I'm still convinced Dave is an alternate reality version of Agent Mulder who got into watches instead of the FBI

Yep. Many watch brands are ripping us off. Sometimes it really is mostly just the name.

Great video, you are speaking my language on watches over $1500, I really can't justify paying more for a watch than a used car I bought in 2017, and it only had 65,000 miles on it. I mean I would not feel comfortable going out with that much money on my wrist, I mean I have seen criminals kill for $1000 worth of merchandise. I have never spent mote than $500 for any watch I own and I am pretty satisfied.

I think a really interesting comparision would be an affordable watch with a Christopher Ward and a luxury watch like Tudor. See what the difference between the three are at vastly different price brackets.

Now you need a Blancpain 50 fathoms to do a 3-way comparison.😉

Dave- I think this might be one of the best videos you’ve made. I’ve watched you since the beginning and I’m loving the content! Keep up the good work, mi amigo!

Really enjoyed the photography in this video. The slow motion comparing the beat rates really showed the difference that is difficult for me to perceive at real time. Your view on watch value/ costs was well stated and lines up well with my view too. Thanks.

I think one thing you missed is marketing costs. Bands like Tissot and Hamilton, all the way up to Omega and Rolex spend tons of money on marketing,and this also factors into the price of the products they sell.

This was a FANTASTIC video! VERY WELL DONE!

I have the Spinnaker Fleuss and zero regrets. The build quality is great and it wears nicely on my wrist. I like Spinnaker a lot as a company, despite the China connection which I don't like. They do not take themselves too seriously, as in snobbery level, but their love of watches is obvious if you own one of them and they take pride in their workmanship in my opinion. I might even buy 5 Spinnakers instead of 1 Squale if I was faced with that choice.

I appreciate your help with picturing what is becoming a spending habit. I think I started by trying to find the Squale, but can’t stop collecting the Spinnaker.

A very good explanation on the differences between the watches and why they are priced so differently. I think you've done about as good of a job explaining it as anyone I have seen on KZfaq try and do that. I have owned watches ranging from $100 to $1,800. IMO once you start getting into the $1,000 range you start to noticed a big difference compared with a $300 or $500 watch.

Dave, one of your best videos! Good insight!

It's an open secret that the smaller Swiss brands do not have their components made in the Swiss Alps by harworking elves. They come from the same huge Chinese factories as the microbrands. Things like cases, dials, bracelets crystals are made in China these days unless proven otherwise beyond reasonable doubt.

Squale does make less expensive watches with the same quality and everything else that you mentioned. The Squale Montauk and 1545 originale are just two examples. both are sub $1k, even under $600. My first Swiss watch was a Squale 20 Atmos Submariner homage which was also around $600. To this day it's still the best watch I own.

Another great video Dave always looking forward to your opinions and honesty

That squale uses an eta (off the shelf) movement with a date complication so it has a ghost date. Couldn't even pick a correct movement for the watch.

Excellent review! Thank you.

Amazing video!! Very good job!! I think that for people with normal budget a 800-1000$ watch is packed with all the 4 aspects you mentioned! But this Squale stole my heart!

Great production Dave. Audio and video on point.

Great video, excellent commentary on the tradeoffs. Picking a 'best' watch for someone (me, for example) is quirky and best can be so ephemeral! Thanks for another enjoyable jaunt!

I think the worry of getting the Spinnaker serviced is spurious at best, it’s a £50 Seiko movement that you can either get serviced anywhere or just replace it with a new one….

LOVE your summary - I am EXACTLY like you in how I am putting together my collection. I just don't want to worry about a watch. Can get a lot of really cool watches sub $500 range

Great review bud! You touch every single angle regarding a watch has to have. Great job!

Great vid. Totally agree with your value assessment.

Awesome video Dave 👏🏼. But my wife killed the excitement she said “both can tell you time and that’s what matters “ 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Can’t watch this videos with her man.

