Jonathan. Son of South Lebanese Army Officer

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11 жыл бұрын

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Want to know what Israelis and Palestinians in the Middle East really think about the conflict? Ask a question and I will get answers.

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@michaelalexander3078 8 жыл бұрын

Khayen ibn khayen.

@serge_raphael 6 жыл бұрын

Michael Alexander ليش لأنو كان بدو مساعدة؟!!

@eliejabbour8827 3 жыл бұрын

Lkouwana hene li t3amalo ma3 lsouriye wl falastiniye dod 2ekhwetoun bl watan...

@fatimasaksouk Жыл бұрын

@@eliejabbour8827 مين اللي جاب السوري ع لبنان؟

@fatimasaksouk Жыл бұрын

@@eliejabbour8827 انا رح قلك، المسيحيين

@WazeAngel 11 жыл бұрын

According to a study, 30% of the Lebanese people hold Phoenician genes, regardless of religion, so it's not only about the Christian Lebanese. But I think most Lebanese people consider themselves arabs because we speak arabic (the language is the first thing that links us to a national identity) in Lebanon, so there shouldn't be any debate. I think there are a lot of people in Israel who have european genes, not only jewish, and they do consider themselves Jewish, right? (sorry for my english)

@patrickkhachab 3 жыл бұрын

do you have a link that states that 30% of lebanese are phoenicians?

@davids4106 3 жыл бұрын

Phoenicians spoke Hebrew and were more advanced than the Hizb zballah.

@fatimasaksouk Жыл бұрын

@@davids4106 Phoenicians spoke aramic

@fatimasaksouk Жыл бұрын

@@patrickkhachab most lebanese Christians are syriac

@menahemamir4770 Жыл бұрын

@@fatimasaksouk actually Aramaic is a closely related language to Hebrew . They spoke something in between Hebrew and Aramaic to be precise and they would have been mutually intelligible with the Israelites. What's for sure is that Arabs didn't reach Lebanon for many centuries after that .

@dmitriymbk2811 11 жыл бұрын

Most israeli jews aren't ashkenazi.

@WazeAngel 11 жыл бұрын

The lebanese civil war was the darkest page of our history. Palestinians have committed horrific crimes against the christian community in Lebanon, but let's not forget that christian militias have also their part of responsability (Sabra and Chatila for example). A war is never completely black/white. Most of the time it's grey and criminals on both camps are not particular about who they kill.

@akragas4394 Жыл бұрын

Didn't the PLO harrass Shia's communities as well to the point they welcomed the Israeli army when they invaded Lebanon ?

@nomylearnspalestine Ай бұрын

@@akragas4394 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

@nomylearnspalestine Ай бұрын

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

@tgm_rka8888 Ай бұрын

Don’t the Lebanese Christian’s hate Israel?

@vivaldish7415 11 күн бұрын

@@akragas4394yeah but not all, most were against israel because israel was worse than the PLO by miles.

@CoreyGilShusterAskProject 11 жыл бұрын

Thanks :)

@schmickaussie1038 3 жыл бұрын

What a great human being. It's too bad that Lebanon had lost their Christian majority population. Lebanon is currently suffering because Hezbollah has control and people of talent and free thinking don't feel safe there.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

I live in America but have relatives in Israel, my family came from Soviet Union, my open mindness has nothing to do with nationality in any case. Yeah, it's a pleasure to get into open minded discussions, have had too many with people who don't even bother to answer my questions and just throw conspiracy theories at me ( last week with some Black Hebrews lol). Its a pleasure, where are you from ?

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "When Maimonides escaped Almohids, he chose to live under another Muslim realm in Egypt. " Given his druthers, and if such an option was available to him, it's far more likely RaMbaM would have preferred to live under sovereign Jewish rule in the Land of Israel. I recognize everything is in context and accept that on the whole, life was better for Jews under Muslims than it was under Christians in the Middle Ages.But anti-Zionist polemicists paint a too-rosy picture as part of their apologia.

@888snuffy 6 жыл бұрын

Long live Lebanon and Israel.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

I totally agree with you on this point.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "Bnei Barak and Beit Shemesh but on a larger scale. " The haredim in Bnei Berak and Beit Shemesh CHOOSE to live under those strictures. The government doesn't force them.

@WazeAngel 11 жыл бұрын

Why is there a cedar tree in your star of David?

