James White's Exegesis of Romans 9 (2015)

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James White's Exegesis of Romans 9 (2015)

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8 жыл бұрын

Is the Reformed understanding of Romans 9 truly biblical and consistent with what Paul himself was talking about? Or is one of the many different non-Calvinist interpretations correct?
Here's the full debate: www.youtube.co....
Here's all of Romans 9 [NASB]:
I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25 As He says also in Hosea,
“I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’
And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”
26 “And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word on the earth, thoroughly and quickly.” 29 And just as Isaiah foretold,
“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left to us a posterity,
We would have become like Sodom, and would have resembled Gomorrah.”
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 just as it is written,
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,
And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Пікірлер: 243

@Shiloh3498 4 жыл бұрын

Now THAT is what exegesis looks like! Well done James!

@swecalf 8 жыл бұрын

Non-Calvinists can't consistently exegete Romans 9. Well, they can, but if they do they'll no longer be non-Calvinists.

@ritasha2010 8 жыл бұрын

+swecalf Their best option would be to treat Romans the way Microsoft treated windows ;)

@SimonWartanian 8 жыл бұрын

+ritasha2010 woooo....shots were fired here...

@markrogers6090 7 жыл бұрын

Neither can those who deny the place that God still has for Israel. The key theme here is God's continuing plan for the Jewish people.

@kayakeraltamaha5720 7 жыл бұрын

"Jewish" people, Mark? "Jewish"? All pure-pedigree descendants of Jacob-Israel were Israelites, perhaps they were even Jews. But, not all Jews are Israelites. The Israelite Judah procreated with a Canaanitess wife (1Chr 2:3), siring three sons (Gen 38). Their youngest son Shelah (Gen 38:5), survived (HINT) to procreate (Gen 38:26). Judah was disowned for that marital infraction (Mal 2:11, 12); and, Judah's marriage was contrary to Abraham (Gen 24:3), and contrary to Isaac's instruction to Jacob (Gen 28:1-4). Furthermore, some 1.2k years after the fact, and according to Ezra, an Israelite's marriage to a Canaanite was considered a "great trespass" (Ezra 9:1, 2, 7 KJV). Then, was Judah's son Shelah, an Israelite? Were his "Shelanite" descendants, Jews (Num 26:20)? Were those Shelanites entitled heirs to Judah's portion of the Abrahamic Promised Land in Judea/Judah and Jerusalem? Were those Shelanite alleged "Jews" God's intended lineage through whom Messiah would arrive? You appear to use the title, 'Jew', synonymously with Israelite. Jesus descended through Judah's, and his daughter-in-law Tamar's, eldest twin son, Pharez(s) (Gen 38:29; Mat 1:3; Luke 3:33). Since Judah's Shelanite "Jews", for some 2k years, occupied Judea/Jerusalem as rightful heirs to the Covenant Promised Land... and, then Jesus being of the lineage of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar... Those circumcised Shelanite alleged "Jews" were the Pharisees that plotted Jesus' crucifixion (John 11:45-53). I encourage caution using the title "Jew" synonymously with the title, "Israelite"... you might be sleeping with the enemy that instigated Jesus' crucifixion, that were not Israelite Jews, btw... John 8:33 "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?" Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel(ites), which are of Israel:" Might even consider Paul's words from a different perspective: "For they are not all Jews, which are of Israel.' Think about it while pondering Revelation 2:9, 3:9: "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." This finer distinction Jesus alluded to in Luke12:49-53 KJV sounds pretty important in Revelation 3 KJV: "10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

@evanu6579 7 жыл бұрын

swecalf I'd like to give a go at exegeting Romans 9 from a non Calvinist perspective. It'll take two posts though. There's a lot to cover... Post #1 Romans 9:7-22, I believe to be discussing those chosen for the Messianic lineage. This special class of people were given special treatment from God. He was merciful to their rebellion, unlike how He dealt with other nations. Paul begins the chapter with a look at these promises that were given to his people… Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. ……Paul is looking at the history of the Israelites of whom he has continual sorrow, in that they have not believed in the Messiah. He then goes on to make a comparison between the Israelites of his day and those to whom these promises were given, the word “neither” being the comparison….. 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. The “seed” being the central focus of all the promises, that being Jesus Christ……. Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Paul then goes on to show through whom this promise would come….. Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. The phrase “The elder shall serve the younger” is to signify the blessings and favouritism of God upon those whom the promise (Christ) would come….. Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; The phrase “the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth”, is to continue with the comparison he made in vv6 & vv7. There is however a major difference that Paul later discusses (pertaining to unbelieving Israel)…… Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. The election that takes place now requires repentance, where as the gifts and calling which the fathers received, did not. Therefore Jacob was chosen within the womb, whereas we are chosen by faith. Both are void of works. Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. The phrase “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated”, shows how God fulfilled His promises towards Israel….. Gen 22:17 ……. and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; This phrase is taken from Malachi chapter 1… 2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. 4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever. What was it that Edom did to deserve such a fate?…… Eze 35:15 As thou didst rejoice at the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee: thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Idumea, even all of it: and they shall know that I am the LORD. Had Israel done any works of righteousness that they deserved a better destination? Let's look at what was spoken about Israel a little further on in Malachi….. Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? 7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible. 8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts. God gave special favouritism towards Israel, because of the promised Messiah….. Jer 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. The phrase “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” is taken from Exodus, and shows how God spared the lives of the Israelites despite their wicked rebellion. Let's look at the events that led up to God giving mercy, and compare it to Romans 9:22-23, which I believe to be an reiteration of what took place……

@ETHANGELIST 7 жыл бұрын

Please support me and my ministry on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trinityapologetics ANY amount would go a long way especially since I live in the Philippines. Even $1! I have plans to get married and enter full time ministry some day.

