John Winchester: A detailed look

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3 жыл бұрын

Email me at BobbertWess@gmail.com !
Check out my ko-fi page at ko-fi.com/bobwess ! (You can get a preview of the Destiel Deep Dive Title Cards all the way through the 16th video!)
Thanks guys!

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@artangel23 3 жыл бұрын

"Dean defined his entire personality around what would make his dad happy." This sentence reminded me of so many instances in the show where Dean's intelligence outshone Sammy's, and his love for dorky (and very osbcure) trivia and information. He's literally a walking encyclopedia of media references, history, music and a master strategist. He also knows how to cook, clean, change diapers, soothe infants, nurse, suture and has above average medical knowledge. All this without mentioning the obvious mechanic knowledge, which is master level too. Dude rebuilt a muscle car entirely on his own. Repeatedly. If he had stayed in school, he likely would have been just as accomplished as Sam, perhaps in another field, because the truth is they were BOTH just as smart. But he downplayed his intelligence bc he knew his father frowned upon them leaving the life. He had to be an obedient grunt, and nothing more, even though he's actually brilliant. For fucks sake, he's read SEVERAL Vonnegut books.

@Ragdoll161 2 жыл бұрын

Deans dorky moments were adorable and made me so happy The scene where he got so excited because he got his own room? It was so sad, yet heartwarming

@Jeremysepicreads 2 жыл бұрын

I disagree, Dean was his own person outside of his father

@blueskeletonking2701 Жыл бұрын

that reminds me of the "You can't escape me Dean!" scene. that quote about how he does everything to make his did happy

@-UnknownHero Жыл бұрын

Damn... I realized Dean is intelligent but not how intelligent and that it is due to trying to appeal to his father. I think you are spot on. Just wondering whether that was intentional or not

@DefaultName-du3kr 3 ай бұрын

@@Ragdoll161 That scene of them getting their own rooms for me. My parents weren't abusive or anything like that but I lived most of my life in a one bedroom apartment and I always slept near or with my brother. We eventually got our own rooms/houses as adults and we both needed some time to get used to the space.

@RenTheBarbarian 3 жыл бұрын

Someone on Tumblr raised an interesting point the other day. The reason that John liked Sam more than Dean (even though Dean was “the good son”) is because in theory, John wanted a strong, independent son who was willing to stand up to him. And that was Sam; Sam struck out on his own to go to college and made it clear that he didn’t wanna be a hunter. Dean, on the other hand, was raised by John to follow every command to the letter, to never question an order, to be the good little soldier. Dean never had a chance because John literally raised Dean to be something he hated.

@sophiainthebuilding 3 жыл бұрын

I didn't think it was possible for me to hate John more than I do, but you just proved me wrong. I definitely hate John more now lmao.

@artangel23 3 жыл бұрын

I just read that analysis and it's brilliant. couldn't have said it better myself. John, a very hard, rough guy who prob hated (and feared) vulnerability, hated how obedient Dean was bc it required Dean being submissive, a trait he despised. Yet, he needed Dean to obey, without question. Dean was fucked from the start.

@mimimurlough 3 жыл бұрын

It might be taking him for granted as well. It's all too common to forget about the kids that never make a fuss

@AtomicVertigo_Comics 3 жыл бұрын

@@mimimurlough oof i have personal experience with what u just said

@marymartindale884 2 жыл бұрын

Plus if Dean didn't listen to John he would make him leave Sam, a fact that is stated in season 14. I think that is ultimately the main reason Dean didn't stand up to John very much.

@me.backwards 3 жыл бұрын

When you said that John sees Mary every time he looks at Dean... oh boy, that hit.

@thewalkingcat5542 3 жыл бұрын

There are so many more hints. Dean facing himself during the dream episode ("dads blunt little instrument"), Dean's speech to Mary when he tries to get her out of the control of the British Men of Letters ("I had to be a father, I had to be a mother", "Dad was just a shell"), "Hunters are never kids. I never was.". And best of all: Bobby is the one who welcomes Dean in heaven!

@tiffanypersaud3518 2 жыл бұрын

Yes!

@theoddone6213 3 жыл бұрын

I think John didn't drop Sam & Dean off at Bobby's because he knew that Bobby would prove to be a better father than him, & his ego couldn't handle that. The fact that he abandoned his kids for weeks on end & expected Dean, a kid himself, to be able to provide emotionally & financially for the both of them, I'm sorry, but John is a piece of shit. Not to mention the dangers that could have befallen his two children while he was away, unable to protect them.

@mffmoniz2948 3 жыл бұрын

I had forgotten that dick move of not even calling or letting them know he's still alive even when Dean is almost dying. What a great dad. He never treated the kids right. He really fucked up Dean.

@archidasgupta453 2 жыл бұрын

Being a parent is not about biology, Bobby was more of a father to the boys than John Winchester himself. I have no idea why there is an interest in the untold story of John and Mary Winchester either.

@tiffanypersaud3518 Ай бұрын

Yeh I wasn’t interested either.

@shasommer 2 жыл бұрын

John Winchester’s A+ parenting

@Syrieana 3 жыл бұрын

As someone who was the younger and favoured sibling to an abusive and borderline psychopathic father I can empathize with Sam trying to speak up against John. Sam is an observant kid, he knew that John was treating Dean like shit and I think he eventually grew tired of it and tried to bait John into fighting with him instead of focusing his wrath on Dean. Let's not forget that Sam never knew John as kind or loving (ugh) before Mary died, he only knows John when he's obsessed with revenge. I often tried to draw my father's fire away from my older brother because I knew that my father would go much lighter on me then him. Towards me my father was very much more gaslighty, manipulative and burdened me with fulfilling my mother's role after they divorced. My brother got the brunt though, verbal abuse, degradation and as much chores as possible. My father's excuse was his heart disease and how he was gonna die soon anyways - which is painfully close to John always threatened by getting mauled and killed. Everyone around us told us to spent as much time with him as we can "before he's gone" He's 55 years old now and in perfect shape as far as I know. We both broke contact with him, it's been over 4 years since I last spoke with him about taxes of all things.

@clarawho3200 3 ай бұрын

Hope you and your brother have a good life❤

@dylancole1910 3 жыл бұрын

I agree with this whole analysis, and, I also think it takes immense courage to be able to openly talk about that shit online, especially how you related it with this whole John situation. Trauma sucks, and I've got a whole 15 years worth of it myself, so kudos to you for being able to make this video.

@setofreakinkaiba8553 Жыл бұрын

My theory is that everyone saying Sam was loved is kinda wrong. John probably saw Sam as a monster even telling Dean to kill him if he got out of hand. John's need for Sam to stay with them was his fear of Sam becoming a monster. He had an intense need to control Sam and he had a selfish need to make Dean think like him so he could ultimately kill Sam. This man was not abusive to just one son but to both of them. Sam didnt have it better than Dean. The abuse was just different. Even people hating Adam for having a better life miss the point where Adam said John was a stranger to him that only visited once a year after many years of him not knowing his dad.

