"If you engage in immorality, you are entering into communion with demons." - Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick.

I am concerned for Fr. Andrew's headphones as they seem to be passing in and out of the seen and unseen realms.

The brilliant discussion going on at 39:00 reminds me of the phrase “greatest trick the devil played was convincing the world he’s not real.”

Fr. Andrew: "Father Stephen is a comic book lover as well" Fr. Stephen: *casually sips from his Flash mug*

Aliens are the materialists’ fairies.

Loving the shoutout to the Silmarillion. If you read the creation story in the opening chapters the analogy to the origin of Sin from Pride is crazy! Especially if you’re a musician, and if you’ve witnessed how sharing in the creation of music can so easily devolve into an ego battle. Peace!! ✌️😎💜

Dr. Michael Heiser needs to be in on these talks.

I believe most of us are patiently awaiting your analysis of these cosmic intelligences.

A person from Egypt once told me that if a person, a muslim is posseased in a severe way, the imam even used to Call for a koptic Priest.

I came to this podcast through Jordan Peterson. It is very enlightening and inspiring.. Thank you.

Reminds me of Dr. Heiser’s works, God bless him…rest in peace.

This was a really good watch! Would be lovely to have more discussions with Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen!

Everytime Johnathan puts a video put "No THIS is my favorite"

So glad you guys addressed psychedelics. I warn my clients against them for the same reason. Are they having "spiritual" experiences? Sure. But not godly ones . . . at least generally; I've heard some stories of God intervening by grace.

I have only ever encountered three types of embodied spirits: creatures with material bodies, inimical demons/eldritch horrors with subtle bodies, and neutral/ambivalent beings with subtle bodies who don't really care all that much. The Church did not seem like a place I belonged, but then I heard about St. Christopher and started to think maybe. Still figuring out how/where I fit into this whole thing.

@15:00 Describing the spiritual reality as a overlapping transparency reminds me of Narnia, where Aslan's Kingdom _is_ Narnia, but infinitely bigger and more full, overlaying the mundane Narnia the characters had known.

Regarding psychedelics and "what the monster has to teach you," I think the person you were talking to is misunderstanding this. Not recommending psychedelic use, but in my experience, the monster doesn't _teach_ you anything, the _encounter_ with the monster teaches you things. It's not "what does this being have to teach me," but rather, "what would I have to be in order to vanquish this and make it go away?" It's sort of like a bronze serpent of Moses scenario.

Some people from a sect approached a priest I knew - they didn't recognize him from behind, and asked: "Do you want to talk about God?" He turned around and said: "I am an Orthodox priest, and - yes, I would love to talk about God." They immediately disappeared after that :)

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of beards.

Ha! Jonathan mentioned my post in the group about the masks. That’s my 15 minutes of fame.

Great content as always!

Amazing information on my favorite research subjects! God bless all three of you greatly! I need to find an Orthodox church near me, because I need to learn more of their theology. I get grief from protestants for reading noncannonical books, and I see them as an important tool in trying to understand the big picture.

For me this acknowledgement of the spiritual dimension is a pretty big deal. Don’t usually but I’m relistening. Thank you!!

Always enjoyed the Tolkien podcast with Fr Andrew. Will check out the Lord of Spirits one now. In Islamic tradition isn’t Satan a jinn that rebels because he’s made of like fire and air and thinks Adam being made of earth is lesser than him and won’t be subject to Adam in hierarchy? Anyone remember if the watchers were Jinns as well in that story? I know they have a similar story. I agree with Jonathan the jinns are interesting even though I ascribe exclusively to the 2nd temple/Christian worldview. Agree with another commenter, Dr. Mike Heiser talks about this quite a bit in his books and lectures. Thanks guys, God bless.

Great chat, the conversation was more open-minded than I had expected, the good humour was a bonus. Thumbs up!

What a great episode, thank you!

Great discussion, thankyou. Re: Enoch. I think it fell out of favour as a consequence of the battle between the Church and the Manichaean heresy. The Enochian literature was heavily exploited by the Manicheans in their gnostic mythos. Augustine, being a former member of the sect, would thus have reason to reject it. Manichaeism was the main rival to Christianity during late antiquity.

Long past due topic that needs to be discussed. Late to the party but glad y’all came.

Thanks again Jonathan, great content as always!

This podcast series has been fantastic so far!

In the ancient Norse mythology, Thor actually does get drunk on beer and mead. The gods were not immune to intoxication.

This. is. so. good. Thanks JP!

This was tremendously insightful. Thank you very much.