@BibleGuy04 2 ай бұрын

Romans 8-11 needs to be read and understood together to get the full context. James did a great job exegeting the chapter.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

Romans 9 is specifically about Jacob's descendants vs Esau's descendants, nobody else. There's no justification for extrapolating it out into the rest of the world.

@sbryan060 4 жыл бұрын

Do you think that in Romans 9:16-18 that God is not able to "have mercy on WHOMEVER he wills and harden WHOMEVER he wills"?

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@sbryan060 You keep asking this question as if it changes the context of Romans 9. The answer is obviously yes, and then Romans 9 goes on to talk about Jacob and Esau, like I said. Just because God can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants doesn't mean Romans 9 is about anyone other than Jacob and Esau. Nobody's saying God can't do these things so it's a non point and a red herring I can only assume you're attempting to twist Romans 9 into talking about everyone because of the fact that God "CAN" perform his will on anyone, that's sophistry. God can directly punish whomever he wills too, but that doesn't change the fact that only Adam, Eve, and the serpent are punished in Genesis 3. God can choose any people he wants to receive his covenant, that doesn't change the fact that the bible only speaks of him choosing Israel. What you're attempting to do here is dishonest if you're doing it purposely. I hope you aren't.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@sbryan060 Well, that one went through, hmm...but will it remain more than a few minutes? All the ones I've written in the last hour have disappeared as soon as I refreshed the page. I've never had this much trouble writing a couple simple comments, somebody really doesn't want me to say what I said in them. Or doesn't want you to read them. Weird.

@ManlyServant 3 жыл бұрын

@@doxholiday1372 ahaha weak eisegesis

@doxholiday1372 2 жыл бұрын

@@ManlyServant More like a weak mind that's filled to the brim with propaganda from the Communists who infiltrated the church denominations (exactly as they promised they would during the Cold War) isn't able to comprehend simple biblical truths. You're incapable of understanding anything that doesn't align with the completely unbiblical doctrine of the "Universal Brotherhood of All Mankind" which has come to replace the bible's teachings. Instead of trusting in God you trust in Karl Marx and the Frankfurt School. Unwittingly or not. If you aren't knowledgeable of the multigenerational struggle between the seed of Israel and the seed of Edom then you don't even understand the first book of the Bible, so how could you possibly understand the rest of it? Your foundation needs to be on the rock of biblical truth, not the shifting sand of Communist doctrine combined with ignorance, lies, and half-truths.

@angj5609 4 жыл бұрын

The beauty of the science of interpretation. Sola Scriptura!

@andrewadler4576 3 жыл бұрын

Can I knw u?

@angj5609 3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewadler4576 why? hahah

@andrewadler4576 3 жыл бұрын

@@angj5609 just ,looks like ur very interested in this matter

@knowledgeispowerafrica7952 5 жыл бұрын

I admire your teachings in South Africa

@ChiknEatnBaptist Жыл бұрын

James talks about he he uses a consistent exegesis and hermeneutical principle to walk through the text in the same way he would to prove other doctrines.. but he never discussed which exegetical or hermeneutical principle he utilizes when doing so.. is there a name for the specific hermeneutic philosophy he utilizes?

@bennygonzales237 2 ай бұрын

What?!!!!!

@esmevandermewe6106 3 ай бұрын

How is it possible the Pastors skip Romans 9 verse 8 that the promise is The Holy Spirit???? This means that Abraham's physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise (The Holy Spirit) are considered to be Abraham's children. KJV That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (The Holy Spirit) are counted for the seed.

@Mailman316 5 жыл бұрын

The key to understanding Romans 9 is to understand who the objector is. It’s not an arminian or non Calvinist, who objects to the fact that God chooses in his sovereignty. It’s a hardened Jew who is objecting here because these Jews thought that because of their daddy, Abraham, they were entitled to a free ticket to Heaven because of their bloodline. These Jews were hardened and blinded to the truth though, and Paul was heart broke because of it. If only they could understand that Jesus was the messiah, but they are rejecting the very God that they trust who came down to earth in the flesh. To rightly understand Romans 9, chapter 10 and 11 must be read with it. And to make this short, ch 11 sums it up with God declaring all in unbelief, so that he may have mercy upon all. Christ died for all people, the sins of the world, that includes all without exception. Trust in him alone that he may have mercy upon you in the judgement to come.

@86lanzo 5 жыл бұрын

Bad exegesis...the objector is man.. Paul said so..the letter is written to the Church in Rome...which is made up of Jews and gentiles..

@Mailman316 5 жыл бұрын

Orlanzo Telfer that’s what I’m saying. The hardened Jew is a man, and he’s the objector in Romans 9. It’s not an arminian.

@86lanzo 5 жыл бұрын

@@Mailman316 the hardened Jew isn't the only man...it was directed to man.....the text doesn't say these specific man...it says man.....its about the general man ....using Jews as an example....And Arminian is just a title given to certain soteriological beliefs ..in terms of humans playing a role in there salvation and Jews are Arminians...they don't believe they're saved apart from anything they do .

@jasont5300 2 жыл бұрын

So everyone is saved. Gotta love that universalism.

@86lanzo 5 жыл бұрын

Layten Flowers didn't exegete Romans 9...