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Since you mentioned DNA, genetic research has confirmed ancestral links between most Diaspora Jewish communities. In a very real sense, an Ashkenazi Jew whose family lived in Chișinău, Moldova (formerly known as Kishinev by its former Russian and Soviet rulers) is more of a close kinsman to a Jew whose grandparents lived in Bagdhad. The Ashkenazi of Kishinev certainly has more common ancestry with the Baghdadi Jew than with the Moldvovan (Romanian) non-Jew.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "Tell me more about “Bosnian” Pal families." The surname Bushnak is common among Arab citizens of Israel in and around Qesarya and among Palestinian Arabs in Shekhem (Nablus), Tulkarm, etc...these people are descended from Muslims who came to the Ottoman Empire from the Balkans in the late 19th century. Today there are many Boshnaks who claim a Palestinian Arab identity, having lost their Slavic roots and customs. Some of my ancestors were in Safad and Tiberias at least in the 1500s.

@Lagolop 11 жыл бұрын

If not specifically for the Jews, there would not be a shred of Judaeo-Chrisitan presence in the entire region.

@CoreyGilShusterAskProject 11 жыл бұрын

I have heard of attempts to revive Aramaic language in Israel, Syria and Lebanon.

@VALDIGNE 4 жыл бұрын

Please make more videos about South Lebanese army in Israel.

@nancymatar2274 3 жыл бұрын

@@VALDIGNE i am from south lebanon

@eliasromano2847 11 жыл бұрын

Fascinating. Thanks so much Corey, what you do is so interesting

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

In other words, as long as they accepted unequal status and didn't reject being pets, they could almost live unmolested, but without full dignity. And protections that may have theoretically existed in the Pact of Umar could disappear instantaneously and mattered little to a frenzied mob. Anti-Jewish riots in various Muslim occurred intermittently over the centuries. These are documented by Jews and non-Jews.

@Smil7001 11 жыл бұрын

I don't think you can trace "phonician genes"...what study would this be? The only study I found showed that there are clear signs of genetic differences between the Muslim and Christian communities which would make sense historically.

@nadimlawandos6063 4 жыл бұрын

You can take a phoenician DNA test in the american university of Beirut AUB so yes you can trace phoenician genes...

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "but never really created “their own genuine” culture" Jews in Middle Eastern countries had their own unique dialects (often Arabic- or Fasi-based with an admixture of Hebrew and Aramaic), kind of like the Yiddish or Ladino that Ashkenazim and Sefaradim had. Yemenite Jews had their own traditions of Hebrew poetry (Shalom Shabazzi), Jews in Baghdad had their own unique traditions that differed from those of Muslims and Christians.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Tanzimat were the Ottoman reforms of the 19th century. You mentioned how a Beth Din had autonomy over Jews under the Ottomans. Yes, in terms of intracommunal disputes, marriage, divorce, etc. But not in disputes between Muslims and Jews. A Muslim always had the advantage under Sharia law.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

the Gospel and Quran came out in a time where we have much secular records from the Romans, Persians, etc. and don't mention these texts until at least a century later, whilst the Torah was given in prehistoric times, with the exception of random Egyptian hyrographs, and even amongst secular scholars there is much chronological debate (some say the 19th dynasty of Egypt was in 1500 BCE some say in 800 BCE, so go figure).

@mashkanyc Ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing your story

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Reality shows us that the in 1948/49 every part of the former British Mandate of Palestine west of the Jordan River that fell to Arab forces was totally expunged of its Jewish population. Yes, Arabs fled and even were expelled in some cases from what became Israel, but 100,000 remained (1 million plus today)after the armistice agreements were signed, there were zero Jews left in the Jordanian-ruled West Bank between 1949-1967.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "You're risking your own self-determination (which you ALREADY have) by taking it away from Pals" Oh, come on. Palestinian Arabs have had the opportunity for self-determination since November 1947. They've repeatedly been offered deals which they constantly reject. As it stands now, they can get something approximating the 1949-1967 armistice line borders (almost but not quite) that existed between Jordan and Israel, but because of their obduracy they repeatedly miss opportunities.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

A Jewish (and Mizrahi) historian that you should read is Bat Ye'or. Maybe then you would have a better grip on what life was like from a "Dhimmi" perspective.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

I havent read the whole discussion, but just want to point out that every scholarly work is based on citations of previous works in addition to original thought. That is perfectly normal and open minded. The Muslims and Jews have a very similar theology as they are both monotheistic, thus in limited matters the Jewish theologians freely quoted them in regards to philosophy.

