The coolest cars don’t have turbos anymore - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 15

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ISSIMI Official

ISSIMI Official

Күн бұрын

In the 1970s and 1980s, the hottest cars had turbochargers: things like the BMW 2002 Turbo, Saab 99 and 900 Turbo, and the 930 Porsche 911 Turbo were the pioneers. Then, supercars like the Ferrari 288 GTO and F40 changed our perception of what “fast” really meant.
But today, it’s the cars without the turbos that stand out - among others, the Porsche 911 GT3, the Ferrari 812 Superfast, the Lamborghini Huracan and Aventador. Today, na is the new turbo.
What happened? In this episode, Jason and Derek are all about the turbos - talking of their personal experience with turbocharged cars, from Derek’s 1991 Audi 200 Avant 20V Turbo Quattro to Jason’s childhood Saab 900 Turbo. They discuss how a turbocharger works, why it’s superior in some ways - and inferior in others. They also use the word stoichiometric.
And of course, discuss the origins of the Turbocharger - World War 2 planes, because Derek was there - and how military aircraft technology trickled down into consumer automobiles, first in the Oldsmobile Jetfire and Chevrolet Corvair Monza Turbo. 1980s turbos are appealing because of their on/off boost nature, but the lag was as frustrating as it was exhilarating. And without sufficient computer-controlled engine management, many of that era’s turbo engines grenaded. Hello, Lancia Delta Integrale - one of our favorite turbocharged cars, but one that’s prone to engine failure.
Is the turbo worth it? Jason says no. Derek says sometimes. But even he admits he hated his 930-chassis 911 Turbo. This makes Jason smile because he thinks turbos should be reserved for diesels and daily drivers.
The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on KZfaq alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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Пікірлер: 473
@Ficon
@Ficon 4 жыл бұрын
Adam Sandler really knows his cars. Great episode.
@temwananinkana3419
@temwananinkana3419 2 жыл бұрын
His name confuses me with the actor.
@BobbyDazzler888
@BobbyDazzler888 Жыл бұрын
Shampoo is better, i clean the hair. No conditioner is better, i leave the hair silky smooth.
@sptauto
@sptauto Жыл бұрын
@@BobbyDazzler888 Billy Madison. Nice.
@sajsingh2838
@sajsingh2838 Жыл бұрын
Lol
@amancalledjoe
@amancalledjoe 4 жыл бұрын
As an American, I must say your French and German accents are spot on
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
As a man of the world, I thank you. :)
@nathanwabre
@nathanwabre 4 жыл бұрын
As a Swiss guy I do think so too 👌🏻
@tamasszabo8824
@tamasszabo8824 4 жыл бұрын
@@JasonCammisa I sink ve need zis much fuel.
@Loothansa
@Loothansa 4 жыл бұрын
As a German I agree.
@mannyzapata680
@mannyzapata680 4 жыл бұрын
💀
@thetumanshow
@thetumanshow 4 жыл бұрын
Jason: “We can agree that turbo’s suck and blow.” Jason, you’re a genius.
@Nemoticon
@Nemoticon 3 жыл бұрын
Bart Simpson made this joke over 20 years ago.
@maldridge7630
@maldridge7630 2 жыл бұрын
in other words; he hates competition!
@benpenagonzales6014
@benpenagonzales6014 2 жыл бұрын
Suck, squeeze, bang, blow!
@zenzombie72
@zenzombie72 4 жыл бұрын
Surely a turbo is only good with a manual engine. "I'm not going to wait for the boost to come in half way through a corner... I'll change down and have it now, thanks" (Delta Integrale fan here)
@AnnatarTheMaia
@AnnatarTheMaia 2 жыл бұрын
Like he said, and I can confirm... diesels don't have this problem. Turbo + diesel -> match made in heaven. (My other car is supercharged.)
@mrnicktoyou
@mrnicktoyou 4 жыл бұрын
I have owned turbo cars when I was younger but I’m sticking to natural aspiration. It’s just more satisfying to have the na response. Agree with Camissa.
@MrTresto
@MrTresto Жыл бұрын
Except for the BMW B58 engine which is epic despite being a 3.0 twin scroll turbo inline 6. It's ridiculous. I has near zero lag, tons of torque at any rpm, can produce tons of power too, is versatile with a bunch of factory tunes between 300 and 400 hp (and aftermarket way over 600 without changing anything but the tune), barely any vibrations because an inline-6 is naturally balanced, it sounds good and ... it's actually really refined, very smooth turbine-like delivery too. I didn't know a turbo engine could be even close to being that good before I got a X3 M40i. I was coming from a big NA car, and had tried a bunch of turbo cars and hated them all. Not the B58...
@jose7777777777777777
@jose7777777777777777 4 жыл бұрын
I’ve come to the conclusion that Jason is a Honda guy that just bought a VW instead of a Honda.
