I think the title sums it up. Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jago... Patreon: / jagohazzard
Пікірлер: 727
@simonrichards1502 жыл бұрын
South London has many transport options, none of them good. For the real fun, try going from SE London to SW London... Make sure you have a couple of days to spare.
@RANDOMZBOSSMAN12 жыл бұрын
SE to SW train wise can be so awkward sometimes buses is faster than trains real pain in the backside
@Jablicek2 жыл бұрын
Battersea to Erith. No journey in London should be faster by car, but here we are.
@Evemeister122 жыл бұрын
@@Jablicek hopefully the London Overground expansion has helped things somewhat. SE London still criminally underserved/shut out mind you.
@fiddley2 жыл бұрын
Earlsfield to Clapham Common, only 2.5 miles so almost next door to each other yet it's an eyewatering 40 minute journey. Slower than walking for me!
@RANDOMZBOSSMAN12 жыл бұрын
@@fiddley that is crazy lol, but when I think of the train journey if you mess up catching the overground train at Clapham Junction you're in for a world of pain lol I joke with my sister I can get to the bank faster at clapham common than at Brixton from Peckham even though Brixtion is significantly closer due to the idiosyncrasies of South London train transportation. If there's one thing us south Londoners know it's the train timetable! Imagine showing up to a station without a clue in the world when the train is coming must be a north of the river thing
@tialtnga2 жыл бұрын
My grandfather lived in Camberwell. Once whilst digging in his vegetable patch he uncovered a sea shell and when he put it to his ear he swore he could hear a Bakerloo line train coming.
@n17hero2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jago. You are a star. Contrary to my youtube name, I too live south of the river. Getting home after late nights out turn into very Heath Robinson affairs. Tube, train, bus and walks over Thames footbridges accompanied only by the sound of hooting owls. Now if only South West Railway could be persuaded to run a night train service. I won't hold my breath on that one.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
I find the night buses generally were not much slower than the tubes/ trains (until TfL messed up roads for cycles and lights phasings)
@mushy34242 жыл бұрын
@@highpath4776 au contraire, the introduction of bus lanes and increased night buses have made the service far more accessible and in fact a lot quicker. Credit where credit is due. TFL have done well there
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
@@mushy3424 they were quicker(ish) , most do a convoulted route from Trafalgar Square to Elephant , (well the one I need does), it used to be quickish M-Thurs but the narrowing of carriageway has slowed the journey down slightly)
@psalms5192 жыл бұрын
@N17 are you from N17?
@n17hero2 жыл бұрын
@@psalms519 I am not. The name is purely due to sporting affiliations.
@OhSome1HasThisName2 жыл бұрын
South London has lots of railways but they are an absolute mess to navigate (because of the history of inter-railway competition); the infrastructure is all there but it could really do with service simplification to get that tube-like ease of use
@KiranEvans2 жыл бұрын
Precisely. That’s why I’m looking forward to TfL’s plans to take over the lines and integrate them into London Overground.
@18robsmith2 жыл бұрын
@@KiranEvans and the best of luck to TfL in doing that
@Ogrecrusher2 жыл бұрын
Also a service that's more frequent than every 15/30 mins.
@PhilSergeant882 жыл бұрын
Don’t live south of the river then 🤣 the cab drivers can’t all be wrong!
@hx0d2 жыл бұрын
I'm thinking of a new devision of TfL, or a new company using the same strategies as TfL, maybe called TfL Rail (after crossrail opens), which would start to absorb all the metro services. Maybe it could use the same blue currently used for the current tfl rail?
@frglee2 жыл бұрын
The biggest problem living south of the river without tube lines, is that you can't get to other parts of central London without changing at Victoria, Charing Cross, Waterloo, London Bridge, Cannon Street etc. Which means a lot of walking through tunnels to the Underground, getting a taxi, queuing for the bus (or even walking to your final destination). Thus, there is a good case for extending tube lines out onto the railway lines in south London.
@OhSome1HasThisName2 жыл бұрын
or putting those suburban railway services into new mainline tunnels, as Crossrail 2 would do with a hole bunch of the lines from SW into Waterloo
@kaitlyn__L2 жыл бұрын
Excellent point!
@MsBabybombs2 жыл бұрын
And paying extra when you change from trains to underground
@Sophiebryson5102 жыл бұрын
Maybe making it a part of the overground?
@NextSound1702 жыл бұрын
You must be new because when I used to get to Norwood / Croydon / Brixton or Streatham. Easy. Brixton (Victoria Line, Northern Line, District Line, South west; to get toStreatham (either 109,133). To get to Norwood, now you’vr got Overground, as well as Croydon. Thameslink now is much better can even get to Bedford / Nottingham simple. Before the Overground, it was hard. Now you change at Highbury, train to New Cross / West Croydon. But i’ve been in London 34 years. South was never an issue, it’s all about timing, which connection. If you live in the out lying Surrey areas then yes, but still. The connections are there. Just need fi find dem. When the overground opened it then slowly linked up Croydon with Peckham. Dalston Junction was pointless so now with Highbury & Islington and connections to Willesden. You can reach anywhere.
@KravKernow2 жыл бұрын
It's because in North London we have little blue plaques saying "Somebody famous lived here" and in South London you have big yellow signs saying "Did you witness this murder?"
@kins97372 жыл бұрын
Much lols much lols indeed you Toby
@edby2632 жыл бұрын
Honestly.
@Genericuser_22 жыл бұрын
Christopher wren lived in Hampton right by the river
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
@@Genericuser_2 North thereof.
@munkeyweb2 жыл бұрын
I think I just witnessed another murder.
@stephenweston18072 жыл бұрын
Growing up in south east London in the 60s and 70s where there was no underground apart from new cross (+gate) it was obvious to me that LT, as was, needed the space on the map for the index/key/legend!
@TheAdultLife2 жыл бұрын
There are a decent amount of stations in South London even if they're served by rail rather than underground. What we're missing is an "across" line that works like the central line linking east to west. Currently you have to go to London Bridge, which adds a huge amount of time to the journey. If you could get a line that links somewhere like Dartford to Twickenham with stops in the middle that would be great. Also I get that this video is about underground lines and the cells, but also the oyster zone spreads a lot further into the north, east and west of London and into the surrounding counties. It doesn't quite do the same in the Southeast especially which can be fruatrating. Any idea why that is?
