Except the Methodists that “preserve Biblical standards” just surrendered their traditional denomination that is in possession of beautiful historic churches, seminaries and other resources to liberals … they ran away in the face of a fight.

.

A denomination is just a collection of like-minded people, but this isn't limited to similar theology. Cultural practices feature prominently in denominational distinctives.. What kind of songs are sung? What type of musical instruments are allowed (if any)? What clothing is allowed (or banned)? Grooming styles? Hair length, make up, beards? How are violators punished (if at all)? These shared opinions about culture are unrelated to salvation. They are simply human preferences. Which is fine, as we all have them. And birds of a feather, flock together.

Stick to what Scripture says.

@@withamarshview1436 stick to Scripture.

@@EE-qn4ks Please tell me what scriptures you think my comment violated.

Martha Canady.... Well said and Well put . ✝️

I left 47 years ago.

I left 15 years ago about the time I fully grasped what “ covert narcissism “ is and realized I had been wallowing in it all my UMC life up to that point. It was also about that time I realized that the UMC will not only not get better but worse. Bowen theory says that the more stress a family or group feels ( like the stress of declining revenue and membership in the UMC) the more a group becomes who they really are at their core. I expected the UMC to become more autocratic and more toxic and they have lived up to that the past 15 years and it will only get worse.

It was that natural result of apostates leaving the Church that Christ founded. Your heart lead you to the right OUT door.

Hope you became Catholic..

@@bill7101 Why?

That’s right. It’s really become just an extension of the democratic national party progressive movement.

The liberals have been trying for many years, like decades, to remove the explicit statement against homosexuality. Like many denominations its gotten riddled with rot and weakened to the point of a hollow shell. Do not paint all UMC churches with the same brush as there are still a few that believe and preach traditional Wesleyan. It is all dependent upon individual pastors whether a congregation is solid or spiritually incoherent. The two types can be 5 miles away in the city. So deciding on a UMC church is a roll of the dice. Its best to split up, let the liberals cluster under one umbrella and the conservative traditional Wesleyans be under their own distinct label. I will be under the conservative & traditional so as not to be confused with the liberal non-biblical "church".

@@jetpilot3714 It looks a whole lot like Black Liberation Theology, a Marxist organization. Obama has been a member for over 20 years. I’ll stick with the new Global Methodist Church. Looks awesome!

@@katherinepll tell me more about the Global Methodist Church. :)

@@katherinepll You have no authority to speak on our heritage or theology if you are not a Black person involved in this tradition or church so hush and stop spreading lies. You all will label any and everybody you hate or disagree with as “marxist”. You probably couldn’t write a three sentence summation of marxism anyway without google. Stop.

And what exactly makes gay marriage a sin in a way that hetersexual marriage isn't?

@Matzu-Music For me and my beliefs, it's a matter of faith. I don't give a f#$% if anyone thinks I'm a hypocrite. How I express my faith and what I believe is between me and God. In the UMC, we don't take anyone else's belief system. We are encouraged to find our own by questioning and exploring the Bible. I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation of my beliefs. But let me say this, when I was looking for acceptance in the LGBT+ community, they turned their back on me just because I wasn't lesbian enough. My church accepted who I was and never asked or pressured me to become straight. In my life, it was the church that was more open minded then the LGBT+ community.

Read Romans. Its that simple but if you don't follow scripture you could read the entire Bible its not going to make any difference anyway. Satan will welcome you that guaranteed.

@westrotter7847 hate is also a sin, so if I'm going to be in that line so will you.

To God sin is sin. We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God! Jesus died on the cross in payment for our sins, if you accept him as you Savior. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is a sin, but so isn't lying, cheating, swearing, etc. the list could go on forever. Jesus said all the commandments can be summarized into two. First love God with all your heart mind and soul. Second, love your neighbor! That about sums it up. I respect her position and agree that the church shouldn't in essence condone sin.

Yes, isn't it horrible? But every institution today is peecee to the hilt. Mark my word, even new allegedly traditionalist Methodist groupings will be shot through with this evil.

I think it fits them. Their commitment to diversity and hesitation to call homosexuality "incompatible" is all but a globalist dog whistle

@@scronx Traditionalism IS evil!

@@rstevewarmorycom That's totally wacky.

