The design masters - Gandini, Sacco, Giugiaro - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 13

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ISSIMI Official

ISSIMI Official

4 жыл бұрын

Jason Cammisa owns his cars just because of how they drive - and yet it occurred to him that several of his cars were designed by some of the most celebrated automotive designers of our time. Derek Tam-Scott does, too - and what follows is a conversation on how some designers have a signature (like Marcello Gandini’s bizarre shapes born out of packaging concerns) and others don’t (Giorgetto Giugiaro’s designs, which often share nothing between them other than being beautiful.) And then there’s Bruno Sacco, the father of a generation of Mercedes designs (including the W126, W201, W124, and R129) that are timeless and elegant beyond perhaps any other. There’s also discussion of the Delorean (it’s rear-engined, not mid-engined!), the Rover SD1, and how some designs just get copied: the Ferrari 308 GT4 and Lamborghini Uracco are the same basic design; the DeLorean, the Volkswagen Scirocco, the Audi Coupe and the Isuzu Piazza / Impulse are, too; ditto. the VW Golf and Lancia Delta - and of course we can’t forget the Jaguar Pirana, which became the Lamborghini Espada or the Peugeot 405 and Infiniti G20. BMW had its designers, too, including Paul Bracq and Claus Luthe. And today’s Volkswagen design language by Walter Da Silva.
Jason thinks Italian designers are at their best when they’re working for Germans - who restrain them. Superfluous design elements age poorly, and keeping it simple helps cars age well.
Does it matter who designed a car? Probably not - but a great-looking car can make Derek Tam-Scott buy it just because it’s beautiful. It’s why he had an Alfa Romeo 164 and a Daimler Double-Six (Jaguar Series 3.) Jason would have a Maserati Quattroporte V because of it - but admittedly that drives beautifully (and Derek would have a QP1 and a QP3, too.)
The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled 40-minute conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on KZfaq alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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Пікірлер: 334
@zackklein2225
@zackklein2225 4 жыл бұрын
Issimi > motor trend.
@stigmsr1
@stigmsr1 4 жыл бұрын
Definitely! Motor Trend went from my much hoped for old Speed Vision replacement to all the shows I hated on the weekend Spike channel.
@ristekostadinov2820
@ristekostadinov2820 4 жыл бұрын
@@stigmsr1 i don't know why they stopped Roadkill, probably one of the best show in the last 10years.
@aproductofboredom
@aproductofboredom 4 жыл бұрын
In your dreams mate Motortrend is better than ever right now.
@acrspeed
@acrspeed 4 жыл бұрын
@@ristekostadinov2820 they're still doing roadkill. Unfortunately, it's MTOD only.
@Dangnilo
@Dangnilo 4 жыл бұрын
I think that's an easy comparison, in MT they are following a load of filters of what they say and how they say it, clearly J. Cammisa was working with one arm and one leg tied and cotton on his mouth so children under 40 wouldn't ever get hurt by real world thoughts and opinions. And that's exactly what makes ISSIMI so cool. Even Derek is being dragged and is learning from Jason to speak his mind freely.
@Wazup8012
@Wazup8012 4 жыл бұрын
I love the show but if you could please pop up pics of the cars more. I’m very visual but I’m sure everyone would love to be able to see exactly what you are talking about. For example, I curious about the similarities between the miura and the countach. Thanks.
@Wazup8012
@Wazup8012 4 жыл бұрын
I’m an idiot haha. Please do more of what you did from 21:00 on. Haha!
@heekim3373
@heekim3373 4 жыл бұрын
I agree. I don’t have their encyclopedic knowledge to make the quick mental visual comparison, nor do I have the historical references for the “older” cars.
