Thank you, Dr. Peterson, for restraining yourself from interjecting and interrupting while Mr. Harris was explaining his position. You're developing. This was a great clip from your interview with Sam Harris, even though I'm not a fan of him.

When you note that an academic has become unmoored, I would say that that's too passive a statement. I would say that that person has decided to actively reject any framework for morals and has given up on living a moral life.

What an amazing conversation! Thank you for sharing ❤

I feel like Harris tries to argue literally and Peterson tries to argue philosophically. It’s an awkward dance.

Sometimes when need to do more and think less. I had the wonderful opportunity to explore the back country of Tajikistan. My interpreter was a 25 year old woman who spoke 5 languages. The farm she grew up on was just across the river from Afghanistan. She started learning languages because her dad thought it was important for her and her brothers to learn these languages. I am going to choose her side of the river for moral decisions over the taliban’s side of the river.

Thanks for allowing Harris to state his position and the background thereof. Now I have to find your response/follow up questions!

The cashier and I both paused for the spoiled brat screaming from the other side of the store… I said, “I’m convinced that the sound of freedom, is the sound of a kid screaming in the grocery store (or thrift store), but if someone doesn’t crack the whip, somebody else is gonna kill that kid.” She replied with a smile and a twinkle in her eye, “You know, some people wouldn’t want to hear that.” (I love old people.) 🤭

your videos are really good, the quality is increasing with every update🦁

In some cultures, they love their neighbor, and other cultures they eat their neighbor, which one is correct, and why?

Thanks for the video. Which book was the conversation in? Sam Harris has a bunch.

Perhaps read The Summa by Saint Thomas Aquinas. It’s all there. See if it resonates and makes logical sense.

The value of objectivity during a subjective experience.

I would like to add that when you read in the Bible it does actually talked about having slaves but it also does talking about setting the captives free. Here in America has been abolished yet we see it in so many other forms now especially with addictions and doctrines that bring people captive and these are the type of things that I would like to see loose from around the people's necks, or minds should I say. Have a great day

Awesome Thanks

Sam learns: Education does not equate morality. That is an IQ 95 realization. The question is, can he turn his vision onto himself as he believes the expert class above all else. He is a pure Scientism advocate.

sam harriss mind is kinda like mine in a way i can relate to his mind thinking and thoughst very deep in its own way

What if clarifying what we mean by “truth” could change the nature of ethical discussions? The fact / value problem reflects an understanding of true statements being correct descriptions of an external reality independent of human perception. The post-modern insight that displaces that understanding is often expressed as “truth is just a social construct”. But this simply reflects the failure of post-modernism to turn the insight back on itself. Truth is not _just_ a social construct-the pejorative spin is a false analogy comparing a more insightful concept of truth with a naive concept of truth that doesn’t exist. Understanding truth as a “social construct” destroys the fact / value illusion. Everything we believe to be true has an intrinsic relationship to human effort-and effort reflects intention, desire. Reasoning about how we collaborate more effectively, rather than injure or kill each other, is clearly subject to fact-based argument and falsifiable conclusions: an objective secular ethics.

Chomsky talks of the creative use of language. The ability to construct an infinite number of sentences with a finite set of characters and sounds. Galileo and Descartes were equally astounded by this as were others. Another key aspect of this is the ability of one to understand the utterances of the other. A marvel to behold considering every utterance is always unique. Chomsky… “In the Discourse on Method, Part V, Descartes argued that the creative use of language marked the distinction between human beings and other animals, and between human beings and machines. A machine may be impelled to act in a certain way, but it cannot be inclined; with human beings, it is often the reverse.” It’s hard to know what is going on here. When organisms like these two get together much of the above gets turned upside down. Are they “inclined” to create sentences unique to the situation that in fact no one else can understand without lying to oneself? Or are they “impelled” to butcher the gift the language faculty has given us that enables the kind of discourse most of us enjoy? Given that language is the faculty that distinguishes us from all other beasts and machines, one wonders what in fact these two are. What they are doing here doesn’t seem to match up with what the language faculty bestowed upon us. Perhaps theirs is a mutation of sorts that will just die out given that the incoherent gibberish escaping from their oral sphincters seems to hold little to no real advantage in this world. Although… It’s at least some evidence that markets along with capitalism, lobster inclined dominance hierarchies and many other abhorrent societal structures that privilege the few over the many don’t give a rat’s toss bag about who gains from whatever horrendous insidious self obsessed snake oil idiocy a couple of third rate “daw to daw” sales persons have to sell. Hey, it’s a living.

