I’ll have to give it a look, regardless the issue is more so the failure point and then having to service it whilst in the middle of other things

bro 5-7k round count change the o rings twice a year for the average man and you are fine @@autonomousdefense

I was surprised with how dry the buffer in the video was, I expect a responsible gun owner to make sure their firearms are properly lubricated and taken care of. I'm always giving my friends shit for not lubricating their guns and then complaining about reliability issues.

@@Simply709 You think im gonna handle the buffer in hand while its soaking wet in lub? its not in the gun and im talking about it. It was wiped dry..............

@@autonomousdefense Yeah, actually. it doesn't need to be completely submerged and dripping in lube, Nobody is asking you to stick it in the 55 gallon tub of lube that your boyfriend keeps next to your bed to make a video. But any responsible gun owner would at least put a thin layer of some sort of CLP on their tools to keep them from rusting. And by how dry that buffer looked I'm assuming it sat dry for a few days. You should never leave tools just sitting dry, especially gun parts. Its literally one of the first things you learn in gunsmithing school. Unless you went to SDI, then they teach you how to wipe your ass.

Yeah whats wild is most civilian rifles exceed mil-spec requirements because we dont buy what is effectively the cheapest mass produced versions of our rifle's internal components. its almost like there is a difference between BCM, LMT, PSA, and M&P rifles.

I was an armorer, and if you abused your rifle like that, you would have gotten a counseling statement! Plus, i would have NEVER let you sign it back in….

@@JIMMYJAMES156821 "I was an armorer" I hope you don't take this personally because I've got no way of telling your actually experience level but I've seen people who shouldn't have a drivers license call themselves "Armorers" I've met men employed as armorers and "Gunsmiths" and I've watched dudes break customers guns, incorrectly assemble them, or install optics incorrectly. Extremely basic shit even in the military you can have dudes forget to torque barrel nuts being an "Armorer" means nothing, at all. to even state that like it gives you knowledge might as well be an admission you've never field tested equipment heavily. judging from the multiple comments you didnt even watch the entire video through to the end before asking questions or making statements.

Or......you could buy a cheaper car that does the job better and doesnt need any of that. We're trying to make something more reliable not less. if im not mistaken the O ring round count limit isnt stated up front by JP on the product page so youre gonna find out by breaking it, not by having prior knowledge.

@@autonomousdefense you definitely should not purchase a SCS if you do not know what the intended purpose of it is (hint: it isn't just about some cheese-grater noise). But in any case - yeah i guess sometimes the world doesn't hold your hand. Maybe look at the o-rings with your eyeballs once every now and then - and replace them when they start to show wear. Or... just throw up your hands in confused desperation, throw in the towel and call it a bad product because you don't understand it. lol

@@regishevro971 So when the o ring failed it was during a 4 day outdoors training event were around 2000 rounds were fired and the stoppages that were occurring happened under nightvision in the middle of a multi man drill. Basically the worst possible time for a gun to go down and the issue couldnt be resolved. you might get a second or third shot off before the o ring caused another failure so your semi auto rifle is now a bolt gun which is also causing magazine feeding problems. its a bad product because it doesnt solve anything a standard 50$ buffer system cant handle for the cost of around 200$. Practically speaking this product does nothing. You spent extra money for something that causes problems that didnt exist.

@@regishevro971 Its a bad product if you intend to actually use your gun to get good with your gun so that you actually are a competent shooter.

@@autonomousdefense well, first off - completely your fault for not maintaining your equipment. If you've made it this far in life and still didn't know that o-rings were wear items, that's on you. Second off - if you're putting a $140+ buffer spring into a rifle solely to eliminate a “sproing” noise on the backend of a rifle that launches supersonic projectiles out the front end then… well, I don’t know what to say to you. If you’re just building a gucci gun for the sake of building a gucci gun - then by all means, go ahead. Most adults are probably aware that o-rings are wear parts and won’t have the same experience you did. The functional reasons to use a JP SCS are: 1) to facilitate using a JP VMOS, for all the reasons you would want to use a VMOS. 2) competition guns - SCS weights and springs are easily adjustable and allow you to tune a high-end race gun with mass instead of gas alone.