@SmallWorldFilms 3 жыл бұрын

I’ve been thinking the same thing. Sure, John loved Mary, but once she died Dean and Sam should have been his first priorities, not his last. This aspect of the show is hard for me because my father - and to a lesser extent, my mother - were also abusive. That kind of upbringing can have a lifelong impact.

@amberbrosius7676 3 жыл бұрын

This was one of the reasons Season 3's Dream a Little Dream of Me hit hard for me. We see Dean confront himself about how basically everything he loves, everything he is was because of John. That 'Dream Dean' calling him out on not having an original thought of his own. Oh, he did. He had plenty. But like you said, he kept all of that buried because if he wasn't the cookie-cutter image he thought his father wanted him to be, then he was failing. Like the reference to 'Daddy's blunt little instrument' spoken by Dream Dean and then again by Cass in 15x18. I was absolutely heartbroken and yet proud of Dean when he finally lost it on his dream self and unloaded all of this rage and fear on 'himself' about how John failed them, how he was obsessed and how he (Dean) didn't deserve to go to Hell.

@tiffanypersaud3518 Ай бұрын

“This is what you’re going to become.” Such a great episode and such good callbacks.

@melrey2645 2 жыл бұрын

I think the reason he showed up when they went to Lawrence was that Dean told him he had a lead on Mary's death. He didn't come to support his boys, which was obvious given that he refused to even see them.

@deanwasalwaysbi8283 3 жыл бұрын

The noise you made at 14:19 is everything.

@KaylaChan90 3 жыл бұрын

It genuinely breaks my heart anytime I see someone claim "John was great" or "John did what he could", it's bull, Mary wasn't perfect, hell neither was Bobby, but in the sense of how they are both human. John was one of the biggest monsters in the show. It's why two of my favorite Dean lines concerning himself, are one from this episode, "I have a family", and then in 15x19, where yes he is talking to Chuck, but also I can't help him saying "That's not who I am." as also a sign of him decoding himself from what John taught him as well. (Ignoring the network fuckery that erased that one episode later, but I digress)

@zhulimoon46 3 жыл бұрын

ALSO QUOTING CASS WHEN SAYING "THAT IS NOT WHO I AM" BC CASS LITERALLY JUST TOLD DEAN HE IS MORE THAN THE GOOD SOLDIER. UGHHHHH

@icoleman150 3 жыл бұрын

I honestly don’t get this whole John did what he could. He had no business raising a dog let alone children.

@rahaa.sh_307 2 жыл бұрын

Please please please don't put Mary & Bobby in the same page. Bobby had literally no flaw except for his whole reckless attitude about blood-junkie Sam. Mary on the other hand, was a hunter & didn't bother to think properly & realize letting demon into a house will surely have a horrible result & then even forget her deal which made the brothers' life literally miserable. In her coming back when she had a 2nd chance to be a mother she acted in the most selfish way ever & left them, when she came back to ask for their help in a mission she almost got Cas -the only real family of the brothers at that time- killed in the process & didn't even bother to apologise for it, in the apocalypse world there was no emotion in her face while she found out one of her sons is dead & the other one burst into tears in front of her while Cas & Jack were so broken. Again in s 14 *Cas* was the one worried about Dean being missing & Sam's feelings about it while Mary was drinking beer with her new love interest. All she did about the Malek box was asking Dean to tell Sam, not a word to comfort or disssuade him. She was a typical neglective parent & had nothing in common with Bobby who gave all his love to the boys. Literally none.

@ZephyrBW 2 жыл бұрын

Remember the reunion with the family dinner? Total bullshit episode one of the things I hated about the supernatural series ending was how Sam and Dean just let what that monster do to them go so easy, honestly I prefer the Lucifer family dinner with Lucifer, Amenadeal, Michael, Linda & God are all together and Lucifer just has the balls to get everyone to be honest about how they feel with the neglectful abuse for eons they had. And what we got out of it was so much better because, everybody just put it out there and the questions they were scared of asking for answered.

@KaylaChan90 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZephyrBW What ARE you on about.... I am one who genuinely believes if you watched Lebanon and took Dean saying he has a family as a positive thing about John, when that family consists of the man he loves and their son, go rewatch. Also different shows do different things, don't try to compare but because name share.

@cynthiaholmes5124 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah you are right because of the way john raised dean he always had this self hatred and self doubt for himself it's not till castiel tells him that he loves him and shows him what he really is and that the choices he made was so for love

@annexsis5181 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I dont consider myself a destiel shipper and I see then as friends but romantic or not cas definitely told dean what he needed to hear to get better so thank you castiel I'm glad your not in the empty anymore (even though it would have been nice to see you in the final episode)

@deadpooldan9862 9 ай бұрын

I think the self hatred for himself came after Hell, so I don’t think John put that there, just everything Dean did in Hell put that there

@tiffanypersaud3518 Ай бұрын

Cas was right. I was screaming internally at Dean, “Dean!!! Listen to Cas!” And in a way, he did. Dean didn’t kill Chuck and he told Chuck, “That’s not who I am.”

@Maya-hi6ce 2 жыл бұрын

My hot take is that people would be more on the same page about how abusive John clearly is had he not been played by JDM. At least people who came to the show later. People just know him and like him and projected some of that onto the character. Thank you for being so willing to open up on your experiences and understanding of this relationship and in particular your perspective of Lebanon. I hadn't thought of it this way when I'd first watched it but slowly came around later to this point and think it's the only way it makes sense to me. If they'd wanted to bring back John permanently the characters would have needed a confrontation in order to move past their trauma but since he didn't, this was a more appropriate bookend that allowed them to find a little peace. ... but also dad Bobby supremacy

@yenh1144 2 жыл бұрын

I haven’t really thought about this until I watched this review. I recently got into supernatural, during the pandemic in 2020 when I was desperately needing a sense of “family comfort” especially because of Dean and Sam’s relationship. I’ve come to realize that my siblings and I all cling to each other, probably due to the dysfunctional childhood we had. My mom is similar to John and I recently realized that I ended up in social work as a way to feel important, to be able to turn my traumatic experiences into an instrument to help others which now I have come to hate. It sucks when you build a life/career based on the trauma you had vs good experiences or wants.

@AC-ri2ph 3 жыл бұрын

4:20 that right there. They are happy bc it’s one meal. I can hang with my dad for a gamenight with the family abd then i leave town the next day. you explained it perfectly

@annexsis5181 2 жыл бұрын

dean as mary’s surrogate there are loads of parallels made between dean and mary in early season spn and late season spn. in season 12 dean directly calls himself sam’s mother, but even earlier than that we see him doing the cooking and child rearing. compare that to all the parallels made between sam and john (both of them losing their blonde woman significant others in a ceiling fire) and it’s clear that dean was meant to more resemble mary. it’s not a stretch to say that if we can see it as viewers this is how john saw it in his actual life. i do think john loves dean for being dean but he loves him more for being mary.