@Hammurubai 11 жыл бұрын

So the Christian Lebanese people see themselves as indigenously Phoenician/Syriac. rather than Arab; not just the politicians? I was never sure about that. Do you know if there has ever been an effort to revive the Aramaic language in Lebanon that same way as Hebrew was? Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that if that goal was pursued, Lebanon would have had a strong identity binding it together and the country could have avoided the endless horrors it went through.

@VALDIGNE 6 жыл бұрын

everyone from Northern Syria down to Israel/Palestine is Phoenician.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

And like you said in earlier comment, there is obviously a subconscious bias we all have in religion. The same secular scholars will say the New Testament was not written until a century later (which I too believe) and the Torah was written anywhere between 1000 BCE and 500 BCE (traditional Judaism, and I assume Christ and Islam(which says text was altered), say 1200 BCE). But for me, the major difference between these scholarly assesitions between the Torah vs the Gospel or Quran is that

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

The Mitzvot Bnai Noach deal with a theological concepts of reward and punishment for those not included in the covenant and were never applied in practice in terms of rights and duties of non-Jewish citizens of a halakhic Jewish state.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

My current stance (as if my stance matters lol, but hey its a discussion) on the authorship of the Quran is that it may or may not have been written by Muhamed, or partially written by Muhamed and edited by later generations such as Omar, Ali, etc. Not to mention the hadiths. But in either way, it has done a great job to bring morality to much of mankind

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Right, and those 613 laws deal mostly with ritual obligations. "Dos" and "don'ts." The TANAKH also prescribed a kind of resident alien status for non-Jews living under a Jewish government with the "ger toshav" category, which was pretty enlightened for the Bronze Age. Since few advocate for non-Jews in a halakhic Israel to be classified that way, and none of those who do are taken seriously, what is the relevance? People do, however, call for reimposition of Dhimma in Muslim-dominated countries

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

I don't know Arabic so I can't say much, but end of the day, there are many majestically written religious texts such as the Torah, Prophets, Psalms, Gospel, Quran, Aveda, Kama Sutra, etc... To believe in one religion or another, one will have to end up rejecting most of them despite their majestic writing style and settle with one (or several if they don't contradict each other which is why I will never accept the New Testament as a Jew because it contradicts the "Old" one)

@LukaKarra 3 ай бұрын

I know Johnathan! I am Maronite from Jish. 🇮🇱

@nomylearnspalestine Ай бұрын

Jish is a Palestinian town, why are you acting like a zio jew!?

@LukaKarra Ай бұрын

@@nomylearnspalestine الجش هي إسرائيل ونحن الموارنة نفتخر بذلك. تغتصبون وتذبحون إخوتنا في الدامور وتتفاجأون برفضنا لكم؟

@JW177 16 күн бұрын

@@nomylearnspalestinekeyboard angry woke warrior detected; get a life .

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Well according to the movie Omar ibn Khatab Mohamed, or was it Omar, travelled to Damascus. But either way, there were plenty of Jews in the Arabian peninsula. The Himyarite Kingdom in Yemen was actually full of Arabian converts to Judaism, including the royal family. The Ghassanid Empire was Christian. Mecca, although pagan, was en route Yemen to Palestine and had many Jews and Chrsitians from at least the fifth century onwards. It is highly unlikely Muhamed or any Meccan would be unfamiliar

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but at the end of the day Jews are Jews. I am Ashkenazi from Soviet Union, and from my personal experiences, despite the fact that my family has sojourned in that part of the world, other than potatos and forced adoption of Russian as an official language, we have very little culturally in common with Slavs. Our music, our food, our language, our religion, our looks, our everything was entirely different and in many ways similar to Middle East whey before the advent of Zionism.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if the Torah-Talmud analogy however, is a good analogy for Quran-Hadith, but it is a starting point. The verses of the Torah, often ambiguous, are expounded upon in the Talmud and other Midrashim. Just like many liberal or heterodox Muslims may be quick to dismiss the Hadith for a more literal interpretation of the Quran to suit their agenda, so too, the Jews that dismiss the Talmud are seeking the liberty to interpret the Torah to fit their agenda.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

ies and realize that in every sect or regional group there has been a lot of external influences and to not use those differences to discriminate and claim "hey my culture is more Biblical than yours" (although this might be implicitly true by Mizrahim since they remained in the Middle East and thus had similar diet and agriculture). So, such claims are disturbing not just to Arabs but to Jews as well.