I have a watch with an NH35A movement in it, and it is by far the most accurate watch I own. It's almost like a quartz watch. I have worn it continuously (including when I'm asleep) since I bought it, and I go months between setting the time. I have other NH35A watches, and I know this level of accuracy is not typical for this movement. I must have just gotten exceptionally lucky with this particular example, but even so, they are generally really good movements.

Excellent comparison video, Dave. I do think things get a bit complicated when comparing either of these watches with offerings from a larger and more vertically-oriented brand such as Seiko (and, for the sake of argument, Rolex). You did mention how watches with less-expensive movements may end up having their movements replaced wholesale rather than repaired/CLA'd when brought in for service. This might depend on where the watch is brought in for service: obviously, seiko themselves likely won't service a watch from a microbrand even if it happens to have come with a Seiko NH-series movement, but with any of my Seikos (spanning some 45 years of manufacture), I can send any of these off to the Mothership, and they can all be serviced. To Wit: my second-oldest Seiko, a 6139 "blue eye" chronograph, manufactured in 1977, was brought in-person to Seiko's HQ (yes, I'm conveniently close to them here in New Jersey); within a month, it was shipped back to me, serviced and running just terrific. which is just one reason why all but two watches in my modest collection are Seikos.

Dave, a PERFECT example of your video above but on a higher end of watches was shown by the Time Tellwr comparing the very pricey IWC Ingenuer and the Baum & Mercier Rivera - both fm the Richmoint Grp. Essentially both use the same ETA base/design movement and are priced $10K apart,

Thank you for the video and for the discount codes.

Spinnaker is one of the better affordable brands. They have their own design language that is fairly consistent. I'm glad you reviewed them.

I see your point Dave, but check the Squale against a San Martin. I think the differences aren't that obvious anymore... A comparison between a basic watch and an Omega is maybe a better comparison to see the differences. It's clear where the money goes in... But if you wanna explain why a Rolex Submariar compared to an Omega Seamaster costs so much more, I wish you good luck. The movement of the Omega is in my opinion better, more beautiful than the Rolex... Thanks for the video.

Another factor not mentioned here is the pricing strategy of the maker: what market are you selling the watch into? Spinnaker and a couple dozen other "affordable" brands are competing for the attention of people who are shopping for $200-$400 watches. Squale is in the next tier, roughly $500-$1,000 (not counting the special edition profiled here.) I get the impression that up to about $2,000 you get more watch for more money: better materials, components, and finishing, but rapidly diminishing returns above that. (Makers like IWC seem to tack on an extra $3,000 for the sole purpose of having an $8,000 watch.) Eventually, you get to the point where you're paying tens of thousands for beautifully decorated movements, at which point you're buying jewelry or art.

Great vid, as I have been looking to acquire a piece from both brands

I love the intro 🎶. Sounds like The Midnight. I have the white version of the Squale. Great video 👍

Great video Dave. Quite a marvelous comparison - same style watch but coming at the 'dive watch' from very different directions. I would split the difference and buy a Certina. 😜

Dave, this must have been the first time a video of yours sounded like a paid marketing ad for Squale (which is s revived brand and has no connection to the OG Squale brand other than financial investment).

Thanks for the interesting comparison of the two watches. I happen to have had a Spinnaker Spence for three years and a Squale 60 atmos for a month. I also have a Blancpain homage made by Chinese Reef Tiger and the quality is very good and the lume better than in the Spinnaker. Obviously the Squale quality is the best, although on my hand the bracelet clasp does not line up perfectly. Nevertheless, it's a beautiful watch, probably the prettiest in my collection (the blue version with a white and blue bezel).

Where can I find your video/review on that Hamilton Cooper @ 04:23? I tried searching but didn't see anything on that watch.

