If Gavin was doing the lecture, I would love to be there😊 safe travels

Excellent feed back chaps…So natural, and also entertaining as well as your usual erudite deliveries. Thank you.❤

God bless you, from Australia 🇦🇺

i loved this ! Thank you so much ! I loved hearing you talk to one another and share and contrast your reflections and your ideas … Felt so fortunate to be able to listen .. thank you

Thanks for recording in a space where there was no audio problems.

God gives us people like Jordan Peterson and Bishop Mar Mari to help us keep our heads above water, we must never stop praying for Gods grace 🕊🇮🇪✝️🙏☘️

I agree with your sense of frustration listening to Jordan Peterson. I find that he often lacks clarity and over emotionalises issues that we face. I put it down to him being hyper-conscious of the very aggressive politically driven opposition who are trying to take him down. If he comes out as a Christian he will be attacked in the same way that we all are (as primitive, credulous and ignorant) and undermined academically. If he hedges about his belief he can maintain a more academic standpoint and raise these ideas as philosophical and psychological issues. I wonder if he is fighting to regain academic legitimacy as much as to convert doubters.

Mr. Peterson is a brave man and a very good speaker and reasonably good political commenter (there are some issues here though). I used to listen to Mr. Peterson more some time ago. I stopped listen to him more when I listened to him speak about the Scriptures and God. It was similar to listening to Dennis Prager's in that it is very personal. It seems to me he interprets the Word of God more through Carl Jung than anything close to the Apostolic deposit of the faith. I occasionally listen to his political discussions now. I pray for him and his family. It was a blessing hearing about his wife may she lead him into the faith. He seems a proud strong willed fellow and I pray that isn't a hinderance to him. I do hope he leads people to Jesus but don't think he can atm but can merely point towards God existing (not as the Christian reality). There is a danger of leading people away as well into something not Christian, potentially even Christians.

Thank you guys, very entertaining and informative! God bless you all!

Interesting insights. The devil spirit of resentment finds its home in the law courts and politics.

I suspect that there is a great benefit to JBP’s stance as still wrestling with God. It appeals to so many of us in the culture who have come from the materialist mindset. If he were to ‘preach’ from a place of conviction, we might turn away. He reflects the struggle of so many of us who live in this ‘post Christian’ world.

You trio are amazing force , conservative anchor ⚓️ it is possible Europe will get back to their Christian origin. ✝️

Welcome to CHICAGO! I do hope you get yourself some good Chicago thin crust pizza while you're here! Or, if you're really hungry, Chicago style PAN pizza is absolutely amazing. I saw Jordan Peterson twice recently, once in Iowa, and again in Michigan. He sounded very much like an Old Testament prophet. The Michigan crowd especially loved his lecture. God bless you all.

Dr Gavin .So nice to see you relaxing...Has Mark got over jet lag, as he was very quiet last video .😊 Catherine have you got some decent tea bags yet?.I hope so.!They do have Tetleys in some grocery stores. We have most English tea bags and loose tea here on Vancouver this way .Just in case you ever get this way in the future.Always welcome.☘️ Great to see that you seem to be having a good time Blessings as always Gerri ☘️🙏☕

How lovely to be able to meet in person.

I prefer listening to guys discuss and exegete Scriptures and the Catholic faith (and reality) over Mr. Peterson by a large margin. The same with news and politics of the day because it's from a position of true faith. I am unsure if prayer of a person with authentic expressed Catholic faith of a pure, simple, righteous person in private would be preferred over a famous intellectual. I imagine in the Body of Christ there is room for more than I can image all to bring glory to God. But Mr. Peterson has to become part of the Body like his wife for this to be. At the moment he seems like a John 3 Nicodemus, not quite there yet. JMJ pray for him and us.

While wrestling with himself and God, Peterson has brought more to the Lord than most of our own Catholic Bishops!

Poor DrJP, still a prisoner in the fortress of his own mind!

People are hungry for the ideas with which Dr. Peterson is presenting and struggling. We are so desperate for ideas that ask us to question our assumptions. This is true about the insidiousness of evil. It can manifest itself so easily in a human being and human societies.

