Mrs Elton is one of the most obnoxious characters in all JA's work - but (with the exception of her delighting in the way Mr Elton snubs Harriet at the ball, and her nasty comment when Mr Knightly asks Harriet to dance) I don't think that she is deliberately unpleasant: she is an interfering, smug, self-satisfied individual who thinks the world of herself and expects the world to have a similar view - she knows better than anybody what everybody's needs are. Heaven preserve us from those with good intentions. However, with this excerpt, she shows herself to be very human: yes we can laugh at the way her mind "butterflies" from point to point, and how contradictory her thoughts (if such they can be called) are. But I suspect that most of us - while laughing at Mrs Elton - recognise that we are also laughing at ourselves: how many of us, while carrying out a rather automatic task, don't let our minds wander in a similar way?
@sophiawarrilow3 жыл бұрын
I like the use of the dashes in the passage as well because they feel to me like brief pauses where someone else may have attempted (and failed) to get a word in edgeways 🙂
@philomenamuinzer48053 жыл бұрын
Mrs Elton's exhaustive monologue about the strawberries - separated with dashes - reminds me less of stream of consciousness and more of old 18th -19th century tomes and encyclopedias where a precis at the beginning of a chapter forewarns of many subject topics intricately discussed - and always separated with dashes. A familiar sight to Jane from her father's library?
@MindiB3 жыл бұрын
Brilliantly complete analysis! I am struck anew by how this sharp, concise segment reveals Austen’s innovative style not only neatly encapsulating Mrs. Elton’s ridiculousness and self-obsession, but also permitting the reader to experience her monologue as her listeners must have: Listening dutifully, politely, increasingly bored, one’s mind drifts, one is suddenly recalled to the moment, trying to reorient oneself as to what Mrs. Elton is on about now and just how she got there. . . . We are within Mrs. Elton’s mind AND experiencing her as an outside observer simultaneously. Absolutely remarkable.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
I completely agree. A totally different kind of 'realism'. The passage so accurately - as you suggest - captures exactly what experiencing such a conversation feels like. And it mocks (in both senses of the word) Mrs Elton at the same time. As you say, just remarkable.
@s.o.37533 жыл бұрын
Wow, I had never thought of it that way when reading Austen dialogue. Thank you for this equally remarkable comment which blew my mind.
@luannschomel26423 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry.. I can't das anything of any intelligente, as a Comment. I always Promised my self , that when I retires , I would finally go to University, and ist in on classes and educated myself.. I love your "lectures" I Listen to them while I Work... they are so enjoyable.. Thankyou a thousamd times for making such Education available.... I am 63... I Clean other People Homes to earn my Bread and Butter , and I am so gratefull for podcasts like Yours....
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Luann for such a touching, lovely, kind message. Octavia
@luannschomel26423 жыл бұрын
I just Read my Comment.. Shock und Schreck ! my Autocorrect really dir me in !!!! 😂😂😂😉
@fionanogawa17303 жыл бұрын
I’m touched by your message too - and like you, I really enjoy Dr. Cox’s lectures
@mrs.manrique74113 жыл бұрын
I think, too, whenever I've read this strawberry picking episode, that this is more the mind of Emma experiencing the contradictions of Mrs. Elton. Emma's mind is already disposed to despise Mrs. (& Mr.) Elton, as if blaming them for her past blunders, and so she picks out, pridefully, Mrs. Elton's contradictions. They are, perhaps, the highlights that she takes away from the first 30 minutes of the outing, and are funny for us, Emma, and, I am sure, for Austen herself when she wrote it. 😁 I love all of your videos, and the history that comes along with Austen's allusions, and the contemporary/modern critiques of her work.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Throughout _Emma_ we weave between Emma and the narrative voice's perspective (the novel perhaps contains Austen's most playful use of free indirect discourse), and often it is very hard to tell from which perspective we are being told the story. Before the strawberry speech, the narrative reads: "Emma felt an increasing respect for it [Donwell Abbey], as the residence of a family of such true gentility, untainted in blood and understanding.-Some faults of temper John Knightley had; but Isabella had connected herself unexceptionably. She had given them neither men, nor names, nor places, that could raise a blush. These were pleasant feelings, *and she walked about and indulged them till it was necessary to do as the others did, and collect round the strawberry-beds* .-The whole party were assembled, excepting Frank Churchill, who was expected every moment from Richmond; and Mrs. Elton, in all her apparatus of happiness, her large bonnet and her basket, was very ready to lead the way in gathering, accepting, or talking-strawberries, and only strawberries, could now be thought or spoken of.- ... " It seems to me that the opening section here is from Emma's internal perspective (i.e. it is Emma's view that the Knightleys show "true gentility" with an "untainted" "understanding", etc). But the narrative voice seems to be directing the action again when it comments that Emma "walked about" indulging in her pleasant feelings until it was necessary to follow the others to the strawberry beds. If we take it to be the narrative voice continuing, then it would be the narrative voice being rude about Mrs Elton's "apparatus of happiness" (still one of my very favourite descriptions!) and speech. But, given how much we move between the two (Emma's perspective and the narrative voice's) it could well be Emma's own view! Whether it is Emma's or the narrative voice's perspective, I think the point still stands that Austen is playing around with the representation of narrative 'truth' and the depiction of time that would continue to be played around with my subsequent writers, such as Woolf. And, yes, I'd very much like to think that Austen found it very funny too!
