Say, you're right. I didnt think of that

Peter Jackson goes into a long explanation about how he wants Lee to react and Lee says, "Have you any idea what kind of noise happens when somebody's stabbed in the back? Because I do.”

@@robertpatter5509 That's when you remember the man was once a soldier.

@@Neobahamutfr36 not just any soldier he was basically British special forces he knew how to kill you without making a sound

@@danieldesario6120 Yep, that's right. Respect for the man.

Here here!

Just like Napoleon from Animal Farm.

“No taste for blood, huh? They’ve taken the *animal* out of you”.

Well said 👏

There is ALWAYS a monstrous and vicious creature lurking just under the surface. Our test, is to always protect others from it. Always.

It’s a strong male instinct to get in between a female and danger, even when he has no realistic chance of protecting her. Not something you see portrayed in film too often anymore.

@@Noplayster13That Murderer got what he deserved

I wonder if the farmer's cat cause that injury?

I’m the book, he explains that he injured himself while dosing the cat’s bowl w a sedative, same as mrs frisbee tries to do later. He tripped and hurt himself.

​@@lukeandersen5386They explain it in the film too. Justin tells her when she visits the rose bush

Well Jenner did injure the other one before Sullivan tossed him his. Also swords are long and heavy; difficult to switch from hand to hand. Most people are right handed so in medieval times, horseback riders would have their swords on the right side of the saddle. So they would mount the horse on the left so that they didn’t hit the sword. We still get on horses from the left (the left side is the right side/the right side is the wrong side-two sayings to remind you)!

@@downhomesunset You don't carry your sword on the right side of the saddle if you have to DRAW IT with your right hand. It's biomechanically impractical to do so unless it's an EXTREMELY short blade like a gladius. Swords are worn on the left hip or carried on the left side of the saddle to facilitate the length of draw. Also, swords are NOT heavy. Even a longsword only weighed at most 3.5 - 4lbs, with the majority averaging around 2.5 - 3. The big German and Swiss Zweihanders seldom exceeded 6lbs, with anything heavier being a processional or ceremonial sword not intended for actual combat. Jenner's and Justin's swords aren't even longswords, but closer in proportion to the arming sword, which tended to top out around 2.5lbs.

@@scootergirl3662 he waste his good scratch. 1:30

She also didn't say "Watch out or Behind you"

Me too! It wasn't what you would see in a typical battle scene when someone else is scared.

Don't forget that Mr. Ages is seeing Jenner is going to do to Justin.

You guys are good

@@TheImaginator972Odd thing is I'm so focused on her reaction every time over the years I never noticed his, not even sure I knew he was there. I think her presence and reactions are just that big. Glad you pointed that out. Feels like a new scene to me now.

did they?

For real? That’s cool

They did. This fight scene was rotoscoped over the final fight scene in the movie, The Vikings, starring Kirk Douglas and Tony Curtis. Both intense and well done. You can see some shots of NIMH that are from the movie Vikings, like when Jenner's sword hits the rock at 1:59 and when Jenner swipes Justin's feet at 2:30.

It kinda makes it uncanny to be honest, their movements is a bit too human-like.

they didn't use rotoscoping but video reference! there is a big difference! they used actors to get inspiration. oh my god how do people get this so confused?!

God I miss it when animated films used to be fricken brutal.

@@ricvaladez2563 me too

Yeah. Violet people deserve a violet death. Don Bluth knew it better than many of us today.

@@ricvaladez2563 right, now my little brother watches tik tok and cringey as movies😑

What you talking about, you can still do it there are ways

Plus, he already chose Justin as his successor, even tho Jenner took charge for a bit, but he knew Justin could defeat him. So in the end, he died knowing the Rats are in good hands in the long term.

Sounds like Jesus christ

Its literally Jesus and Peter.

Jenner’s voice actor Paul Shenar would often redo his lines to get the best performance he could after he saw the drawings for the character he was determined to make a good villain performance and it prove to be the right move for

@@Terryfan He did not disappoint. :)

@@PIXELSURPRISE it shows he gave a strong performance

That scream gave me chills as a kid

For a villain who didn’t get a lot of screen time he left a impact and that scream yes

I think his names Sullivan

Stabbed in the back too very poetic.

I feel bad for him. He wasn’t evil - he thought Jenner had everyone’s best interests at heart.

@@jurassicking112 I thought his name was Brutus.

@@ztslovebird that's another rat

Right after losing THE Leader and his mentor too.

that's that true Alpha male spirt right there 🔥

Totally...I feel like Justin mainly holds back at the beginning of the duel due to just the pure shock of Jenner's assaultive change in character. Then the second Jenner monologues about taking everything and revealing how much of a threat he is, Justin decides it's time to put him down knowing full well after skirmishing with him that he has the skills to do so. He did say he was captain of the guard, probably means he has top combative skills. He dispatched him in one quick move the second he took the offensive.

