Jon Moss in depth interview part 2

Рет қаралды 67,955

16 жыл бұрын

Пікірлер: 149

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

Jon is honest and real. If he has an issue with George he will tell you straight up. He has had issues with George but they are friends now. There are people who will criticize George behind his back but then deny it in public. Yes, I'm talking about you Coby Koehl. But Jon is real and has true integrity. I just love him with all my heart.

@Dijabril 5 жыл бұрын

This is the realest dude ever!

@promiseland6285 6 жыл бұрын

I wish Jon and Jon 's family are happy.

@Biprov 15 жыл бұрын

Love Jon's candor in this interview---very forthright and relaxed.

@HORSESWELUV 6 жыл бұрын

God I miss the sincerity of the 80s artists and Jon is so damned hot, Culture Club is a great band, the only one with a freaking good new record and fresh music, few good stuff remaining is them.

@rongniadek1691 2 жыл бұрын

Jon is so genuine, such a nice guy.

@Charlieparliee 13 жыл бұрын

I think Jon's just a great person with a great personality. Apart from that he looked(and in a way still looks) great. Can't blame George that he fell in love with him. (:

@katenash8891 10 жыл бұрын

I like Jon because he's pop and punk at the same time. He's by far the most cool real member of CC. You have George the diva and Roy and Mikey boring. But Jon is sort of in between. He's a real sincere person.

@deerheart87 7 жыл бұрын

but dull

@naturalkinkycurlymarie7496 6 жыл бұрын

I agree. I love the other guys but Jon is my favorite.

@naturalkinkycurlymarie7496 6 жыл бұрын

The interview is not Jon. I've seen others do better at Interviewing Celebrity artist.

@lessismore8533 4 жыл бұрын

Sorry I dont think Roy is boring lol. Youre just not interested. Which is fine lol

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

So did you all see the movie, Worried about the Boy? So happy with it. Mat. Horne played Jon as the good charming person he is. Not the monster Boy George fans say he is. No wonder George hated it. Best movie ever. You guys have to see it.

@startracker5895 3 жыл бұрын

I thought he played Jon as an arrogant arsehole.

@deep71483 16 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who had (and still has) a huge crush on Jon. I would go crazy for him too if I was George. Jon was the brains of culture club.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

Did you all see the movie. Worried about the Boy? Mathew Horne portrayed Jon so well. He showed him with humanity and compassion and as a loving caring person. I cried when I saw it. Finally, George isn't shown as Mr. Perfect and Jon not as a monster.

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

I am so moved that people are appreciating Jon now. I felt I was the only one. I guess now that George has stopped dissing him now people are brave enough to tell the truth. Jon is real and honest and never a phony like George is. Jon says whatever comes into his head just like I do. He doesn't say what his manager or publicist tells him to like George does. Jon is a real person, George is a celebrity.

@naturalkinkycurlymarie7496 6 жыл бұрын

SO TRUE!

@lessismore8533 4 жыл бұрын

Maybe nowadays. But back in the 80s according to interviews I've watched on KZfaq, George was more outspoken and not robotic

@TheBourbonStreet 14 жыл бұрын

thank you very much for posting this!

@ra91342 11 жыл бұрын

He is handsome and smart and articulate STILL !

@deerheart87 7 жыл бұрын

and middle aged

@josealcocerlm5524 4 жыл бұрын

Me gustaría que traduzcan las entrevistas de ellos dos x que amo a boy George y quiero saber más sobre el

@gerrysantosmd 15 жыл бұрын

I love you Jon Moss. Good luck and all the best. Warm regards from Australia.

@angiedougan 3 жыл бұрын

What a wally 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@angiedougan 3 жыл бұрын

He only used george hes definitely not gay ,so glad boy george dumped him well overdue

@epifaniamartinez7781 4 жыл бұрын

Quicira que esta entrevista fuera en español

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

Back to the movie. I can see why George hated it. It made him look like a bitchy spoiled brat who was a total pain while it made Jon look witty, intelligent, loving and practically a saint for putting up with George's endless crap. I couldn't have written it better myself. Loved it!