@86lanzo 5 жыл бұрын

@max marrero that makes no sense and doesn't deal with the text...your trying to squeeze it into something that doesn't fit...the concept is God making the vessels. He's the Potter and he makes vessels for different use for his good pleasure.....your trying to make it so God isn't the one making the vessels for that use...but he makes all vessels for the same use ..but when some soil themselves he uses them for other stuff.... That view belittles God as the Potter..who just has to use vessels that changed themselves beyond his control....and it goes against the point that is being made....the point is God shaping for his use

@therealzacharnold 5 жыл бұрын

@@86lanzo God does in fact reform vessels that spoil or people that don't obey. If we do not turn from our ways, God can use us as a vessel of His wrath. And likewise, if we turn away from our evil, He will reform us. Scripture is clear on that and the severity of our will to turn to God in Jeremiah 18- The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord saying, 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will announce My words to you.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. 4 But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make. 5 Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, 6 “Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. 11 So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.”’ 12 But they will say, ‘It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’

@86lanzo 5 жыл бұрын

@@therealzacharnold I did not say God doesn't reform broken vessels...the thing that I hold to is the emphasis is on God ...God is the one as the Potter who ultimately dictates what a vessel is ...he's not a sloppy Potter...but a purposeful Potter...He made even the wicked for the day of wrath

@86lanzo 5 жыл бұрын

@@therealzacharnold and thinking about it of course God reforms vessels...every single vessel that is use for honorable use it's Good who fashioned that vessel for that use...you could say we're all born broken vessels

@therealzacharnold 5 жыл бұрын

@@86lanzo Of course the emphasis is on God, He is the great judge, completely righteous and just. Who are we to question what He does with us in our unroghteousness? This goes along with Romans 11 where He used those the people of Israel who would not turn to Him to bring salvation to the Gentiles. Just as He used Pharaoh, God temporarily hardened them for His greater good. They were not hardened forever, it did not mean their damnation, and it later says that they can even be grafted back in. God used them in this way because they were already against Him and had their hearts hardened already in a way. We also know from this passage that those God foreknows, are not necessarily all saved. It says that He foreknew all of Israel, but not all who are of Israel are saved are they? Paul talks about the remnant 7000 that DID turn to God so they were saved by His grace, not by works. I'm sure we both agree on that doctrine. Paul tells the Gentiles not to boast because they did not earn it, it was purely by the grace of God through their faith. That's the key, we are saved by grace, yes, but through faith. Faith is not a work. Romans 11- I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, [a]a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” 4 But what [b]is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s [c]gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer [d]on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but [e]those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, Eyes to see not and ears to hear not, Down to this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, And a stumbling block and a retribution to them. 10 “Let their eyes be darkened to see not, And bend their backs forever.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their [f]fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my [g]fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will theiracceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [h]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supportsyou. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

@rickmunro6891 3 жыл бұрын

Romans 9 has nothing to do with salvation. It’s simply telling us that Gods Grace widened to the Gentiles and who are the Jews to question God about who He has mercy on. Paul tells us clearly that even as a child scripture can be understood. If you believe in the death burial and resurrection of Christ for your sins you will be saved

@shopson6991 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah…… no. It is about Salvation👉 “And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also 👉justified, and those whom he 👉justified he also 👉glorified. Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died-more than that, who was raised-who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is 👉interceding for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:30, 33-34‬ ‭ESV‬‬ ☝️ That is about Salvation so you are in error.

@jasont5300 2 жыл бұрын

Chapter 8 leads into chapter 9. There were no chapter and verse divisions in the original text. Chapter 8 is about salvation which leads into the same discussion in chapter 9, 10 and 11.

@rickmunro2681 2 жыл бұрын

@@shopson6991 OK Calvinist. Listen you're wrong. Predestination has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with election and adoption. see what happens when you follow teachers who have corrupted the gospel of grace. What you say does not line up at all with the rest of the theme of Paul's letter. By the way, I never see Paul "questioning anybody's "predestination" to salvation and neither hints ever that a born again person can lose his salvation. You're wrong and believing a false message.

@rickmunro2681 2 жыл бұрын

@@jasont5300 No, you're wrong, you follow a man made theology that has blinded you to the simplicity that is in Christ. This is clearly speaking about the salvation of a people (Gentiles) and not individual salvation. Everytime predestination is used, it is used in the context of adoption and election not salvation. This is the problem with calvinists is that they dont see the differentiation between Jew and Gentile and every single thing they see in the Bible is ALL to us when it is not. Paul is clearly showing how God grace has come to the Gentiles because the Jews rejected Christ. Calvinists are all the same, following their tainted Gospel and have perverted Gods Grace by believing and teaching a man made doctrine that is not Gods plan for the Gentiles. All can be saved if they believe the Gospel, ALL have sinned and fallen short, how ironic that every calvinist thinks that they are the chosen. just arrogance and pride.

@jasont5300 2 жыл бұрын

@@rickmunro2681 okay, except all of the church fathers agree with this. Guess you figured it out. Who can believe? Anyone? You think belief is just an intellectual belief that saves you? All you gotta do is just say it. I believe. That’s it? Sorry, bud, it’s not that simple. Even demons believe and they shutter. Are they saved too? The key is believe in your HEART. What is your heart? It’s not the thing that pumps blood. Heart in the Greek: καρδία Transliteration: kardia Pronunciation: kar-dee'-ah Part of Speech: feminine noun Root Word (Etymology): Prolonged from a primary kar (Latin, cor, denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life the centre and seat of spiritual life the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence of the will and character of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions How does someone whose spirit is dead to God make itself believe in Him? And you were DEAD in trespasses and sins. But God made you ALIVE. Your man centered theology leads people down the board road of destruction and gives them a false hope. Palagianism and semi-palagianism has been deemed heresy. But 👌🏼

@ianpaterson4956 6 жыл бұрын

Lets rather dream about how we as people of the Kingdom actually become effective Christ followers and reflectors.

@irresistiblegrace790 8 жыл бұрын

Thank you yet again Dr White for sound exegetical teaching.