@Rohan-iq6zb7 ай бұрын
Pretty sure it's because of posh twats in places like epsom not wanting to be a part of London
@stephenhester98042 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't mind the Northern Line extending to Sutton, they might even consider Terminating it at Epsom Downs (Hint Hint)
@lewiscarty55172 жыл бұрын
I have heard that the Battersea Power Station extension of the Northern part Line may extend to Clapham Junction in the future, but I don’t see how they would do it.
@OhSome1HasThisName2 жыл бұрын
they're building a tram link to colliers wood instead - cheaper but far less useful :/
@lewiscarty55172 жыл бұрын
@@OhSome1HasThisName I never heard that, I only know about the extension since Battersea Power Station opened.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
@@OhSome1HasThisName Mostly, and only, because Wimbledon is full up and cannot process more trams - though I keep asking for the 7.5min service to run in the evenings too.
@roderickmain96972 жыл бұрын
Yes, could be done. Morden is pretty close to a rail line that goes to Sutton and could head on down to Epsom downs fairly easily. (I used to live in Belmont!) There was also talk of extending the trams to Sutton too.... and they could also utilise the line to Epsom Downs.
@briansteenson30362 жыл бұрын
Thank you great video! I've lived in both sides of the Thames and now reside near Crystal Palace and have always been amazed that no Tube exists between London and Croydon. The Overground is not an adequate substitute and the Tram is a local affair. The joy of a tube arriving every three or four minutes at Norwood Junction will remain a dream forever I fear :(
@SC-hk6ui2 жыл бұрын
Verney have been a local family for centuries. They owned much of the land nearby. Verney junction was planned to be a major interchange with three lines, including the Varsity, Aylesbury and North Buckingham lines. It predated the underground expansion.
@tentringer40652 жыл бұрын
Why do people keep protesting to Noah Vale? He never does anything about it.
@stevevasta2 жыл бұрын
"Helen Waite is our credit manager. If you need credit, go to Helen Waite." Your remark reminded me of that shop sign....
@drdewott91542 жыл бұрын
You mean No avail right?
@davidbull72102 жыл бұрын
@@drdewott9154 You just killed comedy. Well done
@drdewott91542 жыл бұрын
@@davidbull7210 shoot I only just now realise the pun and punchline. God being up this late and commenting was a mistake
@davidbull72102 жыл бұрын
@@drdewott9154 I sympathise. Same shit's happened to me. My excuse is alcohol.
@nathanw97702 жыл бұрын
I think the best method of giving South and SE London "tube" lines would be to convert existing commuter routes into something similar to London Overground or Tfl Rail. I believe this is the other option for adding places like Hayes and Beckenham Junction to the tube network which seems way more realistic tbh but it just depends on whether the government will allow it.
@denislaminaccia12 жыл бұрын
That's exactly what the government wants to do by turning NR into GBR - "franchises" will become "concessions" (as in LO). But ideally Greater London railways need to be managed by TfL - London Overground would hopefully take over the northern sections of Southeastern (e.g. to Orpington and Sevenoaks) and other routes. This way there would be a direct connection, operational consistency and reliable performance regime.
@denislaminaccia12 жыл бұрын
Look up "Strategic case for metroisation in south and southeast London"
@jtsholtod.792 жыл бұрын
Jago: "...but that's a whole other story..." Me: "Wonderful, can't wait to hear about it!" Geoff Marshall: "Actually, everything's 15 storeys..." Me: "Wonderful, can't wait to hear about it!"
@mister_M.2 жыл бұрын
How many steps
@donkeysaurusrex78812 жыл бұрын
If you see something like that that doesn’t make sense then a Yerkes did it.
@jtsholtod.792 жыл бұрын
@@mister_M. Douglas Adams: 42
@Mainyehc2 жыл бұрын
@@mister_M. Radiohead: 15
@sabinebogensperger19282 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly! 😄
@harbl992 жыл бұрын
"Today, Verney Junction. Tomorrow, the world!" You gotta admire the ambition at least.
@PianoKwanMan2 жыл бұрын
The met is pink-ish. One of the lab rats is called pinky. Coincidence?
@neilthehermit46552 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jago for another slice of history. I had always assumed South London didn't get much tube love due to the soil. Glad you pointed out the other reasons.Before the night busses were a thing I used to hate going south from Muswell Hill to see people because I would have to cut the time short before heading home. --- Yes I know I'm showing my age !
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
Jago didnt mention - and I asked Geoff Marshall too - to consider the length of national rail (south of the river) that runs in tunnels/ underground. There is quite a bit - mainly around the hill that Crystal Palace sat on.
@johnchurch47052 жыл бұрын
If the Northern Heights extension to Alexander Palace was completed, you could have got a Northern line tube train from Muswell Hill station to take you to South London.
@rayfisher3921 Жыл бұрын
@@johnchurch4705 I didn't know the Palace had had a sex change.
@johnchurch4705 Жыл бұрын
@@rayfisher3921 my bad lol 😂.
@stevemoss77932 жыл бұрын
Growing up in south west London, I was used to railway stations everywhere. It came as a surprise to discover how relatively few there are on this side of the Thames. Separately, again when I was a boy, I understood that the R Effra was a significant obstacle to underground lines south of Brixton?
@lmiddleman2 жыл бұрын
Simple answer from Mark K: "south of the river you stop and hold everything."
@zorktxandnand37742 жыл бұрын
In fact there is a Jago Hazzard video about that!
@dangerousandy2 жыл бұрын
Maybe Mr Knopfler will be Southbound Again (one day)
@EdMcF12 жыл бұрын
@@dangerousandy He has started poultry farming now, 'cos he gets chicks for free.
@harryburrows21122 жыл бұрын
Verney Junction was named after Sir Harry Verney who was not only the chairman of the Aylesbury and Buckingham Railway Company but also lived at Claydon House. The railway station was built within the parish of Middle Clayton which was part of his family's estate so in my opinion it is an appropriate name and not simply due to his position as chairman of the company.
@rayfisher3921 Жыл бұрын
Until watching this video I hadn't given a thought to the origin of the name Verney Jnct - I just assumed it was a local name. One of the things I've learnt. Most grateful.
@matthewwinn9792 жыл бұрын
I go through Verney Junction from time to time and I always thought it was rather cool that the Metropolitan Railway reached all the way out to meet the LNWR in deepest Buckinghamshire. These days the branches to Baker Street and Buckingham are mostly occupied by cows but the main line should be open Real Soon Now.
