Phillip McKnight discussed this recently on his KZfaq channel. He thinks the major brands are trying to get us used to paying premium prices for offshore guitars while making a large profit in the process. I agree, it's not good for the consumer. Maybe buy used instead, that's what I've been doing.

I’m perfectly ok with it. Actually excited about it. To each their own I guess.

I think the issue everyone seems to have would be fixed if Gibson does what Fender does - make the less expensive guitars Gibson’s from wherever they are made, a la Fender Player, Vintera, whole pile of Artist Signature guitars - but it says Fender on the headstock. Gibson should have changed the models to Gibson when they switched shape of headstock.

It's because the Gibson USA guitars are just priced too high for most of the demographic except old baby boomers like me LOL. Gibson realized this and as a result is making Epis overseas but raising the price point to "fill" that demographic void. Used to be "Only Gibson is good enough..." Now it's "Only Epiphone is good Enough." LOL

I think the explanation is pretty simple. This isn’t a matter of Epiphone making bad decisions - let’s not forget that really, there isn’t any company named “Epiphone”. It’s all controlled by Gibson; Epiphones *are* Gibson products. Gibson just doesn’t want their name associated with anything below a certain price point, even if it IS their product, so those ones get the Epiphone name. So if they want to fill out the ~$1500 price range area in their products, they will have to be quality guitars in order to sell at that price point, - But they are not going to want it to say Gibson on the headstock, because that will just confirm that they CAN make a quality product for less than their regular $4000 line. This is something that I’ve seen with Fender and their Squier line as well. The higher end Squiers are often even better quality than the lower tier Fenders, but the company doesn’t want the Fender logo to be seen on something below their target price point. I had a Strat in the late 90s that was called a “California Series”; it was all US parts, construction, and assembly, but they were painting the bodies across the border in Mexico. The result was a US Strat that was $799 CAD, when their normal US line started at around $1300-$1500 CAD. But they only did that for maybe a year or less, because that turned out to be bad for sales of their higher priced guitars which were the exact same quality as those $799 California Series.

I see no problems with what Epiphone is doing.

“I wonder if this is a cash grab” that’s business, baby. And Gibson has famously been very guilty. Every guitar player I know either plays a fender or an Epiphone. Gibson needs to learn selling 10 guitars under a grand is much easier than selling 1 guitar for triple that value

epiphone has multiple price points for anybody interested in buying their products. i know this is difficult for anyone thats been around the guitar world for any amount of time but everything costs more. the days of cheap MIM strats for $299 at GC is over. the days of $399 epiphone les pauls are over and lets be honest those were mostly garbage. i own several gibson les pauls but the LPC in ebony is appealing to me because $1299 is alot better than dropping 5k on the gibson version. when it comes to resale value that something you should already know when it comes to specific brands so you shouldnt be surprised if you get less than half of what you paid for.

From Leo: Good report, to quote Dylan, the times they are a changing. Like you, I have purchased older and more modern Epiphones. They are good guitars for the price range. I really do not see myself paying premium money for a chinese, Indonesian, or other 3rd world import guitar. The bottom line is; gibson and Epiphone are names owned by a big cold corporation. Their fiduciary responsibility is to make money, and lots of it. NO decision made is for the love of music, love of musicians, or an effort to provide high value at low price. The price will go up until people quit buying them. If they make $400 profit on one, that is better than making $100 each on three. Straight business.

I love the sound of Gibson guitars and some other US manufacturers, including Fender. But I think the pricing policy of many traditional US manufacturers is completely excessive, not to say astronomical. I don't think Gibson and Epiphone are doing themselves any favors in the long run with these high prices. I like guitars from the USA, but I'm no longer prepared to pay the prices they ask. That's why I switched to D'Angelico Guitars, a company where the price-performance ratio is still right and you don't get the feeling that you're being ripped off when you buy a guitar. Manufacturers who charge their customers exorbitant prices should be punished by no longer buying their guitars. Because as long as we continue to pay these prices, the ladies and gentlemen in charge at the top don't see the slightest reason to rethink or change their pricing policy. So it's up to us guitarists as customers to decide what happens next. Musical greetings from Germany Mic

I think the "open book" headstock should be on them all, but the high end pickups and electronics are not needed. This custom line is supposed to be geared towards the guys who want a cheaper guitar that would normally up to higher end pups and electronics. But, that should be left up to the buyer. $2100 for an Epiphone here in Canada is ridiculous