@sbryan060 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's not "sound" commentary brother. The Bible specifically says that God promised to harden Pharaoh's heart (Exodus 7) and then he hardened his heart and then in Romans it tells us why. But the commentary at 36minutes the guy makes the claim that "Pharaoh hardened his own heart". /facepalm. LET THE TEXT SPEAK FOR ITSELF.

@sbryan060 6 жыл бұрын

Jordan Hatfield I will read brother and report back.

@sbryan060 6 жыл бұрын

I read those passages and I do not see a contradiction between God hardening someone's heart for his own glory and the text saying that Pharaoh hardened his heart. BEFORE Pharoah hardened his own heart, God determined that he would do so. (see Exodus 7:3-4 which comes BEFORE Exodus 8) If God makes a decision for someone, they DO what God has determined they will do and God has that right because a) all have sinned and all have fallen short and b) he created us for his own glory. We just hate the idea that we're not in control but Christ said it himself, we are slaves to the one whom we obey. If then we are slaves, then we are ruled by something, whether God or Satan. Personally, I just want WHATEVER God says to be true, if we are robots then so be it and if we are completely free to do whatever we want then so be it. God decides, not me.

@sbryan060 6 жыл бұрын

That's fair, though I don't think anyone, including James White is saying that God is arbitrarily hardening anyone's hearts. By definition, we're all born under sin so the Lord has every right to harden our hearts at his choosing. I appreciate your civil and thoughtful responses. You have a good day as well brother!!

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@sbryan060 Romans 9 is specifically about the election of Israel and the rejection of Edom. (Jacob vs Esau) Pharaoh's mention has nothing to do with salvation, the context is about God's right and ability to choose who he elects. If you'd actually let the text speak for itself you'd realize that Romans 9 explains why Jesus rejected certain Judeans and called them children of the devil. If you'd study the lives of Esau and his descendants you'd know that Esau married into the forbidden line of Canaanites and produced bastard offspring, and so did Judah through his marriage to the Canaanitess, and that those offspring are damned.

@SpotterVideo 5 жыл бұрын

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

@doctorirrefragibilis Жыл бұрын

Obscure argument. Not all OT citations are needed to be read in their original context. For instance, In romans 9:29 Paul quotes Isaiah 1:9 which has nothing to do with the context of Romans since Isaiah 1:9 is about the left over Jews after the babylonian exile and destruction of Israel and jerusalem, not with left over jews who will by saved Christ, which is the meaning of Paul.

@SpotterVideo Жыл бұрын

@@doctorirrefragibilis Why did Isaiah quote Isaiah 7:14 to let Ahaz know all of the nation of Judah could not be destroyed? Our salvation is linked to this promise made to those who survived the captivity in Babylon. Isaiah Sent to King Ahaz Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it. Isa 7:2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind. Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field; Isa 7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah. Isa 7:5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, Isa 7:6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: Isa 7:7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people. Isa 7:9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established. The Sign of Immanuel Isa 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. Isa 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

@doctorirrefragibilis Жыл бұрын

@@SpotterVideo And he says the vessels of mercy are “We” whom he called from the gentiles and jews. i.e. individual believers.

@doctorirrefragibilis Жыл бұрын

@@SpotterVideo also, “Not all of who are born of Israel, are Israel” is clearly about individuals as well

@doctorirrefragibilis Жыл бұрын

@@SpotterVideo Also, “its not about the one willing or running” is clearly about individuals

@robertmurphy8808 4 жыл бұрын

I'm a Christian but I very much question...." the potter and the clay ".........If a person is purposely created to be evil then the only one to blame is god. If a man is created with crooked countenance then the only one to blame is god.

@brandonmccallon5160 3 жыл бұрын

Do you doubt that we are all by nature sinners?

@abckids3476 3 жыл бұрын

If you make an ugly painting does that mean your an ugly person? How would you know what evil was if God didn't make it? Before God-made it there was nothing.

@rodgerstwin2183 3 жыл бұрын

Dont you see? You are the objector in this Passage! God can create anyone for any purpose because He is God. And if you have faith today in Christ ,then praise God for He has chosen you to receive His mercy. It's so humbling.

@jasont5300 2 жыл бұрын

Who are you O man to answer back to God?

@ernestojlassus1354 2 жыл бұрын

Nope. There is God's decree and also, there is the doctrine of Original sin.

@readJames48 2 жыл бұрын

Dr James White blew me off when I met him at his old church in Phoenix...no worries!...Im not a wuss and become an Arminian!!! Outstanding exegesis here!!!

@MarkRidlen 4 жыл бұрын

You skipped the last part of Romans 9, bro.

@ipaporod 5 жыл бұрын

My top 9 preachers and debaters1-:David Wilkerson,2- John MacArthur, 3-Paul Washer, 4-John Piper,5- Ravi Zacharias, 6-Justin Peters,7- Dr. Martin,8-Dr.James White and 9-Dr.Michael Brown.I really love this guys, they are awesome!.

@boaz63 5 жыл бұрын

Solid list! 😎👍

@kevindrake714 5 жыл бұрын

Michael Brown is the only one who believes you can lose your salvation just a heads up

@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын

You might want to take Ravi off of your list

@johnmackinnon7321 6 жыл бұрын

Study Roman's 11

@albusai 5 жыл бұрын

Jeremiah 18 ??? And in genesis are two children in your womb or two nations?? Calvanist are si good at not doing midrash

@Shiloh3498 4 жыл бұрын

And you are so good at ignoring Romans 9. We do not retreat to Old Testament types to explain New Testament realities. You're driving in reverse...

@reformedchristian7751 4 жыл бұрын

@@Shiloh3498 Amen brother. It is unfortunate considering they do this to avoid the inevitable conclusion in Romans 9 and they don't exegete any other verses in scripture like that. Inconsistency...