@CalvinsWorldNews2 жыл бұрын
I was in London maybe 5 years before I discovered the regular rail stuff and ventured south, I spent another 5 years exploring these places. There really is a 2nd half to the city! Very little of it is historical in the well known sense but I loved visiting places like Crystal Palace and Bermondsey (especially the beer crawl via the breweries under the ever-increasingly wide viaducts leading into London Bridge)
@TheGKFront2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I remember reading an article or watching a video about it that basically said that the soil type was just not suitable - like you said toward the end. But you gave many more reasons I didn't know!
@Steve_McMillen2 жыл бұрын
As someone who's lived in the SE London, I wondered this every day! We aren't even getting the bakerloo line we were promised, not until i'm too older anyway :(
@johnedwards37602 жыл бұрын
They've been proposing to extend the Bakerloo line south from the Elephant since at least 1931. @Steve McMillen don't hold your breath!
@russellgxy29052 жыл бұрын
Thinking about it, I think the over abundance of mainline commuter services kinda undermined the need for underground lines south of the Thames. Just going back before 1948, there was the Southern Electric suburban network, the electrified Brighton line, and the line to Portsmouth. Sure they weren’t underground, but they were still electric. Clean and fast trains, just as the deep level lines were promoting. I think the only non-LT railway prior to WWII that had an electric London commuter service was the LNWR and later LMS
@stevieinselby2 жыл бұрын
If you look at South London then only a handful of peripheral branches (eg Chessington, Tattenham Corner, Wimbledon-Sutton) opened after about 1890, so there just wasn't the same need or opportunity for new Underground lines. Why North London was relatively poorly served by the early railways is a different question.
@briannem.67872 жыл бұрын
@@stevieinselby I'd say it links to the aforementioned land value. More expensive land would mean it is more expensive to build a railway in the north.
@iankemp11312 жыл бұрын
Exactly, and even the LNWR/LMS electric service to Watford Junction was shared with the Bakerloo until 1982. Partly due to 1930s rebates of Rail Passenger Duty by the Government if railways invested the money saved. The Southern spent theirs on electrification, the others on signalling etc. So the LNER suburban lines remained steam-worked and they were glad to hand some over to LT under the New Works Programme. I lived in Portsmouth for years and my Dad never bothered buying a car - buses in the city and trains further afield got us everywhere we wanted to go. I soon discovered this didn't work elsewhere, even in Oxfordshire and Hertfordshire, let alone further out.
@iankemp11312 жыл бұрын
@@stevieinselby In fact, looking at a map, the density was not that different. But they got neglected in the 20th century, some closed (Ally Pally, Palace Gates), some went to LT, some were main lines. The Blackwall and Hackney lines succumbed to tram competition but then made a 21st century comeback with DLR and Overground.
@hx0d2 жыл бұрын
The Bakerloo needs to be extended. It's a no-brainer. If a full extension to Hayes via Lewisham happens, ill happily pay a slightly higher tax/fare for benefit of those areas, even though I live nowhere near any of the preposed stations! another great in-depth video though, really enjoyed this one
@emilyclarke82222 жыл бұрын
As a near end of line Hayes line resident, I'm worried that the added old kent road and elephant and castle stations would make my commute even longer! Also don't want to lose the direct cannon st line. I think the extension to lewisham would be really good though. The extension needs to be fast enough that getting to charing cross doesn't take the 48 minutes it already does even with the added stops.
@jeff43622 жыл бұрын
But why? Sure to Old Kent Rd it will be very good for the residents there to have a local station but anything beyond is already served. There is already a train line that goes to Hayes. I don't see the fuss about having the tube there, south London already has plenty of railways.
@Southlondonrider922 жыл бұрын
@@emilyclarke8222 you don't want people in certain areas to have a station because it might inconvenience you for a couple minutes 🤣🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️
@hx0d2 жыл бұрын
@@jeff4362 Seriously? The tube brings growth. Hayes station is falling apart, tfl would invest in all of it greatly, it would boost passengers on the line e.c.t
@Stettafire2 жыл бұрын
@@Southlondonrider92 More like because it will cause more congestion, gridlock and pollution. Everywhere you put a translation you might as well have three slip fulls of rubbish dumped there every week. Stations are outright disgusting awful placez
@IndigoJo2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Croydon and didn't miss the Tube. East Croydon has a fast train service to central London; you don't get that on any of the Underground lines except the Metropolitan. Who would prefer a long, dark, noisy, slow journey to that? By the way, I'm pretty sure that when lines passed under properties, they would have to pay a fee (wayleaves) to the owners, which is why most deep Tube lines follow streets.
@davidsummer86312 жыл бұрын
So the reason The Krays never ventured into South London was not because of the vicious reputation of The Richardson gang but because they could not get the tube
@WiggyWigmoreUK2 жыл бұрын
Nor a taxi…
@davidsummer86312 жыл бұрын
Taxi to South London..Never heard of the place
@Marvin-dg8vj2 жыл бұрын
Or as an acquaintance of mine said once : " I haven't got anything against South London it is just I can't see the point of it".
@mariefalmouth93022 жыл бұрын
@@Marvin-dg8vj We South Londoners think anything north of Baker Street is Hertfordshire.
@drscopeify2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating video as always! It is interesting to see how a city's growth progression leads to distinct differences like this for one reason or another. I see that a map of London from 1800 has very limited urban area south of the Thames but by 1900 both the North and South in terms of scale anyway, look pretty well even.
@declanclark53162 жыл бұрын
The Bakerloo Line extension, should it ever happen, would be a piece of p!ss to run from Lewisham to Hayes. It's crying out to be made a tube line. It's a scabby branch line currently run by Southeastern (well , not any more since they got caught with their hands in the till, but I digress). Change the signals, change the signage, et voila. It won't happen in my lifetime though. Because Bromley Council. In Bromley, the car is king. In Bromley, people go into a cold sweat at the sight of a TfL roundel because they like to think they are in Kent. They haven't been since 1965, but hey. Putting roundels up on those stations on the Hayes Line would have the local pitchfork wielders out, ready to repel invaders from "the Sharm". Of course, the trains already run that way, but if you had 12 per hour that's a different matter. Actually, I reckon that's what's really at the heart of it. The councillors for West Wickham and Hayes don't fancy 12 trains an hour in each direction going past the end of their gardens while they're having a Pimms in their sex ponds on a balmy summer evening. One could, of course, point out the impact of having a tube line nearby on local house prices... But that doesn't seem to wash. It may happen one day. Not in my lifetime though.