@MarkMuraoka
@MarkMuraoka 4 жыл бұрын
I scrolled down to type this exact comment at 20:30 and then saw your reply lol
@dragospahontu
@dragospahontu 3 жыл бұрын
They did that for the whole video
@dragospahontu
@dragospahontu 3 жыл бұрын
@@MarkMuraoka lol
@artsohc
@artsohc 4 жыл бұрын
"I just want to clarify that I am not a Ferrari wanker" - after going full in about how his license plate frame is period correct...ok Derek.
@Dtamscott
@Dtamscott 4 жыл бұрын
A Ferrari wanker is someone who has more money than taste, or wants the world to think they have money at least. They buy the newest, reddest, mid-engined 8 cylinder Ferrari they can afford (or perhaps not afford) with the goal of drawing attention to themselves. They do not care whether they have a period correct detail and certainly to not buy a 4-seat Ferrari or a white Ferrari. A Ferrari *weenie* cares about the correctness of their hose clamps, and would probably blow anyone they had to for a set of correct wiper blades to allow them to not get a half point deduction when showing their car instead of ever driving it. I'm closer to the latter, but ask Jason how much dust came out of the door panel of the Ferrari I sold him when he took it apart to like make it look nicer or some shit, and it'll be clear that I at least drive my cars (whilst having period correct license plate frames). I aspire to be neither a weenie or a wanker. Maybe I'll get there someday.
@jose7777777777777777
@jose7777777777777777 4 жыл бұрын
Derek Tam-Scott if you’re both a weenie and a wanker does that mean you’re a regular Ferrari Chat user?
@artsohc
@artsohc 4 жыл бұрын
@@Dtamscott I like your distinction between weenie and wanker. I just enjoyed the humor in your comment ;)
@Dtamscott
@Dtamscott 4 жыл бұрын
@@jose7777777777777777 Been trying to quit! Actually it's pretty easy. I go on there and I'm like "y'all live on a totally different planet" and then they're all like "go away, peasant"
@Dtamscott
@Dtamscott 4 жыл бұрын
@@artsohc haha thanks, I've devoted a lot of time investigating the anthropological taxonomy of Ferrari douches (under which exist both the subcategories Ferrari wanker and Ferrari weenie). I take the issue with the former because I feel like they're not true car people, while the latter I feel a bit sad about because they are so marvelous to drive, and stressing about stuff like that makes the hobby more stressful than fun for me personally. If that's what they need to get off, then I suppose it's less destructive than say a drug habit, but still feels a little tragic to me.
@Dnaiss
@Dnaiss 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Jason, (Giovanni) Giorgio Moroder is Italian. He lived and worked a lot in Germany (where he produced and launched Donna Summer's career). Recently (7 y. ago...) worked with and was praised by the Daft Punk as one of the fathers and inspirational figure for electro music, hence your reminiscence of him as French (?). But he's Italian indeed. Like a lot what you do and offer us through Issimi, keep on, and thanks!
@borislavsashov8467
@borislavsashov8467 3 жыл бұрын
my name is giovanni giorgio......
@tech_report_0868
@tech_report_0868 2 жыл бұрын
@@borislavsashov8467 But everybody calls me giorgio
@StefanoMaggio
@StefanoMaggio 4 жыл бұрын
First of all, this was the best Carmudgeon ep yet! Second, Asso di fiori translates into Ace of Clubs (being the same word as flowers in Italian) , that will make more sense. Third, this stuff is very nerdy and I love it! Though I have to say I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as the two of you and I'm sure I'm not the only one;i would like more pics of whatever car is being discussed, seriously who remembers all of Merc's declination?? I'm an Alfa guy!! (loved the v6 ep.!) Fourth, C'mon!! Gandini designed the STRATOS!!! that's definitely worth a mention! Keep up the good work guys! Really loving the channel
@stefangrubesic2708
@stefangrubesic2708 4 жыл бұрын
Everything this guy said ☝️
@claudiodeascentiis5871
@claudiodeascentiis5871 2 жыл бұрын
You forgot to add that Giorgio Moroder is Italian and not French lol And they also forgot to mention a bunch of fiats 😃
@andrewhigdon8346
@andrewhigdon8346 11 ай бұрын
Ditto
@leotam3372
@leotam3372 4 жыл бұрын
308/208GT4 is such an underrated car aesthetically - it's so pretty - glad it's finally getting recognition Jason's french accent is hilarious - also, "no engine, no chassis - I think that's when you go home" is amazing
@user-xe2fn7dj4g
@user-xe2fn7dj4g 4 жыл бұрын
Sincerely some of the best content on the interwebs. Really appreciate the knowledge, opinions, and the point/counterpoints. It’s rare that a 45 min show (or podcast if I’m driving) leaves me surprised at how fast the time went. Keep it up!