@android175
@android175 4 жыл бұрын
Jose Fernandez Old honda
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
Oh jeez, THIS I want to hear. How, exactly, did you come to that conclusion?
@jose7777777777777777
@jose7777777777777777 4 жыл бұрын
JasonCammisa because that is what Honda people love haha. Instant throttle response, higher revs, linear powerbands… plus I believe VW and Honda people are interchangeable and it just depends on what they tried first.
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
@@jose7777777777777777 Ha - my theory is similar but slightly different. I think VW and Honda people are the same except for their tolerance for how often the car breaks. :)
@jose7777777777777777
@jose7777777777777777 4 жыл бұрын
JasonCammisa LOL I’m using that
@Tooshi3Tom
@Tooshi3Tom 4 жыл бұрын
You guys need a beverage sponsor. That table is empty!
@bbond302
@bbond302 4 жыл бұрын
Molson Canadian ?
@Kromer0
@Kromer0 4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agreed!
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
Could you IMAGINE how intolerable I'd be drunk?!
@kanadezosGT
@kanadezosGT 4 жыл бұрын
Or a fast food sponsorship!
@bbond302
@bbond302 4 жыл бұрын
@@JasonCammisa Tamhyphenscott may have an issue with it, but we certainly won't! 😂
@DoctorDARKSIDE
@DoctorDARKSIDE 4 жыл бұрын
Haven't even watched it yet, but the Delta in the thumbnail is certainly a favourite "clickbait".
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
WOOT! Y'all easy.
@mo-hammadabunaser1367
@mo-hammadabunaser1367 4 жыл бұрын
Great show and love the conversation! But would be cool if you put pictures of all the cars/engines you are talking about to make the video more interesting.
@JDsHouseofHobbies
@JDsHouseofHobbies 4 жыл бұрын
Yes! Please do an episode on Saab. I drove a brand new 900 Turbo and loved it. Unfortunately, I was just out of high school and couldn't afford it.
@snowcat3116
@snowcat3116 4 жыл бұрын
I could listen those two for hours and never get bored
@aygwm
@aygwm 4 жыл бұрын
1997 Jetta TDI. The painfully long turbo lag before the RIDONK wave of torque on boost is one of my favorite things about the car.
@tormave
@tormave 4 жыл бұрын
I just really like turbos. When I grew up everything cool was ”turbo”. I was poor with a naturally aspirated engine in my car, but a turbo button on my PC. I went to watch rallies, with the Group B cars whistling and banging at incomprehensible speed. The first Quattro rally drivers learned to slide around corners in a turbo car - you just never let the bloody revs drop so you’re on boost all the time. Rally cars have had turbos ever since, and they can still slide around corners. On ice. In 6th gear. Taking the corner flat while hitting the rev limiter. Like last weekend in Sweden: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lcqFmqmp19fFqY0.html
@partypat2528
@partypat2528 2 жыл бұрын
I love my built MK3 Supra in all of it's laggy greatness. I have an E46 M3 for when I want some NA goodness, but when my Supra rolls into boost violently with 456wtq, it feels like I'm going into hyperspace. That being said, it's a GT car, not a sports car, so it's fine.
@hi_tech_reptiles
@hi_tech_reptiles Жыл бұрын
I'm with you. Turbos get a lot of crap from people, especially content creators, but I love them and always will. For similar reasons. I love the sound of a blow off valve, and think many engines are only improved both sound and performance wise from turbs. Especially with modern ECUs, Turbos themselves etc.
@Boozna
@Boozna 4 жыл бұрын
Best episode yet! Instead of enjoying the drive, the chassis and happily work for the performance, people complain about “only” 200hp on ~1250kg BRZ/GT86, a car with an engine that has ~100hp/liter and does good fuel ecomony (even if the sound it’s far from the best na engines).
@Trendyflute
@Trendyflute 4 жыл бұрын
You guys have nailed the 911 Turbo here for sure (been a Porsche/911 fan for ages but the 911 Turbo has never been the one I wanted...to look at sometimes, sure, but not to own), and your typical mainstream eco-turbo is usually lame too, but I don't have any complaints against a hot hatch with a decent turbo 4; it's a good format that balances weight, cost, performance, economy, and packaging. I have no problem getting into a VW GTI, Focus ST, Veloster N or something like that and having a blast on a twisty road. (Totally biased because I loved my MkIV GTI 1.8T I had for 12 years; I drove the crap out of that thing on twisty roads and trackdays and the turbocharger didn't stop me from enjoying the hell out of that car)
@gtab6936
@gtab6936 4 жыл бұрын
I would love to get their thoughts on the C6 Z06 and where it ranks/if it’s on their radar at all. 7L N/A V8 w/ 505hp 470lb-ft torque. Good looks, incredible exhaust sound (ok LS-sewing-needle mechanical sound), relatively low production (29k), lightweight and RWD. Pretty fun formula
@Rltvader1
@Rltvader1 4 жыл бұрын
That right there is the only Corvette I would own. The best engine ever put in a vette
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
I do love me some LS7. And I liked the C6. The combo was good - the car is pretty intimidating at first, but actually doesn't try to kill you. And any pushrod V-8 that sounds that good and revs to 7k is A-Ok with me.