I recently purchased 2 Spinnaker watches and have been happy with both. One 'on sale' for $200 and one a mechaquartz for $235. Not sure I'd do business with them again though. At the website, there is no 'contact us' tab, or, rather, there is one, but it merely takes you to a FAQ site. No way to contact by phone, email, or chat. My understanding is they are located in Hong Kong. Anything go wrong with the order I'd be surprised if it could be fixed, either receiving, or warranty, or whatever.

Hello, thanks for the vid. Where did you source that gold NATO strap for the Seiko Alpinist re-issue? Perfect fit

Good video Dave. Well done!

Great video! It’s a very relevant topic too among watch enthusiasts that are moving away from luxury Swiss brands and looking at micro brands. The short answer is YES. Luxury is a premium - so one would definitely overpay. But the question is to what extent do we overpay? Is it reasonable or not? And what exactly are we paying for? I think we need to divide this topic into high-end luxury and entry-level luxury. For high complication watches using precious materials and having certifications etc, these all cost the manufacturer money. But for simple three hand steel sports watches, most brands are indeed a rip off. That’s why micro brands have become popular, as watch enthusiasts are catching on very quickly in terms of value. It doesn’t actually cost much to produce these watches, as many Chinese factories demonstrate. In fact, many so-called Swiss made brands source parts and components from Chinese factories. I think models like the Tissot PRX has really made people think why they are overpaying when you can get such a great watch for a low price. If we look at watches from a sum of the parts, we are clearly overpaying. But many don’t look at purchases this way and are happy to pay a premium for the brand cache, design and heritage etc.

I liked this. I can't figure out how Berny got me a titanium watch with a sweep 6 per second seiko movement sapphire and included shopping to my door for $78 Canadian to my door and still make money in the last ALiI sale. I especially appreciated your honest take on what watches you would buy yourself.

I think the €580 Baltic Aquascaphe matches up to the Squale, with caveats: the Baltic has a factory regulated Miyota 9039 movement, is on a tropic rubber strap, and the company is less well known. But as an owner I can verify the design and build quality are excellent, and the people there are great to work with. Highly recommended.

the intro... gets me every time. Love it!

Two factors that should have been part of your metric (increasing it to six factors from four) the cost of labour and the percentage of MSRP devoted to marketing. In the case of the gold coronet, 30% of MSRP is marketing expense. Those two factors are more relevant than, for example reputation of brand and build quality, since those are subjective and also not a cause for increased price. A Chinese factory with the directive from the brand contracting their services for manufacturing, is able to produce a high level of build quality and still execute the brand's vision for less money, because of the cost of labour. Long story short, European brands are 100% ripping its consumers off and the Chinese are proving it. EDIT: Also, a TINY segment of Seiko movements are made in Japan. Don't just say it's made in Japan - not all BMWs or Mercedes Benz are made in Germany. TMI is the far and away leading builder of Seiko Inst. Inc. (SII) movements for the various brands that use them. And again, the cost of labour is largely the reason for Seiko purchasing TMI (HK-based, but Malaysia and beyond manufacturing).

Fine vid Dave. Thanks!

Thank you for a clear explanation of the question I have wondered about since I started my small collection of watches. I still feel that marketing BS adds far too much to the end user cost, but I can appreciate why companies do this (to maximize profits). However, I still wonder why people fall for this and spend their money on watches in the multi thousands of dollar range when cheaper watches are for all intents and purposes just as good. It would probably take a phycologist to explain this trait in human nature that causes people to overbuy a product.....

Really interesting question. I do think the Squale is worth it, love Squale! I guess this really comes down to the old idea that they're worth what people will pay for them.

Nice video. Love my Super Squale. Yes, prices are going crazy. I think as long as you don't go over budget, get the best watch you want and can justify/afford and don't listen to social media/others - pick the watch you want.