Thank you so much for being real about Jordan Peterson. I respect him too, and appreciate what he has done, BUT his ego is keeping him on the border of things, and frustrating me.

If Jordan was a Christian he would be compelled to speak out as the Holy Spirit gives utterance. He is still driving.

Yeah, that's more like the inner city......sirens🚨🚔🚨🚑🚨

Love you guys, you work so well together!

One of the things Jordan Peterson does well, is to navigate the language of symbols. For many Catholics this verges on the heretical, but it depends whether you see symbols as arbitrary cultural abstractions, of little connection to the thing they point to, or the fundamental building blocks of reality. I would argue that the bible is full of the symbolic from Genesis onwards, but the word symbol has accrued meanings which devalue it.

I think Peterson would benefit going into retreat with his wife and family for at least a month or more. He is strong willed and as such is perhaps unwilling to give over to his wife. Added to that he probably is rigid in his ideas around the right order of things and cannot let go of the masculine feminine dichotomy, forgetting that these two things are not relevant when it comes to who gets to the Kingdom of God first. Basically what I'm saying is that he would do well to truly listen to his wife.

I thank you for this review of JPs talk. I am concerned by his inordinate wordiness and how his voice so often goes to the angry pitch. Oh well I did enjoy all of your viewpoints as you wrestled with JP.

This was awesome.

Brilliant

Whether militant atheist, agnostic or devout Christian, isn't the "wrestling" all a part of the journey? Pastor Douglas Wilson has a few interesting pov here. Incidentally Tucker Carlson interviewed Doug the other day. Well worth a watch 👍

I still think JP’s issue with not being able to accept Christianity and Catholicism specifically is his practice of kundalini yoga. It’s interesting that he started mentioning possession, because exorcists will name that particular kind of yoga as a risk for oppression/possession.

Lex Orandi Lex Credendi Lex Vivendi

A person needs to want to engage in God's endless Grace; so if you can stimulate the mind in that direction you have done then a service. Can you imagine your first day at school introducing you to applied calculus! I think not; better to start with adding and subtracting and then progress. Faith is not an intellectual pursuit, but the more you know and understand the easier it will be to trust in God and let Him open your mind.

I remember Hillsong in Australia, a pastor got up in jeans and spoke about Christian experience and psychological experiences and packed a stadium with 40,000 people. So there must be something in which language is used.

I tell you, when Peterson submits to God, watch out!

Hope you're having a great time across the pond. I’m puzzled to be honest by the fanboy crush on Jordan Peterson who seems to have evolved into Catholicism’s Number One ‘Would like to convert’ from his original USP as the unwilling icon of awkward young men embittered by not getting copious casual sex. Did I miss something there? Grateful if the CU team could address this once you're back to rather less stage struck Blighty as there is something going on within the ranks of some previously very sceptical or even atheist cultural commentators that is intriguing. Wonderful as the story of Tammy Petersen’s conversion is, it’s clear that Catholic media seem rather obsessed with her husband and that would make for an interesting discussion. Would this be an asset for the faith or is there a danger that this fixation could be used to misrepresent Catholicism as merely another luxury belief (with retreats costed to match) for the rich, famous or influential?

Is that a single malt Mark? And Gavin?

Wow, diabolic resentment, very accurate!

Not so much prevarication (with its implication of telling lies) as wordiness to the point where you haven’t got a clue what he’s on about at times.

Jordan Peterson is standing at the arrivals desk at an international airport. Immigration official asks: "What is your name, sir?" JP: "What do you mean by 'name'?"

William F. Buckley said once “to be a true intellectual, you must be Catholic”.

My husband and I always want to hear what you all are grappling with but the talking over each other makes it very difficult!