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
And thank you. I'm very pleased that you like my videos. Octavia
@susiezavodnyik49862 жыл бұрын
I am so enjoying the videos and discussion!
@susiezavodnyik49862 жыл бұрын
I’ve always wondered why Mr. Darcy was so unpleasant at the ball early in the novel- seems out of character .
@londongael4144 ай бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCox The "apparatus of happiness" - Mrs E would be all over instagram today! Sometimes, there's just no distance at all between Austen and us.
@londongael4144 ай бұрын
Another thing exposed in this extraordinary passage is Mrs Elton's propensity to appoint herself an expert, and to lay down the law, on things she clearly knows nothing about, as we can see from the constant self-contradictions - one of the Elton's most galling characteristics. Picking up on what you say of Austen's courage in writing about boredom, does not this passage make something that would be unbearably tedious to experience into something that is utterly delicious to read? It's like an extract from the index to Mrs Elton's mind, under the heading "strawberry picking". One reason it's hard to catch Austen "in the act of greatness" is, I think, that she was often at pains to conceal her genius. Here, she was obviously enjoying herself so much that she could not help revealing it.
@pmarkhill5195 ай бұрын
C.S. Lewis said, “We read to know we’re not alone.” Jane Austen’s stream of consciousness and her realism are amazing devices that have led me to say through the years, “I read Austen to know I’m not alone.” Once again, Thank you, Dr. Cox, for bringing us your great discussion. Illuminating!
@s.o.37533 жыл бұрын
I love your videos, thank you so much for sharing this with the world! This is like doing that literature degree that I always dreamed of doing at Oxford but never got to, but from my bed.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Very glad you enjoy my videos! Thanks for watching.
@sabahatzafar23822 жыл бұрын
Yes😊
@RaysDad2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Dr. Octavia Cox, this video was very interesting and helpful. The notion of verbal stream-of-consciousness is new to me. Mrs. Elton is funny; I suppose I must read Emma now.
@aleavril3 ай бұрын
I love everything about this analysis👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Thank you! Its “effortlessly” revealing ;)
@FredaM2 жыл бұрын
Thank for your insight into this book. I will read it again.
@MrsDannunzio3 жыл бұрын
I LOVE this topic! I'd love to know much, much more stream of consciousness in Woolf and Austen and other female writers of the time. It's fascinating how these little tidbits do more for characterization than ANYTHING else!
@pec51872 жыл бұрын
My big criticism of this channel is the huge number of adverts.
@fionanogawa17303 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy your lectures, and the pandemic makes your discussions of Austen’s world delicious comfort listening
@user-zo5oj5sn2m9 ай бұрын
Do you think Miss Bates five-minute monologue on entering the ballroom is also an example of stream of conciousness?
@lindagutierrez5409 Жыл бұрын
What I’ve always liked about Jane Austen, her ability to translate words to me as a reader, to capture joy. A joy to be with others, whether snickering at their folly, or laughing with them. Joyful sense of belonging.
@furiosaningveryserious71044 жыл бұрын
Really good lecture. Thank you very much. Can you pick out more actualpassages out of books to analyze them? 💓💓💯
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
Many thanks for your message Furiosa - I'm really glad you found it illuminating. And thanks for the feedback. Yes, this lecture was rather more digressive than some of my others! If you're interested in closer readings of Woolf, you might enjoy my video on Woolf's _A Sketch of the Past_ : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kMWpm69jptWxeYk.html Or on Austen's _Mansfield Park_ : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oLagoMSmnaeRZ4k.html Or for a closer reading of another passage in _Emma_ : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h9KIlteItMqpZYk.html
@catrionahall94443 жыл бұрын
Fascinating.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Octavia
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
Can you think of any other examples of Austen’s narrative playfulness & innovation?
@Lotta-sk8bi3 жыл бұрын
Free indirect speech 🙈
@simonestreeter15183 жыл бұрын
Perhaps Austen did know it was Walter Scott who wrote the review. I like to see the exchange with Benwick in her next novel, "Persuasion," as an acknowledgement of his acknowledging her. When they talk on the beach about poets and poems. Not unlike the homage to Austen that Kipling made in his short story "The Janeites," which also included subtext that is right on the surface, à la Austen.