@@dsmooth8481Mmm Hmm

Similar to Ratigan in his final confrontation with Basil. Strip away the intelligence and eloquence and they're really rats

He Was Better Than Disney Is Today!

Yeah I saw this in the theater as a kid. I still love this fricking movie.

I love all dogs go to heaven

All of them except a troll in Central Park and rock a doodle.

Don Bluth was always pretty hit and miss to me as a producer/writer (A Troll in Central Park was asinine garbage, Rock-A-Doodle was awful, the only good thing in the Pebble and the Penguin was its voice cast, and even some of the creative liberties he took with adapted material such as the Secret of Nimh are, in retrospective, kind of questionable), but the animation of his pictures has never been anything less than god-tier.

Yea, otherwise I would have that this story was too unrealistic.

WW2 veteran Christopher Lee himself gave Peter Jackson some technical advice on what sound Nazis make when they get stabbed to death. He listened.

In Saruman's case, that's because Christopher Lee had experience with that sort of thing from the war.

Justin's delivery of that line hits so hard. The voice acting in this movie is brilliant.

One of the tenants of the Great Move to Thorn Valley was that they learn to take care of themselves and stop stealing. To become self-sufficient and not rely on others. A philosophy that Jenner was hoping to kill when he killed Nicodemus.

Great quote Captain Justin!👍

First off, The Great Owl isn't antagonistic despite that Owls are known to eat mice as part of their diet, but this one chose to give Mrs Brisby advice to ask the Rats for Help moving her house due to Timmy's condition. And 2nd, Dragon is slightly Antagonistic to the story because he did try to kill Jeremy and Mrs Brisby first time seeing him. Plus, he's the only main threat to the Rats of NIMH, hence why they have Mrs Brisby drug him to sleep so they can move her house to the Lee of the Stone before the Exterminators arrive and the next Plow starts. But in spite of all that, Dragon is only a cat. Hunting Mice and Rats are in their nature. Plus, given how vicious he has chased them, it's possible that the owner of Dragon trained him alot. So, 3rd, yeah, Jenner is clearly the Monster overall. And I think of both Jenner and Dragon as 2 sides of the same coin. Jenner is a Bloodthirsty Rat who wants to kill anyone in his away, which is against his nature due to NIMH's Experiments on them while Dragon, a scary looking Cat only hunts after them because he mostly sees them as intruders to the Farm.

Yeah Jenner stands out because he's the most ruthless and morally aware of the bunch.

@@phillipwalling7470 at the time that they decided to help move her house-they didn’t know NIMH was coming. In the book, Justin called Mrs Frisby good luck

@Downhomesunset I didn't say they knew of NIMH arriving besides Mrs. Brisby, who was in the cage as the farmer gets the call. I'm comparing the "Antagonists" besides the Owl who isn't at all an Antagonist, but Owls eat mice cause it's part of their diet, so the Great Owl could be one if he chose to.

The Great Owl only killed to eat and stay alive, and that was only at night. But if animals came to him for help or advice, he was willing to help them and leave them be otherwise. Dragon the Cat never was malicious, killing mice, birds, and rats was simply in his nature. But Jenner? Jenner had sentience and free will, and he willingly gave himself over to his monstrous, dark instincts. Everything he did was out of pure malice and lust for power.

That rat is a hero here. He saved Justin's life twice.

@@Darthzilla99he throws that dagger like a ninja. One shot Jenner.

@@toddlindsay8846 One kill

That's because they used rotoscoping which is an animation technique where animators copy live-action motion frame by frame to make it more realistic

also, pretty much all of Don Bluth's films were edgy asf

One of the rare children’s films that aren’t afraid to show blood

It had me at the edge of my seat. I felt like I was in the front row of the dinner show Medieval Times.

@@jonathankeck3549 at first after all dog go to heaven weren’t really that edgy except maybe Anastasia and titan ae

Me too, Don Bluth’s old animated movies are the best, he made this one, All Dogs Go To Heaven 1 & 2 and American Tail which are my favorites. I believe he also animated A Land Before Time as well

@@khaotictrash I was wondering why this gave me all dogs go to heaven vibes.

@@khaotictrash Titan AE and Anastasia, too. I didn't care for Thumbelina and thought it was dumb as an elementary kid.

Jenner confront Justin “Well I’ll have to hand your girlfriend to you. Your a bigger pain in the neck. Than I would have ever thought possible.