Some of what may separate any two watches outside of unbridled greed and the innards is good old fashioned overhead. A small microbrand operating out of a garage is not the same as a multinational concern that's been around for a million years. Funny to see this video today as the watch I'm wearing has sapphire crystal front and back, 200 meters of water resistance, screw down crown with double gaskets and an NH35 movement. This piece cost me $103.00 brand new. I have more expensive name brand watches with lesser specs. Some days I'm seriously confused.

I aspire to owning a Squale, but can't stop buying affordables to save up for one.

The difference in cost between affordable and more expensive watches has a lot of factors. Brands like Spinnaker do not manufacture watches nor make their own parts but they design and assemble watches inhouse in which they source all their parts from third-party vendors from dials to hand cases and movements, which is why they share similar design queues with other brands selling around the same price. Not that the more expensive brands like Omega make everything in-house they don't but instead, they outsource their designs.

Funny, most of the Squale’s specs can be found in watches that cost $700

actually looking forward to this video 👍

Swiss made on the dial doesn't mean the watch was manufactured in Switzerland.

Great review, reminds me to this Spinnaker as my possible new watch :)

Spinnaker belongs to the Dartmouth Brands Ltd., and the watches are produced in China/Hong Kong, it is not a Microbrand. Squale is a Swiss/Italian Brand with heritage . You pay for the better movement, heritage and better finish .

I picked up my Squale 1521 a few years ago on a Black Friday for sale at LIW for $499. While it is worth more today and looks amazing, I would never pay $1k for it.

Don't be a fool, buy the watch you can afford and enjoy. The watch should only impress You, not others.

I kind of agree with you. My core collection of watches currently consists of a Rado, Hamilton, Certina, a couple of Tissots, several Citizen and several Seiko watches with an Oceanus and an Orient thrown in for good measure. ;-) The most expensive watch was actually the Casio ($550 for OCW-T200). It is noticeably better finished than all but the Hamilton and Rado. The Rado has no comparison because it is a DiaStar. All that being said, I am currently looking at getting a Longines Automatic of some type. It would be the first $1000 watch I own. Still not sure if wouldn't just want to get another two Hamiltons or a different Rado for that money. I am hesitant to spend that but if I did I would have no problem wearing it. It's a watch after all. I probably would not want to wear a watch over $5000 and I probably would not want to spend that on one. Maybe someday I could justify spending $3000 on a used Omega. You can see that most of the watches I consider are in the Swatch Group. I will say that the Swatch Group seems to offer the best "value" in watches today if that's something you can actually measure at all.

So my takeaway from this is that an honest RRP for the Spinnaker would be $150, and for the Squale, say $450. And yes, watch brands are ripping us off, because at the end of the day we apes do love our shiny jewellery.

I really like the domed BEZEL on the spinnaker. The domed crystal on the squale is nice but im a big fan of domed bezels specifically

I love comparisons like these

Any chance you might review a Filipino micro brand like De Guzman. I got one of their DG010 California dials with Baybayin script and think more should know about these.

I own the Fleuss and a similar model Squale Sub39 GMT. The case finishes are pretty much the same, and ditto for movement accuracy.

Your conclusion is on spot 👍

What about the Certina ds ph200m as a middle of the road option?

What do you think of the Swiss Watch Company Ark GMT at 2$50 It is not titanium like the Ark but I do like the wheel GMT function. What do you think? Love your channel

Got a Squale 1521 which is my most worn watch of my collection. 1521 case is - for my wrist - the best. Period. But the bezel action of my 1521 is pretty terrible. It is the old 60 click bezel (upgrade to 120 click bezel according to Squale not possible) and is has a ton of backplay. Reminds me a little bit of a Alfa Romeo: Love it for design and driving, kind of hate it some subquality parts.

It's alot of it is marketing and cost of Labor because the difference isn't $1200. Great vid.

I enjoy these kinds of videos and discussions. I end up reading almost every comment and it's nice to find a lot of shared opinions. That said, Grand Seiko gang.