@samoinborut13393 жыл бұрын
I could listen to you all day long. :)
@judynesher58983 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed your explanation - thanks! However, I believe that it's Miss Bates who says "everybody's favourite - always wholesome." Judy
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Judy. I have always supposed that it is Mrs Elton who is speaking for the whole quotation. But I agree that "everybody's favourite - always wholesome" does sound like it could be something that Miss Bates would say. It has echoes in her repeating the wisdom of Mr Woodhouse's comments about the "wholesome[ness]" of baked apples: " she likes so well as these baked apples, and they are extremely wholesome, for I took the opportunity the other day of asking Mr. Perry; I happened to meet him in the street. Not that I had any doubt before-I have so often heard Mr. Woodhouse recommend a baked apple. I believe it is the only way that Mr. Woodhouse thinks the fruit thoroughly wholesome..." (vol.2, ch.9)
@nidhird3 жыл бұрын
Mrs Elton keeps contradicting her own previous statements as she’s in such a hurry to share every thought as soon as it arises that she’s not paying much attention to the details of exactly what she’s saying and maybe also that she just wants to talk for the sake of talking and saying things she doesn’t really believe and later when she’s tired, exhausted, her real thoughts and feelings spill out, (as you make it clear by comparing the contradictory statements
@nidhird3 жыл бұрын
When we read the statements in the way you presented in the video, side by side with their counterpart, it’s so easy to see that how ridiculous and incomprehensible her monologue really is. Great video.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I think she likes to talk for the sake of talking - and of being in control of the situation.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I love the comparisons too - the juxtapositions in such proximity to each other undermine her completely.
@furiosaningveryserious71044 жыл бұрын
Dr Cox, can you give some lectures on Henry James, d h Lawrence “s form and methods in the future if possible ? I also have questions about Virginia Woolf “s essays.
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the suggestions! Much appreciated. I shall add them to my list of future topics.
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
Furiosa, As you suggested, I've made a video about D H Lawrence's use of form and method, focussing on rhyme, in his poem 'Autumn Rain', which you can watch here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/esx9m7V0nbeqp3k.html I hope you enjoy it! Octavia
@lizziebkennedy75053 жыл бұрын
Woolf seems interested in characters who do "parse" their experience and think about themselves, living, which of course is a modernist precept. Even as a kid I felt Austen was at her peak when showing us absurd characters, the ones who seem incapable of reading others cues, or feeling perceptions about themselves. John and Isabella Thorpe and Mrs Elton, but even Miss Bates to a much lesser extent. Miss Bates I think does know, and can't quite stop herself, and it is poignant and we feel the shifts she's had to endure. But the Thorpes and even Mrs Allen, and Mrs Jennings and her daughters, and Mrs John Dashwood - Fanny Ferrars as was. Elizabeth Elliot, and Sir Walter. There is nuance here, such as the Steele sisters, who pretend to be conscious, and Mrs Jennings is so genuinely kind. It's endlessly fascinating and I love hearing your expert teachings. Thank you!
@rachelport37233 жыл бұрын
Do you think the consciousness being represented here is Emma's? She hears this kind of drone of Mrs. Elton's monologue which she is only hearing bits of while her mind is elsewhere, as annoying as a fly might be. I can almost feel the heat of the day as Mrs. Elton responds to the discomfort with crossness and complaints.
@DrOctaviaCox3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I think it could well be. The words are clearly Mrs Elton's - the passage is introduced to us referring to Mrs Elton's "talking" explicitly: "Mrs. Elton...was very ready to lead the way in gathering, accepting, or talking-strawberries, and only strawberries, could now be thought or spoken of.-" But the question of who selects the bits that are remembered / reported is up to readers to determine. And I agree with you. I think this section is a fabulous representation of exactly what it's like to listen to someone who's droning on and on and on, and you are zoning in and out of listening to them!
@pec51872 жыл бұрын
However I do enjoy CLOSE reading
@rogerpersell85002 жыл бұрын
Dr. Cox, wouldn’t a note or two about Ford Madox Ford be even more revealing here than a passage from Virginia Woolf? A stream of consciousness from “The Good Soldier” makes it clear AND exposes the “impressionism” that you refer to. Written well before “Mrs. Dallowy”!