@HuyBui-do6xm
@HuyBui-do6xm 4 жыл бұрын
I owned two. Love them except for a few issues. My seat broke and occasionally it would recline on hard acceleration. The electronics would randomly fail, resulting in unplanned drifts. And the potential engine failure from poorly designed two piece valves that can fail. It’s like a $2500 fix, but make it $4500 for a headjob while it’s out anyway. (If you want more power) The C7 fixes all the issues.
@sanjaymehta6948
@sanjaymehta6948 4 жыл бұрын
Only thing more fun is when you destroke the LS7 and throw in a flat plane crank and rev it out to 8300 RPM, with an S2000 shaped torque curve. It's truly mental.
@brandonherrera2891
@brandonherrera2891 4 жыл бұрын
@@Rltvader1 c4 lt5 is the best vette engine, to me.
@nikhildrao227
@nikhildrao227 4 жыл бұрын
Best show ever
@domteewhy52
@domteewhy52 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for talking me out of a second turbocharged car. For now, I'll enjoy the foreplay you guys call "lag". Great video !!
@Kalepsis
@Kalepsis 4 жыл бұрын
I like the way Ferrari manages the boost in the California T and the Portofino. They made it feel very linear the way the V12s feel, just not quite as gloriously screamy. They drive very well, and I'm looking forward to trying out the SF90, as well.
@michaelharrison1093
@michaelharrison1093 4 жыл бұрын
Jason, You have made the same mistake that so many people in the industry make about engine temperature Vs air-fuel ratio. It is true that the stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1 is the correct ratio for a gasoline engine. However under load engines are not fed with 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio. Under load a traditional designed ICE is supplied with a rich air-fuel ratio. The extra fuel is used to keep the combustion temperatures down - the latent heat of vaporization of the fuel absorbs the heat caused by combustion. So if you lean out the air-fuel ratio that is used under load so that it becomes 'less rich' you will find that the combustion temperature does increase. The point here is that the engine is still technically running rich on the basis of having more fuel than the 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio. If you keep on leaning out the air-fuel ratio under load to make the engine run 'less rich' then you find that the less rich it runs the higher the combustion temperature. And at the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1 the combustion temperature will be at the maximum. If you then lean out the mixture even more so than it is now technically running lean then you will find that the combustion temperatures actually start to go down.
@Turshin
@Turshin 4 жыл бұрын
They get a lot of things wrong on this show. One show they said Americans dont buy wagons anymore. The Suburban is a station wagon and GM sales 1000s each year.
@andrea7693
@andrea7693 4 жыл бұрын
Pretty much you've said everything, there's a great video done by Engineering Explained that covers this exact topic in great detail: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rMmXoKh8zamqhKc.html
@jmoo876
@jmoo876 4 жыл бұрын
I’ve had my 08 911 turbo for a year now. It’s my first turbo car ever and I love the sound, especially with all the bolt on mods I’ve done 😆.
@kuervers03
@kuervers03 4 жыл бұрын
yep had one too catless exhaust does wonders
@randomsurfer3963
@randomsurfer3963 4 жыл бұрын
When doing fuel mapping I remember another reason for running rich (apart from having to keep the engine from detonating), was to keep the pre-cats cool enough. The emission regulations, required that pre-cats had to be close to the engine for them to get hot quick enough to reduce cold emissions but the flip side is you have to throw fuel at them to keep them cool, once engine warms up. That was for the V12s I worked on, I remember setting lamba ratios to 0.75 at WOT to my amazament! I am not sure if that's relevant for smaller engines, but it's funny that to keep emissions "low" 25% excess fuel had to be burned(I should say wasted and not burned as it won't burn)..
@verdict1163
@verdict1163 4 жыл бұрын
90s Japanese cars are the turbo cars with character.
@dragospahontu
@dragospahontu 3 жыл бұрын
All turbo cars have character. But diesel turbo cars are reliable.
@johnjameslane
@johnjameslane 4 жыл бұрын
Wow ! 40 mins boys 😃 Keep up the good work 👍 Can you do a worst cars review please, this would tickle many of us especially when you both disagree 😂
@robertcinapri3477
@robertcinapri3477 2 жыл бұрын
I own a 2016 GTI, with the amazing paddle shift auto. It goes quickly with no effort. It is impressive, but the joy is limited. I also own a 1970 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV, 4 speed manual. It ALL JOY, all the time! and I am going slowly...