@WildeMermaid 3 жыл бұрын

I agree with everything you said including about the episode Lebanon. You are absolutely correct about the trauma responses from Dean. . . Though as you said us with trauma recognize it for what it is while others may miss that.

@mysticmajestic2360 Жыл бұрын

Can I just add that for season 2 episode 1, until Sam screams at John that Dean's dying and essentially that all other plans that don't revolve around saving Dean are awful and terrible, John's taken aback for the first time. It's like he didn't even consider that. Like his thought process was "Oh, it's Dean, you know how he is: he'll pull through. Don't even worry about it" until Sam verbally clocked him with a reality check.

@jeanpilgrim3864 3 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate your opinion on the episode and John's whole character! So interesting to listen to, and thinking about it, I agree with you on a lot of the points you brought up. I still have my issues with the episode, the most important one being that I don't think this is what most people will see in it. In my experience, a lot of people who have watched the show don't see a whole lot of things wrong with the way John behaved and raised his sons, and the episode plays right into that narrative for them.

@glygriffe 3 жыл бұрын

I see a lot of things that are wrong with the way John Winchester behaved and raised his sons, but I don't hate him for that. Broken people tend to break stuff and lash at people around them. I don't think saying that is an excuse for John's (or Dean's) behavior. A big part of what makes the brothers so interesting characters is all the trauma they went thru. Horrible to say, but still true from an entertaining/TV show point of view. So, Supernatural would have been a very different show without John's actions, probably less viscerally engaging. I personally don't like Lebanon all that much. If that can reassure you in some way! It just felt off to me, even with the great performances of the actors. I surely did not see all the subtility and subtext that Bob pointed out in this video.

@mimimurlough 3 жыл бұрын

This is a great, thoughtful video. I kinda miss the reflections on the brothers' childhood from the eariler seasons. It feels like the theme of fucked up parenting got lost in the end, but that might just be my own visceral reaction to Jack and Dean repeating the Sam and John dynamic without comment

@khyati7733 3 жыл бұрын

Ooo i didn't notice that!

@tiffanypersaud3518 Ай бұрын

Dang… you’re right, it is a parallel. Dean hated Jack because Jack was kind of the reason Cas died (that time). And John hated his own sons because they were kind of the reason Mary died.

@stillinhere 3 жыл бұрын

I always saw him through a hard abuse lens, too. I relate to Sam, though, from start to finish. I struggled with Lebanon, even though it's been decades since my parents died. I only took in how Sam wanted to be anywhere in the world but the same room as John as John tries to apologize. Sam had put John in the past. It was a done deal. Now, he has to actually interact with the man, not the memory, and Jared portrayed the instinctual evasiveness well. But your perspective here helps me confront why Lebanon is blaring cognitive dissonance from start to finish. Thanks for that.

@distudio13 3 жыл бұрын

We are pretty much on the same page with all of this. It really seems like some people do not remember just how complex, the early seasons of this show really were. Honestly, there were so many details leading to the absent parent trope, and to see the last episode basically drop that entirely frustrates me to no end. I still don't know if I would add Lebanon to a top 10 list for myself, simply because I don't think the filming of the episode helped the actors at all. However, I do acknowledge it could have turned out way worse. When I first found out it was happening, I was so nervous they would turn it into a john forgiveness episode, but they did make the right decisions for what they wanted to do.

@gRm444 3 жыл бұрын

My dad left when I was about 4, so this video and storyline on spn really resonates with me. I can say from personal experience that meeting my dad for lunch only like 2 years after he left was awkward and felt forced. He kept making jokes trying to relate but it was too fresh and too long ago at the same time for it to feel comfortable. However (and now looking back on this I cringe a little) my mom invited him to my sister's 8th-grade graduation, which was something like 7 years later and I ran to him. Although I couldn't imagine reacting the same way given what I know about him now, I still remember that memory first when I think of him (and then all the trauma but hey lmao). I know people give the writers a lot of shit for this episode being unrealistic, but I definitely agree with your analysis dude. Keep up the dope videos -a bi spn stan w/ daddy issues

@kumaken 3 жыл бұрын

This episode Re-contextualised the first couple seasons for me, because everything John does in his last 2-3 years he justifies in his head with “it turns out good, it works, it’s worth it, it has to be this way” type thinking. I love the episode, but when I rewatch the show with my friend I’m gonna see John in a very different light, (it’s my friend’s first time going through the show.) I do not defend John, I believe he loved the boys, but he viewed them and used them as tools, there is more I want to say, but I am terrible at talking only in text, so I can’t express it very well, I’m better when I can talk and am visible. Edit: I changed “it” to “the show”

@georgiastone3025 2 жыл бұрын

My dad reminds me of John tbh - I'm the older sibling so i take all the crap for my younger sibling, and i get no credit - nor do i expect it - and honestly i could say that he has never indicated that he has ever liked me in any way - so Dean is a comfort character for me in many ways i suppose

@ashlynnhill9131 2 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry,I get this

@georgiastone3025 2 жыл бұрын

@@ashlynnhill9131 ah its alright - i hope you're doing okay :)

@ophelien4579 3 жыл бұрын

First of all, at 2:33 that was somehow marvelously put. That's exactly it, and I didn't expect to get hit by a wave of "oh. oh shit that's. yeah that's. damn why are my eyes sweating". Second of all, this entire video is on point, I absolutely agree, I've watched Lebanon several times now, and it never fails to make me ball my eyes out. Even if John's abusive attitude throughout the show (and the brothers' reaction to it in every clip we see of them remembering/interacting with him) is honestly sometimes hard to watch because of how accurately portrayed it is, that episode is as you said, a masterpiece. I mostly relate to Dean in those moments, having been the "mediator" or "peacemaker" in my family for most of my life, and just all around having had similar responses to abuse (his reactions to how John ordered him around are way too relatable to be honest), but again I absolutely relate to what you said about Sam and John's conversation in Lebanon: it hits home too. They've both been through different kinds of trauma with their dad, but since in that scene the outlines of said trauma are actually quite blurred ("you did some messed up things" can really work for just about any abuse (not sure if that's a weird way to put it but I hope my point makes sense)) it doesn't feel like I'm somehow relating to Sam's experience more than Dean's. That episode is a piece of closure, and it's nice to see them get at least that, just one dinner where they can put a bandaid on an old wound. I also absolutely agree, if John had stayed any longer than he did, that bandaid would've been ripped off and the wound reopened. I feel like I'm repeating myself but, in short: *I absolutely agree with everything you said.*

@demongirl096 Жыл бұрын

Recently I started watching for the second time, and whenever I see a flashback I imagine a young 6-7 year old dean in a motel room alone taking care of a 2-3 year old toddler Sam. Maybe even a 4-5 year old dean taking care of Sam a literal baby for long days alone. Dean was barely a child when Mary died, and had to take care of Sam.

@AdiTwriteon 2 жыл бұрын

Well I need to go talk to my therapist now. I knew I avoided this video for a reason. Thanks for the breakdown anyway. I appreciate how much it probably affected you to dig up your own trauma.