@bicyclist2
@bicyclist2 3 жыл бұрын
This is the kind of stuff I was completely obsessed about as a teen in the 80's. I love Marcello Ghandini and Gorgetto Giugiaro and the beautiful cars they created. I always dremt of working at Bertone, Touring, Ital Design, or Pininfarina. I spent many hours as a teen drawing all the cars mentioned here, and reading every car mag I could get my hands on. It's so great to see and hear two car guys discussing this. I have never been into any ball sports, cars and car design has always been my passion. Please keep the great content coming. Thank you.
@Talynen
@Talynen 4 жыл бұрын
For cars that hide their engine placement: late 80s Honda (3rd gen prelude, 4th gen civic) where they were obsessed with low hoodlines despite basically only making fwd cars.
@RyanM4N
@RyanM4N 4 жыл бұрын
A 308 GT4 and a Miura will never be mistaken for the same car.
@sobastiusvasilius596
@sobastiusvasilius596 3 жыл бұрын
If you look at the curves under the front end and the back ends like Derek was saying....... They kinda do look similar.
@Petrospect
@Petrospect 3 жыл бұрын
that's about the equivalent of the old trope with the lady showing a bit of leg in the dark. if we had that for cars, sure...maybe...who knows...still doubt that'd ever happen in the history of ever.
@AnnaChat1
@AnnaChat1 4 жыл бұрын
2:25 "Do you see what I have to deal with." - Jason. But also me every time Geoff talks about cars. FINALLY. SOMEONE. WHO. UNDERSTANDS . ME.
@alexbaker2494
@alexbaker2494 2 жыл бұрын
I love the fact that I can watch you guys talk for hours and it’s always interesting without you repeating the same opinions, stories, and points that you’ve said in other videos simply because of the encyclopedic knowledge of you guys. Makes these awesome to listen to.
@saril123exe
@saril123exe 4 жыл бұрын
This channel is pure gold and Jason Cammisa is the biggest gold nugget out there xD
@artsohc
@artsohc 4 жыл бұрын
Why is this video is so long? *i've watched it 3 times now*
4 жыл бұрын
you guys are my favourite car podcast. I listen to a lot of them in other fields, but you're the first avtomotive one to listen more then 5 episodes. I don't know what you're doing right, but please keep it up.
@soulside
@soulside 4 жыл бұрын
Thank god this podcast exists on KZfaq. I tried listening to it first on Spotify and had no idea what cars you guys were talking about. The screenshots really help!
@DonLee1980
@DonLee1980 4 жыл бұрын
This garage is perhaps the best place to do a car podcast discussion I've ever seen.
@swanblake
@swanblake 4 жыл бұрын
I kept my mouth shut and ears wide open on this. Never knew any of this. So interesting and insightful. As always, great show guys
@WalterSpiga
@WalterSpiga 4 жыл бұрын
The most beautiful car ever made is the Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 Stradale. Period.
@MrBenzcdi
@MrBenzcdi 2 жыл бұрын
I love it too but at 18 units produced, it’s hardly a production car.
@sw651
@sw651 2 жыл бұрын
You guys surpassed just geeking out on cars and raised the bar so high.