@@scronx No, more and more people understand that the church has always been wrong and the bible is garbage lies. "Traditionalism" IS the evil inherent in false phony religion and the lying bible.

True of many areas. As a member now of a more traditional Weslyan influenced church, Free Will Baptist, we are losing members to the mega- churches and more historically orthodox churches.

I believe he ment worldwide.

It does worldwide. However, American congregations by a narrow majority support acceptance of LGTBQ+ as pastors, and support nontraditional marriage. At the international conference it was United Methodist representatives from African nations who constituted a sufficient number to deny the progressives a win on the issue. If it were up to American UMCs only, these issues would already have been resolved in favor of LGTBQ+ membership in the clergy and nontraditional marriages. This is a very concise accurate summation of the situation as we all emerge from the Covid experience.

Absolutely. I posted a similar observation.

@@sarisigmund2115 In any case, membership figures in the US are greatly exaggerated. I would question worldwide figures as well until they are corroborated.

Agreed! You might wanna go back to 1800s and emphasize Ephisians 6:5

Agreed! They should join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Jesus started and has had an unbroken line of leadership led by the Holy Spirit from St. Peter to Pope Francis.

@@PianoForte9096 beg you pardon? The catholic church has nothing to do with God. It's full of abominations. Everybody who reads the Bible and has the holy Spirit can see that. Don't be fooled. Read the scriptures,repent of your sins and turn to Jesus and be baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and be filled with the Holy spirit(Acts 2:37-38)/John 3:5-7) Unless you are born again of the water and the Spirit you won't see nor enter the kingdom of God.

@@CalledUntoHoliness I was born into Protestantism and spent my teenage years trying to find the truth in every Protestant denomination, including non-denominationalism. I read through the entire Bible, was "re-baptized" by immersion by a Baptist missionary (though I had been baptized as an infant), went on mission trips, and was studying collegiate-level theology daily. Then, I found the history behind the Catholic Church and, one by one, found that their beliefs totally align with Scripture and Apostolic Tradition. Baptism by sprinkling dates to the Apostolic Tradition in the 1st century (see the Didache), and to be "born again of water and Spirit" is to be baptized. Baptism is not "in the name of Jesus Christ" alone, but "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," as Jesus directs in Matthew 28. To be Confirmed, as I was this Easter Vigil, is to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, just as the Apostles realized in Acts 8:14-17. I do repent of my sins to Jesus -- both privately and in front of a priest, who has been vested by Christ to forgive sins as a successor of the Apostles (John 20:19-23). Do you?

@@PianoForte9096 All I can say is keep reading the scriptures daily, fast and pray and repent and ask the Lord Jesus to lead you in all truth. It's not about being born in protestanism. You got to be born again. The baptist church is false also, they baptize wrong and do not believing in the infilling of the holy Spirit . The truth is not protestanism, the truth is Jesus Christ and his word. I am not preaching protestanism to you but I do warn you about the catholic church. This church is satanic and full of idolatry and perversion and vain traditions that contradict the word of God. Try to find a church that will baptize you correctly. In the name of JEsus Christ for the remission of your sins and ask the Lord to fill you with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in another tongue as in the day of pentecost (Acts 2:4,Acts 1:8, Act 2:38). God is pouring out his Spirit still and you need the Holy spirit to help you discern what is true and what is a lie. I will keep you in my prayers. Put not your trust in no organization but Christ and him only!

@@CalledUntoHoliness Any justification for, "the Catholic Church is satanic and full of idolatry and perversions and vain traditions that contradict the Word of God"? Most Baptists baptize correctly: "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". What they believe it does ("just a symbol") does not take away from the action itself. Je parle français, c'est mon deuxième langue. Notice that when "speaking in tongues" is named in Acts on the day of Pentecost, the result was that others could spontaneously understand the Apostles: "and each heard his own language." Your verses conveniently skip this detail. This gift of the Spirit was not given to many (see the writings of Paul) and is exceedingly rare nowadays, if not non-existent. In order to count, a "tongue" must be an understandable human language. You are right in that the Spirit is still being poured out today -- through the Sacraments, especially Confirmation, by which Catholics are sealed with Him. With prayer and the constant aid of the Holy Spirit, I joined the original Church that Christ founded.

God bless them for their courage and faithfulness in taking a biblical stand.

