he was massivly over in europe

@Yuvi Awell dark according to Vinces bank account and legal status where he faced potential jail time, but had a good legal team. Today is pretty good in comparison, just poor bc of lack of competition, and creative team, which suck, and make the product worse.

Bret was always reliable. Reason why a great wrestler like Jake the Snake never was champion for a length of time. You couldn't rely on Jake back then.

@@ramzy-1096 And In Asia

Hunter wasn't ready? He was destined to be a B wrestler until he started banging Stephanie.

But Bret Hart was outstandingly talented and arguably the greatest of all time and would called a big guy by todays standards.

i actually think we missed his prime when he went to wcw in 97. thanks hbgay

@@devangpatel5227 by the time Bret went to WCW he was past his peak. Not to say he couldn't still put on a good match but to say we missed his prime when he went to WCW is crazy. We had already seen the best of Bret. By 98 he was all banged up.

@@stephanielopez6275 maybe not in the ring but on the mic he was really hitting his stride along with his in ring psychology. he def wasn't as quick and athletic anymore

@@devangpatel5227 on the mic I agree but that started and was pretty much perfected all in 97 imo with that Canadian heel gimmick.

Come one, that bus tour couldn't of been that much lmao...

There were 2 problems with Lex keeping the Narcissist gimmick: 1) Mr. Perfect. There was only room for one "perfection gimmick" in the WWE, and that was held by "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig, and 2) Shawn Michaels, who had been bringing a mirror to the ring since before the Narcissist arrived with his own mirror.

Stupid WWF gimmicks ruined the chances for a lot of great talent. Lex didn't need the gimmick. Sure, let him be a narcissist that he was, but he didn't need it as a title...

I definitely enjoyed his "Attitude Adjustment" pile-driver more than the human torture rack as a finisher.

He probably would have kept that gimmick longer had Hogan not left. Too much appeal to Vince that try and slide Lex in to be the next Hogan thinking maybe it would be possible to just plug and play with another jacked blonde dude. But of course that logic misses the intangibles Hogan brought which wasn’t solely his physique but his personality and charisma that Lex just didn’t have. And of course doing it right after Hogan leaves makes it pretty obvious that you’re trying to create a Hogan copy to fans. If there was any chance they needed to wait a bit to have fans actually want to see Lex transition to a good guy and then put the house behind him to get him there rather than trying to rush in a Great Value Hogan. And of course how things could change if Lex had the right attitude to embrace the transition which he didn’t have. The idea of how he didn’t want to stay and ride on that bus says a lot in the end. Sure it isn’t ideal and wouldn’t be anybody’s preference but somebody who’s ready to be the flag bearer would openly embrace that investment to rise to that level and devour the opportunity to make it work and Lex didn’t. Hard to put the boat behind someone who pushes back on six weeks of less comfort than normal comfort because they can’t see that a small sacrifice with that is keyed up to lead to long term reward. A Cena for example would’ve devoured the same chance in his rise up the ranks and that’s a lot of why Lex always had the potential to be that guy but never got there.

When you can go out of business and still live like a king, none of that matters.

"You can't stop talent."

Vince said it best, that Bret Hart became champion the old fashion way, he earned it.

Yep 100% correct, fans flocked to Bret, while Lugar’s reception was lukewarm, Bret was revered. I know…I lived through it and was there😎.

More so the investors don't understand a goddamn thing about wrestling.

Never liked Goldberg you give a guy who's brand new? Let him come into the business and beat everyone on your roster. That makes your roster look like trash. It was a stupid short-sighted idea from people who didn't understand wrestling Goldberg should have never been a star period!!

@@deleteduser121 WCW was pretty much emasculating all their talent back then. They did it with Sting for almost a year. At a certain point, at the end of every Monday Nitro, you could expect to watch him jump down from the rafters with a bat and beat up 30 guys all by himself. Why would anyone want to keep watching that? It gets old quick. It was like doing the robo cop angle again, but this time they brought in Steven Seagall to beat up the entire NWO. And they basically had no choice but to do that because almost everyone in WCW was NWO, so either Sting was going to beat up all of them up every week, or they were all gonna beat him up all the time, and it wouldn't work to have 30 guys put the star in the hospital every week for a year. The NWO had one or two good ideas, and once they ran their course, the entire thing was garbage. It shouldn't have lasted more than 2 years. I've always said, wrestling needs an off season. Something to make people miss it for a while, that will give creative time to plan out ideas that are not crap. Also something to force Macmahon to stay home with his wife😬

