😂

😂

Yes, and they knew the idiots Jon and Dany were going to hand over on a silver platter the very thing the Night King needed to do a breach in the Wall...a dragon. These 4 heroes tried to stop all of it and all the atrocious events of the last seasons.

Lmao

How in the hell do you figure they were hero's ? The white walkers were still coming and we won.

Yea, imagine how fair it would have been if Jon didn't reanimate and the Wildlings took their revenge instead of Jon. They would have killed most of the Night's Watch.

lool it was totally unfair by natural law 😂😂😂

haha yeah

literally the plot of every video game ever.

Right, that's like totally against the rules!

Yep. Just what I was thinking. Generational hatred does nothing to heal wounds. Neither side is blameless.

I know it's over a year late but i cant get over the fact that you are separating criminals and rapists, it is very funny.

Exactly. Alliser had no love for the integrity of the watch, all he cared about was retaining power to lord it over others. He talked like he was just a necessary evil, yet always had the biggest shit-eating grin whenever bad things happened to his own men. Alliser didn’t hate Jon because he was a threat to the Watch, Alliser hated Jon because he was a threat to Alliser

Well don't forget that Ser Alliser was a knight. He just made the mistake of fighting for the Targaryens during the rebellion instead of the Usurper. After the war was over, he was given a choice between death or the night's watch, so he went north to live. And of course because he was nobility, he was better educated and trained than the criminals who he served alongside, of course he advanced through the ranks above the rest. So Alliser wasn't really being a hypocrite because he wasn't a criminal himself, not really, he just fought for his rightful king rather than the usurper and was punished for it after the war. He didn't particularly care for the thieves and murderers in the night's watch either and it's probably part of the reason why he was so cruel to most of them. And Jon Snow was the bastard of one of the two men most responsible for his own banishment. Hating him was inevitable. He had more cause to hate Jon Snow than Catelyn Stark did, and even then only hated him half as much as her.

@@TimmyMcGowan You probably voted for Trump

Ironic considering he quit immediately after this proving him wrong.

​@ThePartisan13 he spent the remainder of the series fight for other people

@@CallmeLJ700 Yeah other people, not wildling specifically.

@@ThePartisan13 - Well...except he didn't prove Ser Allister wrong. Quite the opposite. At the very end, Jon ends up with the wildlings, more or less their new leader. So he will be fighting the wildlings' battles for the rest of his life.

@@ThePartisan13 I don't think Allister was specifically talking about the freefolk.

that's being a man showing masculinity. you do it for the sake of greater good.

Which nearly caused him to lose against the torturer guy.

He also doesn’t look away.

@@sparrow3491 oh Jesus touch grass

No he didnt . At least in the show he didnt . He would have cut off all their head not hang them , also he is DEAD period. No magic bullet no red whore just death.

Jon should have stabbed that traitor through the heart. He did not deserve to speak any last words.

I wanted Jon to explain that he had lost sight of the true purpose of the Night's Watch - to protect men from the Others.

@@IrishCarney I wanted Jon to explain that as well, but it might come off as preachy, and take away from the moment. Jon might have respected the fact that Alliser was just assuming his, albeit misguided, duty to the night's watch, and Jon allowed him to keep his honor intact as a parting gift.

@@badxgrass Its ot so much that I wish the show had done it differently, it was fitting for the show the way it went down. But alliser is such a self righteous prick and it would be satisfying to either see jon explained to him and maybe at his last moments he realised but was still to stubborn to beg for mercy anyway. Or Jonn could cut his rope a second after cutting that main rope so he didnt die the first time and got through the process getting hung twice. Maybe do it multiple times and finally before the final one and only then start explaining himself to him. Again, not that ot woildve been better for the show, I just didnt like seeing him going on his own terms.

Not for me, he was really self righteous and kind of narcissistic. You almost believe he was doing what he feel is right but really he had been insecure about jon taking over his rank. People always find justifications for what they do, his pride was too much to admit he was just insecure and didnt like someone new and so young to take over, so he just went on with the bs about the nightwatchm and all.

“I’d do it again.” - Ollie

Ollie - Ye filthy wildling poon hound! I'd stab ye again if I could! 😑

and he had every reason to do so... he never got justice for his family

​@@safayethassan9193he did when he killed ygritte

​@@khalilpeterson3149he watched his whole family die by these scumbags yet people actually think tormond or ygriette are good people

esp Lyanna Stark.... LOVEDDD her

None of them are even in the Matrix what are you talking about?