@pssprycha216
@pssprycha216 2 жыл бұрын
Mr Camissa, didint know ur a world rally champ battling for .001 secs. That turbo lag subject is deep. lol All the best.
@toothferrin
@toothferrin 4 жыл бұрын
These are so awesome! Keep it up!
@1972juankarlos
@1972juankarlos 4 жыл бұрын
Another Master Class by Carmudgeon... :)
@And4224
@And4224 4 жыл бұрын
I love this series! Last week i watched 8 episodes in one day!
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
I'm so, so sorry. :)
@rjtastic
@rjtastic 4 жыл бұрын
more car reviews please! i know you guys are working on it but plz!!! i'm ready to watch n number of car reviews on this channel everyday.
@rommac1907
@rommac1907 4 жыл бұрын
Had a blown turbo on my (very far from being a sports car) ‘03 e46 330d last summer, looks like 240Mkm was its limit... never had anything to do on it other than that. 😊 The only turbo exception would on diesel where non-turbo cars are insanely slow and sluggish. Btw I loved your french impression, pretty accurate 😄
@heffaazul
@heffaazul 4 жыл бұрын
Derek has the most calming voice I've ever heard.
@juanmj93
@juanmj93 4 жыл бұрын
I live at 2600m (like 8000ft) over sea level, air density here means that a stock Golf GTI is about as fast in a quarter mile as a E92 M3 or a V8 Audi R8, so... Turbos are a huge thing around here and yeah, I used to think they were "the way".
@Turboman_64
@Turboman_64 2 жыл бұрын
"Hubraum ist durch nichts zu ersetzen" actually is a common phrase amongst car people here in germany, wich is translated to "Displacement cant be replaced by anything".
@damieg82
@damieg82 4 жыл бұрын
34:56 ... if I'm not mistaken, the first mass produced twin-charged engined car was the JDM K10 Nissan March Super Turbo
@soulside
@soulside 4 жыл бұрын
Great listen. Keep it up
@benpenagonzales6014
@benpenagonzales6014 2 жыл бұрын
I'm mostly a miserable cynic. But I love the sincerity of the carmudgeon show and lack of pretensions, and the accuracy and detail
@mchristr
@mchristr 4 жыл бұрын
Jason, I feel ya. I bought an 86 Mustang SVO with a 5.0 swap plan in mind. The project was kicked to the curb numerous times but it's now on the road...with the original turbo, intercooled 2.3. I'm determined to trick this thing into making semi-instantaneous boost down low. Call me crazy.
@kiwiwifi
@kiwiwifi Жыл бұрын
2 words to settle the debate. Free energy!
@shadquirk607
@shadquirk607 2 жыл бұрын
As a Kiwi I'm fascinated by the difference in attitudes around the world when it comes to cars, and the discussion around modern turbo charging is right on point. Here turbo'ing was merely a tool to give you extra torque in your diesel ute. Our attitude around cars is dominated by the war between Ford and Holden and our access to Japanese cars, so our experience of 'turbo' came from them. Both Ford and Holden dabbled with turbos, but until the legendary XR6 Turbo in 2002 they were never peak, the highest performaning, most expensive and most exclusive car was always a V8. As for the Japanese cars, the cost of the really interesting stuff like the Starion Turbo or original 300zx just wasn't worth it compared to a locally built V8 or even a euro. So traditionally our attitude was generally 'turbos are for offloading and towing', BUT the big difference between us and the US is that we got easy, and cheap, access to the amazing Japanese turbo cars of the 90's. So unless your old like me lol turbo is considered a tier above NA, in fact that is reflective in our new car sales, sports car and diesel sales etc. for us now turboing is peak.
@Dolby109
@Dolby109 4 жыл бұрын
It's funny Jason's never owned a turbo car. Somewhat by accident all four of my cars are turbocharged. My 240SX was SR swapped like 14 years ago, so that was my first turbo. Now it's a medium sized upgrade so still a bit laggy. Then I got a Fiesta ST daily driver...great fun car, tiny turbo, drives rather like a V6. My wife wanted a Flex, and I made her get the ecoboost...Twin Turbo V6 - 365hp! Lastly I impored a Suzuki Cappuccino. Tiniest turbo of all, but a very fun car. Drives like a Miata but lighter. I have had some nice N/A cars including a Camaro Z28 (old iron LT1, T56), and a Honda Beat (slower than the cappuccino, but glorious sounding...videos in my channel).
@benpenagonzales6014
@benpenagonzales6014 2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in the 80s. My Dad had a pair of sunglasses with Turbo on the side. All these things come from F1 usually. But turbos first came from planes. The spitfire was supercharged.
@racerx509
@racerx509 3 жыл бұрын
I love turbocharged old cars, but I was born and bred on them. I'm not a fan of modern "efficient" turbos. There is a fun "theater" to older turbo'd cars, but you have to swap out the fuel system, spark system and other items to make the turbo'd car run well.