All of the old Epiphone models are still available to buy. You can still go into a guitar shop and leave with a $200 Epiphone. You can still buy a Firebird for $650. These new models are simply filling a hole in the company's offerings. You can now spend anywhere from $200 to $50,000 (new Jimmy Page model) on a guitar from this company. There's something really solid at every price point now, whether it's Gibson on the headstock or Epiphone. Last I checked, having more guitars available to choose from wasn't a negative from a consumer's point of view. These new offerings also add a little shine back to the historic Epiphone name. Gibson was content to have that name sit in the muck for way too long. Yes, they're made overseas, but I'd much rather have the specs on the Epiphone Banner J-45 than the Gibson G-45. The former is objectively a better guitar in every regard.

I'm in near complete agreement with you, personally.

So what would you pay for an ES style guitar with $500 pickups, CTS pots, Mallory capacitors, switchcraft input jacks/3way, 1 piece mahogany neck, ebony fretboard, real MOP inlays, multiple ply binding, Grover tuners, hardshell case £1200 in uk (and that’s including 20% sakes tax)that’s good value no matter where it’s made.

the Epi 59 Standard with the case and custom buckers @ $1295 is an incredible deal!

I agree 100%. At this point, they should just make Gibson guitars with the Gibson name in the overseas factory. I don’t want that, but that’s what they’re essentially doing only with the Epiphone name. Why stop there?! Why not just put the Gibson name on high end Epis and be done with it?! (Sarcasm.) They are essentially making Gibson specs at Gibson price in an overseas factory minus the name on the headstock. They can and should be making these guitars at home in the US. Gibson just wants a bigger slice of the pie, so they’re cutting out the lower priced Gibsons, like you said. Epiphones should never cost more than $899-$999 tops. Epiphones should not have Gibson headstocks. Full stop. Whoever thinks having an open book headstock is a big deal is likely someone who wants a Gibson and can’t afford it new and doesn’t want a used one - and I’m sorry to say, it still won’t be a Gibson even with that open book headstock. I can’t afford Gibsons either, but that’s life. We can’t have everything. You don’t see Tesla playing body tricks on a Pinto to appease Pinto customers (no relationship of course, but the point stands). Epiphone was doing great before the pandemic hit and during the pandemic. The quality soared. The specs were amazing. I’m sick of hearing about inflation and things being more expensive since the pandemic. How are all these other companies, both US and abroad, producing sick guitars for $499-$999? How are Epiphone still offering models that have cost the same for several years - some with the same or better specs that these $1000-$1800 Epiphones?! They can very well never charge more than $999 for any Epiphone, even with Gibson pickups. But if they can get away with charging more and making way more than they would have for making the same model at home, why wouldn’t they by just tweaking the headstock to be an open book? The problem is, by shifting the production of lower price Gibsons, they’re going to doom themselves slowly but surely because they’ll sell less US made guitars and that’ll slowly lead to a failing company where they either have to move their entire production overseas or pack up shop entirely. This is how it always happens. How many years will it take for them to lay off Gibson employees and shutter yet another factory? They just blurred the lines between the brands and cheapened the Gibson name by doing this too, all profits aside. Getting off soapbox. Rambling done.

I will always buy used. I don't understand why someone would limit themselves to the NEW market for an instrument. That seems insane to me. Buy a used 90's Les Paul Standard for $1,500. That will be a life long friend to you and you'll keep $1,500 in the bank.

100% agree. Who ever decided to put custombuckers in Epiphones over standard USA pickups doomed this line for me. They could've easily kept the cost down while offering a quality guitar.

Epiphone prices are now insanely ridiculous, I will NOT probably ever buy another. The 1963 Firebird V Maestro in Australia is $3189...not kidding, that is not a typo...$3189 AUD

Absolutely! Look at a Firefly with stainless steel frets, bone nut, roasted maple neck, roasted mahgony body (?) and Alnico pickups for $169.91! I think Epiphone should start worrying about that end of the market instead of the $1,200 one.