@robertskrzynski27682 жыл бұрын
The problem of getting Tube lines south of the Thames is there is nobody at the Top 0f the Underground like Yerkes with both hands and feet in the till and looking for new investors
@nicholasthorn15392 жыл бұрын
I've lived half my life in Bromley having settled here in 1985 and I assure you I don't think of it as Kent, though had I lived here all my life perhaps I would
@DavidKnowles02 жыл бұрын
I just think everything inside the M25 should be considered London. It would allow for much common sense approach to many issues I suspect.
@ks20912 жыл бұрын
I think people oppose the Bakerloo extension to Hayes because Southeastern trains would be faster than underground trains.
@Litany_of_Fury2 жыл бұрын
I live in the South of London and my commute brings me to Central London daily, yet I live within walking distance of 2 train stations but not any tube stations. It's honestly a pain in the ass due to the long wait times for trains compared to the constant train departures of the Victoria Line. If I miss my train it's a 45minute wait for the next at one train station or around 20minutes at the other. Sometimes I travel to the East of London just to get to the Tube in Central London.
@chazzyb86602 жыл бұрын
2:52 Someone really needs to get a pot of green Hammerite (other brands may be available?) on the corner of that bridge. I've noticed it before. And yes, I thought the problem was mostly related to the geology, with the material for digging through being much more tricky south of the river. But I suspect it's mostly the economics, land in south London being much cheaper, and even viaducts being much cheaper the tunnels.
@andyjay7292 жыл бұрын
Like Jago said, the geology contributed to the economics of the lines. That said, in light of the New Works Program taking over several formerly private northern lines, has anyone ever suggested some southern rail lines being taken over by the Tube?
@kaitlyn__L2 жыл бұрын
@@andyjay729 it’ll be the Overground taking them over now, but, yes, there’s been a fair bit of talk about that
@pappy94732 жыл бұрын
Being a Norf Londoner (Holloway) I always thought it was normal to walk short distances to a tube station. Travelling north, south east or west never seemed a problem. Now with much more integration between public transport, using it south of the river is no longer such an issue. I still get a little frustrated when in Wandsworth though.
@mariefalmouth93022 жыл бұрын
Wandsworth: you're not the only one.
@BroonParker2 жыл бұрын
Those 19th century engravings of London having tube lines installed look like an even worse version of the streets of Edinburgh when they were laying their new tram. It must have been hellish. Glad to see your acknowledgement of a really interesting question. Not at all boring. Ever.
@iankemp11312 жыл бұрын
Sounds absolutely right, apparently there was a huge amount of disruption and opposition. Which was why after the Met, District and Circle lines were built in the 1860s to 1880s, no more cut-and-cover lines were constructed at all.
@grantbeerling43962 жыл бұрын
Other soils types are available namely; blackheath beds ( nightmare soil, round pebbles mixed with a fine silt that is like concrete when compacted, historically a riverbed soil) , flint and clay for 'southeastern' unlike 'southern with their alkaline chalk/flint soils. Joking aside, a very good point concerning tunnelling.
@willhovell90192 жыл бұрын
Good stuff Jago, quiet balanced for a south Londoner and glad that most of the facts of geology , surface lines , trams and railway politics listed . Most manufacturing and labour requirements took place north of the river , with the exceptions of the Woolwich Arsenal and some ribbons of manufacturing to the South West of the City, with surface lines coming into London Bridge , Cannon St , Blackfriars , Victoria and Waterloo connected by the Drain. All the North London termini north of the New Road could only really be connected by in Underground. The real issue is East - West. This has only recently been corrected with the DRL Jubilee line extension and the growth of well managed Overground lines in the North East . the debate North South, will continue , but in terms of cultural and sporting hubs , most are clearly North of the river , unless you don't take into account the South Bank complex and Greenwich. Much as I love the Elephant and Clapham , they are hardly destinations .
@johnedwards37602 жыл бұрын
The Crystal Palace was a South-side cultural and sporting hub for the best part of 80 years, well served by railways (partly underground, as someone above said, but not Underground).
@nigelrockliffe7742 жыл бұрын
Surely topography was crucial. North London is hilly. Not enough to hinder urban development, but enough to hinder the kind of dense surface-rail network needed to serve it.
@OhSome1HasThisName2 жыл бұрын
South London is also pretty hilly but I suppose those hills are a bit further out tbf
@MervynPartin2 жыл бұрын
The surface rail network was possibly more extensive than you may think, as many of the tube extensions to North London were, with a few exceptions, over the existing lines of the railway companies-LNER, LMS and GWR. It is a pity that the Alexandra Palace branch was not completed as that would likely have covered some of the area where TfL want Crossrail 2. I could have walked there, but had to get a bus to either Highgate or Bounds Green in order to catch a tube. I did sometimes walk to New Southgate & Friern Barnet station (now just New Southgate) for the main line, which is the intended terminus of Crossrail 2. The Piccadilly line extension to Cockfosters, as an exception, was a new route mostly on the surface but had to bore under Old Southgate before re-emerging on the surface, so that bit of topography was not ideal for a surface line.
@weetikissa2 жыл бұрын
Yes. Cycling was HUGE when tubes were built and before cars started killing people.
@OhSome1HasThisName2 жыл бұрын
@@weetikissa I love that people always forgot that everyone in the UK used to cycle places before cars made it unsafe
@jeff43622 жыл бұрын
Both north and south have a lot of hilly areas. Only east is mainly flat.
@batman512 жыл бұрын
North of London lines weren't just interested in freight, they wanted long distance passengers (ideally first class and not suburban hoi polloi) which option was really not available south of the river (due to the Channel!)
@batman512 жыл бұрын
@ger du Where have you been since 1832?
@onbedoeldekut15152 жыл бұрын
I was aware/under the impression that the geology of the ground south of the river had issues regarding the viability and cost of digging into sandy earth, so you could happily say it's a bit of a 'boring' topic. I'll get me coat. Again.
@onbedoeldekut15152 жыл бұрын
Dagnabbit, of course I typed that long before you mentioned it (the most important aspect, to boot) at just past seven minutes.
@paulchoccyt13032 жыл бұрын
Northern Line should have at least reached Clapham Junction and Maybe even as far as Sutton on that new line via Croydon.