@dragospahontu
@dragospahontu 3 жыл бұрын
Turbo cars are fun because of the high amount of torque but naturally aspirated petrol engines are more efficient.
@ramonmalaya8451
@ramonmalaya8451 2 жыл бұрын
Jason is correct in describing the Mercedes AMG GT53 engine. It’s an in-line 6 with turbocharger, electric supercharger with an electric motor at the flywheel. The handoff between the electric motor and the forced induction is never noticeable. It’s a very German way of solving the turbo lag problem. I laughed at the dealer who tried to convince me that the in-line 6 would have the response akin to a V10. I ate my words. It was a sublime experience. It sounded like a purr compared to the roar from the V8 in the AMG GT 63 however…..even in sport mode.
@JoeyTeson
@JoeyTeson 4 жыл бұрын
I’m a chemist and I’ve never thought to associate stoichiometry with turbos. Thank you Tam-Scott, my friends will be buckling in for a whole new level of boredom.
@tersy9862
@tersy9862 2 жыл бұрын
I've only ever owned turbo cars apart from my current mustang and I can't say I totally agree. Turbo AWD is amazing and I think you need to have a manual go even notice to the difference of NA
@Dolby109
@Dolby109 4 жыл бұрын
FYI Jason - Vacuum/Boost leaks in turbo cars make it run rich in most cases. In most cars with mass air meters the incoming air is measured before the turbo, so if there is a vacuum leak after that point it's leaking measured air, which it's already added fuel for. I had a huge boost leak when a hidden boost coupler got torn, and the hole kept getting bigger. The car would just break up, and the spark plugs would come out wet. Now if you have a leak behind the throttle body then it will run lean any time the car is under vacuum, and rich when it is under boost.
@TheNimbleEnigma
@TheNimbleEnigma 4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting points in this episode. I always had a thing for turbo cars growing up, particularily 90's Japanese variety, yet I don't think I clearly understood on a really technical level, nor took time to really consider how much at times turbos actually took away from a pure sports car experience, or at the very least interfered with it. The very end part about the 959 really spoke to me because of all the cool things I've heard about it over the years, being a sort of pioneer to modern hypercars and technological performance advancements, but really in a weird way it did kind of spell disaster for the future of genuine pure sports car experiences in favor of overly complex revolutionary technology to make performance faster and better, which of course can also be a great thing on the other hand, but bittersweet. Very enlightening info. Great video guys!
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@arminabdi
@arminabdi 4 жыл бұрын
I learned so much from this one
@Stigman11
@Stigman11 4 жыл бұрын
Good content.. That`s why I just bought a Audi R8 V8 MT, with DW Coil overs. Back to basic and need to manual rev match
@rightwingsafetysquad9872
@rightwingsafetysquad9872 4 жыл бұрын
Like almost everyone, y'all have gotten the running lean leads to running hot thing wrong. If you run actually lean (>14.7 a/f), the engine will run cooler than stoichiometric. Engines run at their hottest at 14.7. The issue is that there has never been an engine outside of racing designed to run at 14.7, most N/A operate between 14 and 14.5, most turbos between 13.5 and 14. So if you lean out from there, you get closer to stoichiometric ratio and will run hotter. But adding more fuel effectively acts as a refrigerant. Manufacturers do this because running above stoich sacrifices power and responsiveness, so you'd feel like you're driving a diesel. Running slightly below stoich actually doesn't sacrifice anything - you can still burn all the fuel, but with the side effect that some of it will produce carbon monoxide rather than dioxide thus requiring more emissions controls. Running richer than 14.0 will lead to unburnt fuel and massive drops in efficiency.
@MohamedAli965
@MohamedAli965 4 жыл бұрын
What I understood from this is that running a leaner fuel mixture takes away from responsiveness? Can you explain why that is? And how come doing the opposite and running rich has no performance disadvantages? In that case then why do racecars as you say run at 14.7, wouldnt that be less responsive than making it run richer?
@aprtur
@aprtur Ай бұрын
This is a great topic....I honestly would like to see you guys revisit this on the show again, as things seem to have changed a lot in the last four years. There's definitely something to be said for that "mechanical romanticism" that a naturally aspirated engine gives you, but at the same time, classic turbocharged cars were so wild and in uncharted territory that manufacturers were really having fun with it (will throw in an honorable mention for Japan - bubble era turbo and supercharged cars were amazing!). I can definitely see both sides of the argument.
@paulgaida2601
@paulgaida2601 2 жыл бұрын
I got that Turbo book back in the 80’s , great guide at the time.