Only to go back in the end. And it's weird how no lord questions his desertion when he goes looking for allies with Sansa.

@@american1207onsidering how many times Beric got resurrected I think they just got used to it

@@hexmaster23 Beric's resurrection isn't common knowledge. It's known among the brotherhood but that's really it. And the brotherhood prior to season 7 didn't operate in the north, they had no connection with any northern lords prior to meeting up with Jon at the wall. None of the northern lords should know much about Beric

@@american1207 yet at the same time countless things in the books make it so his watch was ended by the time he's murdered. Not to make minced words. His watch ended when he let the northern free folk in. Put in place by his murder and solidified as nothing other than an absolute power because he came back and held his resolve. Saving the 7 kingdoms. In my opinion he's the best and only righteous ruler. Who knows if they make the sequel with Kit. I think there is gonna be a good amount of confidence and conversation about how the Nights watch runs things.

@@american1207 also Jon isn't about to let his lineage make him. He goes back to the North to rebuild. After all he's been through that peace is welcome.

It's the old way

Like John Wick

I don't remember when did he say that in the show?

@@AM-qj9wr he kills someone at the club and then stares at his his eyes watching his soul vanish from his body

@@sybergaus no i asked about game of throne comment above, not john wick

I feel the same. Ser Alliser was a true Targaryen loyalist.

Same with Maester Aemon :(

@@sebiieex I think deep down Aemon knew... But it was not his place to do anything about it. No one would have believed him anyway.

@@Postidemoni there is no evidence that maester aemon was close to being aware. I doubt he knew.

@@sebiieex Well, I didn't mean he actually knew, as a fact. There is another way of "knowing" that is just a feel of kindred souls and spirits, not in the spiritual level, but on the level that people who are related, actually not knowing it, feel certain "drag" to each other. I speak out of experience.

"You have to. It's his only hope of reaching Valhalla."

That's quite realistic, every war has rapist, murders and on the opposite heroes. No matter which side they are on. Every side thinks they are on the right side. However war only has losers. Once we as human beings decide not to die for a mad man somewhere high in his palace then we will finally know peace.

An army without killers is no army at all.

@@Freakie1NL No no. He means they were mostly sent there BECAUSE they were murderers, rapists, bandits, general criminals.

@@Freakie1NL Then a resource war happens and humans go back to killing each other. Peace is an illusion.

You know its just a movie....

Which book mentioned thornes relationship with rbaegar. I've only read game of thrones and clash of kings. Is it in a later one?

In the books, Alliser Thorne doesn't kill Jon. He respects him, as he was chosen as a leader. In the books, Jon Snow is killed by his majordomuses, because he broke his oath - he wanted to take the wildlings and the Nights Watch and go South to kill Ramsey and save Arya (who is supposed to be held at Winterfell). It was much better in the books, as his murder has much deeper meaning; they were right to kill him, it was basically their job to assure that no commander ever wanted to use Nights Watch to engage in politics etc. In the show its just a basic "oh he bad cuz he likes wildlings".

@@KanKazable isn't it actually jeyne Poole who is held captive at winter fell by the boltons, not arya

@@johndanvers2379 Yes it is, but Jon obviously doesn’t know.

Never thought of that. He never know Jon's real family tree and never had the chance to hear it after this 🤔

I personally like "I came. I saw. I noped the eff out."

Ditto

In the books, Ned Stark actually says something along the lines of the executioner not taking pride or joy in execution.

give me that duty and i'll be very happy

God, I hope it's NEVER something to rejoice

@Mike Yeah, that was grim af

Alliser hated him and was a prick to him for no reason. Snow had enough class not to gloat about it but that dbag deserved to die.

it's funny, if i were jon, killing ollie would been a laugh.

@@idontlikehmm3146 🤣🤣🤣

Olly was a Little Shit who got what he deserved like Thorne...I'm glad he died slowly and painfully.

Ollie was a bitch and died like one, Allister was the OG.

He left because he did his duty. He died that means he is no longer bound by the oath he took.

True, but these ones don't see the bigger picture; the Wildlings are not the real threat. The White Walkers are and everyone needs to band together to stop them. Their antiquated way of thinking serves us no purpose.