I can't even add anything to what you said because you perfectly articulated what I think about all of that

Epiphone is still manufacturing and selling $500 guitars. The latest inspired by Gibson Custom line uses the same hardware as the original US made Custom shop models they are copying (such as Gibson Custombuckers). Better parts means price increase compared to the budget models, by how much is debatable. When comparing the Epiphone 1959 ES-355 to the Custom Shop version, it gets the same electronic, same hardware, same body and neck specification (different wood origin and quality obviously), for £1200, the CS model cost over £6000, IMO it is good value for this model but people are free to disagree, everyone can spend their money the way they want and be happy.

Thanks for stepping up to say what we are all thinking. I have an Epi Sheraton ii pro. Great guitar I've not changed anything except the nut. Purchased it used. (Really cheap) and put some money in it post purchase. Sad to see Gibson go this direction. Agree with your thinking.

I think Gibson missed the boat on this. Instead of calling them epiphone, they should have relaunched the Orville brand. That’s what Orville was, more than an Epiphone and less than a Gibson. Orville’s even had Gibson USA pickups in some models. Making the “new” third brand would have made a clear difference between the levels of guitars and would have avoided alienating people who think Epiphone should be “cheaper”. Orville had the open book headstocks as well. It’s just a missed opportunity on Gibsons part. I mean they did it with maestro already, why not relaunch Orville??

If Epiphone can produce a instrument that is nearly as good as an American made Gibson at a middle of the road price more power to ' em! A lot of folks can't or won't pay a premium price for the Gibson name on the headstock!

300% Crazy & Totally right & on point

There are to many great guitar manufacturers out there to pay inflated prices.

I’m with you on this. The used market isn’t even offering much of a discount. It’s almost mirroring the car market, in which we’re starting to see some relief after 3 and a half years. I don’t think this is a great move because it’s going to drive people away from Epiphone in general and they have plenty of competition. Friends have already opted for Gretsch, D’Angelico, etc. I hope it isn’t true, but one small guitar shop told me that Gibson is looking to bring in a sub-Epiphone line priced from $100-$300, push Epiphone to Gibson prices and try to set Gibson up in the Martin echelon. I mean, in that case, my Gibsons will gain more in value, but I fear id become a curator and not a collector. I hope Gibson/Epiphone sees this as a phase and not an attempted growth strategy. It probably won’t work out well long term.

There are always work arounds and other options if you don't want to pay top dollar. Lets just use here, just as an example, the inspired by 59 LP . If you buy the first iteration used (with the Epiphone Kalamazoo headstock, which I think looks ok) you can pick them up for around $550, that's half the price of the new release and its effectively the same guitar. The first version had burstbuckers which sound more similar to the original 59's than custom buckers IMHO. The shape of the headstock and a one piece neck makes at best a minuscule (if any) difference to the sound. If you want the better appointments (bridge and tailpiece) install them yourself and they will not cost more than $100.

Spot on my friend 👌i totally agree

Epiphone did not need to put expensive custombuckers in, that’s what drove the price up. Could have used something like 57 classics and priced the guitar at $999.

Amen. They’re good but still feel cheaper. And I will put money on people changing the pickups after spending $1900. 🤦‍♂️

For $1300, I would just buy an LP tribute with Gibson on the headstock, just for the resale value alone.

So many people think its just a head stock change. In the es- 355 your getting real mother of pearl, ebony fret board, hand wired pickups, better electronics, custom bucker pick ups. ( $500) long neck tendon, a great hard shell case, 1 piece neck. Its a huge upgrade from a standard epiphone. Its a better value then a Lespaul tribute. They have circut boards for wiring, cheaper pickups, cheaper hardware, no hard shell case, short neck tendon, plastic inlays. But its made in America so it cost the same.

When they make an ES335 in natural with the Gibson headstock, Im jumping. Have you priced a 335 lately? Even used, that new 355 undercuts their prices by about half. Drop 200 on setup/fretwork and you’ve got a solid workhorse.

Three or so years ago I got an Epiphone Ghost Horse Explorer. Ebony fretboard, Gibson Electronics, and a nice gig bag for 799.00. oh and a Floyd Rose 1000 series trem.

I think in many ways you are right. But I do think it is simply what the guitar business has become. Top end guitars of any major brand runs from 3500-5000. Custom guitars 5 grand and up. Epiphone is filling a niche in the 1000- 3000 market. As for quality imports from japan, china, korea have improved so much they rival many of the usa made guitars. That said I'm a boomer who paid more than I should to buy my dream Gretsch, and thinking seriously on getting the epiphone Excellante.