@paulchoccyt13032 жыл бұрын
South Northern Line :-D
@marcelwiszowaty17512 жыл бұрын
@@paulchoccyt1303 Well, in the light of the Battersea Power Station extension, thoughts turn once more to the splitting of the Northern Line (two branches through central London makes it particularly confusing for visitors) So the BPS branch stays as the Northern Line and the Morden branch... the Southern Line obvs! 😉
@DDTC732 жыл бұрын
I've been in South London for 25 years now and love it. The new tube stations Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station are a god send. Trying to get onto the Northern Line at Stockwell in the morning is a nightmare because it's packed solid from about 7.30 - 9am, but now I can walk to Nine Elms and get a seat each morning. Apparently they're going to extend the extension to Clapham Junction at some point too,
@TalesOfWar2 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure that would work as well as people might thing given how massively busy Clapham Junction already is. They'd need a massive station to handle all that traffic and it'd clog things up for the next few stations along the line. How it is now means people will jump on at different points rather than all in one spot. Now, if as part of that plan they also had other lines to take some of that mass of people and filter it all out more that would be a more ideal solution, though it'd cost a lot more and take much longer. I think that's kind of the long term plan though, but you know what government is like with long term phased plans lol.
@DDTC732 жыл бұрын
@@TalesOfWar Yep, they'll drag it out in the most expensive way possible to ensure they get the most profit in their own pockets. If they do extend to the Junction, the northern line should come up to ground, like the District line in Richmond. That way they'll only need a new platform or 2. No stops inbetween, just direct from the Power Station to Clapham Junction. But then i know absolutely nothing about engineering, so that whole idea might be completely unfeasible!
@mariefalmouth93022 жыл бұрын
Sore point making Battersea Power Station Zone 1.
@cebudave2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic information as always. 5:09 signs are located in the Buckinghamshire railway centre in Quainton, well worth a visit lots of underground relics to see there.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
I tend to find that the national rail north of london does not really want commuters ( maybe with the exception of Potters Bar) , with dull ill lit stations and a lack of ticket staff etc. The southern stations are relatively open and welcoming ( compare Earlsfield with Upper Clapton say)
@agntdrake2 жыл бұрын
Was hoping Jago would sign off with "You are the Metropolitan Railway to my Verney Junction".
@emjackson22892 жыл бұрын
"Ooooooh me Verney Junction"
@NikolaHoward2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I'd have no issue using trains, if there were about double the numbers there are now running! :-) The wait can be tedious indeed, rather than the knowledge that there will almost certainly be another tube along in 2-3 minutes.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
Of course a problem from the competing lines. So catford gets every 30 mins, and catford bridge every 30 and you walk between them to find the next train or give up and get the bus.
@hens0w2 жыл бұрын
So take the Hays Branch (though catford) TfL keep asking to take it over and put down but in order to do so they would have to kick the one per 30 minuet delayed (at/near Lewisham) South Eastern trains off, on account of the never running on time (because of the bottle necks at London Bridge and Lewisham) This would let you have 12 to18 trains (so 3 to 5 minuet headway (Bakerloo line proposal Oct19 TfL)) from Hays that could go to the Bakerloo (runing though Westminster and 4 main line Terminus) or the DLR (to Canary Wharf and Bank) but LB Bromley kick up a fuss about having to change to get to London Bridge (DLR proposal wich would have been 12 trains to Bank)
@johndufton96862 жыл бұрын
Try waiting 2 hours for a train then in Mid Wales.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
@@johndufton9686 anything more than 5mins at my local tube and I am annoyed.
@neilchisholm7972 жыл бұрын
@@hens0w @jago, this proposal seems to have legs (so to speak as it went thru Catford)(sorry very bad pun). Have you done a vlog on this? It seems to be a good way to extend the Bakerloo to the south.
@neilchisholm7972 жыл бұрын
Just an idea. There’s much murmuring afoot about the fact that thecNorthern Line stopped short of continuing its merry way to Clapham Jtn, for many of the passengers to disembark to the tube hence filling it to capacity before it had left its terminus. I had an idea and that was for it to loop back to Ballham joining with the existing Northern Line there and then having like a Heathrow loop on the northern line. This still leaves possible extensions to lines that run thru Clapham Jtn down the track. It was just a hairbrained scheme from some one who lives just outside Melbourne in Australia who doesn’t yet have a true metro. I can see some merrit in it though. I lived in London in its 1980s heydays. What fun they were!
@nathanw97702 жыл бұрын
Thing is Heathrow is pretty far from Morden which is the southern terminus of the Northern Line, about 14 miles roughly. So extending the line out there would take many many years. And then there's the issue of navigating the line around the Heathrow loops. In other words there would have to be an extremely high demand for it to be worth it. An extension to join the Morden branch sounds good though.
@paulmac84502 жыл бұрын
North London railways frequently run in tunnels due to the height of the land South London trains run high up on embankments to keep them out of the south London marsh
@coyotelong43492 жыл бұрын
Similar situation in Berlin- Lots of U-Bahn lines running through former West Berlin, very few in East Berlin where trams dominate instead
@Bunter.9482 жыл бұрын
Mr H, another captivating and informative video. And as you can make tubes-n-trams in Sarf London sound entertaining, you are indeed a star. Thanks, Simon T
@Amdecreations.2 жыл бұрын
I never really thought about all the other services in South London even though I take them, I suppose depending where you live in south London, A DLR would be easier to take if your in Lewisham, Depford,or a Tram if you're in Croydon, Beckenham etc. some the overground while others a Tube if your in Bermondsey, Elephant & Castle, Oval, Clapham, Brixton etc.
@RJSRdg2 жыл бұрын
Interestingly, if you make the dividing line the Central Line (as it runs through the centre of the City), you get 108 stations north of it and 110 south, which is pretty even!
@jamesc1199 Жыл бұрын
The biggest problem in North London is the lack of west to east links. Most of the time, living in London, I would have to go into London and come back out in order to reach another destination that isn’t even too far away. Compared to South London, they don’t have this problem so much due to the trams and the extensive rail links that go somewhat east to west.
@andysimmons26482 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. I knew about the geological reasoning behind the lack of tubes south of the river but very little of the history. It’s interested me for years and I’ve always meant to research it but never got around to it. You’ve done that for me now and it was very fascinating.
@creativia6639 Жыл бұрын
As a person who lives in South London, I have to say that the regularity of the Tube and railway trains are incomparable... There is a tube every 3-4 minutes, but only 2-8 trains in an hour - depending on how close the station is to Central. On a map the lines looks evenly distributed, but if you consider the time it takes to get around in the North compared to in the South, the difference is still big. I feel like this is something you didn't mention in this video.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
Of course if we just moved the Thames up a bit, say to the regents canal and brentford extension we would have more tube stations south of the thames,
@ianthomson93632 жыл бұрын
What a wonderful idea! I'll buy a shovel tomorrow and make a start.