No what’s crazy is knowing about the White Walkers and still thinking the old ways and old rules still matter. Despite their differences after centuries of warring you’d think at some point someone would just out of necessity try to work something out, even without the walkers. After all that time it was just the blind leading the blind.

Sure that same logic would apply to the Native Americans who were defending their land.

@@russelturner5771 I’m not sure what you mean explain

@@danielmunguia8341he saying it still going on in the real world he saying Americans butchered the natives and took all they shit and that’s why they (Americans) is where they at today globally

People need to remember that he's still very much a child and hasn't had a chance to mature and process things the way an adult can. Jon saw the writing on the wall and knew that he had to form an alliance with the Wildlings in the face of a larger threat but Ollie just couldn't process and accept that.

Most that joined the Nights Watch were criminals of some sort getting a last chance at the Wall. Ollie did nothing but lose his entire family to Wildling raiders. It would have been more just to ship him off somewhere for a second chance. Way more impactful and better writing the way it was done though. Just not really fair.

Ollie was the only one of the four to be hanged that had a chance of redemption. He was strung along by happenstance since his parents were killed, if he could be given the insights of the Lord Commander's duties like Jon was given by Jeor, he might've found solace and reluctantly agreed with Jon's decisions, however much he hated the principles that were being broken. But his presence there and the lengths he chose to go to threatens Jon's entire strategy for the survival of Westeros. He took the vows, has no family elsewhere, and will likely attempt to undermine Jon Snow if kept alive, or recruit others for another assassination attempt. Ollie had to go. Quite possibly the saddest death of them all.

I understood Ollie. Imagine you were in his shoes, living in a peaceful village and a happy life with your family. Then comes a group of people to raid, pillage, and burn your village and home. Then one of them comes to you and straight up says "we'll kill your papa and eat your mama". Like bruh, that's the type of trauma that will keep you up at night and stay with you till the day you die. Anyone would have a burning hatred for these raiders given the same situation.

He was a brainwashed in hatred which Jon could notice as being repair trait

Unless you're Scorpion. 😂

Hard to argue…not very often at all.

Fighting battles is a sign you are still alive. Resting in this life is for the dead.

He even getting a spin-off.

Battle is the most honorable thing I could think of. No sneaking around, no politics, just the brothers next to your side and the enemy ahead in a test of strength and will.

@Bebtelovimab The enemy are the ones trying to kill you or destroy what you hold dear, it’s extremely simple.

@Bebtelovimab My take? I have no side in that matter, it’s not my war so it’s not my say, it’s not even in my continent. The soldiers involved that fight valiantly and die (on either side) are honorable. The politicians that hide behind their golden walls and palaces are not.

He's not malicious but he will do what he thinks needs to be done

@@TheFatAmericans1 He was absolutely a malicious bully of a man. He had a sense of honor once he was defeated but being a stubborn asshole isn't a virtue.

excellent villain, flawed but human and common in real life. nuanced.

The biggest irony is that he was sent to the wall for being a Targaryen loyalist, and he unknowingly gave such a hard time to Rhaegar's last surviving heir.

You don't gotta like him but you gotta respect the conviction.

The fact that people were happy about Olly being hanged makes me worry for the future of humanity.

@@Jagonath well it’s show, if this was a real situation with real people I’m sure people would feel differently, and sympathize with Ollie and be sadden by his death. But as a fictional show, fuck Ollie, he killed my nigga Jon.

​@@Jagonath he deserved to be live bet for dogs

I thought his acting was terrible. He looked like a kid trying to look angry in a really silly stereotypical way.

​@@MajinLordVegeta jon snow is bitch made like vader.

Honestly that was one of the things each stark family member said, ‘we should have never left Winterfell’

I think there is a reason for "it must always be a Stark on Winterfell" There is no proof or confirmation for it but I guess that was the key point for the night king to be able to resurect the deaths under Winterfell... Maybe even one puzzle piece to torre the wall...

He's not a stark.

@@MauiWowieOwie well he still has stark blood running through his veins, keep in mind that there is one major plot line that was removed. Robb Stark actually named Jon Snow his heir before the events of the Red Wedding

@@sullyrulezz3191 - True, but he is a half-Stark and half-Tagaryen. I would say he is the heir to the entire kingdoms of the North and South.

He is by far the worst.Pathetic

Yeah, you're not getting that. 🖕

I mean when you are already standing there with the knot around your neck, you know begging won’t do anything anymore

@@annali5017 men still beg, though.