@powrxplor69 14 жыл бұрын

great interview, love his honesty , he just seems like a reaally nice guy.....and yeah he's still hot

@alexkeirafan 16 жыл бұрын

he still looks pretty good; i loved him in the 80's XD :* Culture Club 4-Ever thanks for posting

@crystalblur3 11 жыл бұрын

Lol!!! "In the queeny community".

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

If you really love someone, you care about their feelings, too. That's George's problem. He thinks being in love is just about him and not the other person. He thinks being in love means he can just go and publicly attack his ex-lovers and they don't have feelings, too. That's not love, that's selfish obsession.

@MsSmartiepants2 13 жыл бұрын

@chico19731991 Doubt it. George used drugs before he met Jon. He overdosed on speed before Jon. Almost everyone in the music business does drugs. Don't blame Jon for George's drug use.

@normaaramburo2600 5 жыл бұрын

podrian traducirlo al español

@christopherwinstanley1348 6 жыл бұрын

I remember at the time the media playing the fact about the break up, but Jon was doing things with other bands. I think it takes someone that can relax and come away from the spotlight. Culture Club was an iconic 80s band and it must have been difficult to create a band on that scale. The individuality with Culture Club was right for that time socially and there was a lot of "wannabe". I'm glad their was no fakes in talent and originality. Music lives on.

@lessismore8533 4 жыл бұрын

Lucky you. I wasnt born til 91

@christopherwinstanley1348 4 жыл бұрын

@@lessismore8533 You are the luckiest. The 80s was a minefield for all types and explosive, toward the 90s music industry had become more leveled out. 😂🙂

@lessismore8533 2 жыл бұрын

@@christopherwinstanley1348 maybe the80s wasn’t the best in all areas but definitely music wise it was. Was CC as big as the Spice girls?

@christopherwinstanley1348 2 жыл бұрын

@@lessismore8533 I'm not saying anything negative with the Spice Girls, they came into being in mid 90s but there was a lot of girl bands and boy bands emerged and it was very predictable. The 80s was the beginning of electric sounds and culture club was perhaps more original... a bit daring with Boy George in so much make up. So Culture Club was breaking the taboo really as the public wasn't use to that. A few artists from that time have kept original but because of electric music, and didn't need actual musicians to make a recording some music became repetitive and commercial (you didn't even have to have talent or be able to sing). Culture Club didn't conform with that and those songs will be classic forever. Hope your day is well 😁

@lll9077 8 жыл бұрын

podrían traducirlo?!! pls

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

How can you miss George? He still performs and tours all the time. Jon doesn't get to do that anymore. George has promised that there will be a CC reunion in 2012. I hope he keeps his promise and doesn't let down Jon, Roy and Mikey like he has in the past. I miss Culture Club, Sad to say, George only notices the negative comments.

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

Jon has admitted his mistakes. He has acknowledged that he was in love with George. Why do you have a problem with him if George doesn't? George says he is friends with Jon now. Don't you trust George's judgment about people?

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

Jon has always been generous with fans. He has always posed for pictures with fans and signed autographs. And why do fans have to chose one or the other? I may not like George that much, but there are plenty of fans who like both George and Jon.

@ANAP89 15 жыл бұрын

I agree with you! It's a little bit stupid hold a grudge forever!I just don't understand some Boy George fans!

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

You're wrong. He got them in car accident after he declined to join the Ramones. Even if he did deny the relationship, jt wasn't an intentional desire to hurt George. If he did, it was because he was conflicted about his sexuality just like George Michael and a million other people. It doesn't make him a bad person. Show some compassion. Why does only George deserve compassion? Everyone forgives him for abusing the escort, but Jon is never forgiven for his mistakes.

@mayyinchen8606 10 жыл бұрын

goodgre message l love many file and other forms

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

George was convicted of this crime. You say George always shares the good and the bad and admits his mistakes. Yet he refused to testify in the court case and has refused to discuss the details of the escort case. Why is that?