@@StannisHarlock hmm never thought about a wrestling off season but the industry is super greedy so that's probably why they don't have it. Still think the worst idea is Goldberg. I really hate Goldberg cuz I'm a huge Bret Hart fan. But some people say the whole Monday night wars was a little concocted. What I'm saying is maybe even the competition from WCW and WWE was fake in itself. A sort of Freemason ritual there can only be one two into one sort of. It ended in 2001 and it started on September 11th, 1995 and ran for like I think it was 223 weeks or something like that

@@StannisHarlock also bischoff he couldn't come up with any new ideas. He was controlled by the wrestlers. He was not a wrestling guy. He was a TV guy. He didn't know what he was doing. He was way in over his head and I think he really shoulders most of the blame. When Russo came in, he at least tried new things. They had enough talent. They could have turned to things around with but they never tried anything else besides nwo and Goldberg and whatever they were doing with sting. Whatever happened there

Yes Bret is the best. I do know of a guy who is better than the best.

@Old Man The MachoMan Randy Savage is better than the best!!! Dig it!!! Ooohh YEAH!

@@regulardadhere8832 lololol! Love Macho Man too! 'The Cream Of The Crop! Nobody Does It Better!".

The loss to British Bulldog (one of the bets matches I ever seen) was what catapulted Bret to the moon

When I was a young kid I didn't realize how good of a worker Bret was because I thought pro wrestling was real .

Yeah same I remember liking both Bret and Owen, Razor, Steiners. I really liked Adam Bimb too and thought he deserved more I always hated Shawn because he won way too easily against some guys. I remember watching him flip up after a yokozuna belly to belly. It really p#ssed me off as a kid. Now I understand why it did, and why Shawn got away with that crap. I can look back now and I just think Bret is miles ahead of anyone I've ever seen. Just perfect in so many ways

Totally. I've often thought of two dream matches... Bret vs Angle Hart Foundation vs Midnight Express (either version)

Not really. From the time Bret lost to Shawn he spent eight months away from the company, came back and feuded with Austin, and then won the title a couple more times until he transitioned to Shawn at Montreal. The move where Vince asked him to go was because the fans chose Austin and the company was gearing up for him it for Shawn.

@@ferox965 I wonder what the buildups would be like.

@@Matt-cr4vv considering how Shawn was acting there was no way Vince could build a feud that last for years so it was literally a 1 time deal while Bret the constant professional had a good 5 years in him. Having Austin Bret The Rock Undertaker Kane Foley Angle and eventually HHH they really didn’t need Shawn but Vince did.

@@Matt-cr4vv I agree and the thing is before Bret returned they were building for a triple threat match between Austin Undertaker and Shawn for the Belt and how they were building Austin I do believe the belt was going to go to him - so in all honestly I think Bret returning scuppered Austin getting the belt that year; thankfully it was redeemed by them both putting on a great double turn match. However, when things are looked at from Shawn Michaels' POV, he holds the Championship Belt during this time. This wonderful build to a triple threat match was suddenly gone, the Undertaker was eventually moved back to Mid Card (which would have pissed me off) and Shawn is being inserted as an afterthought RE: Hart & Austin, then Hart & Undertaker, just so Bret could be crowbarred into a storyline that had already taken off. In all honesty had I been in the same position as Shawn Michaels I would have been livid having carried the weight of being the face for the Company just to have someone return, sh*t on them verbally and then take the spotlight from them. I do not like it when someone does not "do business" and drop the belt but in this case I do sympathise with Shawn Michaels and at least understand why he would not drop the belt in a match and instead forfeited it. Trouble is, instead of being a sneaky behind closed doors politicker (like Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan to name a couple, though there were so many more) Shawn Michaels was such an in your face, vocal politicker he gets dumped on so much his POV is rarely looked at.

Did he just 'do it' for you?

@@MotherAlgorithm Eh...what? I appreciated his wrestling talents.

Most kids getting into WWF in the early 90's were...we didn't care too much about the vitamins and prayer Hulk Hogan's or the roided up Warrior's, we were drawn to the cool rock star looking guy in the shades and leather jacket

I absolutely HATED this period of the WWF but NOT because of Bret Hart! I saw him as the Bob Backlund of the 90s! Like Backlund with Bruno Sammartino Hart had to follow Hulk Hogan and the foes he had to face were boring! Jean Paul LaFite, Papa Shango, Hakushi, ZZzzz only by Bret's facing veterans like the heel turned Backlund, Jerry Lawler and his own brother Owen could make this fan stay awake long enough to care!