@CoreyGilShusterAskProject 11 жыл бұрын

This sectarian mentality is really important to you guys I see. Isn't it a waste of energy? You are judging some guy in a video based on the acts of his father. The Middle East is beyond screwed up and hopeless.

@VALDIGNE 6 жыл бұрын

could you please interview the Hezbollah who became a Rabbi ?

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the reason why I pride so much in my Jewish faith is that in essence in stems from prehistoric times and open miracles vs. the other faiths stem from epochs of recorded history thus provide more conflict and were not based on open miracles. But that's just my opinion

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

with Christianity or Judaism by that time, when they were both common religions in Arabia. Not to mention the fact that half the civilized world was ruled by the Byzantines,who were fanatic Christians, and the Aksum kingdom in Ethiopia. There was a lot of trade, plus as I said, Arabia itself was full of Christians and Jews.

@secallen 11 жыл бұрын

Corey, thank you, you are doing excellent work.

@SheetsJable 11 жыл бұрын

Great channel Corey! And loved hearing this young man's story!

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

As for your contention that whatever violence against Mizrahi Jews occurred only because of "what their Ashkenazi counterparts were committing in Palestine", stop the nonsense. The Fascist-inspired Farhoud pogrom against Jews in Baghdad was in 1941, 7 years before Israeli independence. The 1929 riots against Jews in Hebron and Jerusalem were directed against all Jews, not just Ashkenazi Jews. And please remember, Mizrahi Jews also built Israeli society. Zionism is not an Ashkenazi project .

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

That's why I'm skeptical about Muslims telling me there are letters about Muhamed. Although I don't think any serious scholar would question Muhamed's existence (he united all of Arabia and was a keen military leader, while Jesus is more of a myth outgrown of ancient pagan theology of the death and rebirth of deities), scholars could question whether the Quran was directly written by Muhamed or not.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

" honestly wonder if Israelis ever read their own credit historians' takes (most of whom are Mizrahis) on Judeo-Islamic history. Because if you guys do, you will chill your beans a bit." Again, I clearly wrote that the Islamic system extended RELATIVELY more tolerance to non-Muslim minorities than the Christian system extended to non-Christian minorities in an era that was marked by intolerance. Nevertheless, this is not relevant for the 21st century and modern society.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "Ottoman archives record more cases brought by non-Muslim to Sharia courts than those brought by them to Beth Dins and Church courts. Why would they do that if Sharia gives the Muslim the upper hand in courts specifically?" You're talking as if a Beth Din had jurisdiction over Muslims. Could a Jew bring suit against a Muslim in a rabbinical court? What option did they have other than to use a Muslim venue in a civil case?

@princehmg 7 жыл бұрын

well there were Christians in lebanon before Israel was created and there will be so long as there is Lebanon

@stupidface454 7 жыл бұрын

Of course there were. They were persecuted for being Christians in Lebanon in the early 70's.

@semsemeini7905 6 жыл бұрын

Most of them are now in Montreal, Paris, Abidjan, Geneva.

@mashkanyc Ай бұрын

And New York lol video was 11 years ago, comment was 7 years ago… wonder in 5-10 years when other comments follow up and we ‘ll eventually get to “last Christian family left in Lebanon” comment

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Correcting my error--Shohat and Shenhav aren't historians--Shenhav is a sociologist/polemicist and a Shohat is essentially a movie critic/polemicist. Right-wing Zionist polemicists can be guilty of exaggerating the misery of Jews in the Muslim/Arab world, but good scholars like Lewis (who is very pro-Zionist) say it like it was.They acknowledge that Jews had it somewhat better under Islam than in Xtian Europe in the medieval period most of the time, but they don't paint it as a paradise either.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Well as a believing Torah Jew, I accept both the Written and Oral Law. When Moshe spent 40 days on Sinai he wasn't just God's scribe to write down stories about Abraham lol, he got a whole lot of information which was transmitted, of which the basic ideas came down to the Mishnah and Talmud. The Talmud is a very intellectual work and people that dismiss it have weak concepts of Judaism.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "and is not practiced anywhere. " Elements of Dhimma has been recodified into the laws of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Hamas promises to base its hoped-for Islamic State on Sharia. Those who advocate for a binational state in "Palestine" must realize that a state wherein Jews are a minority (assuming they are even allowed to stay) may result in Hamas or other Islamist movements taking over in a one-man, one-vote, one-time scenario, in which imposition of Dhimma will happen.