He is still in his grave. Just like when Jesus called to Lazarus and he came out of the tomb (not down from the sky), Wesley is asleep in the grave waiting for Jesus to call him out.

@@whitebeardInn Wesley was born of God. "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) "Because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:5, 7) This cannot be referring to the Holy Spirit, "for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39) Lazarus' death was BEFORE Jesus' Resurrection: That is why he was still in his body. Bless you!

@@whitebeardInn sorry my friend, Wesley is not in the grave. Just as when Jesus told the thief on the cross...”Today you will be with me in Paradise”. When Jesus died on the cross that day, He broke the curse of sin and death. He went down to hell and set the captives free. Those who served and worshipped Him all the way from Adam. All those who died and who lived for God. Including Wesley.

@@emmanintz6448 I can understand the confusion. Although 1 Thess. 6:16 quotes it as the resurrection of the dead will happen at Christ return...it also states that John saw the Matrys and the 24 elders in heaven already before Christ 2nd coming. I am still studying to find truth.

@@hots4jc Matt. 12:40: “for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” On the day Jesus died, he did not go to paradise, he went to the grave as proved by Matthew. In the original Greek, there was no punctuation. Commas, periods, etc, were added many, many years later. The sentence, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise” could just as easily have been, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise”. Just like we say, “Let me tell you right now, you better…”, Jesus was using “today” for emphasis like we would use “right now” for emphasis. The Bible tells us multiple times that we sleep in the grave between physical death and the resurrection. I’m not SDA or JW, I’m just a Christian that tries to read the Bible in context and take its meaning as straight forward as I can. Don’t allow your learned biases (many we were taught from childhood) to change what the Bible really says into something people want it to say.

Might I suggest the Catholic Church? We've got 2000 years of institution and tradition to protect us against modernism, not to mention the guidance of the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ.

@Esther "Does not follow or worship the True Messiah," huh? That's one I haven't heard yet. Is the True Messiah someone other than Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages? God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made? Because that's who Catholics worship.

@@SquirrellyFries I am sorry to say that I am unable to get past the repeated Catholic tolerance of covering up for pedophile Priests who have scarred children and took no real action to completely stop the possibility of.further abuse on other children at a later date. Simply moving around Priests to different areas and not prohibiting their access to children alone, showed no respect for innocent young children. The volume of victims that have come out is staggering. Even Nun's have come out revealing horrible torture practices along with rape by Priests that occurred over many years in Convents. Molestation by Priests on young children is the highest degree of possible betrayal. Not only are their lives shattered, but they are often left with no religion or faith to call upon as they grow older. Had the Pope and officials addressed this abuse immediately and with broad procedures to ensure abuse was addressed with prompt removal of offenders instead of simply relocating them to different places to reoffend, one could have worked to try to find resolution of this violating sin knowing children were safe from further abuse and counseling and legal avenues assured if around children. Satanic rituals involving children and child trafficking involvement ínvolving the Vatican and the Pope will be revealed in the near future. I feel for Catholic believers but do not know how the church will survive after proof is confirmed and made public without some monumental change in church procedures. I am sorry parishioners have also been so betrayed by Vatican City.

I can direct you to information and resources about the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod if you'd like.

Were the EUB's even given a voice in the UMC?

I believe that the United Methodist Church name came as a tip of the hat to both denominations, each getting a part of their name included. The bigger story is that the two dominations decided that they were compatible enough in doctrine that the merger would work well. Things went south after the merger and probably not because of it. I could be wrong...

The Methodist Church in the US split over the issue of slavery. So the pro-slavery side became the Southern Methodists. Years later they all decided to reunite so it became United Methodists. The pro-slavery Southern Methodists were more Calvinist leaning or sympathetic to Calvinist "theology".

@@baltichammer6162 The MEC and the MEC South reunited to form the Methodist Church (the term "episcopal" was dropped), and after uniting with Evangelical United Brethren, it became the United Methodist Church.

@@souveniehollande979 Thanks for that detailed info.

I don't think that's an accurate representation of the disagreement. A different interpretation of scripture does not mean there is a difference in beliefs about the inspiration or authority of scripture.

@@zacharydunn6577 Yes is because otherwise what is someone going to do with the plain reading of the text?