@catherinerheault4771 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe I have a bit of a soft spot for John because I like JDM so much LOL. I always felt however , John had great regret about being a neglectful parent and putting everything on Deans shoulders, as evidenced in his words to Dean right before he died. It seems he also tried to raise Adam different than Sam and Dean in terms of not becoming a hunter and having that life. I think John would have been a good Dad if he hadn't become obsessed with getting revenge on the demon that killed Mary. I also think John giving his life for Dean and suffering a century of torture has to count for something.

@BobWessSPN 2 жыл бұрын

I absolutely agree! (And I LOVE Jeffrey Dean Morgan so much.) He would have been a good dad under different circumstances. He was incredibly regretful. And it does count for something that he gave himself up for Dean's life instead of shooting Azazel and getting his revenge right away. And he absolutely did love them. It just doesn't erase, change, or lessen the years of neglect/abuse.

@lovelybydecay7811 3 жыл бұрын

i read this one as similar to the shifter therapist one-- it's a mirage that helps them move on. and re: personal therapy sesh-- cough cough same. just. same.

@Dr_Imago 3 жыл бұрын

Gosh! I've been watching this for ENTERTAINMENT not for crying out my eyeballs, because I've been raised by an abusive father... well not literally abusive. He was and still is a manipulative highly intelligent bastard. That was one of reasons I started watching the show at the beginning. That the reason I spend a lot of money for psychotherapy nowadays. Anyway... Bob Wess thank you for this video.

@castielwinchester6222 3 жыл бұрын

I never thought i would hate john more than i do.. This video was really hard to watch 💔 dean should have said "i hate you" when john said he is proud of him 💔.. I am sorry you have faced the same trauma as the boys... I hope everything will turn out the way you wanted 💚💙🌈

@mizixy9624 2 жыл бұрын

I love this video. My dad and I often got into arguments regarding John and his relationships to the boys. Actually, I stopped watching the show halfway through a season and never picked it back up. Your videos on this show, your passion for it, make me want to start back up again.

@jasonprice5281 3 жыл бұрын

I don't know why I chose Father's Day of all days to watch this ..But I'm glad I did...It's kinda cool knowing that somebody else feels like I do about John Winchester...My dad's name was John so I suppose I take something from that show that others probably don't...I truly appreciate you posting this...And I can tell it was hard for you

@debras.rodriguez6025 10 күн бұрын

I think Dean shouldered so much of the responsibility that gave Sam the freedom to think for himself and to act of his own accord. I was a child born and raised into abuse of every variety. I have moderate to severe CPTSD. I didn't learn this until.much later in life. It's beyond sad to say that I raised my daughter through my trauma. I've apologized and recognized the damage I've done. She forgiven me, saying that she knows now it wasn't me. She met my mom and knows all that mess. She never met my dad, thankfully. I believe John raised his kids in, through, and from their trauma. And it truly truly sucks it had to happen. I do know the boys were second place to his revenge plot. The fact that John loved his sons and wanted them protected gets drowned in his hunt. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. 😂

@clairec1660 3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate this video so much! Wow, you really hit some things that I'd had trouble teasing out. I bawled my way through Lebanon the first time, then got mad about it, then little pieces jump out at me, and I was left with a big ?????? But your point about how it's *so little time* to really have it out and it wouldn't have lasted. The very best you can have is a little closure and a moment to live in the fantasy of how it could have been, if only, if only things were different. Sam's talk with him - powerful. And Dean saying "I have a family" is something I think about on a regular basis. (Yes, the body language and microexpressions, whew!) They ended up through the whole show, with all those years and different writers, portraying those relationships so much closer to life than tv often gets, how really truly complicated it is to love a parent who is like this. I had started thinking they glossed over it in the end, but you're right, they actually didn't.

@beatrizrodz1559 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this. Thank you for sharing this. Must’ve been very hard for you. I can’t even imagine.

@alexdsimpson 2 жыл бұрын

your comparison between ppl who see harsh love as still love, with the example about parents being scared when kids ran out into traffic, just YES. I had two families growing up. A very abusive one and a loving one and I had that exact example in my life. The ONE time I got "spanked" by my loving stepfather was when I ignored a rule that could've gotten me killed (almost falling into a swift running canal). It was perfunctory and over quickly and came with a stern talking to about why. It wasn't painful, it was a warning, and I knew I'd done wrong. I still knew I was loved. but the other family was a mess of emotional and mental abuse with repercussions I still struggle with more than 30 yrs later. On the outside, it looked the same. I "misbehaved" and I was punished. But that doesn't include the part where the punishment exceeded the "crime" if there even was a "crime" at all, or because a sibling misbehaved but they were the favorite so I had to take the blame, etc etc. The context fucking matters and John Winchester was fucking abusive.

@dianamijde5543 3 жыл бұрын

wow that was hard to watch.You really hit the nail on the head with your deconstruction of why i hated John so much. would love to see a video like this one of dean, i always related to dean so much, older brother,had to protect his younger brother from a abusive dad,feels the weight of the world is on his shoulders.

@annexsis5181 3 жыл бұрын

this video gave me a new appreciation for that episode when i first watched it i thought "why not bring back bobby he was waaay better then john" but now i see why you liked this episode i kinda wannna rewatch it with this new information and see how i feel afterwards

@thevacuumofcomments2946 2 жыл бұрын

This is a great video. I don't have your background. I haven't the first idea of what it was like. I've never thought my parents resembled John (tho I have related to Sam). In some ways, I kinda take John at his word. When Mary died he saw evil everywhere. And he was right, there are cases all over America and we found out Sam was surrounded by demons when he went to college. That's why John never dropped them off with Bobby and let them have a normal life. If his kids weren't soldiers, they would have left them at the mercy of the supernatural. My memory is that a lot of Johns's manipulative, secret-keeping in the first 2 seasons came from him knowing what Sam and Dean were gonna be dealing with in the future, Demon blood Sam, Lucifer, the appocalypse etc and not wanting to burden them with that. But when he dies he has no choice (from his perspective) to tell Dean he might have to kill Sam cause its him vs the world. (Tho maybe they would have been better prepared if he had just laid everything out for them.) Obviously, none of this is an excuse. A drill sergeant is not a parent and children are not soldiers. He could have protected them, taught them how to protect themselves, and not gone after Azazel. That way he wouldn't have had to leave Dean to raise sam. This is what I hoped Sam did with his kid and that's why he has the tattoo. Because there is no way Sam Winchester would raise his kid to become a hunter.