7,000 rounds is an awfully short lifespan.

I like you.

they only goes for $70 buck

I understand all that. The point I’m making is self evident. There are plenty of guns on the market and the ones people use are the ones that can go the longest with the least amount of maintenance so long as the weapon is lubricated. This is why glocks and their design replaced everything on the market when it came down to practical use. People sacrifice speed or weight for consistency and reliability.

Same. I love that JP started making an A5 specific spacer for people like us who kept their A5 extension when they upgraded to the SCS.

Yeah but he's a speed freak and he's going to pinch his finger an slow him down, speed isn't everything and isn't really necessary much of the time unless you are running from cover to cover. situational awareness is more important and when coupled with superior marksmanship skills will produce excellent results. the buffer assembly looks like it's been run dry for quite a while or the wrong lubricant.looks like a axle shaft that's ran dry just before it gets hot turns blue and snaps. seven thousand rounds is lot of ammo somebody's got deep pockets. I've watched enough of those videos on KZfaq and other sites online that are about "training" to me most of them appear to be more like how much ammo can we waste and how much noise can we make with very little situational awareness or focus on marksmanship or maybe I should say making the rounds count. in a bad situation ammunition is a very finite resource it's your job to make the other guys waste his ammo and loose the fight and run away...or try to...he might trip and fall down lol

Again, The volume of shooting was related to the class it was put through, it was lubed plenty, O-ring split and seized the action. the gun was cleaned and lubed repeatedly and it continued to fail due to the O-ring floating around in the tube. Again the most significant failures occurred under NODS in the dark making field servicing problematic. Standard system works fine.

“If it’s stupid and it works it isn’t stupid” Bro this gun manages to maintain 3 sighting systems and it’s still an NVG gun. Pretty happy with it.

Lol

No u

I was just thinking the same thing. 😂

Appreciate the feedback, glad the information was of value.

I have not, this experience really makes me wanna just go with the old reliable H2 silicon spring set up. Might fuck wit the Vltor A5 at some point.

​@@autonomousdefenseThe tubbs flatwires are legit. Very flat, very durable, extra simple

So something that isn’t ok for a rifle that would actually be getting used for the purpose a rifle is intended for isn’t ok but if it’s for something not actually being used like it’s meant to then it’s ok? I think you answered your own question.

@@autonomousdefense No there is other uses for rifles than then a service rifle, but i see on their website they sell these in their duty and patrol rifles, i guess if you followed the manufacturers service guide line and changed the O ring at 5k, and not complaining about it at 7k you would not have issues, your lack of maintenance is not JP or the O-rings fault

5k is like the baseline test for most reliable weapons. that isnt a lot of ammo.

Regular carbine works perfectly fine

Yup

When someone on the internet says buy once cry once I've already checked out knowing they don't shoot more than 1000rnds a year

Doesn’t matter you don’t have to replace your regular springs on a buffer at 7k rounds dude. That wasn’t the gripe. The gripe is this can cause failures in the gun and ultimately the whole buffer can destroy itself. It’s a bad design made for a non existent problem. If you believe in the silent spring to begin with you aren’t very knowledgeable in the platform.

@@starxlord9856this is false maintain your gear this is just simple maintenance

With that much shootings I'm sure your changing out your barrel as well often.

He probably never changes the oil in his car😂😂

Mil-spec. shouldn’t make a difference, like if you’ve got a longer tube your suppose to put a quarter into the back to fill the empty space void.

@@autonomousdefense yeah, I was thinking they were a little wider. I looked it up and they are “a little” wider- meaning 0.03” so not much at all. lol

Nah. I want something that will last more than 6k rounds. Ofcourse you can fix it, but the less failure points, the better.

Don't disagree with him, he'll have an emotional meltdown lol..