Agreed, it is a bummer that these "inspired by" epiphones are taking the spot of the different entry level gibsons like the tribute line.

Gibson is upping their marketing game HUGELY lately to mask their cold corporate money grabbing mission. A company like that has ONE goal: MONEY MONEY MONEY. They hijacked a company which has emotional and luxury appeal and they lean on that in their marketing to make the money feel less of a barrier to people. They are backing it up with better designs and QC, however it makes me sick how much money you have to pay now for a chunk of wood.

i agree with WysteriaGuitar about gibson pricing too high; even as professional teenagers in a clone power trio band playing pub nights and high school bands, gibsons were already overpriced ( i owned 22 fender and gibson US made guitars). Today, the prices are likea portion of an automobile, so sorry, i refused to buy a gibson these days, simply because i cannot drive a gibson guitar.USA Fenders are still reasonably priced, i still own and play a US fender (a jeff beck signature), and comparatively speaking, the USA Gibson multiple times more exhorbitant are not multiple times built much better than the US Fender. The Made in China epiphone ( i own a les paul, riviera, wildkat, ) are perfectly priced and solidly manufactured. Having played the USA Gibson, in the 70s i cannot say i missed them, considering they were never able to stay in tune *jeff beck attested to that before one of his concerts** lol. The new Epiphones are though looking simply amazing, are way too overpriced. I refused to buy them even if i do wish to have a 3 pickup hrn rimmed SG 400. Sorry, not unless Epiphone are paying the chinese workers an equal excessive bonus in their wages. I'd gladly play my Made in Mexico Fender guitars.

There are many American made options for the same price of these new epiphone guitars. You can get American fenders, harmony, CMG, S2 prs, used Gibsons. Epiphone has jumped the shark with these prices. Hard hard hard pass!

Yeah,new Epiphones are really good,but very expensive 😢

The solution is to avoid the temptation to buy these Epiphones. They will end up on sale in 6 months at perhaps £400 lower and then worth a purchase. If they make enough sales they will continue but if they don't they will hopefully evaluate their crazy decision.

Oh great. Gibsons that I cannot afford. Epiphones I used to be able to afford. Now Epiphones I have to stretch to afford. I’ve been playing guitar for 30 YEARS, and NOW is the first time I’ve EVER made that last statement in the first paragraph.

I completely agree with you. The newer Epiphones are really good. I have several of them. I also have a vintage Gibson Les Paul gold top and a vintage SG (not reissues). Epiphone prices have been creeping up for a while but in the last couple of years, there isn't that much difference between a low-end Gibson and a high-end Epiphone. You will probably lose money reselling either but the Gibson will retain more resale value.

Agree - if Epiphone are going to continue down this path, I’d like to see them manufacture ES-125 / ES-175 models & so on. Really provide something unique, to Gibson’s current output. Gibson are making great guitars, i got a brand new Gibson Les Paul Junior in October 2023 & it’s fantastic, craftsmanship & quality is top notch.

Well said, Jack! Sometimes brands can convince people (been there) that their products are special just because something that is not the good reason that makes an instrument special, like a headstock shape. I’m sure that these new Epiphones are good instruments, but not at all I will pay that amount of money for one here in Brazil.

Colin at The Guitaristas has been calling Epiphone out for their price hikes as well. Your thoughts on Gibson tossing a portion of their guitars over to Ephphone at those inflated prices is a new line of thought and I think you're onto something there. I have every guitar that I need, but there are still a few that I'd like to own but I am not going to play that game.

Honestly, I kinda agree with what they’re trying to do. You have the base epi models that are 400-600, the more serious models that are 1000-1500, and if you’re spending more then get the Gibson. I own the collaboration SG they did a few years ago and it’s truly worth the money. I think they’re just diversifying.

You are absolutely right and I agree with you, Gibson should release their series at this price

Many of the new models have one piece necks (up charge), and long neck tenon (up charge), Gibson Custombuckers ($500 pickup set) and really nice cases ($200) so that's what you are paying for. Take your Epi 59 Les Paul $800 and then add a set of custombuckers, a nicer case, and premium features and you can easily see where the money goes and why they charge what they charge. Epi is offering custom shop specs for around $1,500. That's a steal.