@Lagolop 11 жыл бұрын

Good ...

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "Dhimma is INDEED not relevant anymore...YET, Zionists can't stop abusing it today. " It's necessary to explore the history of Dhimma because of those who abuse history by banging on about how Jews enjoyed a great privileged status under Islam and remind modern people that ahl al dhimma were NOT equals to Muslims.

@ayubtube5513 3 жыл бұрын

My great grandfather was a christian from south lebanon , it was still ottoman empire at the time but they had a distinct identity and culture that was rich.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

If Muslims choose to believe the Quran is written by God (even though I thought the angel Gabriel gave it to Muhamed, so where God comes in, I'm not sure, please explain, with all due respect), they cannot use that as a historical argument, or rather, to negate the historical interaction between Jewish and Christian missionaries in Arabia during the pre-Islamic era.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's interesting, because I had an entirely different concept of what prophecy is from my religion. But religion is religion so never mind. This conversation has a more historical tinge, but I am open to speak about this, your call.

@tomytoma4280 5 жыл бұрын

eeeh and we eeeh and they eeeeh, Good education in Israel, eeeh.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

It's not that we're trying to explain how Muhamed wrote the Quran, it's that we look at Islam as a natural historical (not just divinical) outgrowth of Judaism and Christianity, the logical consequence. We don't even neccesarily believe Muhamed wrote the Quran, but that it was written a few decades or as much as a century after his death, after much interaction with the Christians. Islam took the universal message of Christianity, the strict monotheism of Judaism, and put it together.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Yeah it's always a pleasure. I'm not quite sure where the discussion of the authorship of the Quran will lead though, but in either case, I never suggested it was written centuries after, but maybe a few decades. In either case, it is not my area of expertise so I will not be able to defend my case. But as regards to the "Persian records" - a)I'm not sure what you're referring to, b) Rings a bell to all the Christian pseudo-archeology of "letters about Jesus" that no modern scholarship supports

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know but my point is - exactly! Much of the Islamic religion even according to Muslims does not stem from the Quran but the hadith, even such basics as praying 5 times a day is not explicitly stated in the Quran. In Judaism, we also have our "hadith" known as the Talmud, which we believe the basic ideas (not word per word) were transmitted all the way from God to Moses, so for us it is just as divine as the Torah

@davids4106 3 жыл бұрын

In fact they even copied that from Judaism. Adding 5 times to be more than the 3 times the Jews do.

@dianezaarour8672 3 жыл бұрын

Hope one day SLA will return to Lebanon and Lebanese Jews to return also

@osher87 3 жыл бұрын

Could be nice open borders and goods. Lebanon will get better only if Hezbollah is gone.

@tgm_rka8888 Ай бұрын

@@osher87the world would be great if it wasn’t controlled by yahud

@osher87 Ай бұрын

@@tgm_rka8888 It would be great without people like you who actually hate instead of live together and prosper, you are part of the problem, not us.

@tgm_rka8888 Ай бұрын

@@osher87 yes I hate people like George soros correct

@tgm_rka8888 Ай бұрын

@@osher87 yes I am against people like George soros correct

@tomabogdan2496 8 жыл бұрын

ehh hmm eeehh hmmm ehhh ship ship !! :))

@Seanus32 11 жыл бұрын

but that's powerful ancestry, no?

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Well obviously to make such a broad statement like that is uncorrect. As far as the culture goes, I'm sure the Jews of the Arab lands adopted a lot of the local customs, dress, and cuisine, as did the Jews in the European lands, respectively (most famous example was Rabbeinu Gershom's ban on polygamy for European Jews in the 11th century, and the cuisine although obviously kosher did include a lot of potatoes no duh, make the analogy to Mizrahi Jews).

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

These so-called "Russians", "Yemenis" and "Ethiopians" were by and large excluded from the societies in which they lived in Diaspora from their original homeland for centuries, and their culture and history differed from the people they lived among.