Dear@@zacharydunn6577, "different interpretation of Scripture does not mean there is a difference in beliefs about the inspiration or authority of Scripture." Not necessarily, however the two concepts (interpretation and inspiration or authority of Scripture) are strongly related ! There are many examples of personal interpretations that have a derogatory effect on the inspiration or authority of Scripture. Any time a personal interpretation, violates sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles to manipulate the understanding of Scripture, to conform to a presupposed ideological belief, Contrary to the norms of the Christian worldview, harm is done to the concept of θεόπνευστος (God-breathed Scripture) and the authority of God's Word. Funny how people think it is ok to have a variety of different personal interpretations, as if everyone in entitled to their own personal interpretation of Scripture. One of the very basic tenets of Christianity is to understand what God is trying to communicate in Scripture, not eisegetically inject our own perspectives into the interpretation process. It doesn't matter what we think Scripture is saying; what matters is what God is communication in Scripture. He is the author, so it is His perspective. That is why we teach hermeneutics and exegetical principles in our Sunday School classes, so people can learn the process of objective interpretation, to prevent our own personal interpretations of Scripture, that "tickle" our own ears, or manipulate Scripture to fit our ideas and beliefs. "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." (Rom. 12:2) It is obvious that God does not conform to the moral and ethical norms of our culture and society, instead the culture should conform to His standards. Humans are made in His image. It is completely wrong to recreate God in our image, to fit our cultural and moral standards. Be Well, DZ

@@Silverheart1956 you talk as if there is one true interpretation of scripture, but which of the hundreds of different interpretations is it? We wouldn't have the vast number of different groups of a Christians if it were so simple to know what the "true" interpretation was. Is it the Catholics that have it right? The United Methodists? The Episcopalians? The Southern Baptists? Two Christians can fully agree about the authority and inspiration of scripture and still disagree about how to interpret language that is at least two thousand years old and has been translated through multiple languages.

Dear@@zacharydunn6577, Great Question ! (by the way great name: Zachary) There was once a group of people admiring and commenting on a work of abstract art in a museum. One says "I think it is a meadow of wild flowers", another said "I think it is a stand of trees, a forest", Another said "oh, I think it is a group of cattails by a pond", and others told what they thought is was. Finally someone in the back spoke up and said, "Nope, you are all wrong ? The group wondered who is this rude person who is telling everyone that are wrong ? Who is he to judge our interpretations of the painting ? Some shouted, "Ok just tell us what you think it is". He spoke up and said "I know what it actually is, it is a group of people standing and watching balloons in the sky." Someone immediately remarked, "what makes you think you are the only one who is right ? The man remarked, "because, ... I am the artist who painted it." Who knows the correct interpretation of Scripture ? God does, because He is the one who wrote it. "All Scripture is 'θεόπνευστος' (God-breathed)" (2 Tim. 3:16) "but which of the hundreds of different interpretations is it? " Easy question ! It is God's interpretation, that is the true interpretation. The difficult issue is, how do we ascertain God's understanding and meaning of Scripture ? Obviously that is a little harder. Steps: 1. Attitude - Understand and accept you must desire to be intellectually honest and open in understanding what God's meaning for Scripture is and avoid injecting your own suppositions and presuppositions into the process. This is very difficult. Defending our own traditions, assumptions and bias, significantly hinders an honest, objective approach. 2. You must be a genuine Christian. It is difficult for the natural man to understand and discern Spiritual matters because they are Spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14) 3. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide your research and help you find God's understanding and meaning. 4. Follow sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles to maintain objectivity. Sadly, many Christians never take a course in hermeneutics and exegetical principles. That is one subject I teach in Sunday School (They are usually surprised when they discover I give tests). Funny how many people assume they need no training to learn how to interpret Scripture (but they need training in so many lesser things). Please tell me, would I be correct in assuming you have never had a course training you in hermeneutics and exegesis ? 5. Be thorough. Adequate research is really hard work, the more you dig in, the more complete your research will be. Many people simply do not conduct enough research and end up with a superficial, incomplete understanding. 6. Understand that we may not be able to understand and interpret every thing. Some things in history has been lost to time. However, sometimes we are able to rediscover some lost meanings through research. Examples : A. We have recently found the lost city of Ai (the one Joshua conquered) through the discipline of, archaeology. Many people questioned the historicity of Joshua's conquest because what we thought was Ai, didn't fit the time era. We had the wrong ruins, ... looking in the wrong place.. B. Koine Greek (the type of Greek the NT was written in) is different from classical Greek and some things in the NT didn't make sense because we where interpreting text based on the grammatical rules of classical Greek. Through grammatical studies we know much more about Koine Greek Grammar than we did 400 yrs. ago. For example the discovery of "Granville Sharp's Rule" has enlightened our understanding of a few passages (Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1). 7. Some things are more significant that other issues. If we use objectivity in our interpretation of Scripture, there should be very little disagreement in the "Primary Doctrines". These are the very significant, foundational teachings that separate Christianity from other religions. Interpretation of "Secondary Doctrines" are a little more difficult because there is more ambiguity in Scripture. These are more difficult to interpret because the Scriptures gives less information. "Secondary Doctrine" are what separates the different denominations within Christianity. So even though we may differ on these issues, we are united in the "Primaries". Of course, then there are the "Tertiary Doctrines". There can be lots of disagreement on these because of a lack of information to interpret by. These differences in understanding may exist within a local Church. Sorry I rambled, but a great question deserves a fairly adequate response. I hope this helps a little bit. Be Well, DZ