@brianward6291
@brianward6291 4 жыл бұрын
Best episode yet! As an Architect - Audi's ALWAYS catch my eye
@glorious_help
@glorious_help 4 жыл бұрын
Brian Ward good to know
@Trendyflute
@Trendyflute 4 жыл бұрын
You guys are just too good. Thank you, Jason, for your very brief shoutout to the styling integrity of the MkIV VW Golf. I loved the two MkIVs I had, and that included washing and waxing them all the dang time and lingering in the garage, enjoying how the reflections played across the creases and curves of the paint...
@danielcodes
@danielcodes 4 жыл бұрын
Love that the episodes keep growing in length!
@ClinicalDecisionYikesYT
@ClinicalDecisionYikesYT Жыл бұрын
That’s what she said 😂
@HemiMike
@HemiMike 4 жыл бұрын
I'm starting to get the hang of your conversations. Good episode. Keep it up.
@maldakeils
@maldakeils 4 жыл бұрын
hit pause, pull up picture, contemplate, repeat. Great Show! More of this, more of that, you guys are setting the bar high..
@lesflynn4455
@lesflynn4455 Жыл бұрын
I love this show. It's so nerdy, as it should be.
@SANDSCORCHER
@SANDSCORCHER 2 жыл бұрын
Remarkable to hear American gentlemen singing the praises of the Rover SD1. The mark of true carnnoisseurs with absolutely eclectic tastes and far reaching interests. Bravo fellas 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😎👍🏻
@theredjalopy3884
@theredjalopy3884 4 жыл бұрын
every time these shows get longer and longer my day gets better and better
@DirtDude117
@DirtDude117 4 жыл бұрын
I do enjoy listening to these and usually time I turn to see the car it's on screen. Great for listening to at work!
@seepuyi
@seepuyi 4 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this episode. In particular, Jason Cammisa's revised cadence and tone allows me to digest the information. When he's more 'enthusiastic' I have difficulty hearing him. Nice work.
@NLDMesa06
@NLDMesa06 4 жыл бұрын
I can honestly credit Sacco's work for igniting my appreciation for timeless automotive design. I remember the day a black early W140 drove past as I was on the sidewalk. Stopped me dead in my tracks and my jaw dropped. To this day, he is the only automotive designer who's entire collection of work always gets a double take from me.
@benzinapaul7416
@benzinapaul7416 4 жыл бұрын
Sacco took the rear boot/wing influences on the W201/W124 from the Alfa Giulia 105 4dr which in itself was incredibly aerodynamic for its age. Fantastic episode guys, just wish I could join in, I could talk to you guys for hours!
@antonydavis5917
@antonydavis5917 4 жыл бұрын
This is the combination of history, information and passion were people's like me missing TODAY
@nathanchildress5596
@nathanchildress5596 3 жыл бұрын
Unless you like Japanese cars, and then it’s a black hole.
@Vonstroke
@Vonstroke 4 жыл бұрын
Da Silva's best design is the 156. By some distance.
@jetkunedo
@jetkunedo 3 жыл бұрын
De Silva
@delahayenator
@delahayenator 2 жыл бұрын
Original 156 is a nicer car than the 159 imo. Better driving for sure and i like the design of it more. 159 has Brera stylingtricks, both ofcourse good looking cars too but way too heavy
@Kalepsis
@Kalepsis 4 жыл бұрын
On the topic of beautiful 4-seaters that don't look like a bastardization of some other car with good design: Alfa GTV6! So pretty.
@cayman9873
@cayman9873 2 жыл бұрын
My old lancia 76 scorpion was my favorite car for decades. Mid engine and great leather seats. Great design.
@bogosian.
@bogosian. 4 жыл бұрын
best one yet. Thanks guys.
@Strike86
@Strike86 4 жыл бұрын
Oh hey I own a 159. Great to see them getting some appreciation across the pond! Love the subject of design, you should do more on it. I think no matter how informed we claim to be on the engineering or the capability of a car we're more often swayed (subconsciously or otherwise) by the look of a car. What do you guys think of the Bertone Alfa GT (the 2004+ one)?