@andrewgwilliam48312 жыл бұрын
@@ianthomson9363 That's the spirit!
@nathanw97702 жыл бұрын
@@ianthomson9363 I've got a spade we can use
@ianthomson93632 жыл бұрын
@@nathanw9770 Too late, I've already bought one. Still, with two of us digging, we should get the job done before Crossrail's finished!
@General_Confusion2 жыл бұрын
And there's me thinking it was because the monsters and vampires lived south of the river. Things are always more complicated than you think.
@roberthill62162 жыл бұрын
Ah that must also be the reason taxis don't go south of the river as well!
@robonaut-nyne23312 жыл бұрын
They still do, but disguised as Millwall fans.
@johnenfield19302 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the dinosaurs in Crystal Palace Park.
@luxford602 жыл бұрын
Although the first deep level tube was south of the river apart from its terminus at King William Street.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
and of course half of the waterloo and city
@louiseogden12962 жыл бұрын
Shared this with my mum and sister, who are both geographers. Fascinating video!!
@amethyst70842 жыл бұрын
Jago - you're very coherent! (07:18) 😉 Great video which answers one of the questions which is asked so many times. 👍🏾
@ekx51202 жыл бұрын
Your videos are always a delight to watch. Witty and informative. Thank you.
@vaclav_fejt2 жыл бұрын
What I learned from this video: It's diffitult to built a tunnel through Jago Hazzard.
@henrybest40572 жыл бұрын
Slight correction, Jago. The early tube lines also followed the streets, as landowners used to own the land "all the way down" and would want compensation, much to Mr. Yerkes' displeasure. That explains the sharp curves on parts of the Central line. The law regarding that was changed (I don't know when) so that newer lines could be built under existing buildings. I don't know "how far down" I, a house owner, now own but suspect it isn't very far. I think part of the reason for the change in the law was to do with mining, oil and gas rights.
@simonmcowan68742 жыл бұрын
The same with churches, they apparently own the land below them all the way down.
@AaronOfMpls2 жыл бұрын
IANAL* (and I'm American), but I suspect property owners still _do_ own their land "all the way down". It's just laws have been passed to allow easements for underground utilities and subway tunnels. Especially if they're deep enough to avoid disturbing foundations and such. *edit: I Am Not A Lawyer
@hylje2 жыл бұрын
One of the early hurdles of airplane traffic was the legal right to cross private land: landowners, obviously, had full rights to control trespassing on their land all the way up.
@henrybest40572 жыл бұрын
@@AaronOfMpls IANAL too, but in the UK, if you discover oil beneath your land, Clampits style, the oil doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the government.
@rayfisher3921 Жыл бұрын
So that's why there are so few tube lines in New Zealand!
@SplatterInker2 жыл бұрын
Never in human history has any man made tube and railway history interesting... yet somehow you have! Thanks for another interesting foray.
@JagoHazzard2 жыл бұрын
Ta!
@seidodge2 жыл бұрын
I am a huge fan of your quick voiceover edits such as at 6:07 when things start to go round in circles
@silverismoney2 жыл бұрын
As a former Londoner, the capital is spoilt for choice. I spent most of my life living in the south west in Kingston/Surbiton/Wimbledon and now I live an hour out of the city I realise just how great the public transport in the city really was, even in the south west. For me, where I live, well I'm just hoping they bring back the peak time fast EMR to St Pancras.
@johndufton96862 жыл бұрын
I'm a tourist when I come to London and I feel a bit lost venturing away from the comfort of the tube lines so I have not ventured south much.
@sirrathersplendid48252 жыл бұрын
You haven’t missed much: it’s full of overground railway lines.
@xfmk92962 жыл бұрын
Not much to see for a tourist, apart from Greenwich tbh
@sirrathersplendid48252 жыл бұрын
Kew Gardens and Hampton Court are also pretty cool - and sort of accessible by tube.
@amethyst70842 жыл бұрын
Just watching and listening again Jago, and I have to follow up my earlier comment from a few months back by adding that as well as having the pleasure of your videos, your knowledge is so encyclopaedic. Thanks very much again for another amazing video 📹 👏🏾⭐
@brunosdaddogwalker9529 Жыл бұрын
MANY YEARS AGO I USE TO BE A MINI CAB DRIVER OPERATING OUT OF VICTORIA COACH STATION AND ONLY LONG TRIP WE GOT WERE TO SOUTH LONDON
@stewartellinson88462 жыл бұрын
Also worth remembering that when the Met opened most of London WAS North of the river. The city spread along railway lines in many cases.... A bit like the Met. Also, where there's no houses there's nothing to go under hence a surface (or in the case of the L&G) a raised railway!
@ourresidentcockney87762 жыл бұрын
I must admit, despite the visuals being rather incoherrent in this video. It was very enjoyable to see a bit of everything. Definitely would appreciate a few more videos like this covering in style and subject (in the sense of a broader question).
@theone85022 жыл бұрын
I remember after a night out I woke up at a bird's house in Lewisham, I woke her up to ask where was the nearest tube station and she just laughed and went back to sleep. after catching two buses to get to the nearest railway station i vowed to never leave north london hahah
@grahamross63972 жыл бұрын
Geology! We got there eventually. Great vid. Thank you.
@alejandrayalanbowman3672 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the District Line heading East to Upminster where it connects with the GE line to Romford and the LT&S lines (Now C2C) to Shoeburyness, Grays and Tilbury while also providing the "suburban" part of the LT&S enabling 'express' services from Fenchurch St.
@RJSRdg2 жыл бұрын
The District Line used to run to Southend and to Windsor.
@alejandrayalanbowman3672 жыл бұрын
@@RJSRdg Sorry, but it didn't
@johnchurch47052 жыл бұрын
My nan 👵 ( RIP 🪦) remembered when Barking station had a level crossing, she was born in 1898.
@alejandrayalanbowman3672 жыл бұрын
@@johnchurch4705 So do I and I was born in 1941
@johnchurch47052 жыл бұрын
@@alejandrayalanbowman367 I’ve only seen photos of the crossing.
@morganrees68072 жыл бұрын
"the odd deposit of pete" - well "pete" should be made to clear his deposits up!!! ;-)
@amphibiandictatorship28862 жыл бұрын
Hey Jago, I have a question mostly related to lines in the north. As many were built by competing companies, there were many instances of places where there could have been interchanges, but the chance was lost. In particular on the North London Line/Overground which inconveniently floats slowly over a whole bunch of other lines without interchanges, but also in places near Bounds Green between the Great Northern and the Piccadilly. The question is... Are there any places where this could easily be fixed, and are there any areas where a bit more effort + money to create a more expensive interchange could be a good idea?
