Mrs Elton is one of the most obnoxious characters in all JA's work - but (with the exception of her delighting in the way Mr Elton snubs Harriet at the ball, and her nasty comment when Mr Knightly asks Harriet to dance) I don't think that she is deliberately unpleasant: she is an interfering, smug, self-satisfied individual who thinks the world of herself and expects the world to have a similar view - she knows better than anybody what everybody's needs are. Heaven preserve us from those with good intentions. However, with this excerpt, she shows herself to be very human: yes we can laugh at the way her mind "butterflies" from point to point, and how contradictory her thoughts (if such they can be called) are. But I suspect that most of us - while laughing at Mrs Elton - recognise that we are also laughing at ourselves: how many of us, while carrying out a rather automatic task, don't let our minds wander in a similar way?

I like the use of the dashes in the passage as well because they feel to me like brief pauses where someone else may have attempted (and failed) to get a word in edgeways 🙂

Mrs Elton's exhaustive monologue about the strawberries - separated with dashes - reminds me less of stream of consciousness and more of old 18th -19th century tomes and encyclopedias where a precis at the beginning of a chapter forewarns of many subject topics intricately discussed - and always separated with dashes. A familiar sight to Jane from her father's library?

I completely agree. A totally different kind of 'realism'. The passage so accurately - as you suggest - captures exactly what experiencing such a conversation feels like. And it mocks (in both senses of the word) Mrs Elton at the same time. As you say, just remarkable.

Wow, I had never thought of it that way when reading Austen dialogue. Thank you for this equally remarkable comment which blew my mind.

Thank you Luann for such a touching, lovely, kind message. Octavia

I just Read my Comment.. Shock und Schreck ! my Autocorrect really dir me in !!!! 😂😂😂😉

I’m touched by your message too - and like you, I really enjoy Dr. Cox’s lectures

Throughout _Emma_ we weave between Emma and the narrative voice's perspective (the novel perhaps contains Austen's most playful use of free indirect discourse), and often it is very hard to tell from which perspective we are being told the story. Before the strawberry speech, the narrative reads: "Emma felt an increasing respect for it [Donwell Abbey], as the residence of a family of such true gentility, untainted in blood and understanding.-Some faults of temper John Knightley had; but Isabella had connected herself unexceptionably. She had given them neither men, nor names, nor places, that could raise a blush. These were pleasant feelings, *and she walked about and indulged them till it was necessary to do as the others did, and collect round the strawberry-beds* .-The whole party were assembled, excepting Frank Churchill, who was expected every moment from Richmond; and Mrs. Elton, in all her apparatus of happiness, her large bonnet and her basket, was very ready to lead the way in gathering, accepting, or talking-strawberries, and only strawberries, could now be thought or spoken of.- ... " It seems to me that the opening section here is from Emma's internal perspective (i.e. it is Emma's view that the Knightleys show "true gentility" with an "untainted" "understanding", etc). But the narrative voice seems to be directing the action again when it comments that Emma "walked about" indulging in her pleasant feelings until it was necessary to follow the others to the strawberry beds. If we take it to be the narrative voice continuing, then it would be the narrative voice being rude about Mrs Elton's "apparatus of happiness" (still one of my very favourite descriptions!) and speech. But, given how much we move between the two (Emma's perspective and the narrative voice's) it could well be Emma's own view! Whether it is Emma's or the narrative voice's perspective, I think the point still stands that Austen is playing around with the representation of narrative 'truth' and the depiction of time that would continue to be played around with my subsequent writers, such as Woolf. And, yes, I'd very much like to think that Austen found it very funny too!

And thank you. I'm very pleased that you like my videos. Octavia

I am so enjoying the videos and discussion!

I’ve always wondered why Mr. Darcy was so unpleasant at the ball early in the novel- seems out of character .

@@DrOctaviaCox The "apparatus of happiness" - Mrs E would be all over instagram today! Sometimes, there's just no distance at all between Austen and us.

Very glad you enjoy my videos! Thanks for watching.