@kwedog2373
@kwedog2373 4 жыл бұрын
I own an Eagle Talon Tsi AWD (Mitsubishi Eclipse Gsx) and wouldn't trade it for the world. Now saying that, when I first got it it had that on/off turbo feeling (turbo lag) but when I got a cyclone set up from Japan. It made the torque and boost curves a more usable experience.
@jdrancho1864
@jdrancho1864 Жыл бұрын
27:00 "It's a liger. It' my favorite animal. It's a lion and a tiger mixed .... bred for its skill in magic."
@sidekickchuck
@sidekickchuck 4 жыл бұрын
I love these discussions man, Derek is hard to watch because he’s always looking down or not making eye contact like a 14 year old trying to talk to a crush.
@kristisrb
@kristisrb 4 жыл бұрын
sidekickchuck well, he is talking to his crush, so...
@brettmorden5950
@brettmorden5950 4 жыл бұрын
Amazing episode description
@05Forenza
@05Forenza 4 жыл бұрын
I've owned quite a few turbo vehicles at this point (VW's and Saab's). I MUCH prefer the driving experience. NA engines do have their advantages, but I love the slight delay where you feel the power more unexpectedly. It's more fun on a daily basis.
@nirfz
@nirfz 4 жыл бұрын
Great video! While watching i already wanted to start commenting to say you forgot about Turbodiesel engines, but you got that covered. (Turbodiesel cars are to this day the only turbocharged cars i have owned, and i think even have driven. But my country is known for having the highest % of Diesel cars usage. I think almost 70% of the cars on our roads are powered by Diesel engines)
@ivannachoo
@ivannachoo 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed on the 930 and Saab turbo lag.... I wonder what his take is on the Xr4ti? I think Jason's a fan. Thunderbird turbo and mustang SVO had a similar powertrain too.
@ArtHotelRiposo
@ArtHotelRiposo 4 жыл бұрын
Great stuff!
@dln.sweeney
@dln.sweeney 4 жыл бұрын
Thursday is becoming my favourite day of the week.
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
That's good to know. We actually aim for Wednesday, but ISSIMI is a bunch of Italians. So lately, Thursday it is! #ItalianChaosMachine :)
@cwbono
@cwbono 4 жыл бұрын
As someone who's owned multiple high-compression NA cars so much Yes Jason
@vincentgiroux4317
@vincentgiroux4317 4 жыл бұрын
Another great show, however I will disagree with you gents on one point. Sound! Yes, true turbos and superchargers do remove the classic induction sounds, but then they bring about their own. I enjoy both personally, the whine of large volume twin scroll superchargers, the unloading of wastegates or the woosh of a high revving turbo sound as exciting to me as an L28 on trip weber carburetors revving to the red line. What kills sound to me is efi on a single maf and low revs. Like you've stated, if it's too easy it's probably not worth doing... I'm still grateful to all you engineers out there btw, so don't hate!
@darksideemt
@darksideemt 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video and topic. I slightly older than Jason so I've had quite a few cars in my life and I started thinking through the ones I've owned while you were talking, and I have never had a vehicle with a turbo on it. I'm not totally against them just that none of the cars I have wanted/owned were turbo cars. I currently really want an M2 Comp so that would be my first if I ever get one.
@camilorodriguez5603
@camilorodriguez5603 4 жыл бұрын
I personally love that NA is all the rage cars like the GT3RS just tingle me the right way with the sound of their NA engines
@ericclayton8160
@ericclayton8160 4 жыл бұрын
The turbo car you should have drove but probably can't find one anymore is the late 80's Pontiac Grand Am with the 2 liter turbo motor. Had one in high school and it was just as fast as a mid 90's Camaro or Firebird. The boost came on around 2500 RPMS.
@coreygolphenee9633
@coreygolphenee9633 2 жыл бұрын
One of the best parts of the 930 is how scared the engineers thought that turbo was
@marcusjosefsson4998
@marcusjosefsson4998 8 ай бұрын
Had a tuned Audi 100 (5000) turbo, the boost was pretty crazy. Never exploded the turbocharger or the engine, but it was crazy fast!
@erenoid123
@erenoid123 4 жыл бұрын
Great episode 👌🏼
@stms4411
@stms4411 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve owned three BMWs w the N54/55 twin scroll turbo 3.0 liter 6. There is virtually no lag. Beautiful motor. Just found the car around it to be getting a little too heavy and insulated from the road.
@DirtDude117
@DirtDude117 4 жыл бұрын
Also Jason you might like the N55-330E. It has the hybrid motor to help with lag and "efficiency" but with the ZF-8speed. They are dumb cheap and get 30mpg with a 300whp engine easily
@TAI-lr5vr
@TAI-lr5vr 4 жыл бұрын
Well good news Derek, there's one on Bring A Trailer (RS2)
@VectorAero
@VectorAero 4 жыл бұрын
I had a 2005 Saab 9-3 Aero - being my first car I loved it. But the more I learned about cars and driving, the more things about turbos bothered me like heat soaking and general reliability. It was fuel efficient on the highway, just not in the city when it's on the boost a lot. After that I had a 2015 Mazda6 and I loved that NA powertrain and its throttle response - very satisfying to wring out the engine. I now have a BRZ and I don't think I would enjoy it turbo-charged.