@ManlyServant 3 жыл бұрын

@@Shiloh3498 we are to believe in APOSTOLIC Interpretation,And romans 9 exegesis is the Answer,i became calvinist

@jasont5300 2 жыл бұрын

The NT interprets the old. Not the other way around.

@cameramangenowharton 7 жыл бұрын

Doctor White was so on track when he kept saying Israel and Jew right to Pharaoh, but then changed to man and creation... This is about Abraham and his seed... God fulfilled his promise to Abraham not based on works (before birth and did good or bad) but on his purpose through his descendants the Jews.... Jacob I loved (son of the promise) Esau I hated (son of the flesh)... What does man and creation got to do with God fulfilling his promise to Abraham through the Jews???

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

Abraham's seed is Israel, not Jews. God never chose "the Jews" for anything. He chose the 12 tribes of Israel.

@saynebluzu175 4 жыл бұрын

James White are on spot

@Mike-hr6jz 4 жыл бұрын

Does this guy know that there’s a whole Bible more than just Romans

@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын

The debate wasn’t about the whole Bible, it was specifically about Romans 9.

@Mike-hr6jz 3 жыл бұрын

@@gabrielkinzel3389 that’s the problem you take the whole Bible out of context and focus on one thing that’s how your city rheology gets destroyed

@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын

@@Mike-hr6jz He didn't take it out of context...he went back to the previous chapter to establish the context.

@Mike-hr6jz 3 жыл бұрын

@@gabrielkinzel3389 ride this is how they beat a dead horse

@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын

@@Mike-hr6jz okey...

@titocarlos7896 6 жыл бұрын

Hosea 1 2The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departingfrom the LORD. 3So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son. 4And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.5And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel. 6And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.7But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. 8Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. 9Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. 10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them(the children of Israel), Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them,(the children of Israel) Ye are the sons of the living God. 11Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

@randyregal4510 8 ай бұрын

James is a goat

@infinityApologeticsClips 3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant Exegesis

@ianpaterson1446 5 жыл бұрын

Romans 9 is clearly all about the problem of Israel and not about personal salvation. James White is clearly intelligent but he’s dead wrong here.

@danielomitted1867 5 жыл бұрын

So when Paul writes Gods mercy and compassion depends not on human will or exertion hes just talking about Israel? That makes no sense.

@weobeyjesus4565 4 жыл бұрын

@@danielomitted1867 The fact that God's mercy does not depend on human will proves God's mercy is not confined to Judaism because joining Judaism is through human will and exertion. Romans 9 is a list of reasons to reject the idea that Christians need to be Jews to be saved. It supports the doctrine of election but not election from before time began. Those predestination passages (Rom 8;29-30, Eh 1;4-5) are about how the covenant was predestined (1Pet 1;20) not some claim that God chose some people from the beginning of time who were no different to other people, making them be unable to end up in hell and others being unable to avoid it. God elects repentant/righteous people. Rom 3;10-18 is about a generation of unrighteous Jews. There were Jews justified by working righteousness, it was just there were also non-Jews justified in the same way (2;25-29). The Mosaic Law says all people are guilty (3;19) so it is clearly not the covenant a person needs to be a part of to be saved, but that does not mean some who were under it were saved.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@danielomitted1867 The very explanation he gave was Israel VS Edom. The called seed and the not called seed. His example was the chosen nation of Israel, so how have you twisted that into "individuals"? You have to throw away the entire bible to get away from the fact that God is dealing with Israel, not individuals all over the earth. Obviously inidividual descendants of Israel are accountable to God, but only because they're Israel. The New Covenant was made with Israel, not the entire world, not any individual under the sun, Israel. "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." - Jer 31:31 God chose Israel, he brought Israel out of Egypt, he gave Israel alone his laws, statutes, judgements, and precepts, he gave both the old and new covenants to Israel, he sent his prophets to speak his word to Israel, he sent his Messiah only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, that Messiah's disciples were sent to the lost sheep of Israel. It's amazing to me that Christians have been able to twist scriptures to the point where they can't even recognize the main theme of the bible. The concoction of this fake people known as "gentiles" has done wonders to stupify otherwise intelligent people, if only they would question why an anglicized Latin word ended up in English translations, they might stumble on the fact that gentiles simply means NATIONS, and that is exactly where God said he would scatter his sheep, Israel - among the nations. "And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you." - Deut 4:27 (God then reputiaated the decree that they would be made small in number and proclaimed that Israel would become as numerous as the sand of the sea) "Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel." - Hosea 1:9-11 Romans 9:25-26 even references this, I don't know how anyone could miss it. "As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." Those people which were not his people, were the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL. All the bible talks about is Israel, from halfway through Genesis until the last page of Revelation. It's right in front of your face.

@danielomitted1867 4 жыл бұрын

@@doxholiday1372 the argument you guys give to try to get around this make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Just as God had a chosen set aside people in the OT so to does he have one now. So when Paul writes that Gods mercy isnt dependent on human will or exertion thats about israel and israel alone? So Gods mercy to israel wasnt dependent on them but it is for us? That makes no sense. But ive noticed anytime someone sees something they dont like in the bible they like to say "thats only about israel". As if israel wasnt a shadow of things to come.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@danielomitted1867 Who is you guys? I don't follow either of the debaters, so you've jumped the gun in an attempt to justify how you already "know I'm wrong". Both of these guys get a lot of the basics totally wrong because they've accepted the phony "Jew vs Gentile" distinction and have to twist the scriptures around to explain away what appear to be irreconcilable verses.