Yes😊

Many thanks for your message Furiosa - I'm really glad you found it illuminating. And thanks for the feedback. Yes, this lecture was rather more digressive than some of my others! If you're interested in closer readings of Woolf, you might enjoy my video on Woolf's _A Sketch of the Past_ : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kMWpm69jptWxeYk.html Or on Austen's _Mansfield Park_ : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oLagoMSmnaeRZ4k.html Or for a closer reading of another passage in _Emma_ : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h9KIlteItMqpZYk.html

Thank you. Octavia

Free indirect speech 🙈

Thanks Judy. I have always supposed that it is Mrs Elton who is speaking for the whole quotation. But I agree that "everybody's favourite - always wholesome" does sound like it could be something that Miss Bates would say. It has echoes in her repeating the wisdom of Mr Woodhouse's comments about the "wholesome[ness]" of baked apples: " she likes so well as these baked apples, and they are extremely wholesome, for I took the opportunity the other day of asking Mr. Perry; I happened to meet him in the street. Not that I had any doubt before-I have so often heard Mr. Woodhouse recommend a baked apple. I believe it is the only way that Mr. Woodhouse thinks the fruit thoroughly wholesome..." (vol.2, ch.9)

When we read the statements in the way you presented in the video, side by side with their counterpart, it’s so easy to see that how ridiculous and incomprehensible her monologue really is. Great video.

Yes, I think she likes to talk for the sake of talking - and of being in control of the situation.

Thank you! I love the comparisons too - the juxtapositions in such proximity to each other undermine her completely.

Thanks for the suggestions! Much appreciated. I shall add them to my list of future topics.

Furiosa, As you suggested, I've made a video about D H Lawrence's use of form and method, focussing on rhyme, in his poem 'Autumn Rain', which you can watch here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/esx9m7V0nbeqp3k.html I hope you enjoy it! Octavia

Yes, I think it could well be. The words are clearly Mrs Elton's - the passage is introduced to us referring to Mrs Elton's "talking" explicitly: "Mrs. Elton...was very ready to lead the way in gathering, accepting, or talking-strawberries, and only strawberries, could now be thought or spoken of.-" But the question of who selects the bits that are remembered / reported is up to readers to determine. And I agree with you. I think this section is a fabulous representation of exactly what it's like to listen to someone who's droning on and on and on, and you are zoning in and out of listening to them!

Yes, you’re right. Classic (i.e. Modernist) stream-of-consciousness happens internally, in the mind of a character, and the Austen passage doesn’t conform to that. But I do think that Austen is revealing the flow of Mrs Elton’s mind (but amusingly editing it to highlight Mrs Elton’s ridiculousness). I do think that something is revealed about Mrs Elton’s mind and her ‘unconscious’ (as it would later be called) in the way that Austen chooses to write the passage. I agree with you, I don’t think the passage fits completely and neatly into a stream-of-consciousness box, but - as I say in the video - I do think that Austen’s prose narrative style begins to explore ideas about representing characters’s minds that would go on to become stream-of-consciousness. A fun thought-experiment.

That’s a fantastic point you make about the closeness between free indirect discourse and stream-of-consciousness! Yes, I think there are lots of points of similarity (especially, the focus on and literary development of representing the mind of a character without simply stating “she thought”, “he thought”, etc). I suppose that an important difference would be that the narrative voice continues to have a far more overt presence in free indirect discourse (of course, there is also a filter in stream-of-consciousness too, but part of the point is that it’s veiled). Also, generally in free indirect discourse the character has (or at least the narrative voice interprets the mind of the character as having) a firm opinion &/or perception about the subject at hand, whereas often in stream-of-consciousness readers experience the character in the act of thinking and/or deliberating (as in the excerpt from Woolf’s _Mrs Dalloway_ ). But, yes, I agree that free indirect discourse is another important precursor (especially in terms of narrative literary technique) to stream-of-consciousness.

@@DrOctaviaCox I am currently rereading Emma and am noticing that JA used the same tecnique of the strawberry scene scattered in strings through the novel. For example in chapter 15 at Mr Elton declaration:"hoping - fearing - adoring - ready to die if she refused him" and at the end of the same chapter it's mr Woodhouse: "trembling for the dangers of a solitary drive from Vicarage Lane - turning a corner which he could never bear to think of - and in strange hands - a mere common coachman - no James". As if the strawberry scene is the climax which JA carefully prepared all through the novel. Then, I don't remember if her other novels have the same tecnique or it's just an "Emma thing".

That's a really fantasitc observation! I haven't researched it thoroughly but I don't think she uses the same technique elsewhere (certainly not to the extent of the Mrs Elton strawberry scene). It's one of the most extraordinary aspects of Austen's novels - that each one is characteristically itself in terms of technique and yet, of course, at the same time characteristically "Austen". Quite the feat!

Two years late to this conversation, but I was also thinking about the internal vs external distinction noted in the first comment when watching the video. I agree that what Austen gives us is a description of speech rather than internal thought, but I think that part of what makes it amusing is that the speech FEELS so much like internal thought - you get the sense that Mrs Elton has no filter between brain and mouth.

People who don't listen are the tragedy of the world. We may laugh at them in novels but at the end of the day all they can offer is isolation. Many blessings to you.

Oops, misspelled Woolf.