He literally begged Jon to lie about the circumstances of his death.

And it’s Kit did a great job acting in this moment. There’s so many different emotions going on inside him

@@nigeltan397 Do you imagine you yourself would be so brave in the shadow of the valley of death?

@Nigel Tan mate your name is Nigel. You'd probably cry and shit yourself before even being hanged

@@flightevolution8132 there's short line between bravery and stupidity.

he stood strong on his bitterness, Jealousy and unwarranted hatred of snow. this was by no means about his principles he was just that bitter of a person to die like that his ego kept him from showing fear.

His head didn't remain high when Jon cut the rope.

The Nights Watch was made to defend against the Wight Walkers which were ready to exterminate/assimilate anything that lives. I can’t speak much for the wildlings but a reason why they raid was out of fear and desperation to get as far south as possible. Poorly executed of course since they do it violently but still. You’d think with an army of undead ice zombies numbering in the 100k range would open their eyes a little. They made their choice as fools, they die as fools. The only reason Jon hesitated was cause olly was hanged. Book Jon wouldn’t flinch

@@z-man1237 Goddamn right

I feel like Jon should’ve brought them to Hardhome. If they saw the White Walkers, they will realize that the Nights Watch and the Wall wasn’t built to stop the Wildings.

Well to be fair Janos Slynt killed more babies than Planned Parenthood

@@gidmichigan1765 It’s likely that they already knew about them. LC Mormont, Qorhin halfhand, Maester Aemon, and hell even Stannis knew about them and they likely told some of the few veterans of the Watch they probably wouldn’t listen regardless and just left the Wildlings to die due to the millennia of bad blood. I agree that getting one from Hardhome would help, but due to them being under a full assault and focusing more on evacuation they probably didn’t have the time or patience either. They should’ve just killed the traitors like Alliser and leave them outside the wall to come back as wights for proof instead

". . .My watch has ended."

Lol?

@@martiedoherty5765 Lol, indeed.

I knew he’d do it. As much as he didn’t want to, he follows through with what he says. The only time he lied was to the wildlings to survive when he was captured.

He did it with lord janas too lol

I'm surprised half the watch didn't immediately go lineup in front of Melisandre as Jon was walking out, and ask her to do the same so they can do that as well!

@@tren133 LOL! I don't think that is how it works. She is given a message from the god of light. Then that god's power is used. She is basically a vessel, in which the god uses to fullfill its wishes. So, they might not come back from death.

If his oath was gone when he died, doesn't that mean he was no longer the Lord Commander once he was resurrected? Which would mean that he didn't have the authority to hang those men, and he's now a murderer?

@@dustinlain6772 You are conflating 2 things. The vow and the title. He died, the vow was fullfilled. The title never leaves a dead body, which is why soldiers are buried with their name and status. They still retain the status as former. Now, when he was brought back to life, the men of the keep still called him Commander, which means he is still in charge because the men say he is. His vow was removed when he died.

@@cainabel6356 Or more specifically, the had not appointed a NEW Lord Commander yet; if there was a new Lord Commander, it would be trickier. But as the position was vacant, oh, wait, the old one got better, welp, he's back in the corner office. (It'd be roughly the same as if the LC was lost but then found.)

It's because the rangers had been killing wildlings for years. Raiding their villages and raping their women... I'd probably have felt vindicated a bit here if I were them.

Raven from King's Landing: Citation?

Same here :) I live in Estonia

It's called long hair.

​@@SeviathTheHumanDrago does your long hair hang down over your face, or do you wear a balaclava?

God save Russia!

They're used to the cold

Exactly. And at the time, people were cheering for his death. Some people are just so stupid.

​@@JagonathOlly hating the wildlings and the people hating Olly have the exact same problem. Neither side is better than the other, so propping either side up is wrong lol.

@@Kevinopilous Well, yes. The scene is supposed to be ambiguous, but people cheering on a child execution is a bit much. Couldn't they just made Olly take the black? Guess not :)

@@Jagonath I feel like Jon didn't even want to kill them tbh, but the problem is with the looming threat of the white walkers, what do you do with a group of mutineers? I thought too why not just kick them out, but they legit thought they were right so they'd come back for the honor of the watch or whatever the fuck. You logically can't just leave a weakness like that exposed when you're dealing with the end of the world white walker style cause then more kids would wind up dying worse than Olly did. And in the end, they were wrong because they needed the wildlings to fight back. If they got their way, they would have fought back with their hurt feelings alone and doomed the rest of the world 😭

@@Jagonath He had already taken the black I'm pretty sure. Anyways I don't think anyone's cheering for Olly's death, they just view it as tragically necessary. Most people find Olly's perspective quite understandable and sympathize with him, but they can't just have a treasonous, murderous kid full of hatred walking around freely..

or the wildlings that knew about them and did nothing for 100 years.