@@raymondbrereton3298That sounds like a variation of a line from Atlantis: The Lost Empire.

@@rainbowhawk911 Absolutely positive

Not only that, but as goofy and friendly as he is, when he does get serious, he's definitely not someone to be messed with. The animation makes him look ferocious during the fight, there's no doubt it's a battle to the death. It reminds me of how in "Lady and the Tramp," during the fight with the rat, Tramp goes from normally looking cute and friendly to frightening and savage.

​@Interestingenough4 you can also throw in the moments Chief catches Tod on the tracks or when Copper & Tod square off in the game preserve. The change from cute cartoon animals to animated depictions of real animals is as jarring as it is awesome

@@BigBWolf90me?

Fr Sullivan was a real one

Seeing a hate sink being killed by his former henchman after betraying the said henchman is always great to watch. Sullivan brings the napalm on Jenner, the hyenas devour Scar, the loa demons drag Facillier to hell, Darth Vader kills Palpatine and so on.

​@dordonake The loa spirits were NOT demons like you and some people make it out to be. They didn't drag Facilier to hell.

The score throughout most of this scene is actually quite unsettling. When Mrs. Brisby tells them that NIMH is coming, the music makes it feel like something malevolent is stalking up on them all through the tall grass. Existential dread.

@@schaddenkorp6977True

True-to-be true.

Unfortunately no

Especially Not Disney!

I swear the way Jenner dies really reminds me of kristato's death in for your eyes only. U don't suppose some or most of the people involved in this film are (or were) bond fans, do you?

Don't forget, Aldo Ray, Paul Shenar, John Carradine, Hermione Baddeley, Arthur Malet and Dom DeLuise (the voices of Sullivan, Jenner, The Great Owl, Auntie Shrew, Mr. Ages and Jeremy). They passed away as well.

@@willrobinson3662 Yes, but Hartman passed away by suicide.

@@tangbein that hurt when I found that out.

This looks better than many LIVE ACTION sword fights of the 80s.

Don Bleuth movies hit hard.

@@thegrimmretails3777 it's unfortunate that they pulled the plug on his version of Cats. I think that would have worked out.

You are missing out on Your Name and A Silent Voice.

@TheRecklessMetalhead I've seen both. They are well done. I still hold that this movie is better. And I'm a huge Violet Evergarden fan. NIHM, imo, is still better.

Indeed also rest in peace Jerry Goldsmith

Yeah! That murderer got what he deserved

Now that would be a true work of art and wonderful storytelling.

@@rebeltoonz5466 Hell, yeah! =D

Yep that would be absolutely awesome and Cluny would have been absolutely terrifying.

That’s a good one!

Natural 20 Sneak Attack!

I know right

Yep. It was right on target.

All in the wrist

“It’s all in the reflexes” Jack Burton

Sullivan heard the Call, and did his Duty.

Good call I believe you're correct

@@atticusfinch3931 I think it's been confirmed by Bluth, and I've seen both scenes side by side, and they're almost identical. But unlike Disney, it felt more like they used it as a reference yet tried to stay true to the characters they created. Somehow it makes the fight more epic

And the error flynn film the adventures of robin hood

I once saw The Vikings, when it got to the fight scene I immediately recognized the motions from this movie :D

I am honestly suprised they weren't sued since the reference matches almost 1:1 but the choreography is wonderfully reused here to dramatic effect. It doesn't feel lazy or anything.

12? This movie is 40 years old now! Kinda crazy to think about.

@@A_Bottle-Of_Orange_Crush I watched this in 2010

Yeah, this looks like two people desperately trying to hack each other to bits and not get chopped up in the process.

So real cool fact. Don Bluth used the sword fight that was ddone with live actors with Kirk Douglas was in the movie Vikings. It was a tribute to him and that film. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b7xmjJh0ttW-hIE.html

And showing some actual blood too.

I didn't appreciate it as a child because I was very sensitive to death. Disney's _Tarzan_ I hope people can agree was kinda overkill in this respect, given the villain was presented as pretty goofy for much of the movie.

You got that right, it's one of Don Bluth animated masterpiece of the entire decade and Secret Of NIMH is still my favorite!

True, and it's original too, unlike everything Disney has made.

I guess you don’t know that Disney was first offered to make this movie, but turned it down? And that Don Bluth, as well as most of the animators who worked on this, were former Disney employees who quit and started their own studio? The irony…

@@mutfol Bluth left and took a few animators with him privately so he could still work on The Fox And The Hound.

He's learned nothing in the way of Goodness and Compassion. Being Smart is one thing but using those smarts for the betterment of society takes true courage cause it's largely a thankless task and a lot of the "Smart" people nowadays thrive on awards and appreciation.