@David Rynkowski, I think they were alway more conservative. This shouldn’t affect other denominations.

I believe many Methodists in the US are unhappy as well with the changes in church policy. As someone who once attended the UMC this saddens me to see people who are lifelong members feeling abandoned as so many denominations go " progressive".

True... The idea of allowing sin to be a part of the church IS rather polarizing!

Dear Joseph Stine, True. Somethings should not be polarized, but there are some things that are legitimately polarized. Wisdom is knowing which aspects should and shouldn't be polarized. Be Well, DZ

@@Silverheart1956 The reverence of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do His commandments...." Psalm 110:10.

Dear@@saul2paul540 , Thank You, for your response, Thank you for your verse. It is so true; "reverence of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". Reverence of the Lord, is the foundation of the beginning of wisdom. Let's continue in growing our wisdom beyond the beginning into maturity. I like your previous comment. Sin in the church should be rather polarizing ! We should stand with God against anything that is contrary to His Standards. Those who stand with sin, stand against God and His standards. Be Well, DZ

Well it's literally impossible to read anything without your own cultural lens.

Actually I think more of their congregations will be outside of the US than in it (mainly in Africa)

@@kron5637 sounds about right.

Agree

The "scriptures" are a story, they are NOT real and never happened. Your god and jesus are myths!

That argument isn' particularly practical. At best, the only way to achieve such a thing is to firmly decide to just never call any other people without proper doctrine Christians or anything such as that. Otherwise there has to be some other distinguishing factor between true followers or Christ and heretics developed somehow, which has been denominations. If not that, we need some other way, I suppose just calling people heretics could work and would even be accurate, but I suspect it wouldn't be a good tool for reconcilation between groups.

@Mike Richards you sound like a member of the iglesia ni cristo. maybe not, but your belief that there is only one true church of christ is similar. if your church is the only true church of christ, it follows that the vast majority of humankind wiil end up in hell. how could you believe that god wills to save all people from hell if this is the case? it would have been better if god had not created any human being than have only a small portion of people to join him in heaven for all eternity, leaving the rest of humankind to eternal damnation. this kind of god is highly questionable and does not deserve to be worshipped and loved.

@@amadoramos5040 when you have the time to read the word of God, please, yes please read (Matthew 7:13-14 and Matthew 7:21-29). Those are Jesus' words. He specifically says most people will take the broad road. Few will take the narrow road. Why? Because most people choose to "choose to do it their way," regardless of what God's word says. Human traditions and opinions are more important to the masses of people. Jesus says a person must choose him over the closest family members we have on earth. (Matthew 10-34-39; Luke 14:26)

The A/G would be alongside the 4 Square et al

Southern Baptists began ordaining women then backed off as the denomination became more conservative and now there are indications it's swinging left again with recent debates on gay issues and women demanding openess in handling bad behavior of clergy. This too is part of the pandemics influence. Look at the religious turmoil in the church during the plague outbreaks in Europe.

The north-south merger between the Methodist Episcopal Church, Methodist Episcopal Church South and also the Methodist Protestant Church happened in 1939 to form the Methodist Church. The 1968 merger was between the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Church.

