5). I am not a fan of the Klikfix adaptor. I hate the anti slip wire mounting which always crushes the wire and is a PITA when you have to remove and install it. I do lots of things with the same bike and it is much easier to just undo 2 voile straps. Also, IME it puts the load up too high. I've owned a few Ortliebs and even a Carradice Keswick and with the high mounting point it makes the front end flop like a fish. 6). I wouldn't quite put Swift there with a LV. While expensive, they are not luxury brand expensive. They are based in Seattle, one of the most expensive cities in the US to live. They source their materials in the US which gets expensive. They don't have the economies of scale of an overseas manufacturer or probably even Carradice for that matter.

@@PathLessPedaledTV 1) "Magical" (did I use this word?) Carradice bag can be found following your link to Carradice web site. 2) The mounts were "invented" to provide an overall solution to a problem: efficiently transporting gear on a bike. It is the case now just as it was back 50 or 80 years ago by the French and Brittish (among others), in slightly different ways. Back then, traveling by bike meant riding on "all roads", gearing was poor but they had the same problems we have now. Ease of use, weight, confort, etc. They started with rackless bags but found more adequate to invent the racks and other devices such as decaleurs to solve real problems. Same with Bikepacking for MTBs. Riding off road with suspension bikes etc. commanded other solutions than racks and panniers for reasons you and I and everyone knows. It was a trade-off for good reasons. Now to gravel bikes. They are actually modern randonneur bikes, whether you like it or not. As you venture now more often off road, you start to discover MTB as I (and many others) were doing it 30 years ago. But a gravel bike is IMHO not an MTB by today's standards. There is NO reason to cope with the inconvenients of bikepacking gear which are a necessity for current MTB when proven solutions exist and could very well be improved upon with what was learnt and invented since. Gravel bikes with mounts may be few but they now exist. Nothing existed before aside from touring bikes. And Decathlon, a huge sports retailer in the World (but not Americas) designs and sells now quality sub $1000 road bikes for non competition cycling (supple life) that have the mounts for low riders and rear racks (and wider tires). No-one could have imagined this even 5 years ago. You are part of it all and it ain't going away. Folks want a decently priced road bike that can be taken on dirt roads as well as non manicured black topped. They want to be able to carry stuff when they go out camping on the week-end. They don't care if Tour de France bikes are different now. All this to say that people want practical solutions to real problems and these solutions are a combination of tried and tested + innovation. By discarding decaleurs and racks as viable solutions the way you do, you behave exactly like those who sold road bikes with 700x23 mm and looked at me weirdly because I wanted a bike with 700x28 or 700x32 with fenders 5 years ago. They made fun of me because the only thing available was "road bikes" (or city bikes). Just like now you say: "it's hard to get bikes with mounts, let alone decaleurs or mini racks"! Yes, I understand you have to make do with what is real and available. But you did moan against the vendors for their standard gearing not being adequate to your style of riding; and now there are options! Things changed and they will again. You will see that improved front bags will come around and those improvement will be often following the same path that our predecessors have treaded. Already the Swift industry bag you review has added a feature you like: the stiff bar to which your Voilé straps are tied (Voilé, another French-sounding name which seems not a PITA, this time ;-). It is an improved version of the French rando bags designed to work with decaleurs. You're being ironic about punching holes in expensive bags. No need to be. Without much change or work, these holes could be added to the design, just like slots have been cut for the straps. If only one recognized that a decaleur is a good solution to a real problem. No solution is perfect and all you write about Klickfix I can sympathize with. But contrary to you I accept those issues because of the benefits I find using them. For me and I think for a lot of people, strapping a saddle bag to my handlebar having to add "spacers" to have a somewhat limited space between my fingers and the bag is not my kind of compromise. I am CERTAIN if Swift Industries would use their skill and creativity to produce a nice bag to sit on a mini rack and a decaleur they could. They won't right now because the wave you guys are riding, bikepacking, has created an entire marketing hype against randoneuring style bags and it would be percieved as an own goal to come out with this. At least for now. [By the way, I don't know if you realize how much English is polluting our French language and so many others? So I'm not going to be sorry for you when you struggle to pronounce "décaleurs"]. And finally, I too make a difference between LV and Swift. Of course. But the very fact that Swift find customers happily paying $250 for a bag that is hand made in the most expensive city in the US shows that bags are equivalent, relatively, to LV purses for which an army of chinese ladies queue up (or used to) at the store to spend $5000. There are options to do the job and do it well for a quarter of the price of a Swift bag. But true, riding your bike with that kind of bag will put you in a different league as other riders for sure. I think it's great for those working at Swift, don't take me wrong. They rip off no-one. Good on them! Evryone does with their hard earned cash what they want.

@@tve1964 1) I don't see any equivalent saddlebag on the Carradice site for $60 US. 2) I don't know if you're aware but Swift makes bags that use a rando rack and decaleur, this just isn't one of them: builtbyswift.com/shop/ozette-v2-andonneur-bag/ 3) I have rando style bags which I have not put a decaleur on because I don't want to put holes in them because it is a PITA and because to transfer them from bike to bike would require the holes at different placements to sit properly on a rack.

That’s some deep Matrix stuff.