@iankemp11312 жыл бұрын
Very good point, and it's also true of South London. The "Gloucester Road" junction north of Croydon (not the Kensington one) would have made a good hub and effectively doubled the services on some routes. West Hampstead was under-utilised for years and even now lacks Chiltern Line platforms. Willesden Junction likewise; the removal of the through platforms was short-sighted. They could still be reinstated with an effort. The Hackney Downs / Hackney Central walkway was a useful step forward, as were Blackhorse Road improvements (it wasn't an interchange when the Victoria Line was first opened; BR re-sited their station in 1981).
@zorktxandnand37742 жыл бұрын
A more coherent video then you give your self credit for. If I may suggest a topic for a video, There is a lot to take in on that Metropolitan logo. Surely there must be a story or 2 behind that. Keep up the good work!
@DoubleDeckerAnton2 жыл бұрын
I find South London more relaxing than the North, but travelling in the North is a lot easier than the south, where you need to 'bus it' or 'Uber'.
@mariefalmouth93022 жыл бұрын
I felt I was taking my life in my hands when I rode the buses around NW London last year.
@NextSound1702 жыл бұрын
South London as a whole is difficult to navigate, by rail. By Bus it is longer but there’s more buses in South London, the frequencies especially are better than North, or was. I think its an even keel now
@MrGreatplum2 жыл бұрын
As ever, very enjoyable. Having decent rail connections is now bad thing. Chesham has two trains an hour to London taking around an hour to the city. My closest proper main line railway station (Redhill) has 4 trains an hour taking you to the city or west end in less than 40 minutes. Having a tube station isn’t the be all and end all when you are this far out!
@julianaylor43512 жыл бұрын
Some of the modern bus routes are part of the original tram routes, which were switched to bus use after the old tram system was removed. The 18 bus route that originally went between Sudbury near Harrow through to London Bridge, but the bus route that replaced it was stopped first at Kings Cross and now Euston. Some parts of the modern tram system in the Croydon area use old rail track beds. So there's always changes of mind over transport facilities. An attempt was made after the Second World War to build a route across the top of London from North West to East, and all that's left of that is an abandon set of tunnels in North East London. Crossrail was first introduced as an idea, in the late 80s. I have advertising colouring book made to promote it, it's three times the size of the leaflet that advertised the final go ahead, a decade later. So clearly finances have always caused trouble with building a London transportation network.
@jobell73562 жыл бұрын
Superb video. Love your delivery style too, thank you
@PaulAtYT12 жыл бұрын
At last! I'd long heard an urban legend that there was once a plan for the Underground to reach Oxford and now the (distorted) truth behind the rumour is apparently revealed.
@Azul_Pshye2 жыл бұрын
When you look at the build of north of the river a lot is old “main line” that folded into the tube.. south far fewer companies came “up” the focal point of the City was always on the north…… historically
@malcolmabram29572 жыл бұрын
It has to be said riding around London on a motorbike for 4 years (admittedly in the 80s), there is big difference between N and S London. Almost two difference metropolises. I found May way around N okay, but in the S, it was difficult not to get lost.
@Bolivar2012able2 жыл бұрын
Manchester had a far better idea. Rip up the old heavy rail lines and put down light rail tram lines instead. Instead of passenger traffic in the morning and evening travelling on worn out equipment, interspersed with the odd goods train. The lines have come back to life with regular tram services. What better way to recycle/reuse old routes.
@TheDimsml2 жыл бұрын
Then Glasgow decided to one-up everybody else and installed a bunch of cable trams. Underground, that is.
@patrickovsiu2 жыл бұрын
Good to see Manchester outdoing London in both public and private transport. They also have a (relatively) proper orbital motorway while London has to stick with a very close-to-circle "C" shaped motorway.
@TalesOfWar2 жыл бұрын
Fun fact. The old lines weren't ripped out until very recently (I want to say 2010 or so when they were doing the last big line extension with new rolling stock). The original run from Bury to Manchester used the old track that was left over after the Beeching cuts as a cost saving measure, as a result they were rather wonky and not at all smooth lol. Central government decided they didn't want to pay for it any more quite late into the planning stage so a big chunk of funding vanished over night. Only Manchester and Bury councils put the money in so they had to make savings somewhere after Rochdale decided not to bother either. In hindsight, Rochdale fucked themselves royally by pulling out given the massive decline it went into in the early 90's (which really began in the 80's) and it hasn't really recovered from it. On the other hand, Bury and Manchester saw a massive boost in their economies thanks in no small part to the easy transport links they invested in. Rochdale got the trams 20 years later, far too late though sadly.
@JelMain Жыл бұрын
So, we're here because. If you look at the tube system, they ran from out-of-town to out-of-town, making turn-round a non-story. You have a terminus, and you've got to clear the passengers, get the driver to the other end, and load the next lot. That's why it's normally one service every half hour, not one every two-three minutes. The Northern Line even has a turning loop at Kennington. The Northern Piccadilly uses Arnos Grove, Oakwood, and Cockfosters as termini, with Oakwood being the depot.
@johncrwarner2 жыл бұрын
When I visit my friend in Balham (Gateway to the South) If I was travelling south or out of town the railway is often better than the underground and the services are frequent on the railway. The journey to Huddersfield was Clapham Junction, Milton Keynes, Manchester, Huddersfield
@graemeclifford63582 жыл бұрын
Ive always thought it weird that the District Line goes OVER the Thames and stays above ground all the way to the terminus at Wimbledon. Yet is still "The Underground" :) Plus the added quirk.... that in East Putney, the underground railway crosses over the overground railway :D
@hannah600002 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video! As a fellow South Londoner, it’s been a subconscious question on my mind (who the rail transport system is different, particular in the Southeast). Now I have some evidence and a story to explain the peculiarities of rail travel in the south of London!
@tinplategeek10582 жыл бұрын
Quainton is now a heritage rail line. Well worth a visit
@smeghead76982 жыл бұрын
Have you seen a pre Edwardian map of south London? South of Clapham it was all farms.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
Most of the southern bulwarks ran out into the thames as a set of marshy islands from the rivers running from the rising hills of the northern most downs
@hens0w2 жыл бұрын
LB Bromley, we want a high frequency tube service to central london, Also LB Bromley but not if we have to give up our delay ridden 2 train service to er southwark cathedral and a long bridge. you could give the Hays branch a mix of DLR (to Canary Wharf and Bank); and the Bakerloo (runing though Westminster and 4 main line Terminus) but the LB will object to having to change at Lewisham for what a cathedral and one office tower.