@Yathuprem
@Yathuprem 4 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed this more than the podcast because of the visuals of car. More of it will be appreciated.
@michaelteret4763
@michaelteret4763 4 жыл бұрын
This was a great episode! I’d love to see sequels on other designers...
@thema635900
@thema635900 4 жыл бұрын
Great show, thanks guys!!! The Saab 9000 project was very constrained by the fact it shared many elements with the Lancia Thema, Fiat Chroma and Alfa 164 (even the doors with the first two, Alfa managed to be more distinctive although it was launched a couple of years later than the other 3). In my opinion da Silva's Alfa 156 is also one of the best looking small sedans ever made (roughly the same size as the Mercedes 190), I will even put the current Audi A3 at almost the same level. Da Silva also reinvented SEAT in the early 2000's, with a much more sensual style than his German designs characterized by those functional and horizontal lines, so I would say he knows how to read their clients. Anyway, design is an almost never-ending topic to discuss. Cheers and thanks again!
@raceflash9563
@raceflash9563 4 жыл бұрын
30:08 Yes, great proportions
@David-kg5dk
@David-kg5dk 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for listening to feedback and including pics of the cars mentioned.
@aztroooo
@aztroooo 4 жыл бұрын
Does anyone else catch themselves staring at the LaFerrari every time the camera is on Jason? I can’t help myself!
@fmartmart8099
@fmartmart8099 4 жыл бұрын
Okay the Hyphen kid is growing on me a little bit
@crossphaded
@crossphaded 4 жыл бұрын
not so much.the crackly voice and dry humor don't jive with me.
@gustavoflorio5383
@gustavoflorio5383 4 жыл бұрын
He knows his stuff. Muuuuch more than the average self-proclaimed "gearhead".
@KillingForFaith
@KillingForFaith 4 жыл бұрын
Who knew Jason could sing so beautifully ❤️
@tymwalt
@tymwalt 4 жыл бұрын
Probably your best discussion to date. Derek knows his stuff.
@KiSUAN
@KiSUAN 4 жыл бұрын
Haven't watched the video, just wanted to say I was dying inside waiting for another video, to much time, now I watch :P
@verdict1163
@verdict1163 4 жыл бұрын
IMO Sacco's design language was lost in translation somewhat from the base 190 to the kitted out Cosworth. A facelift 190E (two-tone w/ side cladding) is stunning.
@dennisfernau8076
@dennisfernau8076 2 жыл бұрын
Gosh I wish KZfaq allowed to post pictures. I had the pleasure of viewing in person, a very rare original car one of twelve made. ATS 2500 GT.
@arminabdi
@arminabdi 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for putting photos of cars you talk about on the screen
@JET-F82
@JET-F82 4 жыл бұрын
Loved the vid‼would definitely be down for another vid focused on designer's🔥🔥
@michaeldickerson9428
@michaeldickerson9428 4 жыл бұрын
Best episode yet. Full on car nerdiness! Unfortunately (or fortunately) I knew every car you were talking about..
@b0kb0k
@b0kb0k 4 жыл бұрын
Good stuff. You missed one of the most produced Gandini designs: FIAT/Bertone X1/9 (160,000 produced).
@raz_nick4048
@raz_nick4048 4 жыл бұрын
I saw one with a k20 swap and it was a pocket rocket! Those are beautiful little cars and ever since Ive been wishing I could own an 3sgte AW11 mr2 and a k20 x1/9 to complete my vintage budget mid engine car collection happy with my 3800sc fiero so far
@artoo45
@artoo45 4 жыл бұрын
That was a blast. So much agreement here.
@Rafagafanhotobra
@Rafagafanhotobra 4 жыл бұрын
This deserves hundreds of thousands of views
@channelmgrmark1094
@channelmgrmark1094 4 жыл бұрын
This was a great episode! Maybe the best one yet. You guys need to do an episode on the evolution (and upmarket push of Kia and Hyundai) and how they raided Audi and BMW to get where they are today. I know they aren’t halo cars or classics but it’s a great story!