@ianpaterson4956 6 жыл бұрын

Here is the way we should be approaching the argument, there are three positions (regarding election etc.) that seem to be supported by the bible, this means that God means us to wrestle with the wonder of redemption. To fight for one position as the only possible position means you have to ignore huge portions of scripture. Lets agree on the things the bible puts across as given (God is Sovereign, man needs to be saved etc.) and lets agree that who gets into heaven (or not) should be left up to God.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

Israel is God's elect. "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."- Isa 45:4 "And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there." - Isa 65:9 "They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands." - Isa 65:22

@albusai 5 жыл бұрын

So Calvin 3:16 is si God loved the few lucky chosen ones that gave his only begotten Son so those that are pre wired to believe ones they hear their good news their eternal life began? Or ones the get regenared then they’ll believe?

@tolar9 5 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@KamalaKackles 5 жыл бұрын

I would try reading more than one verse. It helps to put it in context and better understand the COMPLETE message.

@MillsJonEric 5 жыл бұрын

“Whosoever shall believe”. That pretty obviously doesn’t mean everybody.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@MillsJonEric Incorrect. Those words "Whosoever shall believe" appear nowhere in the KJV. Any "whosoever" you might come across in reference to the gospel applies to the intended audience, which is, was, and always will be Israel. The entire bible is about God's dealings with Israel. Both old and new covenants were given to Israel. Jesus said he came not but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The apostles were told to go to the lost sheep of Israel. It's very simple. Since most people love to believe lies you will probably retort with something about "gentiles", but gentiles means nations - the very place God said he would scatter his people, among the nations. So once again he's talking about Israel.

@1920s 4 жыл бұрын

Dox Holiday I see the word “whosoever” in the KJV. I’m not understanding what you mean.

@johndisalvo6283 Жыл бұрын

The background stage is representative of White’s eisegesis!

@danielroot8872 6 жыл бұрын

“Look at me and my Greek text!”

@Solideogloria00 6 жыл бұрын

Daniel Root are you serious? you're monolingual right?

@danielroot8872 6 жыл бұрын

R. Joël Guzman-Quispe 😎

@davidbalicki3567 3 жыл бұрын

rock solid exegesis of this portion of scripture

@P.H.888 5 жыл бұрын

In God’s Sovereignty He gives man autonomy! All through The Hebrew Scriptures we see people have free will. We are all predestined to be made in The Image Of Jesus Christ! Love & hate is a Hebrew idiom! It just means “I Choose”! God in His Sovereignty chose Jacob! His foreknowledge! Adam had a choice but Sinned God spoke to Cain & said that Cain could overcome sin!!! So Cain hardened his own heart to rebel against Gods Word! But ultimately you can say it was God because He is Sovereign! God is Always in control even when he gives us free will. Are freedom is still in His Sovereignty!

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

God never said Cain could overcome sin, he said IF he does well will he not be accepted, but if he doesn't do well sin lies at the door. The statement is true, those that do well are accepted. Either make the tree bad and the fruit will be bad, or make the tree good and the fruit will be good. He told the Judeans in Matthew 23 and John 8 that their father was Cain and the devil, and that they did the deeds of their father, ad his lusts they will do, and told them they couldn't hear his words because they weren't his sheep. He did not say they weren't his sheep because they couldn't hear his words, that is the opposite of what he said. His point was that who they were determines their destiny. Lo and behold cain became the first murderer and liar, and Jesus said his descendants are guilty of ALL the righteous blood shed on earth. Sounds like a bad tree producing nothing but bad fruit to me!

@reformedchristian7751 4 жыл бұрын

@P Harrison If Man has an autonomous free will, God is no longer sovereign, and you destroy the Gospel entirely.

@blaziustheblaze9935 4 жыл бұрын

Adam's choice was in obedience, not salvation. A lot of people confuse the two when they cite OT passages about people choosing things. For example, a lot of free will people will cite Joshua 24:15 as free will: "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." However, the choosing in this verse has to do with obedience, not salvation.

@obrien709 Жыл бұрын

@@doxholiday1372Why did you conveniently stop in the middle of the verse leaving out the part where God says “Cain should rule over sin?” “If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, ➡️but you should rule over it.⬅️”” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4‬:‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

@bobfree1226 6 жыл бұрын

Please see dr Browns exegesis on Romans 9 .it agrees and disagrees with whites overall views an makes much more sense.

@pateunuchity884 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, and they still call each other brothers in Christ.

@KamalaKackles 5 жыл бұрын

It’s obvious that GOD has elected individual people, not a race, to be saved. There’s just no denying that. So that being understood, read the Bible with that in mind and it will make more sense.

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

He literally chose a nation, Israel, and said as long as the sun, moon, and stars were visible they would always be a nation before him on earth. (Jer 31) "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light." - 1 Peter 2:9 "generation": genos (like GENES) kind, kindred, offspring, nation. Peter is just repeating what was said to Israel in Exodus 19:6 "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." - Deut 7:6 "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth." - Deut 14:2 "And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude." - 1 Kings 3:8 "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones." 1 Chron 16:13 "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance." - Psalm 33:12 "That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance." - Psa 106:5 "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure." - Psa 135:4 "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend." - Isa 41:8 "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:" - Psa 44:1

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

What so many Christians don't understand is that non Israelites were living with Israel in Judea, that is who Jesus was blinding...Idumeans like Herod and Judas. They are not all Israel who are of Isreal...Not all living in the land of Israel were Israelites. They went out from us because they were not of us. The Idueams, Canaanites, and other non Israelites living among them did not remain with them because they couldn't hear Jesus' word, as he explained in John 8. And the "gentiles" are the NATIONS the children of Israel were scattered to. "Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat; and hast scattered us among the heathen." - Psa 44:11 "Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones." - Jer 50:17 "My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them." - Ezek 34:6 "As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day." - Ezek 34:12 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." - Matt 10:6 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." - Matt 15:24 "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob." - Romans 11:26