​@Dennis webb well, it doesn't help that everytime someone travels down south of the wall you're being hunted down before you can say anything.

I think one of the overriding arcs and tragedies was that no-one was able to reconcile their differences for the most part in this whole story in a way that benefited the greater good. The Great Houses that decimated each other in wars of succession while in the knowledge that winter was eventually coming, had forgotten what that even meant, as too much time had passed. They all eventually lost and squandered any real meaning of the real threat, beyond the words of an old House that was purported to be the ancestors of the First Men, in spite of an entire order that was supposed to preserve knowledge and pass it on. This is true of the Night's Watch. They became dilapidated and ineffectual as a byproduct of this over the many years that had passed to allow the lawlessness of the wildlings to prevail and prosper. To the point of becoming the threat that they eventually became as part of cause and effect. I suppose that when true knowledge is lost over time, only the human condition and machiavellian concepts remain, unchecked, with the consequences that it ultimately brings.

Well Jon getting killed in the books is under totally different circumstances, and actually justified by the laws of the night's watch. Jon told them all that they were going to march on Winterfell to kill Ramsay Bolton, which violates the code of the night's watch that says they do not take part in the politics of westeros. And in the books, abandoning the rules of the night's watch is typically a death sentence, especially for something that would bring ruin to the entire watch. The show just had to make up some BS reason to loosely follow the same general events because they had already deviated on many important details.

The issue wasnt that he sided with the wildlings moreso than he didnt actually come back with proof that the dead were doing the deeds. Like most of the people, they needed proof and still hung in to the idea of not helping during that dark battle. Cant really blame the 4 of them for backstabbing jon due to the vows and what the wildlings have done to people before the news of undead. At least Thorne took his responsibility like a G

What is name of movie

@@keithmelvin4730this is from a show called Game of Thrones.

I remember being confused by this music ngl. By now I had realised I should relate the music to the characters, and when I heard the Targaryen theme I immediately felt uncomfortable. I guess that worked with the scene lol.

Play Bloodborne my friend

That’s crazy good catch

The first six season of this show are masterclass television. So many episodes from those six seasons had me on the edge of my seat from start to finish!

@@Howlingburd19 I couldnt agree more

Feeling for fictional characters is probably among the most human traits there are. I mean, ther are heaps of millions of people out there, supposedly real, who you'll never meet and will never know anything about; they might as well be fictional. These fictional characters though, at least we know them a little bit.

same, that and his incredible sword skills

As far as I’m concerned, it ended with Season 6. The “KING OF THE NORTH” scene was too epic ❤️

No the british colonialist

Nigeria wasn't a peaceful place before they showed up. University of Lagos really doesn't do a good job of educating you people.@@kamalope8458

Thanks, Ollie.

Lawl.

All four seasons of House of the Dragon will be done and you'll still be able to make this comment!

@@novacancy5806 I decided after season 8 that I wouldn't watch or read anything else by GRRM until he finishes ASOIAF. If that means I miss out on house of the dragon, then so be it. If he does without finishing it, I'm going to burn the books I currently own. And block everything on KZfaq that references the show.

@Falcrist he's going to drop dead any day now man.

@@novacancy5806 My great great great grandkids will be able to say this

@@Falcrist I understand what your saying but House of the Dragon is a finished book series. At least they'll have a ending that's somewhat like the book.

Yes i get why ollie stabbed him but killing him that's cruel

@@aishahamma334 "That's cruel' uhm what? Ollie's family got eaten by cannibals and Jon made friends with them (the specific cannibals were dead by then, but I doubt a child would know the difference).

I can understand it. The free folk killed his family and he could never forgive them for it

@@thewestisthebest6608 not free folk. Thenns did it

​@@N1k4_Gr1v who are also free folk

@@N1k4_Gr1v His parents were killed by Jon's girlfriend by arrows, she's not a thenn lol

5ever young

Strangalation? It does not take that long for someone to die from that. You sufficate. Now if it is higher drop, it would break your neck, but sometimes you will get strangled.