Yes actually, standard spring and a H2 buffer or appropriate weight based on the build. I actually revisited this rabbit hole of tuning guns based off the buffer system and oh boy. The vltor A5 and BCM MK2 systems might be gigantic crocks of shit. Weirdly enough if you look deep enough into it. It appears flat wire springs and higher mass H3-H4 buffers might actually accomplish the same thing JP, vltor, BCM, and giessele. Claim to do with their proprietary recoil systems. It’s really weird how all of these companies all tried accomplishing the same thing. I think I’ve found more people using springco springs and flatwire springs than people who actually use the vltor. Eventually I’ll put out another video about It if I find anything of significant value from trying something other than a standard buffer and spring again. I’ve got a feeling it won’t make that much of a difference.

I fully understand you can press it down to get it in and out but now you need something thin enough to easily get it out of the way. Again, their own instructions tell you to remove the retaining pin.

Yeah, I get. People always making you do more work because they don't give you enough credit that you might actually have the dexterity to do it the easy way. I use instruction sheets to make sure I have all the pieces. I saw one guy who said you could just leave the retaining pin out. That works fine until you want to quick change to a traditional spring and H2. I only have one of these in a range gun. Not anything I would do serious work with. Thanks for the video.

Realistically after switching back to a normal H2 and spring I don’t see the point of switching to aftermarket buffers.

Power to you, if you like it and you wanna use it that’s cool. This was a longevity test to see what failed and how it failed and what failed is a problem that doesn’t “need” to exist. I…do….not….like….creating…..problems. If this system was actually DRASTICALLY better than a standard buffer system you could make the arguments it’s worth the problems but it isn’t. Muzzle brakes have a more significant effect on recoil than this, triggers have a more significant effect on how well and how fast you can run the gun, optics have a more significant effect on how fast and effectively you can run the gun. What this thing does is insignificant unless you’re tuning more than just the buffer system and at that point what you do with the gas system, the ammo, the muzzle, the barrel, all of that shit is what is altering your recoil and use of the weapon. Not the buffer.

I’m gonna say no. Springs wear with use and 10k rounds will wear just about anything out. Just keep an eye on wear.

It wasn’t being used for competition and competition weapons are an entirely different conversation. Competition guns are meant to be as fast and recoil efficient as possible to the point only specific ammo works and they’re almost unsafe mechanically. This gun was extremely lubed at all time it’s never dry.

So you can see how using this equipment how it’s meant to be used could be hard on it? What a nothing comment 😂

@@RandomWrongDeletion You created a oxymoron with that genius reply. Bravo tactical ted.

Tactical Ted because I use my equipment how they’re designed, hell yea! Rob Collin’s sits on the range and cry’s about other men doing what they want 😂

@@RandomWrongDeletion You are absolutely right! Your manly bravado have me weeping in the fetal position until I pass out from oxygen deprivation! Tactical Ted!! Saving us all from untactical gear and a untactical lifestyle with his tactical tacticalness. Thaaaaank goodness! If you think LARPing on a flat range is "testing your gear as it's meant to be used" you are a fool.

@@robkilcollins310 It sounds like you’re too broke to afford decent training and you’re jealous of better men who take the time to fine tune their craft. To each their own, you genuinely seem like the kind of guy who shouldn’t leave the flat range.

Cleaned it multiple times. The issue comes from the o-rings breaking and JP confirmed the round counts for when they break.

​@@autonomousdefense when cleaning did you coat the orings with silicone grease?

Cleaned? yes, it was normally cleaned every 500-1000 rounds fired due to all the suppressor sludge. the sludge itself never caused failure. a casing might have gotten stuck in the chamber if I was using steeled cased at the time as the increased friction of that casing tends to do that if you dont keep it lubricated but that happened maybe 4 times in the 6000-7000 rounds fired. The way I actually figured out the O-ring was causing the failures was repeatedly deep cleaning it in quick succession and the gun failing even while clean.

I specifically asked JP this when it first broke because I had the same question. According to them if you don’t have the O-rings the impact of the weights will snap the screw holding it together.

Like I know they can fail, I just haven’t seen it and the beefed up pins exists for a few dollars

I traded the standard pin for an HK416 pin, then swapped the standard spring with a JP polished spring and a Spike's T1 buffer. Costed about 60 all together. Cheaper and it's quieter. @@autonomousdefense

“Nope. Tires solve a problem that doesn’t exist and I don’t like creating new problems. My wagon wheels are creaky and bumpier but they are cheap and replaceable and what everyone else uses and they work just fine! DO NOT IMPROVE ON SOMETHING THAT ISN’T A real PROBLEM, PERIOD”

But like.......why even use it at that point?