Jenner also never learned to fully hone his intellect. He still relied on his survival instincts rather than on logic and reason, unlike Nicodemus, Justin and the rest of the rats.

@@Fenris30 I dunno; he's perfectly reasonable for a rat.

You can be smart, but lack wisdom

Very good assessment!

(They keep fighting until Justin puts up a wooden slab and jabs Jenner in the stomach) Justin: Friends. (Throws his sword aside) Tonight, we journey to Thorn Valley. We shall leave no tracks, no evidence that the rats of NIHM ever existed. Come.

Jenner was still acting like street rat even with the knowledge that was given from NIMH. And Justin was right when he said ' then have learned nothing' with that knowledge even the simplest thing if they stole would be noticed from the farmers and the scientists from NIMH if they saw stuff being stolen

(They keep fighting until Justin puts up a wooden slab and jabs Jenner in the stomach) Justin: Friends. (Throws his sword aside) Tonight, we journey to Thorn Valley. We shall leave no tracks, no evidence that the rats of NIHM ever existed. Come.

Yeah. Jenner was being quarrelsome.

Yea xD

When i imagine Jenner's voice replaced with a child, my first association is Henry Evans from "The Good Son".

If anyone was hysterical, it was Jenner. You really gotta admire Mrs Brisby for standing her ground and continuing to warn the rats despite his protests.

I think that’s part of the point. It shows how Jenner never stopped behaving like an animal and neither could he learn to be more civil with the brain boost from NIMH’s experiments. If a normal rat could speak, they would most likely say basic things like that.

I'm not sure i've ever seen a blade like that in the real world.

It kind of looks like a flamberge sword www.buyingasword.com/flamberge-damascus-sword

The closest would be a flamberge or german zweihander

To me it looks better because it doesn't exist. It's not a downscaled human sword, it's rat sword made with rat's inferior metalworking on a rat scale. The blade isn't straight because they're brute dragging the blade over a scavenged file much too big and you can see the irregularities.

It's funny you say that, one of my best female friends did (from the book Justin, not the movie) He actually dies in the end (which was retconned in the sequel books written by the author's daughter)

Yeah this is one of the greatest deviations from the source material, they effectively spun up an entirely different story and threw out the last third of the book.

@@thomasedwards4515 And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the magic amulet a thing made for the movie and not actually in the book? It's been so long since I read it. XD

@@natebush8217 Yeah the amulet was completely made up. The book was originally about the rose bush being put in jeopardy by the farmer and how the rats dealt with having to flee their first civilization IIRC

Which no surprise cuz it was animated by same person who was previously work with Disney, hence designs.

Don Bluth animated this movie and Disney’s Robin Hood and they might’ve had some of the same writers too so there’s that, and ironically I loved both Justin and Robin as a kid

What I've always liked about the Secret of NIMH is how, at its core, it's a very grounded, relatable story that escalates into a (literally) small-scale fantasy adventure: Mrs. Brisby goes from a destitute single mom who wants her children to be safe to a heroine of an entire society in a matter of days, but she always remains the same humble, tender character that knows full well she's in way over her head, but needs to rise up to the challenge to claim her happy end. In ways, the story reminds me pleasantly of "Lord of the Rings", since it's not destiny, some mythical force or superhuman endurance that keeps Samwise Gamgee going, it's his loyalty and dedication to his friend. Neither he nor Mrs. Brisby chose to embark on an adventure, they went along with it because they wanted to keep their loved ones safe and go home.

That’s why we need Jesus.

Yeah definitely, like wtf were they huffing when they came up with the plot to the second one?

And an American tail, all dogs go to heaven and Anastasia

That's Don Bluth to you. The director who's made mature and darker animated movies for kids. Well until Rock-a-Doodle...

Yeah? Sullivan gonna kill you.

Probably buried or cremated the bodies and remember that Justin said they were going to leave no evidence behind of their existence, so I doubt they’d have left all that lying about as well. Still definitely would’ve been a chuckle if after the credits roll we got a scene cut to the farmer discovering a tiny yet surprisingly intricate series of pulleys and ropes like you’d mentioned.

Nicodemus clearly trusted Justin in that regard. Jenner has been plotting to kill Nicodemus even before the film started.

@@phillipwalling7470and what makes you hate Jenner for that even more is that the book says that before the rats were captured by NIMH, Nicodemus and Jenner were friends. Jenner is a true backstabber.

That is correct, sir, and Jenner is Scar of The Secret of NIMH.

@@willrobinson3662 interestingly enough, when one person on KZfaq did a movie spoof of the lion king on KZfaq, Jenner played Scar!

Fievel Mousekewitz is Young Simba