I love these two. Their podcast is awesome

I just learned today that the INAH (National Institute of History and Anthropology) here in Mexico, which is a very important institution for the study of prehispanic Mexican history, released a book of "silenced" ghost stories narrated by serious academics and researchers of the institute during field studies over archaeological sites. It blew my mind and I had to return here to see what Frs. Stephen and Andrew and Jonathan had to tell about it. It´s incredible how the Symbolic World is breaking loose.

Absolutely fantastic. One of your best podcasts.

Wonderful crossover!

Very, very insightful and erudite. Thank you all!

good show. very important topic not often discussed, sadly. so, yeah, more please.

Wonderful video! Congrats!!!

Jonathan! This is great - there are a lot of ideas, particularly in this episode, that are help guiding a novel I'm writing on this spiritual structure, but in relation to man and animals.

I hope you do a round 2 with both priests... this was excellent! Their Podcast is also very educational.

A physical example of Pageauian “manifestation”: As a 3-dimensional sphere passes through a 2-dimensional plane, it “manifests” as a dot, becoming a slightly bigger circle, becoming a medium-sized circle, becoming a large circle, becoming a medium sized circle again, becoming a tiny circle, and ultimately becoming a dot like it was at the beginning. Then it disappears. All 2-dimensional inhabitants of this “2 dimensional plane” can only perceive this circle as a thin line. This line starts as a point, slowly grows wider, and then slowly retracts until it blinks out of existence. You see, the 2d inhabitants of this 2d world can only perceive a 3D object (the ball) as a 1D line. Similarly, us 3D humans can only perceive a 3D ball as a 2D circle (even though we know it’s 3D, we can only see one side of it at once. We can’t see all sides of a sphere simultaneously.) The closer the ball gets, it appears like a larger circle. The farther away the ball is, it appears like a smaller circle. Although we can understand higher dimensions (such as the 4th dimension, Time), we are only ever capable of experiencing one POINT in time. It is impossible to simultaneously be in two points of time, you are only ever in the present. But higher beings can and DO do that. If we were able to quote unquote “stop time” and be stationary in a singular point in time, it would then be possible to be in two points in space at the exact same moment in time. It would then be possible to perceive a sphere at all angles ‘simultaneously’ (one point in time). There seems to be a rule that, in any given dimension, it is only possible to PERCIEVE one dimension LESS. Nonetheless, we can UNDERSTAND 1 or two dimensions higher, some people may even understand more than that.

When they were discussing how we shouldn't not get wisdom from monsters I recalled JBP mentioning quote by Jung "Beware of unearned wisdom". Seems to fit the story here. But then I remembered part of C.S. Lewis "Why am I not a pacifist" lecture. There he explains how one builds knowledge/understanding of truth by: 1) Input - facts observed + facts "learned", from others (and in fact for the most part, one uses the 2nd one) 2) some obvious base deductions 3) A -> B -> C chain of reasoning Similar on a moral plain with moral truths. But big chunk of point 1, Input comes from others, through authority. We believe others - family, friends, media, internet. Believing authority is a kind of "unearned wisdom". And we are curious creations that have different levels of knowing - we might know that the stove is hot, but when we burn ourselves - Then boy do we know it. XD For days and weeks after we "know" ;). But with current pretty much non-existence of real authority - I'm totally not surprised by flat earthers on one side, and fake news on the other. And that's a curious riddle - as authority is good, and necessary, but we're likely to fail using it - what then ? I came up with some source of Truth - being it the Word of God - Bible or Christ, and authorities being more believable, the more they point to the source. It feels right, but it doesn't sound right XD.

Great podcast. (With The School of Athens too.) Thank you.

This was brilliant guys! - ;)

I love you guys ! ♥️ This is awesome ! I did want to mention that I am a protestant , I follow Tim Mackey who is also a protestant teacher with the Bible project. He explains this whole conversation as well, in a very like manner!

fascinating thanks Jonathan!

Wonderful work!

Thanks

Re "If you see a ghost of a family member, assume it's a demon..." There was an interesting episode of Star Trek Voyager ("Coda") which demonstrates that point.

Wow I need to hear more about what Fr Stephen de Young has to say

Press like.

I forgot to comment. This was awesome.

Awesome podcast 👍

One word of caution on these things. From experience, it's very easy for a functional materialist to get very enamoured with the spectacular and sensational. These things are a very real reality, but the experience thereof is not something to seek in itself, tempting as that may be. It should be a natural part of faithfully seeking the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

Saw these guys on Reason and Theology. Looking forward to more of them here and elsewhere.