I get the point of them. It's bridging the gap from the higher construction and lower costs. There's a huge trend of "if I put custom buckers in that, it'll play just as good as a Gibson Custom" well .. they did that for you. Electric Guitar + Higher Quality Electronics + $500 Pickups + Hard Case. It's just basic math. You can pay 1500 for a Rivolta and it won't come with a hard case and the pickups are lollar designed imports. I may scoop up the ES-355 because that's a phenomenal deal for one of those.

No problem whatsoever with the premium Epiphone prices as they are exactly in line with any kind of premium overseas made Schecter ESP etc.

I agree. One of the best bang for your buck guitars out there is the Epi SG Standard. Diminishing returns when u go much higher. Gibson getting rid of their Tribute series is a mistake as well IMO. The Gibson tributes Les Paul and SGs are fantastic guitars

I like the new Epiphones. The Headstock, Gibson Custombucker pickups Ebony fretboard on the Custom and SG with mother of pearl and with a decent case. Take my money 😊

Just buy a Schecter man. Evertune, sustaniac, stainless steal frets etc…

Hi Jack I totally agree with this being a lefty I really wanted a Gibson L5 one day alas they stopped doing them again, now they are doing the Epi Broadway lefty but they are impossible to get over here in the UK even though they finally made it, I think they might end up pricing themselves out for most of us. I think price wise you want Made in USA, if they were to revisit the Archtop's knowing the history. I always wanted something like an ES-330 in Red like Emily Remler's which had me looking at the Casino's. I really wish companies would support local labour forces, it's the exact reason I didn't buy another modern BMW etc motorcycle wise. I think we are all becoming alot more aware of it to. I actually found myself looking at Ibanez's latley but again there's not tons of lefties again. I think I'd find it hard to pay a premium as others have said for a mic Epiphone, (I own a mik Gretsch, 56 avri lefty strat an a mic, classic vibes tele,I remember only a handful of years ago over here you could get the gibson traditional lefty les paul model at £1,500 wish id bought one back then.

Yeah I'm not either it's like " WHY EVEN SAY EPIPHONE?" just rebrand them as Gibson! Lol omg the prices keep driving many out of playing and performing as a working Gigging musician chic it's getting unattainable

No thanks… a $1000-$1500 Epiphone , still manufactured in Asia, same quality control issues. To many other manufacturers for half the price, more features like satin necks, stainless steel frets, locking tuners etc.

It seems to me Gretsch have got it about right - there's the Streamliner range for budget, Electromatic for those who want better quality but still affordable, their Japan-made ranges (Vintage Select, etc) for high end quality models, and then the Custom Shop jobbies if you happen to have found a buyer for your kidney on the dark web. I can understand Gibson using the Epiphone name for their budget ranges up to the grand and a half kind of price and quality, but a guitar at the upper price level shouldn't really be made in China, with laurel fingerboards - for that price it should be rosewood.

You make a lot of good points Jack, and due to the fact that there are so many "new" brands who manufacture their guitars in Indonesia, using CNC tech, the $150-500 range is full of very good instruments. Back when I started playing in the late '90's, that was Epiphone and Squier's market...now it's not.

I'm sure they're nice guitars, but there's no chance im paying that much for an import Epiphone. Most of that price is because they come with the overpriced Gibson custombuckers now and not because of the fit and finish. A set of custombuckers is almost $500. I'd rather buy a used Gibson for a little bit more.

Almost seems like three tiers in the market: Gibson - top of the line of course, Epiphone moving up to higher end mid grade and Harley Benton, Firefly & Chibson copies filling in the lower end where Epiphone used to be.

Who are you, to judge the price of a guitar? You are not forced , to buy any guitar? Right?

Its a Cash Grab!

I went ahead and ordered the SG Modern today. We wont see cheap guitars anymore.

Same thing happened with Mexican Fenders, which used to be advertised as the cheap alternative, but now can cost over $1000!

As long as the keep the affordable line up I am in full support and applaud this new path they are on.

A few things to keep in mind are these guitars have higher quality pickups, electronic pots, and the better looking headstock. The quality of these guitars are better. I can see why the price is higher. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that they are still going to be making the cheaper versions as well. If someone can’t afford the higher end guitar they will still be able to purchase the less high end guitar.

