Yeah I agree. A system's integrity shouldn't be reliant on me staying on my feet and never stumbling or anything. I'm a fan of using a redirected brake strand with a prussik, although the Italian hitch seems a little more convenient.

Like it!

Bobby from how not 2 taught me that saying

Thanks for the kind words! Glad you’re enjoying them.

His method of instructional video is incredibly rare. I find all too often that other channels tell you 'THE CORRECT AND SAFE WAY' to do things, leaving you feeling intimidated and worried about meticulously remembering the fine details. Where JB, gives a few options (that are safe), tells you which one he prefers and uses and why, but leaves ou feeling that another way that maybe you prefer (that is still safe) is totally cool. bravo.

Sorry to be offtopic but does anyone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account? I was dumb lost my login password. I love any tricks you can offer me!

@Isaiah Jesse thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

@Isaiah Jesse It worked and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D Thanks so much you saved my account !

Great to hear enjoying them! Plenty more to come :)

Same here!

Pleasure :)

Thanks for the kind words and glad you've liked them!

Glad you like it!

Very kind, thank you ☕️💪

Glad you like 'em! I like that turn of phrase "making her lead"...!

I used to teach using a Prusik, I just find it's a little nicer to use a "proper" belay method. I'd still personally be happy with a Prusik though.

That italian hitch is almost magical, solves so many issues, essential part of your "tool box" haha.

My pleasure 👊

Glad it was helpful!

Glad you liked it!

Absolute pleasure 👊

I find it interesting that DMM say it's ok to lower without a back up. The Pivot does seem easier to modulate, but I'm still not keen. The ATC Guide info from BD shows using a back up.

@@JBMountainSkills me neither, the potential is scary but rare I guess, but we are talking about a long lower here not a few feet...

My pleasure!

Glad I could help!

JB Mountain Skills you did man, went out today to a top belay spot with all your techniques and it went smooth!

Glad you like them!

@@JBMountainSkills Hey Jez, could you talk about the retreading of the tail you do on your tie in? I like that. Especially when taking coils I find the tail gets in the way and can be confusing.

Christopher Chorney I’ll add it to the list!

It’s an option for sure.

Glad you're liking them! It's certainly a consideration. I think about in terms of "normal" belaying though, where there's no back up, so it's no worse than that. Another option is to replace the Italian Hitch with a Prusik, which would then be a "dead man switch", but with its own cons..!

I wouldn't bother, it doesn't work well or safely really.

I'm not sure I understand? Why would a clove hitch that's been tied one handed come undone?

Personally, probably not. It's just extra faff. I'd rather use a GriGri if I wanted the assisted braking element.

My pleasure!

That's why they're all 10-20 minutes ;)

I'd probably just use an Italian Hitch rather than a guide plate, or I often use a GriGri for similar scenarios. You could lower with a standard guide plate redirected and then when they're at the bottom, let the ATC Guide engage and lock, sack off the back up and go into belaying them back up in guide mode. Hope that makes sense, and hope I understood the question properly!

@@JBMountainSkills Got it, that does make sense. Agree that the Grigri may be easier in this situation. I always like to know the options. Thanks

I think you have the right idea. Make a matter point somewhere around 1m back from the edge with an overhang on a night etc. 2 things are connected to your master point: 1) you with 1m of slack so you can sit on the edge and see your partner, and 2) the belay device in guide mode. The climbers rope and brake ropes are then sitting next to you on the ground.

famfolk I'm sure I've done this or similar, belaying from a seated position with legs over the cliff edge... are you describing the belay device, sitting on ' flat ' ground, with all that rope running horizontally? so the load bearing rope that's leading to seconder passes over the edge or lip of the cliff? I have never tried that ... seems hard ... I think I would have put belay device OVER the edge, but you don't want to be leant forwards to operate it (unless it's a desperate situation & it's expedient!) although with the right help from tapes or ropes you can lean against something supportive. I am thinking while brainstorming that I'm not qualified to comment LOL Both these strategy are pretty awkward.. I think I would have instead run the anchors over the edge and have all the action over there. Me and belay device over the edge - perhaps now the belay device will be in free space instead of pinned onto the ground. Sit in harness facing rock with feet spread. Coil loops over one foot. Get gr8 view of what the seconder is doing. Better with a serious harness obvs ;) I am not good enough to sports climb, have the overkill of a bigwall harness now I'm old, much more comfy to sit!@

Glad it was useful! Normally it would be a sling style setup, but you can use the rope too, depends on the situation really.

Mark Demmery not something I do, but no reason why not!

Glad you’re enjoying them! It really is a minor negative that it may be slightly more awkward to redirect it if you need to lower, only because the redirect will have to go further up the system, probably on to a piece of your belay. Nothing to be stressed about!