Where can I find the full video

So what exactly was Sam’s point? That really smart people have lost the plot? Well said Sam lol

Can someone please tell me what exactly is the view or opinion of sam harris on this matter? I am not sure if i fully get what he wants to convey. The language in dr petersons videos is sometimes hard to fully understand for a 20yo from switzerland

Something has changed in this man. He no longer looks like ben stiller... Hes become his own entity. Well played samuel of harris

Value is subjective, so is morality, which is of course, my subjective opinion.

True Morality is God given

"Morality has to relate to the suffering and well being of conscious creatures". As a Christian, I think Sam is pretty close to the target on this point. I think he's just one step removed from the true target which is relationship. As a Christian, I would say that morality has to relate to the quality of interaction between conscious free beings (i.e. relationship). And high quality interactions between conscious free beings are the only thing that can "bear good fruit" in people's lives. Everything else is downstream of that, which is to say that well-being and suffering are downstream of the quality of interactions between conscious free beings. Love and truth together are what facilitate high quality interaction.

I like them both , even if they change their thoughts , they are evolutions their own opinions , fair enough . I like Harris , I like JBP , together , better , I’d like to see Dawkins though

What are our only common quests, the ones we all look after for ourselves and our community? Not to get caught for lies ? Cheating? Looting and wasting,..., are no sustainable behaviours. Earth Truth and Love are our ordinary, natural, common and essential needs, humankind's treasure/jewel, our only values of interest. All the rest leads to division, which is the main rule for casts of robbers advertising capitalism.

Just to play Devils advocate to Sam Harris's view: If one could simply measure the amount of suffering or happiness of a being at any given moment and optimize to minimize suffering and maximize happiness in the moment, isnt the likely outcome a satiated and dull existence, or even worse: Something that looks like addiction? Suffering and happiness are never really balanced, and it takes a spike in one to create a spike in the other, it seems. For example, delayed gratification may look like suffering in the near term to obtain less suffering and more happiness in the future. Instead, one may optimize for the least amount of suffering and most happiness across time and population and span it out to an infinite horizon (e.g. across generations and accounting for impact on others' states of being). This brings us back to a religious viewpoint for bearing the maximum load for the greater Good.

Sam go talk with Jay dyer please..

Isaiah 61:1-11. Hebreo 4:12.

yes Sam, the world is full of people with all types of beliefs, religious or otherwise and there's immorality that comes from every background, religious or otherwise.

Sam Harris simple assumes that he is right and can't see it.

I just realized Sam Harris is basically a secular proto-Buddhist who hasn't taken the leap to actually commit to the religious aspects of it. I assume he opposes communism and excessive materialism which is the natural extreme that an overly anti-religion worldview gravitates towards, so maybe it would be more productive to prod him in the direction of Buddhism rather than Christianity which is too irrational, dogmatic, etc. for him and others who think like him. But Buddhism lacks most of the things that push people away from Christianity, and is very enticing to rational intellectual types because it's more flexible to comport with reality as it's revealed to us through the scientific method, etc. but is still intuitive, transcendent, mysterious, and has all the other positive characteristics of traditional religion. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bp9hgLKqvqjFlI0.html

Pass

what about the yizidi

This should prove to Sam that even the enlightened Godless people can be corrupted and can do all the bad things that he lays at the feet of religion.

I don't know about that. I would argue the average female "oppressed" under the Taliban with her husband and five kids is objectively happier than your "free, liberated" 40-year-old woman living in an American city with her two abortions, cats and wine. It really comes down to perspective and what you value, and not all peoples throughout history and geography will value the same things. So the academic that countered Harris was correct.

And Sam can't see the dots connecting his thesis these many years to the educated person unmoored from any vision of objective moral value.

You talking too me? If so your deduction is true Jordan’s nice nalasys.

Is morality objective? It depends on your usage of the word.

I love Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson and I especially love when they record themselves hanging out. However I’m sick of Sam hating on trump and Elon musk. I don’t watch him anymore or follow him because of this :(

The only objective morality is authenticity. Let your inner truth shine, whether primarily selfish or selfless. Be real. May the fittest survive.

How do you have morals without religion?

Dear Dr Peterson and Sam, May I remind you both of Sir Paul Nurse elegant definition, 'That the living thing can acquire purpose: purpose to be better adapted in the lifestate it finds itself in". Therefore, anything that blocks, impedes, stops the living thing from acquiring purpose is bad, negative, evil. (Second elegant rule: K.I.S.S! 😅)

Btw how can Sam say science has no premise in morals. Psychology sociology behavioral science ethics crime laws etc..

why do dialectics work?