@melrey2645 2 жыл бұрын

I have 2 older brothers. It is no secret that I love the middle one more than the oldest. Our father was abusive. The oldest was the obedient one, the "good child", and to be honest he sees the world a little to much like my dad for my comfort. The middle one is my hero. He protected me, often stepping in between my dad and I and cussing my dad out until my dad was angrier at him than he was at me. I adore him. He was rebellious, a trait I share, and he always made time for me, even when my parents told him to stop being a " bad influence "

@zhulimoon46 3 жыл бұрын

"Lebanon" was great to me, too. I think everyone is deserving of forgiveness. Not John, not in Lebanon. But someday, in heaven, after they talk it out and have a decent relationship you know. John at the end if he did get better later on, deserves to be in heaven (like the show "The Good Place" where if you become a better person after you die, after a certain point you get in heaven.). The thing that bothered me was that they did make it seem like John got into heaven bc he was essentially "good". I did not like that. Also, them giving Dean the nail death, can be interpreted as realistic, but it just felt like he gave up bc the ONLY thing that could make him happy was DEATH. So, they basically told me (another person with abusive dad issues) that I will only be happy when I die. The thing is it subconsciously is in my mind right now. I am trying to make a better life for myself and although my dad is alive, I still cannot say "I love you" back to him (it has been like over 5 years) when he says it bc of the things he has done. And I feel like I will never get over it and only be able to resolve my feelings when I die. I have always identified with Dean so much, bc I repress feelings, am bisexual and would not believe anyone actually ever loving me. I do feel like I am not really worth anything other than what I give others (Literally, the only reason I want to stay alive is dependent on what I can do in the future for others, not myself). I do have a loving mother that is very like Mary, personality-wise, but also again abusive (Not as abusive as the good old dad, but yeah.). The only difference probably is that I don't have siblings and I do not have a Cass and Jack. Hell, I don't have a Bobby. So, the difference is I do not have family or friends or love. And it makes it harder bc there is no one I can count on. So, the show with its story and its ending basically told me: - You will only be happy when you die. - You being bisexual is not a thing, we're gonna pretend it does not exist. - Family does end in blood (bc they basically killed off/did something bad with every character that was considered "family without blood".), thus you will never have family that you can count on. - You will probably never be loved, and even if you are (by same-sex), they will disappear or IT IS WRONG bc it is gay. So, yeah. I am not OK with any of the messages the shows gave at the end. John, bisexuality, abuse, trauma. Nah. NADA.

@jp-qf8kk 2 жыл бұрын

Sending you a big hug across the internet. One day you will have your own 'found family' and be loved the way you deserve. ❤️

@zhulimoon46 2 жыл бұрын

@@jp-qf8kk I hope, thank you. I have a girlfriend now but we'll see what happens.

@duykhanh9174 2 жыл бұрын

I still remembered first time watching 'Lebanon' I went like 'So this really is happening' 'which writers on earth are thinking this a good idea? Not only bringing John back but also in the name of deepest desire of Dean' . Ss15 done many horrible ideas and put down all the previous seasons just by one ep, which is the "ending" ep

@HasnaaAlaa 3 жыл бұрын

This is a brilliant video, i hate john with a passion, i am an older sister, i only have a younger brother & we were raised in a very abusive home, both parents were horrible, my dad would beat me & my brother, mom would use him to scare us into doing what she wants us to do, you had to do good in school in order to be loved, our worth was defined by how good we preformed in school, it was horrible & it fu*ked us both to no end, in my case my parents were harder on my little brother than on me coz I did better in school, they would also fight together all the time, & i would have to calm down my brother & myself, so i relate to both Sam & dean in different ways, & john is a pos. Thank you for this video.

@imaginativeempress4309 2 жыл бұрын

Your parents are crap under more crap. You and your brother shouldn’t have gone through that

@danceteacherrlb 3 жыл бұрын

I don't think john liked dean more than sam, based on his repeated rejections of him. It's just he fills different roles than dean. Dean is so many things: he's the golden child, and the whipping boy all in one. But as soon as Sam starts asserting his personhood, or there is a part of him that John can't control (such as being given the demon blood) their relationship is full of conflict. John may try to protect baby Sam more than he did Dean, but he also treated him quite badly. Loving baby sam is not the same as loving sam as a person. Something I don't think he did

@thomasraines1396 6 ай бұрын

A good quote from a guy I know I think works for John’s character (and just in general a lot of characters who are completely bastards that people try and defend): “his past contextualizes his actions, it doesn’t excuse them”.

@Ragdoll161 2 жыл бұрын

Huh, I didn't think of what would have happened long term I was personally dissatisfied with this episode, because of how it showed John and it felt like a John Apologist episode and I felt he didn't deserve that Hearing it from someone who could relate to their situation (btw, I'm sorry you had to go through that, I'm glad you seem to be moving on and doing okay) is an interesting view point for it- viewing it in relation to a real situation opposed to just an event to make things happen

@emilyr9866 8 ай бұрын

John may have been their father, but Bobby was always their dad

@sunglassesinsidee 2 жыл бұрын

another great video from bob wess!

@mariepeil4868 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for creating this video. You explained the reasons why Dean & Sam are the way they are. Why Dean is so f*caked up. John & Mary did that. I don’t think John Winchester started out as a bad person but, I do think that he was a terrible, horrible father. The best thing he could have done for his family was to give up his boys to a more loving environment instead of dragging them into the horrible existence of the “Hunting Lifestyle.” This decision has irrevocable consequences & leads the boys to so many problems like co-dependency. Their mother wasn’t the greatest mom either. Sam never knew the difference but, Dean remembered everything. Sammy has a lot of issues but, Dean’s issues are raw and deep. I truly believe Dean was physically abused & has learned to repress a lot of his memories just to be able to function. This leads to his alcoholism & food addiction since he never had a lot to eat when he was younger. I agree that John can’t even look at Dean because he looks so much like his mother. You did a great job exploring the pathos of these characters that are so deserving of the love they never got to fully experience.

@memyselfandinobodyfromnowh9087 4 ай бұрын

*hugs* mine isn’t dead yet, but John was too much like my dad for me to ever like him either. Thanks for making this

@ioanaberbece8137 3 жыл бұрын

I detested this guy right from the start. And Mary Winchester too. Honest to Chuck, I don't understand how Dean came out of those two awful people.

@luminousmoon86 Жыл бұрын

I like that you brought up the possible selfish motivation for John sacrificing himself for Dean in season 2. I've always thought that yes, he did it because he does love Dean, and didn't want him to die, but that at the same time there was that selfish component as well. That he knew he wouldn't be able to kill Sam, so he died and left that part of the burden to Dean, the obedient soldier. Of course, he was wrong, both about Dean being able to do such a thing and about Sam needing to be killed. I've gotten yelled at by John apologists for this theory before. But I think people are incredibly complex. People can be abusive and selfish but still love the people they abuse. That doesn't in any way excuse the abuse. It's actually what makes family abuse so terrible and damaging. You spend the rest of your life knowing that someone loved you but they also hurt you, over and over. Because they did love you, you assume you must have deserved it. To me, it's a much more realistic portrait of abuse than what is commonly portrayed in most tv shows or media. They often portray abusive parents as 100% monsters, who live to torture their children, and have never shown them any love or affection whatsoever. Like I'm sure that kind of thing exists, but I think the John Winchester type of abuser is more common. Someone who does love their children but is just incredibly bad at it for whatever reasons.