@johnmcquilkin 3 жыл бұрын

Jon Moss loves Culture Club. It's a shame that as of this writing Jon Moss has allegedly been asked to take a break from Culture Club by George, Mikey and Roy. Hopefully this comment will not age well and they will be back together soon!

@knitinsolitude4979 3 жыл бұрын

Is that the reason why he wasn’t there at that online gig in December? Why didn’t the others want him to be there?

@laurafirpo3002 3 жыл бұрын

Traduccion!!!!

@laurafirpo3002 3 жыл бұрын

Traduccion por favor!

@Nightbird. 15 жыл бұрын

Jon is still incredibly handsome & brilliant musically. Culture Club would not have been the success they were without him, as he was it's musical backbone. Any man/woman would be lucky to have Jon in their life, because you can see the passion in his eyes & hear it in his voice. He has been deeply maligned by convicted felon George, who we all know does what he wants (mostly illegal activities nowadays) & says what he pleases without caring who he hurts in the process. Best wishes to you Jon!

@prettybionic 15 жыл бұрын

gotta be a virgo man.....head man for sure.love him.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

@TheAssassinsAssassin He said it on his twitter page. He just pretended to like it to look good in the press.

@shanitrahan9904 5 жыл бұрын

Can someone please tell me what year Jon moss did the depth interview on his own

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

Another thing. If George is so fabulous and wonderful and perfect as you claim, why wouldn't Jon fall in love with him? No one can resist George, according to his fans. So if the only way George can get a man to stay with him is because of the money that doesn't reflect too well on George, does it?

@SannieGirl5 16 жыл бұрын

I think it was 2002 but i'm not sure

@jessicaharris4647 10 жыл бұрын

you can. I found it at my library.

@rosettaconley6408 4 жыл бұрын

Jon and George young gun Love them

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

The new CC wasn't Jon's idea. It was the brainchild of Tony Gordon. Jon was very reluctant to do it. Why do hold this against Jon, but not Tony Gordon? Tony is now George's manager again. I don't think Jon is required to share his personal life with everyone. All he owes us is good music

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

People don't ask Sean Penn about Madonna all the time. They forget about it and move on. If they did, Sean would punch them out! Jon's problem is he is too nice and too willing to be open to fans. I think he should just say stay out of my private life!

@yuyiboy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for saying you did have a thing with George. Remember.....The act doesn’t make you anything. Being gay has nothing to do with whom you have sex with.

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

Jon got his scars from being in a car accident. that wasn't his fault. It doesn't make you not a nice person because you were in a car accident. Jon has acknowledged his relationship with George. He never said it didn't happen. He just wanted to keep it private. I love what Nightbird said. You could say the same about George. He may be lovely to fans but what is he like when you are alone with him? He's been in jail. George didn't get sent to jail for being a nice guy.

@vikmegha 16 жыл бұрын

Sorry, ignore that comment! It was in 2002.

@alexkeirafan 16 жыл бұрын

Don't mind ;)

@SModikoane 16 жыл бұрын

Yeah, buddy.

@SModikoane 16 жыл бұрын

George never commented either way in the early days. But the fact that he was in drag kind of gave it away. That's why he was so popular and fun to watch. It was pretty wild at the time. He helped gays to be more accepted. They all agreed on one interview that it was the love affair between Jon and George that made the group. George was a great promoter and Jon was a great manager.

@ANAP89 15 жыл бұрын

YEAH,I AGREE WITH YOU ,CECEFRANKI

@vikmegha 16 жыл бұрын

This was filmed 10 years ago.

@DUANEMUSIC1 14 жыл бұрын

@fiona333 i luv bg, but i kinda agree with you...

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

And you know these things how? Because that's what George said in his book? There are always two sides to every relationship. From what I can see George is very capable of being domineering and manipulative also. He himself admits that. George is an adult. I don't see how Jon could control him. George did what he wanted. But I wish George had broken it off, instead of ruining Jon's life through all his unfair bitchy attacks against Jon.

@SModikoane 16 жыл бұрын

Oh, my, poor little Jon...sob.