I do think morality is real and objective, but I'm not sure we can reduce the ideas of good and evil to that of mere suffering vs pleasure, or really anything else other than themselves. At the foundational level at least. Which is why consequentialism/utilitarianism doesn't work. Is suffering really the ONLY thing we consider bad? Is pleasure really the ONLY thing we consider good? Surely not. I guess a counter to this could be to broaden the definitions of suffering and pleasure, but it would be broadened to the point of meaninglessness and relativity. And to think that these concepts can be fully measured scientifically is beyond arrogant. Just to give people an idea on the position I'm coming from, I think Deontology combined with intuitionism is the only theory of morality that even comes close to fully capturing what morality is to us.

Wait is sam harris starting to bieve that subjective moral relativism and post modern doctrine is absolute nonsense? Is this really happening? Finally hes seeing the circular baseless logic is infact baseless.

3rd

Sam is coming to realize that morality is not an opinion.

Sam looks wounded.

sam harris - no thanks

Humans and animals are not on the same moral plane….and I’m an animal lover!

The Taliban have it wrong? Thankfully I have such rigorous intellectual introspective reflections to help me determine that maybe throwing the gays off roofs might be a no no morally. How could have I possibly known until just now?

If the goal is to live as close to as how Mohammed did, they do.

People who stop believing in God and therefore stop believing in objective morality have got it precisely backwards. Your undeniable sense that some things are objectively morally wrong suggests some ground for morality independent of human preferences. Many philosophers conclude that this ground must be God. If you’re a moral realist-which, if pressed far enough, you almost certainly will show yourself to be-then whether you realize it or not, you’re also an implicit theist.

I believe that we are ALL partially moral and partially immoral ... and that leaves us on a level "playing field ... without any ability to point fingers at others. Don't you agree?

Can you guys stop thinking for one second????

Why is he only concerned with suffering and happiness? What about the species surviving and becoming something greater? The more you conquer the natural world, the less obstacles you have to satisfying your base animal desires. If you decide to rest on your laurels and be completely epicurean or hedonistic about everything at that point, you just decide to stop existing over time. You have to impose goals and constraints on yourself that fxrce you to continue evolving deliberately. Elon Musk would be a way better person to ask about this than Sam, I think, although Sam has a lot to offer on the front of confronting toxic ideas that spread virxlly and vxxlxntly like the ones he talks about here (woke mind vxrus, as well as the religion so scary that Matt Walsh forgot to put at the absolute top of his victim hierarchy pyramid a few weeks ago). Elon essentially constructed his own personal religion of trying to make humanity live forever (basically ad hoc religious Daoism on a collective scale), and then also bought into the simulation hypothesis (not to be confused with Simulation Theory) stating to him effectively that the odds we're living in a simulation are immensely higher than the odds we're not, which creates its own sort of Pascal's Wager. The latter wager that we're most likely in a simulation allowed him to construct his own secular version of acting as if God exists, similar to how you more directly say you do. Elon's belief also tells him that the simulation would most likely have to be testing something, or they wouldn't be running it, and thus that creates a sort of vaguely Calvinistic salvation-by-works mentality in him, maybe trying to get the optimal outcome in this instantiation of simulated reality, or whatever else he might believe. You'd have to pry the details on that out of him personally; I can't speculate much further beyond that. Elon probably has a lot to say about the woke mind vxrus as well.

Sam Harris? 😳🙃🤪This is a Babylon Bee spoof...right?

Sam Harris. Not a great place to go for morality issues.

I wish i could watch this, but I just can't. Seeing that Sam Harris guy, he has the WORST case of TDS. To the point where as i say, i can't even watch him talk lol. Now I have SHDS.

It’s time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure why this colonialism superiority attitude and referring to Afghans and Islam. A typical talking points by a bankrupt trying to sound intellectual.

“Science “ literally does not know up from down- gravity. Neither do these ‘ philosophical ‘ wanna be wits.

Any credibility Harris had is long gone.

Jordan, go on your knees in front of Jesus.

The collective west suffers from self-hatred.

Boooring

Hey Peterson - I supported your right to free speech vociferously and will continue to do so. Regardless you have not said anything about the Israeli atrocities over Gaza. If you don't even get that right, you are about as complicit as Netanyahu.

I Ssssam me smart. I have TDS 🥸