@J_J0v0 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this comment! I totally agree with what you said about John doesn't know the first thing about being a parent. I thank you for pointing out he loves the boys in an abusive way and that he is not just a monster. People always think I defend John the abuser, but in reality, I just want people to see him as John Winchester, not as "the reason for all of the boys' hardships and a horrible human being who should burn eternally in hell". John is nowhere near a good father, and he is very much emotionally abusive toward Sam and Dean which messes them up a lot. But this blindly hating him and blaming everything on him trend (that some people follow) needs to stop. I also don't believe he intentionally wanted to mess his kids up. It doesn't excuse him for being abusive, but people I've met tend to think of him as an evil stepmother figure. He is not that! Thank you again for pointing that out. Also a side point about Dean's over-protectiveness towards Sam. Me as the oldest sibling myself relate strongly with Dean on that. I don't think whatever Dean feel about Sam is entirely hardwired in by John. Sure, John made Sam Dean's responsibility, but being the eldest, the responsibility is there whether others force it upon you or not. Especially when they are living in a dangerous world and evil is in every corner. When I was young, my little brother once ran away (with his friend) for only about 3 or 4 hours. I was supposed to look after him but got distracted. The entire time I wouldn't rest nomatter what my parents said and was looking up an down everywhere for him. When he finally came back with his friend oblivious to the despaire he caused, my legs collapsed under me and I couldn't stop shaking or crying out of joy and lingering fear. I was about 9 and my brother was way younger. Then when I was about 11, my brother cracked his forehead open on the couch handle. It was right above his eyes. I caused it, because I was tickling him and he was trying to get away from me. My parents took him to the hospital, and I was (supposed to be) home alone for about 2 hours. I stayed for about 30 minutes, then ran away from home. I did that because I couldn't shake the image of blood pouring out from his wound and his pained cry. (I went to my friend and later my dad picked me up) The two little stories above was me trying to show you (those who are an only child or are a younger sibling) how an elder sibling would feel automatically when their kid sibling is not healthy and safe and happy. Neither of the time did my parents blamed me for what happened. They never pressured me to take care of my little brother or say it would be my fault if anything happens to him. I just feel that way because I am older, I know better than him, he is my responsibility and I love him. That being said, Dean might feel responsible to Sam no matter John made him feel that way or not, simply because Sam is his baby brother.

@J_J0v0 Жыл бұрын

I just realized that I didn't give any context about why I would act that way if my brother was just away for about 3 hours. So the situation is: he is about 5 years old, and anybody, I mean ANYBODY, could have taken him by force, or simply ask him to follow them and he would do that. I personally am very very cautious about things like that cause my parents taught me well about potential dangers. Up until he was 13, I would make sure he knows the all potential dangers and would never let him out of my sight if we are in a big crowd (cause I have a great fear of him possibly being abducted). I know sometimes it's unhealthy to be over protective of him and not letting him see and try the world as it is and I would try to let go, but that's not the point. The point is Dean, if he feels anywhere the same as I feel about baby brothers, would be indefinitely more terrified than I was of the potential danger Sam might face. And it's not only when they are in a big crowd of people, it would be anytime Sam is not in his direct line of sight because Dean knows what's out there. I feel safe when we are at home or with our parents, but Dean didn't have the luxury. John wasn't always there, and they didn't have a "safe home". That insecurity and fear for his loved one would mess him up a lot.

@spiritualelement757 4 ай бұрын

I have those kinds of parents myself, parents who love us but are capable of hurting us. It makes you so confused on what to feel wondering if the resentment you feel towards is genuinely valid when you find yourself liking them when they’re nice to you.

@annexsis5181 2 жыл бұрын

neither of john winchester’s kids is his FAVORITE or was treated better…sam was his scapegoated child who was alienated from the family and could never do anything right no matter what, while dean was his golden child who was lovebombed for following orders to a T and berated for anything else, thus depriving him of any individuality and grooming him into a mini john sam is not somehow less abused because he understands that he was abused and broke away, he’d just been unrelentingly treated badly for so long that he realized early on that he was never going to have his father’s approval and gave up on trying to win it (as most scapegoated children do), which resulted in rebelliousness and estrangement (as it does for a lot of scapegoated children) john doesn’t actually love dean more, he likes dean more, because he’s successfully manipulated dean into being exactly what he wants him to be at any given time. dean learned over the course of his childhood (as golden children do) that he can remain in dad’s good graces as long as he’s a perfect soldier, a perfect babysitter, a perfect son, a perfect peacekeeper, etc. he’s forced to sacrifice his identity to please his father that’s why we see dean defending john in season 1 while sam talks shit every chance he gets. sam has given up on seeking validation from their father, while dean is still desperately trying to stay between the dotted lines to win their father over they’re both super shitty positions to be in, and neither one is actually better

@merlin8046 2 жыл бұрын

I was around 16 when I watched first seasons so I didn't really pay attention to John and I was still stuck in an abusive household. But now as I watch your video about it I can relate to Sam's relationship with his father so much. You say that you feel anxious when you see Sam fighting with John, I feel anger because was that kid who was constantly fighting with their parent. I'm the one who left and doesn't stay in touch most of the time.

@Pineapplecrispy Ай бұрын

There was a post on Tumblr about the one time Dean calls his dad to ask for help and it goes to voicemail. Voicemail says if you need any help call my son Dean.

@alleesondempsee548 3 жыл бұрын

I still dislike the episode for all the emotions it brought up for me personally, but you've definitely given me new appreciation for it :)

@trullyfreak 6 ай бұрын

John was their father. Bobby was their dad.

@ForestNurse1406 Жыл бұрын

Thhhahahahe man, your laugh in the end was awesome!! We love you❤ Thank you for sharing your personal things with us💚

@rahaa.sh_307 2 жыл бұрын

My fav thing about this video were: 1) 2×1 & mentioning the fact that Bobby tried to comfort Sam, I loved that scene, when Sammy said if there's the least hope then they're not gonna give up & the fact that Bobby instantly realized he's also talking about Dean & his face changed to the loving caring look & agreed with him. 2) 10×17 & getting help from Bobby instead of John, dang I had never payed attention to that before! 3) Sam being able to raise Jack without being afraid of fucking up like John, man that hit so hard! I never payed attention to that before either, probably because I always counted Cas as Jack's #1 father (I still do), but I guess it was so true, Dean clearly didn't have that situation because he already had his successful parenting experience with Sammy, but Sam himself on the other hand... 4) Overall not forgetting the fact that just the fact that John was way more abusive towards Dean, doesn't mean his behaviour with Sam was ok. There are things with which I disagree though: 1) John being protective over Sam & neglecting Dean at the same time, well in that scene Sam was the one attacked by the monster so obviously John was gonna be around him, which I don't even call protection since Sam got in danger because of John himself.... 2) Sam giving crap to Dean about the whole emotion thing: Sam was there for Dean, he got yelled at, he got slapped (I blame John for these & not Dean, but that doesn't mean Sam deserved these), but he got mad when Dean fought with people they were trying to help & took his issues out on them, Sam didn't want that for other people, & rightfully so. 3) I still find it "Lebanon" a John apologist ep, & it's one of my least fav episodes of the show for that reason (& that hug in the end is my least fav hug in the whole show), let's not forget Dean said they were able to save the world because of him, so yeah it's like the writers told us: "John raised them as heroes, let's love this man". I liked that Sam got to say goodbye, the only thing I liked about him coming back but besides redemption, it wasn't worth sseing boys in pain again, as if they hadn't suffered enough already. But despite the fact that my mind hasn't changed on that, I gotta say I was really impressed by your interpretation. It was truly beautiful. Also I wish you had added these: 1) How John's last words affected both boys, Dean had to keep it in his mind all over & had been in rage because of it, Sam being totally suicidal after knowing it. 2) 3×11, Dean & his nightmare version talking about John. 3) 14×12, the boys talking about John's history, Dean still having traumas while Sam getting teary & try to avoid the subject. 4) 15×17, Sam naming John next to Lucifer, who was his greates torturer/fear In the end, very well done about this video! It was a very nice work! 👍👍👍👍