@bebly97974 жыл бұрын
Hello! I am still struggling to understand. So, if I get it right, stream of consciousness happens in the mind, in the thoughts of the character, it's internal process. But Mrs elton is speaking. To me the strawberry scene is not about her mind but her reception. As you say in the end, the reader experiences or gets the impression of how it feels to listen to her in a hot summer day: a bit amusing, a lot insufferable. The narrator must be someone of her party who is suffering too; maybe Emma herself who is kind of taking mental notes of the nonsense she's hearing. I remember when I read this scene for the first time I was surprised by the use of " - " . Was it something new in that period? Is not the free indirect discourse closer to stream of consciousness? Thank you👋
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
Yes, you’re right. Classic (i.e. Modernist) stream-of-consciousness happens internally, in the mind of a character, and the Austen passage doesn’t conform to that. But I do think that Austen is revealing the flow of Mrs Elton’s mind (but amusingly editing it to highlight Mrs Elton’s ridiculousness). I do think that something is revealed about Mrs Elton’s mind and her ‘unconscious’ (as it would later be called) in the way that Austen chooses to write the passage. I agree with you, I don’t think the passage fits completely and neatly into a stream-of-consciousness box, but - as I say in the video - I do think that Austen’s prose narrative style begins to explore ideas about representing characters’s minds that would go on to become stream-of-consciousness. A fun thought-experiment.
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
That’s a fantastic point you make about the closeness between free indirect discourse and stream-of-consciousness! Yes, I think there are lots of points of similarity (especially, the focus on and literary development of representing the mind of a character without simply stating “she thought”, “he thought”, etc). I suppose that an important difference would be that the narrative voice continues to have a far more overt presence in free indirect discourse (of course, there is also a filter in stream-of-consciousness too, but part of the point is that it’s veiled). Also, generally in free indirect discourse the character has (or at least the narrative voice interprets the mind of the character as having) a firm opinion &/or perception about the subject at hand, whereas often in stream-of-consciousness readers experience the character in the act of thinking and/or deliberating (as in the excerpt from Woolf’s _Mrs Dalloway_ ). But, yes, I agree that free indirect discourse is another important precursor (especially in terms of narrative literary technique) to stream-of-consciousness.
@bebly97974 жыл бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCox I am currently rereading Emma and am noticing that JA used the same tecnique of the strawberry scene scattered in strings through the novel. For example in chapter 15 at Mr Elton declaration:"hoping - fearing - adoring - ready to die if she refused him" and at the end of the same chapter it's mr Woodhouse: "trembling for the dangers of a solitary drive from Vicarage Lane - turning a corner which he could never bear to think of - and in strange hands - a mere common coachman - no James". As if the strawberry scene is the climax which JA carefully prepared all through the novel. Then, I don't remember if her other novels have the same tecnique or it's just an "Emma thing".
@DrOctaviaCox4 жыл бұрын
That's a really fantasitc observation! I haven't researched it thoroughly but I don't think she uses the same technique elsewhere (certainly not to the extent of the Mrs Elton strawberry scene). It's one of the most extraordinary aspects of Austen's novels - that each one is characteristically itself in terms of technique and yet, of course, at the same time characteristically "Austen". Quite the feat!
@blueamberify Жыл бұрын
Two years late to this conversation, but I was also thinking about the internal vs external distinction noted in the first comment when watching the video. I agree that what Austen gives us is a description of speech rather than internal thought, but I think that part of what makes it amusing is that the speech FEELS so much like internal thought - you get the sense that Mrs Elton has no filter between brain and mouth.
@kimberlyperrotis89623 жыл бұрын
My family makes “conversation” exactly like Mrs. Elton’s monologue. Any attempt to interject anything, exchange ideas, interrupt the evgusive flow, or change the subject is immediately quashed before the first three words are out of someone’s mouth. It’s an unending interruption contest of irrelevant, inane nothings said thousands of times before, like excruciating detailed accounts of what they ate the day before. After 20 minutes, I just want to run away. This is probably why I hate stream-of-consciousness writing in general, but I love Austen’s light use of it because it’s actually funny, unlike my family’s, which is in equal parts irritating and excruciatingly boring. It’s as if I’m not even there, they just want to hear themselves talk and for me to nod occasionally. I get enough of that, I don’t want any more to spoil my reading.
@betaniasebastianlopes65692 жыл бұрын
People who don't listen are the tragedy of the world. We may laugh at them in novels but at the end of the day all they can offer is isolation. Many blessings to you.
@kimberlyperrotis89623 жыл бұрын
Austen’s work so much more subtle, complex and interesting than that of the big storytellers of the time, Scott and Edgeworth; they are both fantastical, melodramatic, unrealistic, ponderous and extremely boring. Austen is worth a hundred of such mediocrities. I never understood the popularity of such writers, they wrote material of quality similar to the average 1970-1980s TV show, which also bored me out of watching TV for a lifetime. I bought two new TVs six years ago and have yet to put them out, why bother? Everyone told me I must have them.
@kimberlyperrotis89623 жыл бұрын
I can’t stand Wolf or Joyce. I don’t enjoy stream-of-consciousness writing, I don’t enjoy having to work so hard to understand what they’re saying.
@kimberlyperrotis89623 жыл бұрын
Oops, misspelled Woolf.
@lovelight92613 жыл бұрын
Sound quality is distracting. Just too many asides. I appreciate what you say, just not the way you speak in this recording. I usually enjoy listening to your videos.