@gzarrillo
@gzarrillo 4 жыл бұрын
Great show! Keep it up.
@FlashDriveFilms
@FlashDriveFilms 4 жыл бұрын
What a refreshing discovery! Personally, I've owned example from all of these designers: Mk1 Golf , Gandini's X1/9 and Sacco's R129 and a couple of W201. (I daily an 84 now) I think the idea about Gandini and packaging is right on, if you look at the spec of the X1/9 and all that he crammed into a little over 12 feet of car. Also, the Fiat Panda always struck me as a 2/3 scale Mk1 Golf, but one version had 4WD! Good stuff here. Alden
@QXZ9027MKII
@QXZ9027MKII 2 жыл бұрын
The rear seats on the BMW 7series E38 iL where epic very comfy and with the foot rest like a small ottoman perfectly angled, I sat on that E38 only once in my life in the back for around half an hour drive, and that was in 1995 and i still remember the experience till this day, and since then when i ride in one i sit in the back and I go oh thats not the same at all not even close, lets not forgot the headlights they where white bright, with round discs. Nice car indeed.
@metallevts530
@metallevts530 4 жыл бұрын
Great episode! Keep them coming please
@Ricardo95Santos
@Ricardo95Santos 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome show, as always! Just a quick note, both the E32 and E34 were designed by Ercole Spada
@triverbike1368
@triverbike1368 6 ай бұрын
Listening to you talk about Italian design while being an Italian designer was… interesting. 😊
@slehbenhamida3689
@slehbenhamida3689 4 жыл бұрын
I saw the transverse layout of the Miura in a cars & coffee about a couple of years ago. That thing is like nothing else on the road. A naked Miura is like Art for automobile design.
@blueridgegarage
@blueridgegarage 4 жыл бұрын
Another nice episode. Keep up the good work!
@brodyoxnard9370
@brodyoxnard9370 4 жыл бұрын
had to watch. had the w126, have an r129 ( both cars as much fun to look at as to drive ) didn't even realize designed by the same Sacco. once owned an XJ6 and felt the same way about how it looked relative to living with it. enjoyed this very much!
@williamw9918
@williamw9918 4 жыл бұрын
Super nerdy. Car and design nerdy. And I loved every second of it. You guys have amazing discussions. Would love to have a beer with you guys ! You forgot a big one : DeSilva’s masterful A5/S5 and how it was needlessly gilded for its second gen 🤮 Keep up the great work !
@j123rad
@j123rad 4 жыл бұрын
Well-done, gentlemen! As an opinionated petrolhead, your new ISSIMI channel is great. I’ve learned a lot from both of you in the Carmudgeons, Care & Feeding and video car reviews. Clearly your video editing capabilities are off-the-charts, but I think you’re letting yourself down on the Carmudgeons production. In the Miata Carmudgeons, I was absolutely lost on the MFG codes and I missed an opportunity to educate myself. In this car design Carmudgeons, many of the pics disappeared off the screen way too soon. Consider running ticker at the bottom or top of the screen, like ESPN or CNN, and use picture-in-pictures, like nightly news shows. Keep doing awesome!
@theCharmingDeviant
@theCharmingDeviant 4 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed the discussion here, despite very nerdy picky factual inaccuracies that only the child of a car designer would object to (yours truly). One thing I thought you'd find of interest, guys, is the fact that the Jaguar Piranha was actually commissioned by a British car magazine. The Marzal was actually the true precursor to the Espada. Fun stuff regardless! Keep it up, gents.