Stop lying you clown. You were a hulkamaniac and don't deny it

Shawn really gets elevated by what he did when he came back in 2002. If Bret could have wrestled in that era i can only imagine the types of matches he could have put on. Bret was always best with a good storyline and a great opponent to feud with. They started that formula in the mid 90s with havibg oromo packages and storyies for every match on a ppv card, and perfected it by the mid 2000s , and the style of wrestling changed in those eras, wrestlers did more in the ring and athleticism was allowed to shine through more in matches, but old school elements were still there where it wasn’t just spot fests.

Those match up ideas even got me to mark out a little😁

Lex wasn't "terrible". Was Lex a great worker? No, but he was big, athletic, he moved well in the ring and was serviceable as worker. He wasn't ever going to carry a match but he always held his end up.

@@joetamburello6292 His interviews were believable, that was enough. It was very easy to buy in to Bret, especially when the rivalries started getting more meaningful and heated. Better than listening to the other guys knowing it was never going to amount to as good a match. Mic skills are given a little bit too much weighting at times when assessing a wrestler's abilities, I think it's a bonus, but it's not that important. What I think is important is a wrestler's ability to make you suspend your disbelief on kayfabe and Bret always managed to do that.

@@joetamburello6292 What do you disagree about?

@@joetamburello6292 Well, what is your opinion? How important to do you think mic skills are versus a memorable wrestling encounter? Doesn't have to be some big argument or disagreement, I'm just curious because there's alot of irrational Bret haters out there that just shit on him and can never come up with a clear logical rationale as to why.

@@joetamburello6292 Shawn Michaels was never better than Bret, but I see where you might be coming from on how Bret comes off in shoots.

My issue with Bret is that he is very arrogant and whiny

@@joetamburello6292 Not arrogant when you can back it up and he has every right to be 'whiny' he got screwed over by Vince and then they killed his brother.

Agree to disagree

@@joetamburello6292 Id still be bitter if that happened to me.

@@joetamburello6292 Whats your point alot of wrestlers are arrogant and way worse than Bret. Hbk for example didn't want to dropntitles or do jobs for anyone except his buddies. And everyone nitpick one situation with Bret in Montreal. When Hbk wouldn't return the favor and drop the title back to him. Let's look at everything at all angles before we judge Bret

High spots can be great if they’re used right as part of an ascending action in the match. Watch Bret vs 123 Kid and you’ll see how someone who uses a lot of high spots can execute them with the proper psychology.

@@Thor-Orion 100% correct. And done sparingly to support the story so the high spots are different from the any other. End of the day, I can compliment you and you'll appreciate. I compliment you again the next time and you think... 👍 3rd time? What de ya want? 4th time it's just patronising. 5th time insulting.

Man I never comment but I love smart takes like that. I struggle with this. Young bucks have been telling a story with a ton of high spots and the crowd exploded(Hangman and Kenny, Lucha bros cage) but you can't have those kinda matches all the time. Punk and Darby told a great story(Bret v kid style) and not everyone thought it was great as I did. Such a fascinating topic bro

@@dougdaniels9477 🤜🤛

"Spot" on.

That match was garbage too which didn't help

He won WCW world title in the same building 1997

And he didn't have to call himself that either. No one yelled die Hitman die liked with Rocky M

Yeah I think he got mixed up with Summerslam ‘94 which was in Chicago.

Every match a ring a ding dong dandy! But now... In the meantime and in between time...😢

Neither could really talk and that was the problem. They could sell wrestling, not a persona.

@@jasonelliott7977 I know but u got to admit still better than most of today's they need promo training

But I guess I'm happy to hear it happened in the former territory of the World Wide Wrestling Federation

Exactly. Lex sucked as a worker but it wasn’t his fault they gave him a horrible gimmick and segregated him on his own bus for a summer. When he went to WCW he got over huge as a face against the NWO organically

@@NateMac434 his whole career he has been screwed over. Bruiser Brody,against Flair many times especially that 1988 match in Baltimore at the GAB,Flair leaves,he wins the vacant championship from Barry,in WWF he is thee Narcissist,few months later he is Hulk Hogan,Royal Rumble 94 gets screwed and finally at WrestleMania 10 he gets disqualified. Oh he beats Hollywood Hulk Hogan on a random Monday when the showdown was that Saturday. They screwed Lex Luger so much but something about him is appealing to me. One of my favorites. He only did 2 things in returning to WCW. He shocked the hell outta everyone showing up and beating Hollywood Hulk Hogan bef Sting did.