🎯 agree that Gavin (or for that matter Catholic Unscripted) could do better than J.Peterson

I have recently discussed the OT conquest of the Holy Lands with other Catholics. On the topic of people doing evil in the name of God/religion, many point towards passages in the OT (Noah, conquest of Canaan, Sodom, ect) to say Christianity - Judaism are no different of using religion and the name of God to justify evil. Many point to Christ's love pointing to a non-literal interpretation that doesn't take it that God actually said or did these various things. I don't know how that can make much sense with much of the NT. A few examples would be Luke 17, 2 Peter 3, 2 Thess, Revelation as well as various sections of the CCC like Article 7.

👍💖🙏

Hurray Dr Ashenden! He doesn't have the planks in him! That is what is so frustrating!

Can the current liturgies of the sacraments and the Mass lead us to sufficient sacramental and sacrificial graces from God or does it cut us off from receiving them all together???

You all are so intelligent that I have trouble understanding what you're saying.

Hi there: I'm connecting with you guys again. Interesting discussion. My opinion is: If Jordan Peterson is so intelligent, then why is he struggling with God for sooo long, without believing yet? He is mixing the "World" with God. My issue is what are his long-term motivations? I deeply think he's not done yet, and he has a sinister motivation. In my opinion, he is NOT doing goodness, BECAUSE his conclusions are not goodness in God. Your wishes of "why he didnt say, what he didn't say," is EXACTLY MY OPINION. His motivations are not ok. I think, he's a charlatan in the making. You see, he can't even say that Jesus raised from the dead!.....the Bible definition......of a charlatan.

This is all mildly interesting but what we really want to know is: did Jordan pronounce the T in “often”? Because if he did then everything he said is without merit.

Wait a minute, good people.. What Peterson is doing is addressing a mass of people who are hardly at all familiar with christian terminology and i dare say many christians don't really understand the meaning (the spirit within) of the words either. The holy man Maxim the Confessor speaks very clearly of this distinction showing that there are several kinds of knowledge. Saint Gregory of Nyssa in the "Life of Moses" also explains the distinction between the levels of understanding, so the analysis cannot start on such a subjective note on a platform that wants to be christian - all christians are invited to sacrifice their firstborn : the ego.

Your unmarried priesthood provides "willing hosts"

"dare we hope "...?

Jordan Peterson needs to see and understand God's intelligent design in Catholic spirituality. He will not convert to Catholicism until he understands the three stages of the spiritual life and union with God. As Fr. Aidan Nichols says... `the three stages are how the Catholic Church owns Divine Revelation". The missing link in Jordan Peterson"s understanding is a high level understanding of how a Catholic should follow the life of Christ (only ever) by following the three stages. In this way he will finally understand the meaning of the suffering of the Cross, which for a Catholic should be during the first dark night (which is called the Dark Night of the Senses). Without the fullest theological understanding of the Cross and redemptive suffering (which is connected to purification), he simply will not get it. Without understanding how Moses fiery serpent connects to the life of an ordinary Christian, he will struggle. He needs to see evidence of intelligent design in the life of a Christian, then he will be convinced and convert to Catholicism. This is the reality of the situation.

Peterson is doing something that is almost impossible to do. He is looking at the question of God from MANY standpoints simultaneously: From the psychological, the philosophical, using the modern scientific, rational, fact based method, the literary criticism discipline, and so on. Perhaps even the theological, but he downplays the theological at this point. He is trying to show that the "modern" "scientific" opposition to God is not well founded, and perhaps requires a perversion of the scientific method to come to a position of disbelief. Because he wants to defeat unbelief from a rational scientific, evidence based position, he refuses to argue the theological way Gavin wants him to do. He knows secular people reject this way of arguing, so he sticks with their method of proving ideas. He has stated that he thinks his conclusion will result in the end of the Enlightenment, and that we are entering a new era. That is a big conclusion, and perhaps a bit overdrawn. To become an expert in all these areas is near impossible, but he is attempting it. I listen to all his podcasts. It seems to me his weak point is his adoption of Jonathan Pageau's literary criticism method, where everything is a "symbol" of this or that. But deciding that Abraham sacrificing Isaac 1) actually is a "symbol" of something else, and 2) that whatever Pageau or Peterson think it is a symbol of is CORRECT, is a big stretch. Peterson seems to rely on this "dream interpretation" of stories in the bible a bit too much. God bless him for trying though, and I wish him success.