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

George is responsible for his own drug use. He said that himself. Jon didn't make him use drugs, it was his own choice. George uses drugs because he likes getting high not because of what Jon did or didn't to. George hasn't seen Jon in years, but yet he is still using drugs. Why is that? George's drug problem was far worse than the others. George was the only one on heroin.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

I can't move on until George says he's sorry. It's not just the Striaght book. George has always criticized Jon in every interview and in first book. Have you read every interview George has done? He always criticizes Jon! Jon has class because he never criticizes George. George has no class whatsover! Why isn't George responsible for what he writes?

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

I think it's unfair that George gets all the love from the fans and all the credit for CC's success. Jon, Roy and Mikey contributed a lot too. I just find George hypocritical for criticizing them for wanting to tour to make money, but anytime George wants he plays CC songs without them just to make money. Why do we have to wait until 2012? I'm sick of waiting. I want CC now!

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

I agree with you buddypb about the divas. I love Madonna and think she is the best artist ever, but I think she is very difficult to have a relationship with. George is the same way. Liar, taker, cold, selfish and secretly vulnerable, I think that describes George. Like he says, when you are talking about others you are really talking about yourself.

@Jene51 15 жыл бұрын

actually, when CC took a break in 1985 for a yr it was because Jon was "helping" a singer named Shelia with her career (he had a crush). when that didn't work he came back to George. George couldn't handle that situation + went to NY to get away for a while. That's when he really got messed up on drugs. he didn't realize that drugs never take away the pain. actually, everything that the other 3 have is because of George. HE is Culture Club, they are 3 good musicians,but nothing without George.

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

I think it's sad how no one can ever escape their past. No matter how happy Jon is with his wife, how many kids he has or what he tries to do musically with another band, he will always be George's ex-boyfriend. And everyone will gang up on him and attack him because he doesn't want to get back with George.

@naturalkinkycurlymarie7496 6 жыл бұрын

That is what George wanted but Only a few reporters like to go there. Everyone else sees him for who he is Jon Moss, drummer with many bands including Culture Club. We are not defined by who we dated a lifetime ago or who we married. Jon's talents, his 3 Children, and legacy are what he is about. He's done enough television, radio and magazine interviews to be known for who he really is.

@elizabethtaytay7620 6 жыл бұрын

U r nothing without beautiful boygeorge icon genius absolutely stunning still boy George love you genius and hot awesome voice boygerge 80s and still love you so much BOY GEORGE never leaves us 2018and forever

@SModikoane 16 жыл бұрын

Actually, I thought you did know them personally. Jon was in the Closet. Check out the other interviews, particularly "Young Guns Go For It" in 6 parts. Jon states that he didn't want anyone to know he was gay. Let's agree that they were the best of the best. Of all the bands from the 1980's they're the only one that is still recognizable in everyone's memory. Without checking KZfaq, I can bet that Adam Ant and the Waitresses aren't getting nearly as much action.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

It just seems to me there have been endless documentaries, articles and now movies about CC and George and Jon. The BBC movie was great, but enough is enough. I wish people would just let Jon be happy with his wife and kids and not constantly drag up the George stuff and ask him questions about their relationship all the time.

@faid.k2871 3 жыл бұрын

im sooo lateee but thanks for sharing!

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

People have the right to keep their private life private. Their relationship is none of your business. And your precious George used far more drugs than Jon did. But of course that was all Jon's fault, wasn't it?

@Jene51 15 жыл бұрын

fiona, I quess you have never loved anyone that much.

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

Thanks for uploading. I love Jon. gmansgal1, he meant what did George want from him after their relationship ended? Jon tried to love George, but the relationship didn't work out because they are two different people. George couldn't accept that and continued to attack Jon in the press. I hope in the future George will just leave Jon alone and let Jon live his own life with his family and not harass him through the press.

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

You see Honest. I see mean, bitchy and cruel. George puts everyone down and tears them apart in order to make himself feel better. George is big on being "honest" about other people, but he gets very mad when anyone is "honest" about him. George can dish it out, but he can't take it.