@NickNelsons_bigsis Жыл бұрын

When they "met Adam" in Season 4 Adam said that he didn't know John until he was twelve and that their Dad dropped what he was doing and went to meet him after learning of his existance. I did a bit of calculating and it does not look good for John. Adam was born in 1990 and was turning 12 in 2002. Sam was arround 19 at the time and Dean was about 23. That puts Adam meeting his Dad for the first time around the same time Sam left for Stanford. That means John ditched Dean right after to go see his new son who was not part of the hunting life.

@setofreakinkaiba8553 Жыл бұрын

Adam says John would only visit him once a year....

@NickNelsons_bigsis Жыл бұрын

@@setofreakinkaiba8553 And Dean never knew about that probably thinking his dad went on a case alone every year.

@fletcher272 Жыл бұрын

Honestly I couldn't agree more with everything said in this video, if Sam and Dean grew up living with Bobby their lives would've been so much better

@tiffanypersaud3518 2 жыл бұрын

Yeh... trauma can be very subjective. Those who defend John probably were not on the receiving end of remotely anything he did. Good for them. But I think through vids like these, it helps with general empathy for folks. Thanks for sharing. You didn’t have to, but I appreciate it. AND HUGS!!

@sammypompeius 3 жыл бұрын

This video is great and you explained your thoughts perfectly! I really enjoyed it and I can see why you think so highly of this episode ^^ I think you where worried you didn't make your thoughts understandable because it hit so close to home? I just wanted to thank you for sharing your perspective, how your past experiences affects your view of the ep, it brought a lot to this video and you DID make your thoughts completely understandable. I really love your channel ♡ Aaa I'm late to class because I was watching this (worth it) gotta go

@C0RR0SIIVE 3 ай бұрын

You're so real for this

@emilywood7397 Жыл бұрын

Miss uncle Johnny damn he was Bobby

@voidi5435 5 ай бұрын

Used to "defend" John because guess who is exactly like him, my father! Also, 90% of all fathers in my country are just browner versions of John, and as a result I didn't see John as all that bad, but seeing the way Dean would act around him reminded me so much of myself I kinda snapped myself out of it lol. This was from when I was much younger and still didn't know mental health existed.

@whatshouldinamemyself215 3 жыл бұрын

you could make a video on dean and jack's relationship cos there's a lot to talk about

@cynthiaholmes5124 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah you're definitely right about that that's going to be an interesting video 🤔🤨

@gagank478 24 күн бұрын

Great video.

@mcmann2243 10 ай бұрын

Having read a lot of fanfic recently, I’ve realized just how well written of an abusive parent John is in the earlier seasons. A lot of fanfic makes John out to be some over the top verbally and physically abusive parent, who’s almost too shitty to feel realistic. On the other hand, the show portrays him in a way different light. It’s more nuanced, and I know a lot of people relate to John and the boys in the show. It’s really interesting, as someone who’d consider his mother/possibly father emotionally abusive, how much easier making abuse parents villainous is. It allows revenge to feel deserved, and baggage to be left behind quickly. Like in the show, the real world is often more muddy and gray

@user-pf1dk5vx2l 2 жыл бұрын

What you said about dean always trying to please john hit a little to close to home. Personally I really hated that episode, really every clip that in any way could show john in a good light, but hear me out: for me I wouldn't like an apology as much as justice, so that might be why me and others don't like Lebanon as much. Not that there is any wrong way to look at it- I am just explaining my side of it. Maybe, as you said, things will feel different as time goes by, but for now I'd much rather have a fight w my family over the sht they'd done

@xxxjordandangerouslyxxx 2 жыл бұрын

New sub. You should do this with every character.

@255pushpajakandula2 2 жыл бұрын

He treated Adam well.... he took Adam to a freaking baseball game... then why not dean and sam

@freyabaade2810 12 күн бұрын

Dean has always been the poster child for Parentification... I believe John thinks he loves his kids. Maybe he even does. Maybe he does "his best", but it's just not enough. You can be a narcissistic parent without being a narcissist.

@xxxjordandangerouslyxxx 2 жыл бұрын

I disagree on some points but I see it.

@icoleman150 3 жыл бұрын

I can’t stand John Winchester as a parent. He was extremely negligent at very least and somewhat abusive at worst. I don’t understand his fanbase at all.

@cynthiaholmes5124 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah john was a bad father when it came to his son's he was a man consumed by revenge on the demon that killed his wife then getting on with his life and be a father to his kids 🤯😠😡🤬😤

@fireball5112 9 ай бұрын

The algorythm took way too long to bring me to this video. I agree with all of it! John supposingly trained the boys to become the perfect hunters, but he failed. During the first seasons we see them studying John's journal every time they encounter something unknown. Though they find all necessary info in the journal, John failed to pass that important info the boys. He could have given them the journal years ago. He tought them how to be scared but not how to actually fight. I think that's because he wanted that control over them. He didn't want them to be independent cause that would mean they could leave him any time. No, he wanted his soldiers present so he made them feel they were useless and helpless without him. He took advantage of their emotions. He took advantage of Dean's need to always satisfy him. One of the first things he does after being AWOL for months, is accuse him for not taking proper care of the Impala. He fed from his insecurities. That's toxic af. His sacrifise and even Lebanon was too little too late. For me, both parents failed the boys.

@laurencesledge5100 2 жыл бұрын

2 min in to this video, and I get just what he is going with this❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

@brotemca8020 Жыл бұрын

If you want a rewrite of lebanon where John stay sfor longer and they realistically confront their trauma about how they were raised, i highly recommend you read Broken Road by thegeminisage on ao3. It's my favourite fanfic on the entire website, hands down.