I was an early fan of JP since before his cancellations and illness. But his “get the damn vaccine” and strange clothes put me off and I think he is a bit potty now.

There are some very pertinent criticisms of Jordan Peterson here, but I still cannot understand why he is still so admired by you. He may be gifted with a formidable mind but I would say that he does not appear to be able to use it. What comes across to me is a lack of mental discipline. Trying to listen to him, or read his popular book, is a trial. Peter Hitchens described his 12 Rules for Life book as being something in which his thoughts slide about on the page like mental porridge, and I have to agree. (It’s one of the very few books that I have thrown away.). I used to really enjoy listening to him but he has become less intelligible and less clear over the years. Ill health and various stresses have probably taken their toll, and there would be little wonder in that given the public hostility that has been shown him. I don’t know what he brings to the public forum.

I think Jordan Peterson is internally conflicted re Psychology, INTELLECTUALISM, Academia....vs Spirituality ! Until/if he can let go of his lifetime investment in thinking & living from the psychology world view (which we were inundated with at university...for me...late '60's -70's)....he will not be able to fully shift to living Christianity/Catholicism ...... not sure he really wants to ! He is however a 'tortured soul' still searching, driven...so many can idenrify with him ! Maybe someone like a Bishop Barron....can assist him in dropping some willfullness, some ego, enough to trust God, & not try to do it on his own with his own intelligence ! He probably can still help jolt some people out of their comfort zone....help them start WAKING UP !

Maybe by not using the theological language he is a bridge between many people and the Church.

So glad to see this wasn't a JP-CU love-fest.

a) Metaphysics is a specific term - it's not just a fancy word for a perspective! b) Lex Orandi: Lex Credendi: Lex Vivendi is the correct order - the basis of reality is knowledge informs the Intellect; if you want to mess with this & impose Idealism's illegitimate children of phenomenology & existentialism? Get back to study & learn the basics in dogmatic theology. c) PLEASE - If you don't comprehend the three stages of the spiritual life? For God's & all our sakes please go & learn about them; rather than using them as a 'cognoscenti' sound-bite! Try Garrigou Lagrange's book! d) Jordan Peterson's psychology lectures on KZfaq reveal much more than his tour lectures.

Evil in the name of God is not OF God! it’s the people who within the Church or come to the church that hide within the church till they cannot put on their fake sacrificial face to their misconduct or sin. We must pray for them they are judged by a much greater higher or different standard than those of us Laity. We are to pray with humility and love for them to beg for mercy and grace for their souls.

Careful guys, you are taking too long to quaff the amber nectar.

Maybe one of these days Peterson could make a decision rather than this back and forth pseudo intellectual game he likes to play. His bravado leads people to believe he's no nonsense. But bravado ain't real. At the very least I wish people would just decide what they believe on their own rather than caring what Peterson or any other KZfaq famous person thinks

Prevarication by Peterson? Yes, of course. He still wants you to buy the book. If he explains his conclusions in the lecture, there is no need for anyone to buy the book. So he has decided to dance around all the big issues, lay out the conondrums, the opposing arguments, and set you up to buy the book to resolve all this.

is Catholicism "priveleged" ????

I think you could do it and better than Peterson! He frustrates me with his inability to go past the psychological in regard just about anything.

Some day he'll be regarded as the Chesterton or Lewis of our age.

Peterson is a "prophet outside of Israel"....for now.

This obsession with Jordan Peterson is ridiculous. He talks a great deal about Jungianism and a psychological interpretation of biblical texts but there is nothing remotely Christian about him. He supports power and violence and always has done. Peterson should not be held up for admiration. The irony is that you completely miss truly great Christian intellects like David B Hart

I am very surprised you are wasting your time with JP. He's not here to help from a Christian perspective.

Jordan Peterson probably doesn't have the theological vocabulary, etc.

"Just get the damn vaccine" (JP). Now unsubscribing from this channel.

Bishop Mari will be the new fashionable theologian.