Gibson wants to sell guitars at every price point, therefore they can never ever drop the cheap Epiphone line. They are simply selling premium Epiphones by leveraging brand name recoginition, uniqueness and 'custom shop' quality. There is almost no manufactoring price difference between a cheap Epiphone or a 'premium' Epiphone, but the more variables they can introduce the more they can charge: premium pickups and electronics, unique colours, stable tuners and bridge, etc. Using the developed Chinese industry and cheap labour, even the cheapest Epiphone guitar turns a nice profit. Remember that

In 1990 you could buy a GIBSON Studio or Studio Light in the range of 400 to 450. I regret not buying one just for the 🤔 appreciation. All of a sudden Gibson's exploded ⬆️ through the roof. Now Epiphone! 😡 I smell another cash grab! Das 😎 all! 👍

I agree 100% just got my 97 Epiphone Special double cut Korea back from a friend and its a great guitar but it was about $350 and its no Gibson, I could have got a LP special for about $650 at the time

Spot on Jack.

They could ironically reissue a copy of The Fool as a limited run high end Epiphone SG. Many people might be separated from their money to buy that guitar! :-)

At the moment i do think the price is expensive but actually makes sense. The finished product has tighter tolerances within reason than previous instruments which just means they’ve raised the budget for how much time each person working on a guitar has to do their job. The cost of labor has gone up significantly in china also, it’s no longer cheap or poor quality. Many factory workers are now more experienced and are appropriately earning more. In 2000 the average hourly wage for a chinese factory worker was about $1 us(a quarter of the equivalent Mexican factory workers wages) it’s now up to $8 us per hour. In addition to the more timely, improved and relatively expensive labor costs the electronics are very pricey. I do think the custombuckers are overkill but they are amazing. It’s nice that Chinese made instruments can be this high end nowadays. Of course the imports still use sap wood instead of the heartwood gibson uses, have heavy zinc hardware with cheap gold plating and use softer fretwire that wears quicker, and plastic nuts that don’t do anything for tone. I would rather gibson upgrade the lumber, fretwire and hardware than shoving $500 pickups into these things and making one piece necks seem like a big deal. I do think it’s a bummer that Gibson budget friendly models are very slowly fading and going up in price, it feels like one day the les paul studio will be little more than a melody maker at former les paul standard prices.

I totally agree. They need to put ky jelly in with the stickers for the customers when they buy an overpriced Epiphone

Nope I agree with you Jack

Great point. I think if they want to make higher end stuff, do it with the Epiphone originals. Gibson copies at that price are redundant.

So glad I’m done buying guitars. If I can’t make music on the ones I already own, I shouldn’t be playing.

I can't wait for the "Inspired by Epiphone" Gibson models to come out.

Also companies cant keep these guitars in stock. They definitely arent dealing with declining sales like you mentioned.

I bought the Kirk Purple V and the 150th Cherry Sheraton. Absolutely worth it for me. ❤

I'd take a studio over a Chinese custom any day. The nitro finish makes a world of difference to a lit of people. I havent played an epi custom les paul ive liked yet due to the plastic feeling. I have the IBG 339 that i got for about 700 canadian all in and it rocks. Nothing compared to the Gibson 339 but thats to be expected. Now, i am deba8jg between the Gibson standard AJ LP or the Epi AJ custom, but it comes down to killer pups and maple neck and a 2k difference. Hard choice. But Gibson should NOT give up on the lower end stuff simply due to the finish. If Ep did nitro, that would be something else entirely. I feel the early LP.studios were better than new high end Epiphones. Why drop that range, Gibson? Seems like a huge money grab. I think we will see less and less quality 1-1.5 k (Can) range and thats sad. Those are the ones that win over players who go on to get higher emd ones later. Dumb move and it will backfire. Also, who eants a Chinese guitar when you can get a used US one for the same?

If this is the way of things I'm happy to snap up a couple more used $400 Traditional Pros. They are awesom and can do everything within my realm. Everyone needs a good strat also. You can get a nice used USA Strat at these new Epi prices

Fender American performer. $1,400.