@laurabarclay9356 Жыл бұрын

When I first started watching supernatural I was in high school. As an adult, I’ve realized I was in multiple abusive relationships and part of it was because of religious conditioning and gaslighting done by the cult church my parents were in the first 12 years of my life. My older sister was in that cult church for 17 years. I don’t blame my parents, they were gaslight into believing the awful members of the church. Since leaving after one of the members left marks on my brother, my parents found a new church and I truly believe have changed. I started watching supernatural again and I’m on s8, haven’t seen 14,15 but I’ve watched some clips. I am going through now realizing my grandmothers abuse to me and my parents. I found myself relating to dean and Sam and once I realized how abusive she was, I think of when dean says, family don’t end in blood, doesn’t start there either. I understand the meaning of chosen family and I know who to go to where I will be unconditionally loved and never be judged for being bi or my disabilities or mistakes like I have been with my other family members. This video is a year old and my comment is long. But thank you for making this video, I can understand where people who say he isn’t abusive because it didn’t register with me at 14, but does at 25.

@Peaslepuff Жыл бұрын

Sadly, I think I have to disagree that people who didn't recognize John's abuse is because they didn't have parental-related trauma. I think some of them had not yet come to terms with their own trauma. Spoiler alert I'm definitely referring to myself, because I did nottttt think John Winchester was abusive the first time I watched Supernatural, but I've had some eye-opening therapeutic developments since then.

@deadpooldan9862 9 ай бұрын

Personally, I don’t think John was a terrible father. Yes, he was abusive and neglectful and he left the boys with psychological issues they’d keep for their whole lives, including a toxic, codependent need to save the other or stay together, but you do need to remember what he went through. His wife burned to death in front of his eyes, and that shattered him, and he still had 2 boys to raise. Dean literally said it himself, John was a shell of his former self when Mary died, so he focused entirely on revenge, not just to avenge Mary, but he also wanted to let his kids have a normal life. I get he’s a toxic person, but he did try his best to raise his kids alone, something it took Sam and Dean years to understand after they’ve both died and sacrificed to save each other and the people they love multiple times. I do understand why people hate him, but I think they forget everything he went through and suffered.

@elvingearmasterirma7241 Жыл бұрын

I relate to Dean because my father uses me as a scapegoat! Except two years ago I stopped trying to make my dad proud. Fkc my dad. Im now more like Sam, while still being Dean to my father. So I have no issues getting into verbal fights to defend myself.

@sheillaen2 Ай бұрын

Everyone forget he went to hell because for dean.

@jebus42069 12 күн бұрын

Does that erase what he did while he was alive?

@edwardwolf2766 29 күн бұрын

bob wess , have you ever read no more mr nice guy buy dr r glover ?

@annexsis5181 2 жыл бұрын

sam as the reason behind mary’s death i think once john learned that sam had demon blood, some part of him must have always been waiting for the other shoe to drop with sam, not ever fully believing this kid was human, and maybe not even knowing if this kid was HIS. a popular theory back in the day was that YED fathered sam (something they had to actually address in season 4 to stop the speculation), and if WE speculated that hard, surely john must have too. i’m sure he loves sam as an extension of mary, and keeps and raises and protects him BECAUSE he’s mary’s, but similarly (or maybe inverse) to dean, i don’t know if he ever fully gave himself permission to love sam for being sam. in fact, i imagine john harbors a lot of self-loathing for failing to save mary. if we directly parallel john and sam, that means by some extent he would also hate sam.

@blueskeletonking2701 Жыл бұрын

I like john I don't think he was the best father per say but he was a good father and the best one for sam and dean. if it were not for his training that he made them do not only would they have died when the demons plan came to fruition but also the world would be engulfed in demons. Say whatever you want about the man but imagine sam and dean as two regular civies. When the demon comes for sam again what then? they and everyone else are dead. But because they were trained because they were prepared by john they made it through all the hardships that life threw at them. The whole point of a parent is to prepare you for life's hardships and in this case, it fits

@lunafox9 Жыл бұрын

I hated john cause he was so similar to my father, he was mentally abusive and neglective, growing up I saw Bobby as a father figure/role model, I think thats why I related to Sam and Dean so much when I was little

@ForestNurse1406 Жыл бұрын

I really would like to see how Castiel bits the crap out of this man who called himself boys's father 🔥 That would be Top

@annexsis5181 2 жыл бұрын

john trusted dean with far too much, and sam with far too little dean knew about monsters; sam didn’t. dean had memories of their mother and the night she died, and shared that trauma of watching her die with john; sam didn’t. dean knew when john was supposed to be home and who to call if he wasn’t; sam didn’t. dean was given the money and the guns and the CAR ITSELF; sam wasn’t. dean was taught to drive; SAM WASN’T. dean was expected to do everything john was supposed to have been doing in his absence - he was to be a mother and father to sam, he was supposed to protect sam from evil, he was supposed to see to sam’s meals and homework and getting to school on time. and he was put under an EXTRAORDINARY amount of pressure not to screw this up even a little bit, despite the fact that he was only a kid. sam on the other hand was kept on a strict need-to-know basis for his entire life, right up until season 1 when they reunite at last. john didn’t trust sam with ANYTHING, and sam knew it. this contributed to his lifelong anger issues because he didn’t DO anything to warrant that kind of mistrust and probably got gaslit about it a lot of times either by john himself or dean (unknowingly, by parroting/believing the things john said). even in the pilot sam says very casually of his mother “she’s gone,” because her memory doesn’t hold the same place of reverence for him - best guess is that john didn’t talk about her much to sam because he didn’t trust sam with emotional stuff either. in s14 we learn that dean was the one who told sam stories about mary, including her terrible casserole - and their attempt at recreating it infuriated john to the point of him throwing the entire concoction in the trash. john relied on dean for everything, and refused to rely on sam for anything canonically dean was the one who comforted john after a bad hunt, looked after and fed his brother when john wasn’t around. dean knew how to use a shotgun; sam didn’t. dean knew who to call in an emergency; sam didn’t. dean knew about monsters; sam didn’t. this was done under the guise of “protection for sammy” but turn it around and it’s also protection FROM sammy. think of how angry john gets when he learns sam has been having psychic visions. he’s not just angry that dean didn’t report it to him, he’s angry that the demon’s plans for sam are coming to pass, and that sam is becoming less human. again, he can’t TRUST sam if sam’s not human, and it proves to john that he was right all along to keep sam in the dark as much as possible.

@shioma 10 күн бұрын

9:01

@annexsis5181 2 жыл бұрын

john abused both dean AND sam, just differently.

@annexsis5181 2 жыл бұрын

john gave dean too much freedom, and sam no freedom at all “watch out for sammy.” sam was under constant supervision by either dean or john; john made sure of it. again, it’s protection FOR sam but also protection FROM him, in case he did something inhuman or evil. dean on the other hand was left alone without any supervision at all for days or even weeks at a time - he resorts to stealing bread and peanut butter and (according to jackles) turning tricks for money. he had to make it work and got up to whatever the fuck he wanted when john wasn’t looking. sam had to LITERALLY run away from home before he got the simple pleasure of eating pizza and having a dog by himself, independently. dean was given too much independence and freedom but sam was kept on such a short leash he had none at all.