I'm late to this video, (and early in) but I'm also a fan of Paula Fredriksen who has done I think an invaluable service by bringing the polytheistic ancient world back to life so when we read "...every knee shall bend" we know it is not simply referring to the material world. I also don't believe you can read something like Mark's gospel (or Revelation) without an acceptance that God is not the only force at work in the world. I look forward to the rest of this conversation.

I would be interested to hear Jonathan discuss the film 'My Dinner With Andre', specifically Andre Gregory's recounting of his experiences at Findhorn Foundation , with people there encountering strange beings ( if I recall, he mentions "little men" or "gnomes") and various other esoteric experiences.

Thanks!

Thank you

This was an interesting conversation

Jonathan, Excellent video. I enough always miss the real in among the world. Something that recent reminder me of that was first part of the Doyle's "White Company"; when a young cleric leaves the monastery to help his brother at home, he perceives the angels and saints interacting spiritually with the people that travel down the road leaving the monastery. We miss that the imminent over focused on the physical. I just today saw a study of how people focus on some things, like motion before size. So, we see the material before the imminent, but that is a specific element of form over the completeness of the real. I look forward to hearing Father Andrew and have listened to his LOTR podcast with joy; and Father Stephen, of course, since I judge KZfaq presenters by their magnificence of their beards! Of course, he'll have competition from Pastor Paul's new beard look (no criticism of Father Andrew, and his blessed headphones, or your beard implied).

@30 minutes. Comes to mind George Gabriel’s (author of Mary Untrodden Portal of God and translator of Ancestral Sin) on the demons who were cast from the possessed to the pigs of Gaddarenes, the fathers narrative was Christ assented to them going to the cliff as a consolation, because they prayed for release.

I 've been waiting a long time for you to mention Guenon

I thought this talk was SO great, and got me really excited about there podcast.. and it is great.. The only trouble I run into is.. as someone who's largely ignorant of this Orthodox tradition.. there's a lot of places where it can be challenging to critically engage with.. and maintain sorta epistemological integrity.. where truth-e-ness claims are often made based on the relationship to the authority of the church / tradition and it's like "yeah, but I'm totally ignorant of this.. so I'm not really in a place where I can make judgements about how I should regard that authority." The best I've been able to do is to try and seek out other perspectives on these kinds of things.. which isn't super easy for me to find.. and see if that reveals anything to me. The best I've been able to do on this is Marie-Louise von Franz.. who was a close collaborator with Jung and would treat her patience exclusively through dream analysis.. and that tradition.. going all the way up to some of the stuff I find around UoT... I find I'm able to find a decent amount of solid ground at least. But I love that you're out there doing this stuff..

Awsome!!

It would be an odd discussion, but it’d be fascinating to hear these guys - I’m Orthodox so I should say Fathers - talk with Rupert Sheldrake, who’s trying to open up the scientific world to taboo topics that don’t fit strict materialist physics.

Interesting conversation 🤔

Have you listened to Mike Heiser PhD He has a lot of material on a peer reviewed level on the Divine councel, gods, etc. He has a lot on KZfaq you might enjoy.

This material is the #AnswerToJung

I love you guys. I have been listening to Michael Heiser for a long time now and he has similar content.

Several people in the comments have mentioned Dr. Michael S. Heiser. So worth looking into his information on the divine council in his book, The Unseen Realm.

Another author who's been trying to solve the same problem in the hierarchy of spirits, other than Lewis and Tolkien, is Gene Wolfe

There was the spirit that gave the seeress the ability to prophesy. It basically just followed Paul around proclaiming "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved." until he called it out of her. (Acts 16:27)

Lewis also did it even more so in That Hideous Strength.

'Non-canonical', 'Enochian Texts', 'Spirit-communing', 'Kabbalah'.. Great to hear these subjects being discussed from an Orthodox Christian perspective. On the 'Celestial Hierarchies / Builders of the Kosmos' theme - I am reminded of a passage in Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine Volume 1, P. 274 》 ".. ... the whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform, and who - whether we give to them one name or another and call them Dhyan Chohans or Angels - are "messengers" in the only sense that they are the agents of Karmic and Cosmic Laws. They vary infinitely in their respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence .. each of these beings either was, or prepares to become, a man, if not in the present then in a past or a coming cycle (Manvantara). They are perfected, when not incipient men, and differ morally from the terrestrial human beings on their higher (less material) spheres, only in that they are devoid of the feeling of personality and of the human emotional nature - two purely earthly characteristics."