@hx0d2 жыл бұрын
this has to happen
@emilyclarke82222 жыл бұрын
Agreed the hayes line can't just have the bakerloo alone, it would take over an hour to get to charing X! Interesting idea with the DLR, but I think extending the overground line from New Cross would make better local connections and an easier ride to the nightlife in Shoreditch which at the moment I have to avoid or crash at someone else's, and overall would be a shorter and less costly extension
@hens0w2 жыл бұрын
@@emilyclarke8222 TFL reconds it would take 35 minuets compared to 45 at present You are exactly the problem I was talking about
@Inkling7772 жыл бұрын
There's another factor that's common in the U.S. and may be a factor in London. Neighborhoods, rich and poor, don't like above-ground trains. They're noisy and disrupt traffic. They prefer those lines to run underground. But while wealthy neighbors have the money and connections to drive surface transport underground, poor neighborhoods do not. Madrid has an interesting variation. On my first visit there, I thought the rail and subway system was insane. To get from a train station on the east side to the west side I had to walk about a mile from the subway to the station. Only on my second visit did I discover that the rail system had its own independent underground connecting just the rail stations. Crazy, but I guess it generated a lot of jobs.
@slyowusu992 жыл бұрын
Nothing beats an underground network in terms of versatility & functionality. That’s why all modern cities attempt to build more of them. Croydon could have been the next Canary Wharf with a couple of new tube lines. Our elites know that. But they won’t fund lines south of the river because it might create competition for the duke of Westminster’s estates north of the river (which incidentally are served by many, many tube stations).
@peskypigeonx Жыл бұрын
I can’t imagine Croydon being Canary Wharf…
@spectro742 Жыл бұрын
I have also wondered about the lack of tube lines in south london thanks for filling me in. I'm from new cross (see 8:50 for new cross station) and originally there was a tube line with old tube stock that went up to white chapel and Shoreditch. This was extended down to crystal palace and west to clapham junction and replaced with the overground. New cross station is quite good for getting around London because the overground takes me to canada water where I can get the Jubilee line basically anywhere and whitechapel where I can get on the hammersmith and city line as well as the elizabeth line and the district line. The commuter trains (as mentioned in the video) that go through New Cross are very frequent (often more frequent than the overground service) and get to London Bridge and Cannon street in under 10 minutes.
@wolfmanAl2 жыл бұрын
I am fascinated how much this mirrors my city Frankfurt for much different reasons. North of the river Main is a lot of U-Bahn, as a matter of fact the U-Bahn has only two stations south of the river, but the tram network is much more extensive south of the Main.
@C.O-EDITS2 жыл бұрын
They should expand tube in South London on elevated railways, like the overground railways and share the tracks with the overground
@SamAronow2 жыл бұрын
Why did COVID put the Bakerloo Line extension on hold? In some other countries, the lack of traffic and other interference occasioned by the pandemic actually accelerated several rail capital projects.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
cos the tories splashed all the cash on their mates for non existent supplies to the NHS.
@Dave_Sisson2 жыл бұрын
I don't think there is a need to be politically hyper-partisan or to slag anyone off. Put simply, Covid increased council and government expenditure, but decreased their income, so they have to cut back on things a bit. It's the same as if a normal person has a rent increase at the same time as their wages are cut. They can sort of manage, but all spending on the non essentials has to be cut until things get back to normal.
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
@@Dave_Sisson There is also the possiblitly that Covid has changed how and where people work and have leisure interests such that the viability in the future is less (CR2 also impacted), unless the people of Bromley want large flatted residential developments in West Wickham to generate large passenger flows the nice to have line becomes the no one is using it one. Financial Funding - assuming no more pandemics in 100 years could be done with 40/50/80 year bonds at a notional 3percent return sold as Covid Recovery Bonds and London Transport Infrastructure Bonds one of which would pay for 600 flats on that Hayes Station Car Park site
@Dave_Sisson2 жыл бұрын
@@highpath4776 Oh I agree that Covid has affected everything and the knock on effects are going to be very complex. It will be years before everything is clear. That's the point I was trying to make to the person who was using the pause to insult the government without any evidence. (BTW I've never voted Tory, but there's no excuse to make insulting stuff up.)
@highpath47762 жыл бұрын
@@Dave_Sisson there are enough smoking guns, but as to if it was cock up (lack of planning by Govt in the past) , or conspiratorial opportunities , I have my way of concluding from the evidence thus far.
@carlrowlinson28332 жыл бұрын
I'm astonished that the Tube went all the way out to and beyond the town I grew up in (Aylesbury)!
@alanwilton68062 жыл бұрын
I live a few minutes away from 2 railway stations in Greenwich. Both of these are on the Greenwich Line and I can easily travel to Luton if I go northwest, or Rainham if I’m going south east on just one train. If I want to go to Lewisham, a neighbouring borough lest than 4 miles away, it takes 2 trains as I have to change at Greenwich and get the DLR but that’s not a problem. If I want to go two and a bit times that distance and travel to Bromley, that’s not so easy. I can either go the wrong way first and catch a train to and then from London Bridge, or I can change at Lewisham and catch a train to Grove Park, then change again at Grove Park for a train to Bromley north, in other words 4 trains to travel about 9 miles. We may have a lot of stations but the lines often don’t go directly to where people want or need to go to, and of course the tram link and DLR doesn’t cover large areas of southeast London either. I’m grateful that I don’t live in Thamesmead, Biggin Hill or Locksbottom because they haven’t even got a railway station in those areas.
@nikkion21402 жыл бұрын
Yah, it is sad that Thamesmead does not have a railway/DLR station. It is well needed there. Given TFL records, I guess we have to wait 25 years for that to materialise. I will be 6 ft under by then!
@8avexp2 жыл бұрын
I visited London in 1978 and rode on the Piccadilly and District Lines. Back then, the District Line still used 1920s rolling stock with spur-cut bull and pinion gears, which sounded a lot like the prewar subway trains in New York.
@1575murray2 жыл бұрын
Even later stock such as the A60/A62 and C69/C77 and the 1959 and 1962 tube stock sounded a lot like the older New York subway trains although not quite as loud as for example the IND R1-9 or the IRT Lo-V cars. The 1940 English Electric cars used on the Waterloo-Bank "drain" sounded like the older NY cars too.