@adamblanche7815 10 жыл бұрын

OFTEN SHOT AT BY HIS FATHERS SLA ARMY FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHILE I WAS A UN SOLDIER IN SOUTH LEBANON...THE AMAL WERE NO ANGELS EITHER...THE ISRAELI ARMY KEPT IT ALL GOING...COMPLETE MESS

@daves465 10 жыл бұрын

If you guys would have done your job, and that is to keep the peace in south Lebanon (if you might have forgotten), then there was no need for Israel to invade Lebanon and do your job. The SLA wouldn't have been formed, and you wouldn't have been shot at. But it's easier to blame Israel for the mess. You guys just sat idly by when Hezbollah lobed rockets at north Israel, or when they kidnapped and killed 2 Israeli soldiers from within Israeli borders, or when the Lebanese Christians got slaughtered by their Muslim "brothers". If you guys would have done your job, and not sit on the sidelines with your thumb up your asses, then there wouldn't be a "mess" to deal with.

@nir31isback 10 жыл бұрын

daves465 the SLA was formed by Lebanese army battalions joining Israel with consent of Lebanese government to protect their local communities from Palestinians aggression during the civil war. Although general lahad was Christian most of the SLA soldiers were Shia Muslims armed and trained by Israel. For many years Lebanese governments continued to pay SLA salaries

@saddambinladen3031 9 жыл бұрын

yep. my uncle was kidnapped and tortured by the sla, it was only because my other uncle was a christian friendly politician that they released him a week later. amal on the other hand is just another instantiation of jew-esque shia subversion of their host populations.

@nir31isback 9 жыл бұрын

Ahmed Issa i wish i could find the ARTE documentary about the civil war on youtube. Two Christian brothers were interviewed on top of an hill blaming all the horrors, killing problems hate etc on Israel. One of the brothers was asked about him murdering a 5 years old Palestinian kid from his village and his answer was? "This ia history". "Thia is history" sums up your mentality. 100% hypocrisy. Everybody knows about Sabra and Shatila massacre. Other massacres even more deadly during the civil war are unkown. Why? What was the difference? In all those massacres including sabra and shatila Arabs killed other Arabs. Only during the sabra and shatila massacre israel was around to be blamed. Everything by you is pretending lies and hypocrisy. Jews are to be blamed for everything. But asked about actual killing "this is history". Christians were not pro Israel. They just used Israel hoping it will kick Syria and plo and bring bashir jumayel to power on a false promise of peace treaty. Christians in lebanon are arabs like you. Don't blame jews for your problems. Israel made a lot of mistakes in Lebanon. But the initial reason of the invasion was that plo used the weakness of lebanon as terror base against israel

@saddambinladen3031 8 жыл бұрын

this is what israel wanted from the get go^^ they openly admitted they fomented civil strife deliberately in Lebanon.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

ibn Migash lived in Muslim Spain. Where are the voluminous records from the Ottoman Empire of Jews obtaining justice in Sharia courts?

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

I am not opposed to independence for the community of Arabic-speakers who have recently adopted a Palestinian national identity. As a Zionist, it's very important for me that they achieve this and I believe fully that the other alternative is a binational state which will quickly become Arab-dominated and soon after that Islamist-dominated. I also want any future Palestinian Arab state to be very weak and have no control over Jerusalem, with no right of return for refugees into the Jewish state.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Re-the likes of Geller and Spencer--why bring them up and where did you see me cite them approvingly? You earlier mentioned Bernard Lewis, who wrote a book called "What Went Wrong?" where he examines the decline of Islamic civilization. Whatever relative tolerance and enlightened attitudes that once may have existed towards minorities centuries ago in some Islamic societies is no longer the case. Something has gone very wrong and Jews do not want to live in Muslim-dominated societies now.

@mcfctid2 11 жыл бұрын

I have heard this first hand from a Lebanese Christian fighter, who described how he was shot by Palestinians in south Lebanon. I only mention to reinforce the validity of this story. Which serves to acentuate the complexity of this conflict and how name calling and finger wagging helps no-one.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Israel is a secular democracy, although there is a growing minority that pushes for a halakhic state. Islamist states that base all or much of their civil code on Sharia interpretations do exist--Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Pakistan (in the past) etc..and now Islamist movements have taken power n Egypt and Tunisia.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "Except under Medieval Islam where no, you don’t have to believe in our God, but you’ll be a second class citizen. " Judaism also has a similar status of "ger toshav" extended to non-Jews living in a halakhic (Jewish religious law) state. Neither this not Dhimma status is an appropriate model for a modern state.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

The Dhimma status accorded to non-Muslim adherents of monotheistic religions (ahl al kitab) restricted and limited protections, but not equal standing to Muslims. The historians you cite acknowledge this. Nevertheless, dhimmis status is not a model in the 21st century. Yes, Jews on the whole fared somewhat better in Islamic societies than in Christian societies in the Middle Ages, with many exceptions to this rule. Both were bad, only under Islam it was slightly less bad, sometimes.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

You have to read her along with other historians. Her personal experiences and the privations her family experienced from Arab society were not fictionalized. As for oo agenda, you think Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe, Naim Giladi, et al. have no agenda? Seriously?

