John might be the smartest living philosopher that I have ever encountered. I am really grateful that I found him 🙂.

Carl Gustav Jung was trying to turn of his inferential western machinery part of his mind during his red book experiment and documented his later analysis of the eastern esoteric and western hermeticism in the black books as a prism through which to be a better therapist because in order to help guide patients in their confrontations with the unconscious he knew he must look deeply within his own unconscious and glean insights from the collective. The ultimate relevance realization .

What is lovely about John V is that he gives freely. There aren't many if any adds. He seems a genuine, decent man who wants to help his fellow men and they in turn help him . N

Wonderful conversation. Thank you John and Jules. Doing the practices is very important.

It's good that the scientists are catching up with humanistic psychology. It'll be interesting to see what happens next.

Changing your perspective to overcome ego-centrism and thereby assume a new identity is exactly how the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous works.

Thanks David, Jules and John!

many thanks for such an inspiring talk. john is always stimulating and an inspiration :-}

This was fantastic. thank you so much. If it isn't too much of an imposition, might I pester you to put the literature mentioned throughout the discussion into a mini bibliography? If you can't do so for lack of time, that is completely understandable. Will try to order a copy of Hadot's work and make an attempt to get a hold on the Daily Stoic guide.

It would be help to me (and others?) if a podcast dictionary was published with these expose's!

Hello, l use that very 'overview all the time and have for many years, l call it vicarious imagination, or' the objective view', very useful in art and the practises of life. It is true that it becomes not only a way of contemplative thinking on certain particulars but also the very way one participates and exists within everyday. All the best, and thank you for your programmes. William gilchrist. .

To me this sounds like a way of transforming towards mental health. ❤️ I may not know Socrates but I know John V.

It seems intuitive that a move away from the distraction of self is a move toward objectivity to inhabit wisdom. However, often the Eastern principals require extreme detachment from society and inner self in the hope of finding the least resistant "nothing objectivity". The overwhelming theme within many religions espouses the self-path toward "objectivity". What is stunningly different is the message of Yeshua Hamashiach in which the highest actions (love the one God and love each other) seem to appeal to outward focus not inward focus. Focus on service to others creates the meaning and the wisdom. Experience with other people is the relational connection to wisdom. The development of the Church (similar to the functionality of an ant community who's collective wisdom becomes evident above any singular wisdom. It is exactly opposite of the philosophical "self-path". What intellectuals talk about, the salt of the earth do in living practice. The correlation between self-help, self-path, self-discovery....all paths lead to meaningless nihilism. Food for thought.

This was incredibly insightful. Thank you.

I find it fascinating that within and during the meaning crisis of the Hellenistic movement we see the emergence of Jesus as the Logos and the impact of that incredible timing.

Asceticism in the Eastern Orthodox Christian tradition has nothing to do with self-denial or punishment of the flesh as it might be understood in the western branch of Christianity. It is exactly what the word implies, well in Greek at least, namely, exercise or practicing techniques to partake in the uncreated energies of the Triune God. The word 'ἄσκησις' (askesis) in Greek is literally the exact same word with the exact same meaning used for both monks on Mount Athos practicing and the professional athletes. So the meaning has not changed, but it is used by varying people for different end goals. In the Eastern Orthodox context for the monks, it is used to attain spiritual transcendence through grace and it practically involves constant mental exercises (i.e askesis) and physical exercises (prostrations, etc). If anyone is interested in delving a little deeper into these kinds of topics look into the Philokalia, a compilation of writings by monks of Mount Athos. It is quite heavy and might even seem like far east Buddhist etc practices, but it is deeply rooted in Christianity and its mysteries.

Fascinating ! I had studied Pierre Hadot too ! That's why the point of view of Vaerveke is so deep and original. I would like that he, one day write a book on how to achieve personal wisdom.

Beautiful, thank you!