JB Mountain Skills Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for getting back to me. Keep up the good work.

*interested - but maybe this sin't very clear description :( I never found this. Is she leading. I think one opposing piece in yr anchor (resisting the lifting action) would fix this? OR - if they're seconding - are you not belaying from the anchors (plate/Grigri hanging from anchors)? I thought the friction and give in this kindof system would minimise how much (lift?) you get. OR - perhaps this is my secret - hope yorue partner is *better* than you - so she isn't taking massive falls on second LOL ;)

Italian Hitches can twist the ropes a bit with a lot of use, but I don't generally find it a problem. I use them a lot in scrambling work. I don't ever use the monster, but it's a nice thing to know :)

Not sure! I think they advise using a crab to lever it open? Must admit I do like a back up of some flavour.

Hi Jeffrey, I have to draw the line somewhere with these videos, I make them too long as it is! You're right it is a slight risk, mostly if using very skinny ropes with two clients, involving a traverse. I'd get out at places like Subluminal and Cattle Troughs if you're near there, if you have experience of sea cliff stuff, whilst they're not in the scope of RCI they're great to have in the logbook if you have the appropriate skills. enjoy the RCI process :)

Glad you like them :) Good question... I lose track but I think I have!

David L regular Dyneema ones, usually dmm. Because the rope is dynamic, it doesn’t matter that the sling is static. It’s the same principle of QuickDraw dog bones being static - the rope does all the shock absorbing.

@@JBMountainSkills that makes a lot of sense, thank you. Is there a point to make those redundant? Maybe as a multipitch beginner?

Yeah every belay needs to have redundancy 🙂

You could, but I'd rather bring the rope down to an Italian/Munter or Prusik. I think that's what I show in this video. Lots of ways to achieve safe lowering :)

Good question! In the video I do back up the redirected lower with an Italian Hitch, I do like to have a back up on there :)

Also keen to know - I actually did put the belay device in the shelf for some climbs at the weekend and thought it was neat so keen to know why I was wrong lol

Yup, every time! Or an Italian hitch if I didn’t have a Grigri

Crux Equipment yeah I mention them in the vid. Don’t like using them in an instructing sense though as it paints a slightly odd picture.

Hi Dan, yeah absolutely you can. There's an old video on my channel somewhere teaching it that way! I have settled on the Italian hitch as my preferred method these days, but I still think the Prusik back up is a decent way to do it.

I've seen it done, but it's not something I'd normally recommend. I'd rather use something designed for it like a grigri or alpine click up if you need two ropes.

Cheers! Good questions. I am really loathe to suggest it's ok to pull up on the release hole of the belay device without any back up, having seen / heard of some pretty "exciting" moments. I suspect it's one of those things that if you're well practiced at it, it can work ok, and like you say if it goes too fast, you just change the angle, but I guess the problem comes from people panicking a little, especially with the device in an "odd" orientation compared to normal belaying. If I was doing some single pitch stuff and was expecting to lower I'd favour a GriGri or similar myself.

If you can, try some different carabiners with it. The one the ropes run over can make quite a difference :)

Did you check to make sure your ATC can handle the width in that configuration. My Black diamond atc cant handle wider ropes when belaying 2 from the top as opposed to belaying a single rope from the ground

Same thing, that's what he meant. It's Munter by the way, Werner Munter, not even 'Italian'.

It's sometimes called an Italian Hitch as it was first shown at a Guides conference in Italy. Just because you know it as a Munter, it doesn't mean that's it's common name in every region.

You could, I'd rather back it up on the braking side though.

Because it was first shown at a Guides conference in Italy.

Yup but only if using just one rope.

But... two ropes.

​@@JBMountainSkills I hear you, but in terms of top belaying this is way too many moving parts if you need to lower them. As a guide I'm certain you know what you're doing but I'm strongly inclined to the view the majority of climbers should use a Grigri and top belay one climber at a time.

They’re the same thing. I believe it was first shown at an Italian Guides conference or something similar so became known as the Italian Hitch, but it was popularised by Werner Munter, a Swiss Guide, so also became known that way. In the U.K. it gets called both, but more frequently an Italian.

@@JBMountainSkills Well I've been climbing for decades and this is the first time I've heard of "Italian hitch". Asked my British friend and he says munter is more common but it's also a slur for fat women or somesuch so maybe that's why some people use italian :)

@@The_Ballo not that it matters but in my decades of climbing both personal and for work, in the U.K. Italian Hitch is by far the most common, but most know both names for it.

the link gave me a 404 error, ill get you a dring next time at petes eats

@@stevebower1393 cheers, fixed it now!