Grant Morrison is one of my favorite comic book writers of all time. His views on time and magick are incredibly interesting

If by change you see this comment, plz make a video on the symbolism of the New Nolan, Tenet. Thanks!:)

You all should try and add Michael Heiser to your circle. Great discussion to listen to. Thank you.

I would love to see you guys talk with Dr. Michael Heiser as others have said!

Lisa’s going to have a field day with this on the clips channel.

You should do an interview with Michael Heiser!

👍

It would be a good conversation with Ben Greenfield on plant medicine.

I'd love to here any of you deep dive into Shintoism

I've had some experiences that might be demonic. Poltergeist situations and sleep paralysis. half awake dreams with tall shadowy figures and dog like creatures either standing by the door or breathing in my ear. Saying the Jesus prayer broke the paralysis on the third saying last time. Maybe these are just dreams.

Don’t forget about the Faun that is present in the story of Saint Anthony. Apparently, a wandering desert being that is a wilderness faun from the fairy world, ask St Anthony and the Christians for prayers for his kind. It almost seems like the faun wanted Christ to be aware of the fae and their desire for salvation as well

Jonathan can you do Raised By Wolves please? It is teeming with symbolism.

This went from biblical talk to some weird form of world building. Lets keep it on the path guys come on.

The 'Messenger' is definitely a much more corporeal representation of a higher principality. How does prophesying tie into the topic of higher principalities? Are those who prophesize like the Levitical priests in the old testament impure? Also it would've been really cool if they talked about the story of Saul. Saul "Had a head taller than anyone else," Great in appearance(maybe hinting at glowing/shimmering), and anytime Israelites came into contact with King Saul's belongings they had to purify themselves. Sounds alot like what was talked about in the video

Does anyone have a link to the meme Fr Damick mentions? What the camera sees vs what the villagers see. I can't seem to find it.

Perhaps ~15 foot tall is the ~max height that a person with say ~20/20 vision can clearly see upwards in their peripheral vision (i.e. as they're standing and looking/staring forward)? If so, then perhaps that could explain why so many think the angelic being is that tall.

Some people don’t need psychedelics because they have wisdom. People using them, that’s what they’re trying to achieve.

❤

Chuck Missler, Dr. Michael Heiser, Derek and Sharon Gilbert and Nelson Walters have all been speaking and writing books about this subject for years! Although they are protestants, and the impression I get from this video is that as such they couldn't possibly know anything. On the off chance that anyone is interested, the Gilberts have a program called, "Unraveling Revelation," it goes into a lot more detail about the specific entities the Bible names, as well as the other books that are referenced in Revelation. They also have a podcast at Gilbert House Fellowship, that goes verse by verse through the Bible and chronologically through the books...an interesting way to study The Word! If we're all saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, aren't we all in the same family and shouldn't we care for one another, work together and share information? The devil is coming for us all...

The arrival of bronze technology and later iron technology would have greatly impacted their respective cultures, especially in the their application towards cultural and warfare applications. If these new technological advances lessened spiritual faith in any way, the keepers of spiritual wisdom would have looked at this new technology as bad, un-pure, or a distraction form the deep spiritual tenets of the day. Perhaps a precursor to our modern love of technology over spiritual virtue. Metallurgy was a deeply guarded secret due to its importance to trade, wealth, and prestige, it makes sense that the keepers of wisdom could villainize these technologies as coming from an unholy place. Based on the modern world we live, I see the wisdom in pumping the breaks on the seduction of new technologies as a distraction from the the spiritual core of beliefs.

53:43 I have the exact same reaction, when people try and convince me that doing, clearly dangerous drugs, is the only way to achieve any sort of insight/enlightenment of life. You know man if you wanna blast your brain out on hallucinogenics, go right ahead, I'll just stick to thinking, thank you very much.

At 29:00 Jonathan brings up the Djinn and ambiguity of spirits, which connects to something I have been wondering a lot about. In Islamic literature you read about Djinn who have converted to the true faith (Islam), which made me wonder about repentance and spiritual beings. So for me, growing up Catholic(ish), the idea is you pray for the dead because they cant merit after death and you’re trying to give them that extra jeuje they need to shorten their sentence in purgatory as it were. Which gives the sense that conversion can only happen in this life-but then there are the stories of John the Baptist Ministering in Hell. So can a demon, or fairy, or elf, or dryad or what have you convert, and accept Christ? 🤔

Anyone watching would probably enjoy 'The Naked Bible Podcast' Michael S Heiser has a similar aim in his teachings. Looking at the Bible in it's correct context.