It’s true. If you search for ‘Wisdom’ in Anglo-American philosophy published from 1940-1985, it is almost totally absent.

we need better microphones. man is wearing headphones... the vocal pitch variations... is lethal

“You should be scaling down and scaling up attention. Know how to break frame in meditation and make an alternative frame in contemplation.” John Vervaeke “Live baby live Now that the day is over I got a new sensation In perfect moments” INXS - 1987*

Seems to me the “wisdom of the crowd,” “distributed cognition,” etc., in pursuit of “wisdom” presupposes and requires a prior mastery of the habits by which you gain access to the “meta-rationality” that simultaneously reorganizes and culls “old wisdom,” offers “new wisdom”, and a perspective that intelligently integrates it all. Again, it seems a group cannot achieve together what individual personal habits do not yet support. This seems the root of all failed communities: the failure of individuation before congregation.

you described how you read the simplicity of vision and that started a journey of Neoplatonism and you saw some of the original practices of Christianity that were lost. What were they and how can I look into that topic more?

Wow! Thank you!

Thank you!

There's an excellent book on this subject by Michel Foucault - The Hermeneutics of the Subject. I discovered Hadot thanks to this book.

gratitude love thank you for this

I would really like to hear his understanding of Nietzsche’s critique of Socrates as a figure who intellectualizes everything and seeks to “correct existence”, on the basis of Ideals, at every turn.

for wisdom you go to comment section.

I could be mistaken in any of this, but it seems to me to be a possible overgeneralization to label those (or even most of - or possibly even any of those those) who claim to be "spiritual, but not religious" as necessarily all meaning the same thing in saying that. What any one person or more happen(s) to mean by that could be more or less different from what one or more, or even all of the various other person(s) who make that same claim happen(s) to instead mean(s) by that. It seems to me that there might be a crisis (though not necessarily of meaning, but possibly of only agreed upon meaning - or even of agreed upon supposed meaning, instead) in that what may be taken (or not taken) as having any particular meaning is both potentially taken as not having that same meaning by one or more individuals - but while also being taken as having that same meaning by one or more other individuals. If I or (if I +) take something as meaning (A) , while you (or you+) do not also take that same thing as having that same meaning, then what - if anything - is the actual meaning of that same thing? Even if all took any same thing as having the same meaning, would that meaning then necessarily also be, in any way, the inherent meaning of that thing?

Quality, consciousness, cogitation, cognition; parse carefully.

"He wants to be Moses and I want to be Socrates. That's the difference between us" 59:30. As Tertullian would say "What does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?"

programmers call this perspectival knowing as "rubber duck decoding"

I'm quite familiar with Hadot and this was very good. One correction, though....Hadot lived from 1922 to 2010. That is all.

I can definitely see how some of these practices and techniques could be therapeutic, but I can also see how sociopaths and others who seek to manipulate human beings might become expert at them as well. I don’t think these are automatically linked to wisdom.

I find it interesting that you've replaced the cynic with the skeptic. I don't think Alexander would rather be a skeptic. Popular culture first occludes the cynic, then kills him.

Bought the book. It was a need not a want, lol.

Distributed cognition = interdependence?

Thank you! I love you people! Hey John, what about the rigorous Tibetan Buddhist practices of debate and intellectual discourse on Abhidharma as practiced for the Geshe/Geshema dialectical examinations??? There is intellectual rigor in Buddhism, it’s just in a slightly different form and propagated more widely when traditions stepped out of oral, recitation basis and into written commentary.

What are the tattoos on his arm?

Using "Sensible" thinking for most day to day decisions is a step towards "Wisdom". We are babies in regard to Wisdom, our set point is Fear, fear such as non-acceptance, fear of death, fear of one another. Till we can go about living "Sensibly" , making decisions on our own life, or decisions as parents and departments of Governance. Till we have a handle on "Sensible" living a life of Wisdom is a far distant step. We don't have hindsight, this too would be a useful tool for us humans. To ask the Truth of any situation. To be open to all possibilities. Can help us towards living with Wisdom. Thank you one and all. Peace💚💛❤

Don’t know much abt Mr. Vervaeke but I would like to know if he has a religion and if so what religion does he practice? Thanks

What happens when you mix John Vervaeke with Pierre Hadot? John Headaeke.