@@dmacc1206 Thank you for this information. I totally forgot about the UBC merger. When I was a child my grandmother would tell me stories of her childhood Sunday School class (in the 1920s) having little chairs that said Methodist Episcopal South. I love church history!

Great example Shelly. Imagine a Pastor saying "I'm going to continue drinking heavily and beating my wife because I was born that way. This is how God made me. I'm living out MY truth".

And not only would he stand up and say I am a murderer but he would also say that murdering is normal.

So where do we go if the UMC is going to be this way?

True. I assume you've stopped eating shellfish and mixing fabrics? Actually, Shelly, why am I listening to you? Women aren't to have a place of teaching over men, according to the Bible, so why are you commenting on this?

Yes - bc love between two ppl who just happen to be of the same sex is most certainly akin to murder. (-_-) Seriously, get a life. Or perhaps an update on Christ bc you clearly have nothing in common with him.

No, not new. Nothing new is true, and nothing true is new!

Oremus. Jesus is Lord. Stay In a state of Grace.

@Eremias Ranwolf The Holy Spirit

How true! That is what all this is about.😔

This is a theological issue not all age related. That is the big mistake denominations make and hence schisms.

Under 35 adult Christians, who are practicing, are much more traditional than over 50s. They might be dissatisfied, but not in the direction you think

@@kylejacobson9587 I was referring to the under 35 demographic in general - society at large.

Very much so

Yep. Most mainline denominations refuse to admit it but it is true!

AMEN

Keith, you really believe that? I’d guess you have not examined the beliefs and practices of the African church. Please, for your sake and the sake of those you impact, educate yourself on the topic instead of spewing easy bromides.

@@Jack-eo5fn You might be referring to the African Charismatic Church which I agree like charasmatic churches everywhere, can have some issues. But, J M, the UMC churches in Africa are operating by God's inspired, inerrant, infallable word and some of the UMC churches in America that are compromising into a secular culture could use some serious pointers from those people.

Aog is a cult

I agree. The word says that but the Methodist Church is not the house of God.

Ray Vick you were absolutely correct when you said "I knew more about scripture than that minister.." you were correct. Don't change

Ray Vick, actually your pastor was correct. For starters, see Ezekiel 16:49 - the sin of Sodom was arrogance, gluttony and greed. The men of Sodom wanted to protect their possessions against traveling strangers so they locked the city gates. When they heard that 2 angels were already inside the gates, they went to Lott’s house and demanded he bring them out so they could rape them. This was common punishment against invading armies. The men were raped and humiliated. Ezekiel tells you what the real sins were. “The people of Sodom were greedy, gluttonous, and arrogant. “ Sounds like most Americans today.

@@Jack-eo5fn There are other verses in scripture that deal with the subject. Try Romans, Leviticus, 1 Timothy.....

@@LC-ok5nw, of course. Everyone knows the verses. Don’t need to know what Paul said on the subject; tell me what Jesus said about it. Crickets.

@mineben256, actually Paul was a self proclaimed Apostle after his dream, but his authority was always the subject of disagreement among authentic apostles. You don’t get to have a dream about things you used to do and then make yourself king. If Jesus actually appeared to Paul in the sky, he would have instructed or called him to mission. But he did neither. As for Jesus utterances on any issue, it was 40 to 70 years after he died before any of the 4 gospels were written, which means we don’t know what he actually did or said about anything. Oral traditions are never considered to be reliable.

The UMC doesn't hold any kind of rights to the name Methodist, there are dozens of Methodist denominations. They wouldn't be able to stop the name Methodist from being used.

@@ReadyToHarvest -- thanks for the update.

Acts 11:26. Hmmmmmmm.

"Methodist" was originally a derogatory nickname for Wesley and his friends in the Holy Club at Oxford.

Anybody who has appropriated grace should never confess and ask for forgiveness. Asking for something that has already been given to you shows that you did not believe that it was in the first place. Thus, you have not appropriated grace through faith, and without it, you are lost.

How about considering the A/G or an ARC church

@@henrymagoun3230 exactly

Do it.

If they except the Holy Spirit stop practicing sin ask for give forgiveness like all Christian the Father Son Hoiy Spirit yes than fat people soldiers or astronauts can be Christian

@@columbusjustice5183 but they would have to stop being astronauts and fat people!

Excellent point.