@coreygolphenee9633
@coreygolphenee9633 3 жыл бұрын
Just bought a Bruno sacco mercedes and it truly is the Saville row suit of cars
@lennyvalentinoSchiaretti_lvs
@lennyvalentinoSchiaretti_lvs 3 жыл бұрын
Great conversation, about the Alfa 164 and the Peugeot 405 and the bigger 605, all the three are pininfarina design. Enrico Fumia designer of the 164 and the gtv 916 explain pretty well the difference between those cars and why Peugeot ruined the proportion in their 405/605...the key is the C pillar which he managed perfectly in the Alfa 164 together with the sguscio (this line that goes all around the car).
@jimiverson3085
@jimiverson3085 2 жыл бұрын
An episode with the full story of the DeLorean car, the company, DeLorean himself, and his interactions with Colin Chapman would be fascinating.
@StupidFastTruck
@StupidFastTruck 4 жыл бұрын
Great video as usual.
@zishansyed8905
@zishansyed8905 4 жыл бұрын
Jason, I was very sad to see you leave motor trend. Not sad anymore, you and Pobst were the only reason to watch thatch their vids... aside from the cars, that is! I have to say, the carmudgeon show is awesome! This is literally me an my friends talking about cars, but with people that know more than we do and have much nicer cars, lol! As an industrial designer, myself, I have to say I especially enjoyed this episode. Thanks for making these videos. I'm glad you have this platform now.
@zishansyed8905
@zishansyed8905 4 жыл бұрын
Also, super happy you guys love wagons like I do! I've been a wagon guy since high school and when I finally made enough money to graduate from a honda civic and buy my first used BMW, it was a wagon.
@g-force8206
@g-force8206 Жыл бұрын
Bruno Sacco also did the stunningly iconic design for the MB C-111
@jandeman198
@jandeman198 4 жыл бұрын
Great episode boys. One gorgeous design after the other, in stark contrast to the shapeless overdesigned mess we got the last 15-20 years. Golden time for speed, rotten time for beauty, quality and uniqueness. oh, and i think Claus Luthe is the boss. :)
@fastcargtv6
@fastcargtv6 4 жыл бұрын
Derek had another Giugiaro designed car, the Alfa GTV6 :) Which was originally designed by Giugiaro as the Alfetta GT (successor of the earlier mentioned and also by Giugiaro designed Giulia Sprint GT - better known as Bertone GTV, as Giugiaro was the head designer that time at Bertone just quit in 1965) And another addition to selling one design to another client after refusal of the original procurer: the Cizeta Moroder V16T. This was the original proposal from Gandini to Lamborghini for the Diablo in 1988, but the Chrysler who just bought the company a year before wanted a sleeker, less edgy design but you can find many similarities in the finally accepted design of the Diablo and the look of the Cizeta Moroder.
@MrLundefaret
@MrLundefaret 4 жыл бұрын
That background! BTW - excellent description of the difference between Design and Styling. Had the autoindustry had more design thinking they wouldn't be caught with their pants down by uppstart tech guys making beta cars for the public ;)
@dipling.pitzler7650
@dipling.pitzler7650 2 жыл бұрын
That is so amusing, listening to two guys for 45 minutes probably with a transportation design degree from BS university "Miura and 308 are same same" rambling about styling with laughable terms like "lines less bendy" !This is far better than watching an episode of SNL!
@zackklapman3569
@zackklapman3569 4 жыл бұрын
This channel rocks.
@luiscamacho5870
@luiscamacho5870 4 жыл бұрын
Watching this video I kept thinking about the insane and unique design of the Vector W8. It turns out its design was inspired in the Alpha Romeo Carabo, which is a Gandini design. Amazing
@tomaszszczesny6158
@tomaszszczesny6158 2 жыл бұрын
I own an R129 SL500. Love it to the bitsss....:-)
@P.Galore
@P.Galore 3 жыл бұрын
Hyphen: I agree with you 100%. The Sacco-designed w126 has NO rib lines on the Series 2 (1989-91)
@michaelteret4763
@michaelteret4763 Жыл бұрын
Paul Bracq ❤. E25 was amazing, and Peugeot Quasar.