Silence and Stillness os all one needs to realize the dimension of the Real.

Zizek talks about this shift of perspective in the beginning of his book Parallax View. It is a concept that has helped me stay alive during the early period of the Dark Night of the Soul.

Just read early Wittgenstein.

This qualifies as a film?

How can we save the natural world, and human life?

👍

where does your Jungian work still influence you are you still noticing your dreams or have you stopped dreamjournaling ❓

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1:19:00 describes his ecology of practices

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Words are fine, but where are practices, we need "do this" to achieve this effect approvach

13:15 the point of doing that is inducing a mental condition called depersonalization

This appears to be a potentially efficacious means to a greater emotional resilience, hardiness or anti-fragility. However, it may not promote greater emotional maturity by itself since it does not appear to equally promote emotional empathy, the other trunk of emotional maturity. Clearly, the presenter is an enthusiast for a “method” that seems to work for him, but the mental health “crises” is about more than assuaging our collective anxiety (inchoate fear). We are disabled by lies, alt realities, conspiracy theories, in short, a real absence of personal character, understanding of our biases, interest in personal change, rather than the “blame game,” i.e., people of one side see the problems of the other, but not necessarily their own. The presenter is an academic, so is naturally led to cognitive answers, not necessarily to emotional problems or answers. We human beings are made of both thoughts and feelings, problematic if we focus on one aspect of our being to the exclusion of the other!

Ding, ding! :-)

Superb as always, John embodies his knowledge and wisdom so well

After several vews. Just WOW.

If you're bored, you're not paying attention.

If we've lost it for historical reasons then ignoring those reasons won't help regain wisdom. There are two places for wisdom; the fullest perspective that sees mutual respect in all its articulations, and in each of us by dharma.

Gurdjieff anyone?

The first proclamation from *canadian* cognitive science should be to remove lobbyists from Ottawa.

you hear that mommy... im not crazy at all 😏 ty john

Overcoming self deception by communion.

And how does this enhance or enrich anyone's life TODAY ?

We're not using theatre correctly.

Send view

If your philosophy teachers taught you that Socrates was just about arguments, they were confusing him with the Sophists. Anyway, not all philosophy teachers are that slipshod. The first questions Socrates posed , 'What is the good for man?' 'What is a good life?' 'What constutes arete?' are primarily wisdom questions.

yip

Science is way behind…this type of thinking is frowned upon.

Spiritually enabled science provides the Net Joy Integral: all other things being equal, does a particular act increase or decrease net universal joy. Joy is more complicated than pleasure. Universal cuz science.

Socarates is prob a guy plato made up for his book.

Every time the Pope cracks down he amplifies the meaning crisis; wisdom doesn't "crack down". Right?

My suggestion is that you start using A Course In Miracles. Came from Columbia University School of Medicine, is spiritual and offers exercises.

This guy clearly hasn't read Nagarjuna

quantum physics, holographic models seem to bring a more wholistic model to our reality.....

First time I have disliked a KZfaq video! So much thinking and so little applied wisdom. Perhaps that is philosophy?

Haven’t forgotten you did Bret Weinstein dirty…

This looks like chasing rainbows to me. It's just that Vervaeke is chasing the rainbows more deeply than others. It's better to ask why you are chasing rainbows. Why be dependent on anything psychological, spiritual, or philosophical?

Agnostic; just say it! So it has "gnostic" in it; big deal! My mom was a self proclaimed agnostic: we should all be agnostic, then the gnostics pop up... for a week and then back to agnostic again; good shit.

Only the cynic would suggest a general strike AND ecological focus. ... I suggest a general strike with a perpetual ecological focus.

Over educated ppl

Don’t look within to find your way/purpose-look to Him who laid down His life for the sheep Acts 17:28 [28] for “‘In Jesus we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

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