2.8 k New Zealand fro a ‘59 Epi . No thanks

Cesar and Agnesi must have fun nights coming with stuff like the real open book headstock for only $300 more

I don't see things as cut and dry as the majority here do. I own a Gibson Les Paul, an SG, and a Nighthawk. All are American made and from the 80's and 90's. I could easily have spent far less money and purchased off brand guitars made overseas and still had the same models. Now put yourself in the position of a manufacturer like Gibson. How can they compete making guitars by hand in the U.S. with quality U.S. wood and electronics? How would Chevrolet compete if you could buy a Chinese copy of a Corvette? Or Ford with a Chinese copy of a classic Mustang ?? There were the lawsuit years for manufacturers and lots of copies of all the best guitar models were made and sold. The big difference was the courts deciding in favor of the copy cats. Now this is where the industry has evolved. As like anything else. Once the foreign companies get a foothold they take over. Toyotas are not the little economy cars they broke into the market with. Once they got a foothold they evolved into the same big hunks that they broke into the market to compete with. Parked next to one of my American made Mustangs they are enormous, high, wide, 4 door hunks of recycled orange juice cans. We do this to ourselves when we sell out to the cheapest. Then when there is no longer anything cheap we complain. So now the Koreans, Chinese ,Indonesian, Vietnamese, among others are all flooding our markets and creating their own market foot hold. I do have one Epiphone ES-339. But out of the 15 instruments in my guitar rack, 12 are USA Gibsons, and Fenders. My driveway has only American cars in it, and that will never change either. When I attend classic car shows I can never find the Toyota section of vintage cars. I have a feeling your foreign made Guitars will never become classics either. All of my American made guitars are worth more now than what I paid for them new. So is my 65 Mustang fastback. You are all entitled to your own opinions. That is mine..

I think I get what they’re _trying_ to do, but I agree with you. Since the main justification is that they’re overseas bodies with Gibson pickups and electronics, it’s almost akin to the PRS SE line. Personally I think they should keep them Gibson branded and come up with a series name like SE, but their own version. However, I think that from their end they’re in this refusal to stamp “Gibson” on anything that isn’t 100% USA made. It’s a bit of that old school “play authentic” stubbornness.

Using the 63 SG LP Custom as an example: Brand new, a set of 3 custom buckers without tax cost, $867 ($289 a piece). Meaning the left over cost for the guitar husk and everything else without pickups would cost roughly $633. What we get asides from the pickups. Using retail prices and averaging them we can get a rough price based from eBay. - Wiring (Decent wiring harness is $40 or more) - Input jack ($15) - 3-way switch ($20) - Pick up rings ($12) - 3-way switch ring ($4) - Pickguard ($15) - Various screws ($10) - Vibrola / Bridge ($90) - Tuners ($55) That's roughly $261 if you're shopping around for moderate priced items. Dependent upon standards of components and hardware you prefer, even more. Probably more like $300 with taxes, and shipping. Then you have specialty specs of - 1 piece neck ($50 - $75 for a piece of wood that size without heel cap or headstock scarf joint) - Two-piece body (roughly $80 - $120 dependent upon your wood source for mahogany which is most likely sapele - African mahogany) - historic long neck tenon (even Gibson USA models don't get this feature usually - don't even know how to price this feature) - true mother of pearl inlays (Only Gibson Custom Lines get MOP Full sized blocks, but the pearl can be acquired for around $40 dollars) - Ebony fretboard. (Which lets be honest, is probably dyed just like other major brands but Macassar Ebony goes for roughly $35 - $40 a fretboard for good looking stuff). - double bound 7-ply binding (which custom kit builders charge just $130 to do just the top binding) - Then you also get a hard case ($140 - $200) Making this part roughly worth around $600 It's beyond fair pricing all in and all. I'd spend more money building this on my own then if I were to buy it from Epiphone. Considering most practical guitar players/collectors would never spend even $3,500 for SG or Les Paul Customs in not great condition, paying $1,500 for one that's almost an exact replica with similar wood species, and not having to get someone to do the electronics change out, it's a steal. To those think that Gibson should just make more affordable guitars, that's not Gibson anymore. They've learned what their niche is. It's affluent individuals and or people who are willing to take out loans for dreams they will never fulfill. Also, China isn't as 3rd world as some in the comments are claiming. They've literally become the go-to for manufacturing to such a degree thanks to outsourcing over the past few decades that America has no choice but to deal with China.