@@larrystilltheeman39 Hall and Nash knew he was fucked over and it was his time. they were the ones that talked hulk into putting him over clean on nitro. I watched that recently the fans lost their minds. he was major over in 97 and 98

@@NateMac434 didn't know that. I think it was stupid. Wait until Saturday. Hog Wild was that Saturday. I am mad because I paid for that ppv. My moms asked was that match coming on free and I lied to her

Unfortunately wrestling has changed like that. You're right and these spot guys and wrestling aficionados of today don't understand wrestling, story telling and more importantly selling as if you're in a physical tug of war! Its no one's fault really tho!

@@souryabanik You've hit on something there. The story telling aspect is something that Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and Taker knew the value of, understood, and knew how to utilize. That's the reason why the series of four Wrestlemania matches they did are classics and stand the test of time. I'd have to say you're right, and storytelling, to a large extent, is missing in today's wrestling. That goes for any brand. I don't care which promotion you're talking about. Maybe it's people's short attention span. Who knows.

Like who? Other than say the young bucks. Those spot guys were all over ecw and I don't recall any complaints. RVD was one of them and the Hardy's were spot guys too, there were tons of that style in lighter weight matches

I’ve been saying that for months, and JR knows. You can hear it in his voice when he’s calling those constant high spots, hopefully punk and Danielson can slow those kids down

@@BeeBumper but not so much in the heavyweight/main event matches. To an extent maybe, but not to the extent it is now.

100% longing for the old days

I comment like once a month but that is a interesting point that I don't hear discussed enough. Maybe because they don't want the marks to get credit. Not sure.

And he had all of Canada. There was no one else that could take the WWF to a global level except Hart.

But Shawn had "the clique". Bret was never able to play the political stuff as well as them. Once the clique departed to WCW, The Rock and Austin took off in WWE. By that point Bret was both too old and in WCW after Vince and Shawn humiliated Bret.

@@ryanjacobson2508 Bret played politics, Jesus Christ you guys simply are delusional.

@Old Man I know, bret hart is like Cm punk, both marauders

@@kamfisher1714 Yeah, Bret playing politics is what got him ahead. Vince said it best saying that Bret became champ the old fashion way, he earned it. What makes you think that people would listen or believe what you say over J.R. or Vince. It simply is your opinion which you will never have evidence to back it up and why because it never happened. Who was great at politicking for themselves, Hogan, Michaels and HHH.

Oh my yes, I remember when Mabel won the Ring of the Ring there were a group of us watching and yelling Wtf! The internet was on about who had ahold of Vince's balls for him to make that decision and then Mabel started hurting people in matches.

Vince loves monsters. For good or for bad.

@@conniecarroll7222 who had them? Hbk or Patterson depending on the day

You think Bret was natty 😂😂😂

I agree with that

Yokozuna in two matches was tough to watch.

Lex would’ve accomplished his mission by taking the title from the evil sumo and Bret would then win against Lex and make a promise to honor America as much he does his home country

Yup.. lex vs bret in a 30 minute war. That would have been classic.

@@TheMan-je5xq & continent-wise, bret would be a (north) american anyways, so the shoe fits!

@@citizentoxie9875 impact, and yeah thats essentially my argument, Bret was truly global in his popularity even if Shawn may have been a bit more popular in the states.

I have a feeling Lex may not have wanted to take the L to Bret, the big guys always had that complex about losing to smaller wrestlers and there may have been concerns that Luger couldn't possibly find a route back after that. Ironically, Yoko was cool with it, but down on paper it made even less sense to go with him taking the L to Bret instead of Luger, so there had to be some kind of politics involved there. Luger's finish wasn't exactly clean either, so it was clear Vince was still trying to leave that door slightly ajar for Lex. Both Bret and Luger were competing for the same spot, so maybe there were concerns from both men that the match would have ended up being a mess, for different reasons, so Vince might have thought it best that they did not compete directly.

Vince was dumb and should have went with Bret from the beginning.

Bret hart was a flop champion. He was a mid carder at best.

Because Bret and Patt Patterson blamed Luger for the poor house show attendance. Bret kept crying that Vince promised him the belt for 7 years.

Summerslam 93 was also in Auburn Hills, just outside of Detroit. Not Chicago.

@@RobClooney I miss that part

Mr perfect

@@paulbrennan3472 THANKS, I forgot about him! His WWF in ring career was too short for me!

Wouldn`t have been a very good match though, Luger was not a good worker.