@mr22guy
@mr22guy 3 жыл бұрын
Did you just convince me that the 959, my 2nd favorite car ever, is the harbinger of the doom of good cars?
@ahmedhishamdr8485
@ahmedhishamdr8485 4 жыл бұрын
Naturally aspirated high revving V8 is the best engine in any sports car! New Shelby GT350 is one example.
@jsquared1013
@jsquared1013 4 жыл бұрын
NA Straight-6 makes a compelling argument.
@coreygolphenee9633
@coreygolphenee9633 2 жыл бұрын
Depends on the car
@qtrfoil
@qtrfoil 2 жыл бұрын
[Laughs in waterless flat six]
@coreygolphenee9633
@coreygolphenee9633 2 жыл бұрын
Flat or straight 6, really a straight 6 is simply just correct
@coreygolphenee9633
@coreygolphenee9633 2 жыл бұрын
@@qtrfoil exactly, make the same horses don't need a giant engine hoist to work on it
@BOKtober
@BOKtober 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe these 2 should drive some good 90s Japanese turbo cars, not as laggy as the really old stuff (Porsche and Audi) but don’t have the ridiculous power of modern cars unless you want to spend the money. My R32 GTR makes boost from 2500rpm, fullboost at 3900rpm, revs to 8000rpm, fun power delivery, super reliable and sounds great!
@palletjackinfo
@palletjackinfo 4 жыл бұрын
As an FR-S driver I can relate to not having any power below 3500 RPM... And it's not even turbocharged!
@michaelharrison1093
@michaelharrison1093 4 жыл бұрын
You can solve this problem with new headers, exhaust and a retune.
@maldridge7630
@maldridge7630 2 жыл бұрын
2 Masters of The Automotive Universe!
@lansonfloyd4687
@lansonfloyd4687 3 жыл бұрын
listening to this, I could only think that Jason needs to drive the Mines "Super Response" Skyline GTR. I also would like to drive it, hehehe.
@jsquared1013
@jsquared1013 4 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure whether I should disagree, or simply say I have a caveat. A car with a turbo that is properly-sized to the engine (all factors, from turbine housing A/R to wheel trims and sizes, etc) with good plumbing (short runner exhaust manifold, preferably twin-scroll, short intercooler pathway, etc) can still be quite responsive. Especially the direct-injected engines, since the direct injection allows for things like a 10:1 compression ratio AND a turbocharger in the same engine, which improves off-boost response and helps spool the turbo quicker than a lower-compression engine would. It will likely still have a moderate *Boost threshold* , but the transient response over that threshold will be barely noticeable. That's what a lot of casual car guys, and even many journalists, fail to take into account: they use "lag" to describe both phenomenon. A car with a high-ish boost threshold can still have quick transient (off/partial/on throttle) response, and car with an early boost threshold can still be transiently laggy. I've owned an SR20-swapped 240SX (small ball-bearing stock turbo, better computer control with short exhaust manifold and intercooler plumbing), a stock 1987 Volvo 740 turbo wagon (old turbo and computer tech, small turbo for quicker response), and a medium-big turbo STi (365 AWHP, modern ball-bearing turbo design with billet compressor wheel and second-to-latest tech turbine wheel geometry, as well as a build bottom end with headwork and cams). Growing up in high school and college, my dad also had a 1986 Porsche 944 turbo with a decent amount of modification but stock turbo (and I put probably 5x the miles on it that he did). So I've run the gamut in regards to turbo tech and sizing. I also got to drive a pre-LCI M2 in Spain for a few days, but not enough time to run it through it's paces like the ones I've actually owned. With the SR20DET car, the turbo lag was barely perceptible. The STI has a high-ish boost threshold -- probably the upper limit for my own personal preferences, but transient response above that is better than stock, and I'd say better even than the small-turbo Volvo with its older tech turbo and computers. On the NA side, I've owned an early S2000 (9,000rpm!) and I currently own a "Euro-engine" E36 M3 (six throttle bodies). While a well-designed sporting NA engine can't be beat for total response, with the right mix of ingredients it is possible to get damned close with a turbo engine.
@200mphgt40
@200mphgt40 4 жыл бұрын
Must say, for a weekend/track fun car, I've come to the conclusion that i like supercharged cars best. Go nearly as well as turbo, better control in tighter corners, great exhaust sound/and some nice induction supercharger whine. But not as nice as individual trumpet induction sound. Still, its a good compromise. And the boost increases as revs rise, so you want to keep reving it higher as he engine doesn't nose over, torque tends to level out, but not drop.