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

No historical documents other than the Quran mention Muhamed period. But history can also be deduced from obvious factors, such as the large Christian and Jewish presence in Arabia, and the highly unlikely probability that Muhamed never spoke to them, especially since the religion he founded was based on them. But then again, you believe it was divine revelation, but that doesn't neccesarily rule out the fact that he knew of those other religions.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

As far as rational historical dialogue is concerned, we have to deal with what is and not what people believe. I respect the Islamic religion and Quran, but when speaking history, it is a fact that Islamic monotheism did not emerge from a vacuum but rather with Mohamed's intense interaction with the Jews and Christians of Yathrib, Damascus, etc. He was inspired by Judaism's "fanatic" monotheism and rejection of idols, a man being God, God having an image etc.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re " the dictator AlBashir gave them their right of independence," And there have been frequent border skirmishes ever since. "is democratic Israel thinking of doing that anytime soon with Pals? :) " Yes, absolutely. It's been the case that every Israeli government has endorsed a Palestinian Arab state since 1993. The only problem is that the Palestinians reject every single reasonable offer that's been made.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "yet, we still saw the Jewish physician, lawyer, philosopher, and Vizier. " And we also can see the persecutions of the Almovarides and the Almohades, the forced conversions of the Jews of Meshed, Iran, stigmas of "impure" attached to Jews in Shiite Persia, and numerous examples of mob violence against Jews by Muslims in various lands over the centuries.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

I probably read Lewis's "The Jews of Islam" before you were born. (I'm 43 years old.)

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

But either way, whether one believes in divinity of Quran or not, from a historical point of view, Islam as a religion was the natural successor to a crippled Byzantine Empire and its basis in Eastern Christianity, in addition to a return to a more logical theology. From a diplomatic point of view, Islam was careful not to offend Jesus by accepting him as a prophet, and rejected Judaism's notion of chosen people. Whether one wants to believe in its divinity is faith not history.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

As far as Mizrahi Jews are concerned, I cannot speak, but I am sure there are cultural differences between them and Arabs, as well as similarities. Venn diagram.

@Darktemplar99999 3 жыл бұрын

Mizrahi Jews are just Arab Jews.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

So it's not really relevant to point out that Jews had it better with Dhimmi status than they did under Christian-ruled countries. Who cares if a Jew in Muslim-ruled Andalus had it better under Sharia law than a Jew in the Christian-ruled Rhineland in the same period? We are in 2013 now, and Jews (and Chrsitian Copts in Egypt) won't accept Dhimmi status now.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

I don't read court Turkish. Cite me specific cases instead of just telling me to read the Ottoman archives. I never denied that Jews had it slightly better under medieval Islam than under medieval Christianity on the whole, and had some limited rights. What does that have to do with the rights of the Jewish nation (and I must stress that Jews are collectively a NATIONAL group) to have self-determination in its own state in its own ancestral homeland, which is what Zionism is all about?

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Sure, money always talks. A Jew who could come up with bribe money could often get a more favorable outcome that he usually would not get in a dispute with a Muslim in a Sharia court.

@daddyshaq-td3kq 6 ай бұрын

Palestinians wouldn't have been fighting in Lebanon if Israel didn't displace them and ethnically cleanse the land. Also, all Lebanese are Arab, including Christians. We do not speak phoenician, we speak Arabic, pray in Arabic, our music is Arabic, poetry etc. A big misconception: Being "Arab" is not a race, we are Levantine, we are diverse, and our culture is Arab and has been for centuries.