@deborahscofield6738 7 жыл бұрын

I don't know George but I feel for him everytime I hear an interview with Jon. Roy, Jon and Mikey tried to reform the band with another front-man. No shock that it didn't end well. Jon keeps whining. " what was expected of me". I don't need this" (George). And falling for George who happened to be a man. He Roy and Mikey weren't anything without George.

@davestuddaman8127 5 жыл бұрын

How many big hits did George have without them?

@jessemacias2 4 жыл бұрын

Dave Studdaman many, the Crying Game for one, they’re back together in 2020 recording and touring!

@hollyjolly2066 4 жыл бұрын

@@jessemacias2 Jon Moss was forced out of Culture Club in the fall of 2018 and is suing Boy George for his wrongful termination.

@jessemacias2 4 жыл бұрын

Holly Jolly maybe they should just kiss and make up. Get back together as a band and as a couple.

@hollyjolly2066 4 жыл бұрын

@@jessemacias2 I wish they would or could! I don't know the "inside story," but from all the articles I've read, it seems that Jon is absolutely devastated at having been forced to leave Culture Club, and was described as being in "floods of tears" over it. Boy George claims Jon left to "spend time with family," but something about that doesn't sound right, especially after reading articles published very close in time to these events, and seeing what both sides had to say. Jon would not have been described as being so distraught and overcome with grief if he had left voluntarily. He also would not have instituted legal action if he had left on his own. I believe Jon feels deeply betrayed and that he won't ever get over this. I would love to know what prompted George to force Jon out, because that is exactly what I believe happened. I'm doubtful they will ever speak to each other again. How sad.

@curvy71 15 жыл бұрын

i thought Jon Moss had converted back to being straight.

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

George is going around performing the old CC hits all the time at all these Here and Now shows. Who is going to care about a CC reunion in 2012 if they hear the old hits all the time? The excitement about a reunion of an old band is people hear songs they haven't heard in a long time. That isn't there because George is milking the old songs like KC for every last buck.

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

It's funny you didn't refute any of my points. Oh, you can't because they're all true!

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

I like George's music. I just don't agree with the mean things he says about other people. George over the years has made many bitter and angry comments about other people. Why is George allowed to say what he feels and I'm not?

@crystalblur3 11 жыл бұрын

Keep it Jewish, Jon. :)

@Dijabril 5 жыл бұрын

Wait.... Where Roy and MIkey straight or what....?

@kelleyspangler7426 4 жыл бұрын

Yes

@kelleyspangler7426 4 жыл бұрын

Straight

@TheMoonwalkgurl 12 жыл бұрын

:( That's mean.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

I loved the movie, but now I'm worried that George is making his own movie based on his book. That won't be kind to Jon like the BBC one, it will make Jon look bad and George wonderful. The BBC allowed Jon to participate in the making of the movie and see the script. George in his movie won't allow that. George likes to control everything.

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

Apparently you know them personally, too. Since you said Jon is a closet and was unfaithful. How do you know that for sure? You are making assumptions too without knowing either of them.

@TheMoonwalkgurl 11 жыл бұрын

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

@SaintStavros Lots of fans do. Because that's what George told them to do. If George told fans to jump off a building, they'd do that too. George has so much power and all he has ever done is abuse it.

@TheMoonwalkgurl 12 жыл бұрын

Um.. what? o_O

@ninacipriano9836 8 жыл бұрын

One of the cruelest things you can do to another human being is to not validate them. This sadly is what Jon did to George.

@naturalkinkycurlymarie7496 6 жыл бұрын

Jon has openly spoken of the two of them to the world on several interviews, he's been validated. He says George is making the whole thing bigger than it really was. Which is frustrating to him at times. *_George needs to accept REALITY and move on like he claims he has in a 2015 Interview._* Jon made it very clear to George that he is NOT about that life. *_Jon was experimenting like a lot of people were doing back then during the punk rock club era, George is still hurt because Jon moved on with his heterosexual life and needs to stop reminiscing & living in the past. Jon was engaged to a girl before Culture Club._* Jon's been over it for 3 Decades. His actions over the past 30years prove he is actually being his true self and living his life. George is still hurt because Jon moved on with his life married a woman & had 3 children and even after their divorce years later he hooked up with his longtime girlfriend whom he even takes on Holiday skiing with his 3 kids.