@Budiwoyz1
@Budiwoyz1 4 жыл бұрын
great show!
@mojosabien
@mojosabien 3 ай бұрын
If I can interject at 9:40 seconds. The reason Lancia delta intergrale engines implode is NOT because they are turbo charged. They implode because early series engines didn’t have baffling in the sump. You go round a fast right hand bend, alls good, you go round a fast left hand bend and your oil pressure disappears.
@caseybrannon4975
@caseybrannon4975 4 жыл бұрын
My last 3 cars were a mildly tuned 17 Golf R, an 06 CTS-V, and a 16 SS sedan (current). All manuals. The big cube NA V8's are way more gratifying to drive than the turbo 2.0 in the Golf. Been thinking about going to something with a supercharged big cube V8 lately though... This discussion didn't talk me out of it.
@twobighams
@twobighams 4 жыл бұрын
Evey person I've ran into that is a Saab fan, I thought to myself, "that makes complete sense".
@erikalarson6803
@erikalarson6803 2 жыл бұрын
Buick 231 in a T-type, GN or GNX, Ur Quattro's, etc. vs 426 Hemi, Stage 1, Super Cobra Jet, LS6, W-30, SD.455, Caddy 472 and 500. What a wonderful and difficult decision.
@randrewp
@randrewp 2 жыл бұрын
I've been watching a lot of these and "hyphen" has very kind and gracious body language
@juanmj93
@juanmj93 4 жыл бұрын
Holly shit Jason's mom had cool cars in the 80s
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
Seriously tho, right?
@THEsoulquarian
@THEsoulquarian 4 жыл бұрын
I’m with you, Jason. My past few cars have have been if the turbo variety and I’m tired of them. Laggy and city mpg sucks. I’ve never had a turbo charged car match the city mpg. Every time that turbo spools, you get shitty mpg. I’m def getting a na 6 or 8 for the next car.
@sauwercraud
@sauwercraud 4 жыл бұрын
Hubraum ist durch nichts zu ersetzen, ausser durch mehr Hubraum. We had that saying in Germany as well back in the day
@paolorocchi7151
@paolorocchi7151 3 жыл бұрын
I could listen to Jason talking foreign accents all day :)
@fantashi1782
@fantashi1782 4 жыл бұрын
yesss plss make a episode where weird cars are so special. like saab 😙😬
@dougrobinson8602
@dougrobinson8602 4 жыл бұрын
So we spell it Derek Tamhyphenscott?
@Dtamscott
@Dtamscott 4 жыл бұрын
Doug Robinson Jason does in his phone!
@dougrobinson8602
@dougrobinson8602 4 жыл бұрын
@@Dtamscott Why does that not surprise me?
@JasonCammisa
@JasonCammisa 4 жыл бұрын
@@dougrobinson8602 Because it's effin hilarious when Siri reads it out loud, that's why!
@nl3712
@nl3712 4 жыл бұрын
JasonCammisa👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍
@Dumptheclutchevo
@Dumptheclutchevo Жыл бұрын
As a Lancia Delta Integrale Evoluzione owner, who has just had the engine blow up in it, this one hurt lol I wouldn't change it for the world though. It's not fast, but it is quick. No way can I keep up with everyone else above 100, but up to that, boy is it fun, and hard work to keep up with the Ferraris, Porsches, McLarens etc. Especially off the highway.
@vitalipotchekin8241
@vitalipotchekin8241 10 ай бұрын
With modern cars you barely feel any lag, well at least with modern Porsches. Having said that, I do drive N/A, but don’t mind a good turbo. Everyone is hating on 718 4cyl turbo, but I found it quite fun, definitely not as good sounding as the flat six, but not as bad as everyone is saying.
@michaellorenson2997
@michaellorenson2997 4 жыл бұрын
I had a 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo. HUGE lag. Neat car on paper, but I lived in constant fear of it after a couple of close encounters involving snap oversteer, in situations where it was a total surprise. I was able to improve its handling substantially with a fairly simple mod (rear control arm bushings), but that ultimately did not solve the fundamental mistrust I had for it. I kept it for less than a year before moving on.
@marcnobel3938
@marcnobel3938 4 жыл бұрын
As kid I have seen Vanilla Ice taking delivery of a Gemballa Porsche. That was a sensation back in the days.
@imgooley
@imgooley 4 жыл бұрын
Stoichiometric balance is done in moles, so moles per kilogram. You can look at them as mass, too, but it's a question of molecule ratios, not a mass or weight ratio.
@G55STEYR
@G55STEYR 4 жыл бұрын
23:36 actually the Turbo Charger is exactly what they called then: 2 piece turbine + supercharger. Stevie Jackson has fun thing to say about turbos and real racing engines like a Supercharged engine
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