You should've known she was crazy this whole time! You just didn't notice because the people she was executing deserved it... wait what?

The way the wildlings accepted him made absolutely no sense.

@@Likexner why wouldn’t they? He literally went out of his way as lord commander to go round up wildlings with only a few fellow brothers. He put trust into the establishment and in return the wildlings had his back. He also put the wildings into the wall and made the nights watch essentially a mix of crows and wildling, plus it helps that he’s friends with tormond 😅

@@Likexner Wildlings don’t care for the empty rhetoric that Westeros is plagued by, they only care about action. Jon risked and frankly gave up everything when he had finally earned the position and accolades he deserved. Why wouldn’t they respect that? The wildlings don’t magically trust the rest of the southerners, they just trust Jon cause he walked the walk.

Uh oh did Aemon also say "embrace the man"? Boom shakalakka

At some point, what can you do? You're gonna die, no amount of pleading or begging is gonna make it stop. I think it kinda forces people into a strange calm instead.

The boy's stare says: "I hate your guts that you came back to execute me."

@@cainabel6356 I would have flipped him off.

@@christophercipriano2314 Yeah, I would too. LOL!

@@cainabel6356 xD

Seasons 1-4 and 6 were good. 5 went off the rails a fair bit. 7 and 8 were a huge disappointment.

@@MrHarumakiSensei 5 was great, what do you mean? There were a couple cringey pieces of dialogue, other than that I had very few criticisms, much like the rest of 1-6 GoT.

With the way S8 ended and the blowback it got, I wonder if GRRM will make some tweaks cause I personally don’t know anyone who liked the ending. Of course not holding my breath to find out tho 😂

@@thebananas6483 They killed off Barristan Selmy for no good reason. He had lots of cool stuff yet to do in the books which they could have used when they were starved for good content in later series.

@@RH126B It wasn't really what happened, it was more like how it happened. Unlike everything in the books, the final events were set up very poorly.

He trusts them because he has no other choice, with that massive zombie army coming from the north. He needs all ressources against the Night King.

@@abraham2172 GRRM just loves forcing characters (and by extension readers) to make unpleasant choices and select the lesser of two evils.

​@@IrishCarney yep thats why I love ASOIAF

@@IrishCarney To be fair, I think a lot of that is because it's far more true-to-life than many stores that have been written. Rarely is it that there is a choice, obvious in the moment as the right choice and clean without negative consequences. Far more often it is messy and some level of carnage results regardless of the decision made.

@@IrishCarney - Alright, you have a undead army, lead by an udead Lich King. The Lich King wants to kill every living thing and make the bodies undead. I would say I would have to choose every able hand I could get to make sure we could win against an Lich King that can call forth the undead to fight for him. If those able hands betray me, I would show no mercy to them.

The momentum went too fast and crashed, in the show

The last two seasons are written better than this.

It was literally fans like you that ruined the show. After season 4, the show coasted off fan service to smooth brained viewers.

Sarcasm?

Are you sure about that? If they are not getting any air, meaning their breathing tube is completely cut off, it would take 3 to 6 minutes. You forget they would pass out for not having enough oxygen. Then they would not have any oxygen moving towards the brain, and be brain dead.

They ate his momma. I mean c'mon kid had legit reasons to have those feels.

Not all Wildlings killed his parents and village. For all we know, those wildlings died. Also, they live in an era of conquerers. I am sure the wildlings were attacked multiple times before. So.....

Tormund was part of the attack and he didn't died

@@cainabel6356 ah yes. Don't worry kid, we live in an era of conquerors so me eating the flesh of your parents after I brutally murder them is the cultural norm. No reason to feel bitter hatred against my kin. Also #notallwildlings #dragonfuelcannotmelticewalls

The problem with Olly is, on "some" level sort of John's fault, he had a chance to convince Olly and turn his opinion around but a subtle but key trait of John is he utter ass when it comes to charisma...which is why he failed to convince Olly which in turn lead to Olly siding with those who killed John. Take a look at some of John's moments later on, and you realize when it comes to public speaking he often ends up having to rely on others to do the speaking on his behalf. He is idealistic and noble to a fault which is often why people are willing to speak on his behalf...but speaking is not his strong suit...at all.