@fernandopaulus9088 4 жыл бұрын

I feel so good that I know Romans 9 better than James and I could actually teach it to him lol

@kayakeraltamaha5720 7 жыл бұрын

ALL of these debates gloss over "Abraham's seed" (Luke 3:8, 9; John 8:37; Romans 9:6, 7) that were the documented "children"/'sons" of Keturah, NOT Abraham (Gen 25:1-4; 1Chr 1:32). The prophesied Israelite Messianic progenitor Judah's Canaanite father-in-law Shuah, was a documented "son"/'child' of Abraham's WIFE! The prophesied Israelite Messianic progenitor Judah (Gen 49:10; Isa 65;9), married a "Canaanitess" (1Chr 2:3), contrary to Abraham (Gen 24:3), Isaac (Gen 28:1-4), Ezra (9:1, 7), and was personally disowned by Malachi (Mal 2:11, 12). Judah's father-in-law "Shuah" was a "Canaanite" (Gen 38:2), and a "son"/'child' of Abraham's WIFE Keturah, NOT Abraham. Judah's father-in-law Shuah, was NOT Hebrew. Then, was Judah's son Shelah (Gen 38:5, 26), an Israelite? A Jew? A Hebrew? An heir to the Abrahamic Covenant, land in Judah/Judea and Jerusalem, and heir to the Messianic lineage? Where do folks think those "Shelanites" (Num 26:20) wound up 2k years later? In Judah's portion of Promised Land in Jerusalem/Judea! Folks debating Romans 9 are vastly more knowledgeable than I, but aren't playing with a full deck (Luke 12:49-53 KJV; Rev 2:9, 3:9). Please forgive me that I am as utterly appalled as was Ezra in chapter 9.

@kayakeraltamaha5720 7 жыл бұрын

Really pretty simple. In John 9:6, 7 (sword/division), 8, 9 KJV... Paul was exercising family division that Jesus taught in Luke 12:49-53 KJV. My parentheses, "6)...For they are not all Israel(ites), which are of Israel: " The Israelite Judah was the prophesied progenitor of Messiah (Gen 49:10; Isa 65:9). Yet, Judah's marriage to a Canaanitess (Gen 38:2; 1Chr 2, 3) was contrary to Abraham's infamous quest for Isaac's wife (Gen 24:3), contrary to Isaac's instruction to Jacob (Gen 28:1-4); contrary to Moses/God (Deu 7:1-6). Judah's marriage was considered a "great trespass" according to Ezra, some 1, 200 years later (Ezra 9:1, 2, 7). Even 1,500 years after the fact, Malachi, in chapter two, said Judah's marriage was an "11)... abomination.. committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. 12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts." The progenitor of Messiah was disowned for that marital infraction. Well, Judah's third and surviving (HINT) son Shelah (Gen 38:5), survived to procreate (Gen 38:26). Judah's surviving circumcised son Shelah, was the 'father' of the "Shelanites" (Num 26:20). Questions: Was Shelah, progeny of Judah's forbidden marriage to a Canaanitess... was Shelah, an Israelite? Were those Shelanites, Jews? Meanwhile, Jesus descended through Judah's, and his daughter-in-law Tamar's, eldest twin son Pharez(s) (Gen 38:24, 29, 30; Mat 1:3; Luke 3:33). Those twin sons were the 'fathers' of the "Pharzites" and "Zarhites" (Num 26:20). They were conceived in harlotry, born out of wedlock (Gen 38:26), 'fatherless' being Judah didn't claim them. Questions: Were those Pharzites (and Zarhites), Israelites? Were they Jews? The plot thickens... Which lineage of Judah will inherit Judah's portion of Promised Land in Judah/Judea and Jerusalem? Which lineage of Judah will be the beneficiary of the Abrahamic Covenant? Most specifically, and of utterly paramount importance in Jesus' day, some 2k years after Judah's "great trespass": Through which lineage of Judah would Messiah arrive? The Shelanite lineage? Or, the Pharzite lineage? For 2k years, the Shelanites held the Pharzites under the bondage of the law, that their ancestor Pharez was conceived in harlotry, born out of wedlock, and they were bastards and ineligible as heirs to the Abrahamic Covenant. AND, Messiah HAD to arrive via Judah's Shelanite lineage, the false gospel of those days, speaking of "endless genealogies" (1Tim 1:4). Those 'fatherless', homeless, conceived in harlotry, and born out of wedlock Pharzites and Zarhites were indeed the Lost Sheep of the house of Jacob-Israel (via Judah). And, those Shelanites usurped the title "Jew", and claimed themselves rightful heirs to the Abrahamic Covenant including the prophesied Messianic lineage. In Jesus' day, they were the Pharisees, scribes, Sadducees, bankers, lawyers, politicians, and tax collectors in Jerusalem. Jesus turned over much more than the money changers' tables! And, Jerusalem fell, 70 AD. Back to the captioned verses: "...For they are not all Israel(ites) which are of Israel (Judah's Shelanite descendants). Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children (of Abraham)" Most certainly! Judah's Canaanitess wife was the daughter of the Canaanite, Shuah (Gen 38:2). And, Moses said Shuah was one of "the children of Keturah", NOT Abraham (Gen25:1-4). According to Ezra, some 1.2k years after the fact: Judah's father-in-law Shuah, was the literal "son" of Keturah, NOT Abraham (1Chr 1:32). Then, those Shelanite descendants of Judah were progeny of Judah and his WIFE, that was the granddaughter of Abraham's WIFE. "...For they are not all Israel(ites) which are of Israel (Judah's Shelanite descendants). Neither, because they are the 'seed' of Abraham, are they all children (of Abraham)('they' were Keturah's children)" Were those circumcised Shelanites, Israelites? Were they Jews? Were they entitled heirs to the Abrahamic Covenant? So, those circumcised Shelanite Pharisee descendants of Judah, plotted Jesus' crucifixion (John 11:45-53). And, I'm not discounting there were pure-pedigree Israelites that were tagalongs to the crucifixion. Those deluded Israelites were the focus of Pentecost in Acts 2 (my parentheses): 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name (ancestry) of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you (pure-pedigree Israelites, predominately the Pharzite Lost Sheep), and to your children, and to all that are afar off (ten northern tribes, etc), even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation (those Shelanite impostor "Jews" mentioned in Rev 2:9; 3:9). 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls (Lost Sheep, found). Seldom discerned in translations other than the 1611 KJV; those that instigated Jesus' crucifixion were NOT Israelites (John 8:33 KJV). However, they were "Abraham's seed" (John 8:37 KJV). They just weren't "Abraham's children" (John 8:39 KJV). Furthermore, being descendants of Abraham's WIFE, then Judah's WIFE, they "...be not born of fornication" (John 8:41 KJV). Folks, even John the Baptizer knew who 'they' were, Luke 3: 7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and BEGIN NOT TO SAY WITHIN YOURSELVES, WE HAVE ABRAHAM TO OUR FATHER: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones (ostracized Pharzite/Lost sheep living in the wilderness) to raise up children unto Abraham (Jesus set them free from the bondage of the Law that bastardized them). 9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. A real play in semantics seldom discerned beyond the 1611 KJV, speaking of being baptized by the fire of family division Jesus spoke of in Luke 12:49-53... and that's exactly what Paul was doing in Romans 9, brandishing the sword. Ole John the Baptist used an axe, ‘they’ killed his father (Luke 1:5, 6; Matthew 23:34). Cost JTB his head… Unknown to Herod, but known to both JTB and his father, Herod’s wife was one of ‘them’, like Keturah, like Judah’s wife…