I’m coining a new term here…”Epiphone derangement Syndrome” …or EDS… Open book headstock or not (which btw I think is good), buying an Epiphone is always a roll of the dice unless you put your hands on it and know what you’re getting OR you’re buying a budget level instrument and your expectations are reasonable and tempered aka things I can live with and almost in all cases fix w/a good set-up. I do think Epiphones can be great players while at the same time I think there should always be an attainable Gibson model or two. Unless it’s U.S. made, an Epiphone guitar should never eclipse the price of any Gibson. As a longtime Gibson player, before the price hikes got real crazy I purchased 4 Epis. I was happy to see Gibson quality improving and Epiphone had some good mojo too. Well, I returned 3 and sold 1 due to poor quality control. That’s nothing entirely new but that’s also on guitars that were around $800 - $1000 each at just 2-3 years ago. Now, it’s the same level of quality control only the prices are rapidly approaching $2k?? For a guitar made in China…Which I’m not against entirely (another convo entirely) but let’s be real here. So we have an $1,800 U.S. made Gibson SG standard that comes in a gig bag albeit a nice one, but we have a $1,300-$1,500 Epiphone LP Custom that includes an OHSC because it’s “Inspired by Gibson” complete with the white knuckle experience of hoping you got a “good one”?? WTH. No thank you. It’s kind of like when a butcher calls a steak made of glued together pieces “inspired by steak” but still charges the same price. Yes, I still like Gibson guitars but I’m only paying what I feel it’s worth and it’s 100% pre-loved and sold by a sane person who doesn’t take me for an idiot. Or I buy an LTD which is 3x better in the area of QC for less money in many cases than the newest Epis. Yep, lots of EDS in 2024 so proceed with lots of caution.

What a fantastic video have a wonderful weekend Jack ❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊

totally agree... i wouldn't be surprised if Gibson/Epiphone launch a "3rd" brand at a price point where Epiphone used to sit.

Yeah, I bought a 2020 model Custom last year for £600 and love it. Great quality for the price. Very nice to have an ebony fretboard - not a fan of laurel either. Would love to get one of the newer ones in ebony to complete the set, but coming in at £1200 for a Chinese import seems excessive to say the least.

Well, Fender has long been doing the same thing, so it’s not surprising. I’m a Jaguar Fan, and just like Gibson with the Firebird, Fender isn’t currently making an American vintage one. I want to buy one, but it’s Squier $, MiM Vintera $$$, Custom Shop $$$$$$, or nothing…. I’m patiently waiting to see what California Fender(hopefully) eventually comes out with - but at this point, I’m seriously tempted to get a Squier, and hot rod it up to what I’m dreaming of - and I could do it for less than the price of a used Vintera. The only thing missing would be the prestige factor, which I’m not overly concerned with(I’ve owned many Strats made in the USA, and elsewhere, and the one I love the best is my 2013 Mexican Standard.) If many others are considering doing that, this could end up backfiring on both Companies….😉

I am thrilled with what they are doing. Am planning on getting one

I started with electric guitars later in life (about 20 years ago). At the time I looked around at the market and wondered if I should be forced to buy either a Tele, Strat or Les Paul. I started out with an anti-Fender and anti-Gibson bias. I've bought a few electrics, some of them good, some not so good but always different from those sold by Fender and Gibson. My point is I feel like the guitar community needs to get over these two iconic brands and worrying about what they are doing and why. These two brands exist to make us pay too much money for a feeling or a headstock. There are so many other guitar brands that give better value for the dollar.

Most of the musicians singing the praises of import guitars would instantly find themselves in a concentration camp were they to go to the countries those guitars came from. Heard any Chinese rock and roll lately?

Only thing I don’t like about new headstock is it makes it easier to counterfeit, just gotta change headstock logo. It looks great but I dunno

Honestly I think the price stuff varies from guitar to guitar wrt expensive Epiphones from the past year. The Kirk Hammett purple flying V now at ~£1000 is not unreasonable. But when it was £1400 was unreasonable. As to whether this works or not, we'll have to see. They've been doing it for over a year now with £1000+ epiphones, and if it wasn't working they'd stop. Hell I see lots of people buying the expensive artist signatures on the Epiphone subreddit. But simultaneously I notice over here they do drop the prices of many of the new artist signatures. The Dave Mustaine and Kirk Hammett models have gone from £1400 to £1000. And they have changed strategies recently too. They tried releasing Prophecy versions of artist guitars and only did it twice before they stopped. Both the Dave Mustaine and Jerry Cantrell versions had price drops, especially the Dave Mustaine version, probably because they weren't selling. I think what's annoying is they include a lot of good specs, but a lot really aren't needed for what are meant to be "affordable guitars". The '59 Les Paul from the past few years was £750 and had Gibson Pickups. That's all it needed.