@LukaKarra 3 ай бұрын

Doesn't justify massacring us and raping our women. And those Palestinians had many opportunities to live alongside the Jews. They have brought much of their suffering on themselves. I feel for them but it's the truth.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

And this letter exists as an artifact, or is legendary itself ? I don't know about Islam, but it's funny how in Christianity people go around saying there are "thousands" of artifacts such as personal diaries confirming Jesus, when in fact, there are none (maybe some frauds). How do people convince themselves, I don't know. The only nonBiblical reference to Jesus, Josephus, was inserted by Catholic monks in the Middle Ages in a different dialect of Latin

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

And I'm sure Islam did provide a lot of original philosophers that even Jewish scholars were inspired by, especially the Kalam school of thought in Andalusia that influenced Rabbenu Bahya ibn Paqudah in Hovot aLebabot. But if one is to go a bit further back in time, the monotheism of the Arab world itself via Islam did come from Judeo-christian thought, as the Quran itself claims to be the epitomy of a line of Judeo-christian prophets. In 50 AD, the vast majority of the Middle East was pagan.

@mcfctid2 11 жыл бұрын

99meemo historically rare huh ! 16 in 1400 years is one point one four every 100 years too many morally regardless of historical revision. You consider that this is propaganda yet you did not argue it never existed. My point entirely when I hear romantic bollocks coming from an obviously biased opinion . Try thinking more about what you read. Then comment.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

I can document my family in Israel on my father's maternal side (on her father's side--my great grandfather's) to the 1500s, on his father's side to the 1880s. (From Halab.)I can't document all of my father's mother's father's maternal ancestors, but we believe some of them lived in Kefar Yassif (today an almost entirely Christian Arab town) at one point.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

If Muslims freely choose to go to Sharia courts to arbitrate their own disputes and sign a binding instrument that they will abide by its rulings (e.g., Sharia courts in London or Toronto that deal with Muslim divorce or business disputes), who cares? But when Sharia laws are IMPOSED on non-Muslim residents or citizens of Muslim countries, it's something else. Religious minorities in Muslim societies (whether Copts in Egypt or Jews in an Islamic Emirate of Filastin) don't want Dhimma status.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

It has nothing to do with being embarrassed in front of Ashkenazim (and I am half-Ashkenazi anyway). We simply don't identify with Arabs in terms of national affinity. Most of the present generation of Mizrahi-Jewish Israelis do not even speak Arabic (for better or for worse) so it's ridiculous to call them "Arab Jews". Many have roots in non-Arab countries or regions--Persia, Bukhara, Iraqi Kurdistan--Mizrahi is a more inclusive term.

@mcfctid2 11 жыл бұрын

Note 1400 years as you put it. Was under the yoke of another. Do you really believe Jews were autonomous. So you see they know something about oppression perhaps your pride does not like the Dhimmi asserting itself.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re " No one wants you to be under Muslims." Speak for yourself. Read the Hamas Charter.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

Yeah indeed, this conversation has seemed to dwindle down lol, but it was nice talking to you

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "Christian Palestinians are ministers, city councilors and ambassadors." And in Israel Christians, Muslims and Druze citizens serve in those same roles. "Making up something like “Islamic Emirate of Filastin” makes you no different than the of Israelis I’ve encountered; creatively delusional. " If Hamas takes power, it's not farfetched. They already claim to be the only legitimate Palestinian government.

@VALDIGNE 4 жыл бұрын

Bring back the SLA.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

re "The "Russians going back to Russia" doesn't come up" Bullshit. I read it constantly. All the time. Helen Thomas, the Arab-American journalist reeated a variant of it a few years ago. "The Israelis must go back to Europe" Blah blah blah. Ahmadenijad said "why didn't they build a Jewish state in Germany?" The Jewish links to the land are constantly denied and delegitimized.

@michaelnberkowitz 11 жыл бұрын

It's possible I will have to look into it, and you're right about faith. There are some matters there is neither evidence for or against, and the lack of evidence leads scholars to question it. Im still forming my Weltanshaung and Islam is an important part of my worldview and opinions about history, even though it's not my religion, so I'm trying to make sense of it.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

Mordechai Ben David's popular wedding song "Yidden" and the German pop band "Dschinghis Khan" share the same tune. You can see the video on "Origins of Yidden." The cheesy song played at every ultra-Orthoodx wedding and bar mitzvah from Boro Park to Stamford Hill to Bnei Berak comes from Germany's 1979 Eurovision entry. But it becomes genuinely Jewish when it's played at Jewish events with Yiddish and Hebrew words.

@ShmorgelBorgel 11 жыл бұрын

*the former Yugoslavia---not "the former Macedonia" (Macedonia being one of the areas of the former Yugoslavia with many ethnic Turks)