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

Yep, ignorant Christians insist that the "serpents" are "bad Israelites", instead of recognizing the obvious, that they are the unholy offspring of Esau's marriage to Canaanite women, and Judah's offspring via the Canaanite. Because they refuse to understand this simple truth they have turned the scriptures upside down attempting to reconcile irreconcilable passages, and crafted countless doctrines to explain away the damnation of the wicked seed.

@evanu6579 7 жыл бұрын

Romans 9 is not about salvation. It's obvious. Especially if you look up the OT quotes. People are just lazy.

@sbryan060 6 жыл бұрын

What? The entire context of Chapter 9 is clearly salvific. Did you even read the text?

@josephgarrett3075 6 жыл бұрын

Evan U ok fair enough, then neither is 2 Peter 2:1

@raysonraypay5885 6 жыл бұрын

Romans 9 is pretty awesome

@doxholiday1372 4 жыл бұрын

@@sbryan060 The context of Romans 9 is that God chose Israel to be heirs of his promise and rejected Edom. (Jacob vs Esau) Both were descendants of Abraham, but only one gave rise to God's holy nation.

@sbryan060 4 жыл бұрын

@@doxholiday1372 Absolutely - the heirs of the promise to Abraham ARE the saved. They are all who are in Christ (the promised SEED - singular).

@radki4a 7 жыл бұрын

dr. Michael Brown always schools dr. James White in a debate.

@evanu6579 7 жыл бұрын

Radko Dimitrov It's easy when you have scripture on your side.

@raysonraypay5885 6 жыл бұрын

I schooled ur mum

@paul.etedder2439 6 жыл бұрын

And then you woke up

@ManlyServant 3 жыл бұрын

@@paul.etedder2439 ahah

@Miss-pm4kb Жыл бұрын

@@paul.etedder2439 Lol "And then you woke up" Hilarious 😂.

@julio14335 7 жыл бұрын

From this video it is very clear that Christians are going more with what PAUL says about JESUS, rather than what JESUS says about himself mainly- "Hear O Israel the Lord Our God is One God" (Mark 29:12). One does not need to be a scholar to understand this fudamental teaching of JESUS that buried all other verses or doctrines about him especially the Trinity. Logically speaking it is more safe to say brother PAUL is the founder of modern day Christianity.

@dawsonmurray4188 7 жыл бұрын

Julio Kosters is Jesus God?

@dawsonmurray4188 7 жыл бұрын

Julio Kosters if you believe He is (I do because of passages like john 1:1-3, 8:48, Romans 9:5 etc.) than you must believe that the words which Paul writes are God's words. Jesus' words are very important, and so are the words of Paul, because his words are from God.

@julio14335 7 жыл бұрын

Dawson Murray Is Buddha God. If yes, then Jesus including all men gods throughout history were all gods.

@julio14335 7 жыл бұрын

Dawson Murray No, i dont believe the Bible was/is the words of God simply because God dont contradicts Himself men Do. Who was Paul, was he One of the 12 disciples of Jesus- No!. In fact he was an early killer of you Christians who eventually claim to see Jesus in a vision without any historical records. How can you then trust a former killer of Christ followers to inspire you revelation from God, and if you claim to follow Jesus how can you believes his words morethan Jesus own words. Hook that for me!!!

@dawsonmurray4188 7 жыл бұрын

No he wasn't one of the twelve disciples, but he was chosen by God to be an apostle. Read Acts 9 How can I trust a former killer of Christians? Well I think because he himself recognized that he was wrong, and he became one of the greatest missionaries in history, as well as writing 1/3 of the new testament. And in his writings he says stuff like this, I consider everything that i have gained to be lost for the sake of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. That's a pretty big change to me. And the reason I asked if you believe that Jesus is God is because God inspired all of scripture, therefore Jesus's words and Paul's words are equal because both are from God.