@bschell1969
@bschell1969 4 жыл бұрын
Keep up the good work Hyphen boy and Discount man!
@justaddafan
@justaddafan 4 жыл бұрын
Ian Callum should be mentioned with these masters.
@minitom7579
@minitom7579 4 жыл бұрын
The Pirana was never intended for Jaguar production. It was conceived by the motoring department of the Daily Telegraph newspaper. They approached Sir William Lyons of Jaguar who agreed to sell them an E type engine and platform which they then sent to Bertone where Gandini styled the body.
@4g5y
@4g5y 4 жыл бұрын
What a brilliant discussion! But guys, get out before 44:03. My heart almost stopped at that gong or whatever it was!
@revmotor
@revmotor 4 жыл бұрын
Nice Mr. Rogers cosplay, Jason.
@verdict1163
@verdict1163 4 жыл бұрын
Ugh that 500E looks so good.
@cesarcortes690
@cesarcortes690 2 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised they didn't bring it up Sacco's C126 coupe one of the most beautiful cars ever designed and his favorite design as well.
@simontallboy209
@simontallboy209 4 жыл бұрын
My wife and I have a 2018 Hyundai Elantra Gt Sport. I like the the design and styling of it. I think it will age well, and you can definitely see the German influence. I don't think that's a bad thing myself, because in general I find alot of German cars age well. Unfortunately many are beyond my budget. We did look at a Golf, and I do like them, and I will concede it is a more solid car, the Hyundai had more equipment and was priced better. And so far I've quite enjoyed it, it reminds me of my old Volvo, and it's been easy to live with. Loved the video!
@luanp.hasnay2600
@luanp.hasnay2600 3 жыл бұрын
Josef Gallizendörfer the second man at MB was the man that designed all cars attributed to Sacco. Sacco a great design salesman sold the design to the MB management.
@playtimehulot7383
@playtimehulot7383 4 жыл бұрын
4:15 The opening at the rear wheelhouse is a idea that got Gandini from Raymond Loewy. Look at the wheehouses from a Studebaker Avanti. There it comes from!
@michaellorenson2997
@michaellorenson2997 4 жыл бұрын
Normally, I'm in general agreement with you guys. Then you both dissed the Mark 5 Golf. Whaaa?? I think those cars are absolutely beautiful. The US spec GTi approaches stylistic perfection, inside and out. If I were a VW guy, I would HAVE to own one. But if I'm going to put up with the endlessly expensive problems of a modern German car, it will have to be way more exciting than a FWD... anything.
@MrLundefaret
@MrLundefaret 4 жыл бұрын
There were transverse engined cars in the early 1900's. The first successful transverse-engine cars were the two-cylinder DKW "Front" series of cars, which first appeared in 1931.[citation needed] During WWII transverse engines were developed for armored vehicles, with the Soviet T-44 and T-54/T-55 being equipped with transverse engines to save space in the hull. The T-54/55 eventually became the most produced tank in history. After the Second World War, SAAB used the configuration in their first model, the Saab 92, in 1947.[3] The arrangement was also used for Borgward's Goliath and Hansa brand cars and in a few other German cars. However, it was with Alec Issigonis's Mini, introduced by the British Motor Corporation in 1959, that the design gained acclaim.
@PixelPusher1
@PixelPusher1 Ай бұрын
"Do you see what I have to deal with" 😂
@nirfz
@nirfz 4 жыл бұрын
Great episode! 2 things: first, the drag coefficients: The 4 cylinder W211 (Mercedes e-class 2002-2009) and the C207 (the 2nd Gen CLK) had a drag coefficient of 0.25. Second: what about the guy who designed the legendary BMW 507 and the Toyota 200 GT (and a Steinway Piano)?
@somat111
@somat111 2 жыл бұрын
Re-watching this in 2022 it's very evident that restrained, elegant design is just about dead, everything now has to "stand out".
@shaerreaz
@shaerreaz 4 ай бұрын
RIP Marcello Gandini.
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