@SModikoane 16 жыл бұрын

It was Jon's infidelity that led to the heroin use. And he wasn't the only one in the band with a drug problem.

@roromanos9110 8 жыл бұрын

I had such a crush on Jon he was so hot and he was my favorite member of the group, I always wanted to look if i went out with friends, I know they had a closet affair and at the time being gay was looked down and with aids made it worse, We hard time for all of us. Gay men..

@deerheart87 7 жыл бұрын

cue the very small violins dear .................

@SModikoane 16 жыл бұрын

Apparently, you know these people personally. I do not.

@crazyiguana 16 жыл бұрын

Jon had a love relationship with George for a long time and nowadays he is happily married family man. did he change his mind or what ?

@domn1c 13 жыл бұрын

The interview was enlightening...but Jon was all over the place and kinda confusing.

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

And if you don't care about Jon, why are you posting on a video of an interview with him? You don't care about Jon, fine. Go away and let us who do love him appreciate him. Why don't you just stick to the George worshiping videos of which there are thousands. Why can't Jon have one tribute without being personally attacked?

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

I agree, Buddyp. Saint Stavros, you know nothing about music. If you listen to CC records, you can hear drums are clearly being played on them. CC is not programmed techno, it's songs with live instruments. I've been to many CC concerts and Jon does play live drums very well. George himself said when he wasn't mad at Jon, that Jon is a great drummer. Are you saying George is a liar? George wanted Jon in the band because he was told Jon was a great drummer.

@fiona333 15 жыл бұрын

It's adorably eccentric to handcuff someone to a wall like an animal? And say mean horrible things about everyone. If George wasn't famous, no one would say what he does is right. He's considered eccentric because he's famous. If he was a regular person, no one would say he's allowed to act the way he does.

@fiona333 13 жыл бұрын

My fondest wish for Jon is that he could have the opportunity to go out and tour with another artist or achieve some kind of success without George. He's very kind to George and believes in George. But George never ever believes in him and always lets him down. I love Jon, but sometimes I want to slap him and tell him to wake up. Separate yourself from George and show everyone you can do something without God. You deserve someone so much better than George.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

George is the one who picks on the others. He says Jon is a horrible person and a lousy drummer. I would have never said one bad word about George if he hadn't criticized the others. George's fans pick on Jon because George criticizes Jon and they all copy George.

@fiona333 14 жыл бұрын

@Gray99 Boy George may the boss of you, but he ain't the boss me and he ain't the boss of Jon! I've seen all the interviews with both George and Jon and from I see Jon sounds much more sincere and genuine in what he says. George says one thing one week and the opposite the next. I don't think he means a word he says. Jon means what he says.

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

Wrong. George's heroin habit ruined Culture Club. George and his drug addiction destroyed the band. George is still drugging away his life and his talent to this day.

@ellioshiem7892 3 жыл бұрын

apparently he can't actually drum......

@Atreyufolife 11 жыл бұрын

hate to see what you look like

@ivyvines6708 3 жыл бұрын

;-) ;-) ;-)

@deborahscofield6738 7 жыл бұрын

Boy George says it best. "shut up Jon, shut the fuck up Jon". I watched this with an open mind. Sorry😒.

@Jene51 15 жыл бұрын

You are so incredibly wrong. Jon is a brillian man when it comes to business and music. That is to his credit and I would never say otherwise, but as far as his relationship with George, he was domineering and manipulative. He knew he could control George with love and sex, except that his love came with a price. Jon cheated on him from the start of their relationship, and if George had any sense at all he would have broken off the relationship and made it strictly business from the begining.

@fiona333 16 жыл бұрын

What a load of crap!! Yes, Jon is evil and George is perfect. How is George's life ruined? He's one of the highest paid dj's in the world and still tours. Jon doesn't. As far as I can see, Jon's life was ruined not George's. Just because George say something doesn't make it true. He lied about the drugs in New York not being his. George and Jon both made mistakes back then. The difference is George's mistakes are always forgiven, Jon's never are.