Anyone who skips through a video and makes absolute statements that aren’t even said in the video probably shouldn’t post a comment making themselves look stupid. God forbid anyone actually claims the original design that’s changed very little in the last hundred years is somehow superior than gimmick products nobody fucking uses.

​@@autonomousdefenseHave u read these comments? Im not the only one who thinks you're a 🤡 And these are YOUR followers

Low expectations

@@autonomousdefense how many rounds do you feel it should last ?

@@Nick-ik7vr 7,000-10,000 if not more. it isnt just about the round count its about what is failing. it should be the physical spring doing all the work that gets noticeably sluggish from being so heavily used rather than something else in the tube stopping the gun.

@@Nick-ik7vr mind you that replacing a normal spring is laughably cheap and laughably easy almost like this shit is the way it is because dudes figured this out a LONG time ago.

O-rings stayed oiled the entire time

The audience my content is geared to are people who train and part of my goals are to get people to train. Equipment of any kind that doesn't hold up to a basic training regimen is of little value. if you want something that looks good and is fragile you should be collecting wrist watches not gun parts. 5000rd is a very low round count.

200$ is something if its less effective than the original system that costs less than half that. Yes, I expected wear and tear eventually. that is literally the point of the test, to see what and how it failed. yknow what you call wasting money on something that objectively brings no benefits and has more cons than it does pros? Stupid, you call it stupid. Its as if people don't understand just because something exists doesn't mean its actually a good design when used practically this is the entire reason people review and test products. Im advocating you spend your money on: Solid optics, Solid triggers, Gas systems, and muzzle devices. Literally all of those items have a more significant effect on how the gun runs and how you run it than this recoil system. Yknow what also help you spend more money on thousands of rounds to train? not spending it on products that fail.

Bolts never had problems locking to the rear. What you’re talking about has never been an issue nor is it even the subject of this review or the problems with this product. Regardless of the pressure this system was fired suppressed and unsuppressed and the system failed at the exact round count JP claimed it would which again, they do not openly tell you when you purchase the product. And it’s not about fine tuning, fine tuning is a gas port drilled properly to allow the gun to cycle and fire reliably. If you have a properly built “duty” style rifle using a BCM upper your failure point shouldn’t be a recoil spring assembly.

Ok but like, and hear me out…….what about less maintenance……with a system that doesn’t have bolt bounce like the honey badger…….and doesn’t break in a specific way that will stop the gun running entirely. Real talk if you want a honey badger and a gun that does honey badger things fucking do it. That is a very specific build that should be run 300blk. But if you want a rifle that can handle extreme abuse with the highest reliability, there is a reason dudes figured all this shit out literally several wars ago.

Maybe it’s just because I’ve shot tens of thousand of rounds through AKM style guns and shotguns and bolt guns because the AR15 is relatively low recoil and smooth already and I genuinely cannot see a difference between this system and the standard in a practical sense. Like sure it feels different, that hasn’t changed anything as far as how the gun shoots. Surefire duel port, absolutely. Silent capture system? No.

The issue is primarily it failing when you really need it not to. Again since replacing the system with the good ole H2 buff and spring it’s performing just as well if not better because of the extra feedback from vibration and now it has one less failure point. Like there really isn’t any justification for using this product at all. You can still configure competition guns and suppressed rifles extremely well without the use of this system.

In eliminating the buffer retaining pin it removes a failure point that doesnt have a round count, those things can just shit the bed sometimes and when that happens its an equally bad failure. JP's o-ring failure is also 100% preventable via basic maintenence of the system you spent $150 on. Replace o-rings every 5000 rounds, theyre $8. I've never used the sproing to help myself shoot, so I cant comment on that, but it seems its probably not worth maintaing a failure point for.

@@MedicalTape_xX fair point, I’ve never personally seen that retaining pin break and if I’m not mistaken companies sell beefed up versions of that pin.

Endurance