Very nice watches! I’m wearing my Jolly Rancher green Aragon Divemaster evo that was on sale for 119$ on the bracelet and that could be it… I could wear this one forever! ✌🏼😎👍🏼

Another watch similar to these two is the Baltic Auquascaphe at around $675

The spinnaker hasn’t actually been sized up that much. The spinnaker isn’t definitely based on the blancpain fifty fathoms. The original watch was 42mm. Huge for the time! Love the style of both these watches!

Excellent video, very professional and well presented 👏🏼👏🏼 Squale is in a completely different league than Spinnaker in terms IQ, heritage and originality, no doubt! I hope you can make a review of a Helm watch and see what do you think about it!

another good review and I too cannot justify spending $1500 on one watch. I would rather spend that kind of money on several watches. While Spinnaker may not be a "forever" brand, that should not affect it's serviceable as any watch tech can simply replace the Seiko movement down the road .....

Nice video - I think you summed it up perfectly at the end. I think it's a classic case of diminishing returns. You more you throw at something, the less and less you get back in return. Like for example, once you hit 100m WR your totally covered against water - 99.999% of people will never go diving in these watches (you'd just use a dive computer) but it's still nice to know that the skill and expertise of the 300m WR is now on your wrist 😁

I love your intro music!

this is an interesting and thoughtful analysis to compare them. I think I can guess which one you like better haha

I have several watches with the ETA2024 movement. I would only pay about 700 for that Squale with it's painted indexes.

In the watch community perhaps, Squale is a known brand but, ask any non watch guy and you will search long and hard to find anyone that knows the brand exists. Squale may be better quality than Spinnaker but, there are some corners cut. For me it's not worth the price just because it has a slightly better movement. I say slightly just because price and quality obviously isn't directly related.

Love my oxblood red fleuss. It's a great everyday watch with a brilliant dial that I don't mind scratching.

What model is that Seiko at the 4:45 mark?

Morning from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania ❤

No one is ripping anyone off if there are people willing to buy it at the price. Economics calls it "snob appeal". While we could get into discussions of inelastic demand, it all comes down to there are enough people who will pay top dollar for luxury and exclusivity as there are companies that only target those willing to spend that kind of money. Fine art is just paint on a canvass but people put intrinsic value into it which makes it valuable. But I think there are other people who value function over status or luxury. If you're a triathlete, or do orienteering, a top of the line G-Shock, Protrek or a Garmin will serve you way better than a JLC. What's the point in having a Reverso and being lost in the woods and dying with a nice watch on your wrist only to have the people who find your body take it off your lifeless body? 😲 And they say there are more Citizen Promaster Aqualands on the wrists of serious divers as a back up to their dive computers than a Rolex Sub. The Citizen NY0040 automatic was the preferred watch of the Italian navy - Marina militaire for many years. Then there's watches that are cult faves like the Seiko SKX, and the new Seiko 5 GMT.

I have seen used Squale and Glycine prices just as low as a brand new microbrands with a Miyota or Seiko movement. I really like the Squale 1521 and Glycine 39 combat sub.

Hi dave, can you make a Comperisone of JDM field Watchs like oriant vs seiko vs citizen vs casio please

Nice 50 fathoms homages

Usually, the price difference is attributed to brand recognition, customer support, and hassle-free warranty. There is no doubt that producing mechanical watches in Switzerland requires more resources, effort, and investment, especially considering that labor costs are higher.

Nice mic setup! What is it?

Overall better componentry, better movements, higher brand pedigree therefore more recognition - these are just some determining factors that spring to mind.

You think those Rolex or Omega magazine ads or posh event placement sponsorships (yachting, Wimbledon etc) come cheap? Or the payments to the brand ambassadors? Then there is the retail channel distribution overheads too. That is where your 10-20 times markup is going vs a quality micro brand like Christopher Ward.

According to your upload; it was easy to see that there's NO ripping off for the Squale higher price, since Squale offered way more quality, Turned out that Spinnaker was not up to a fair comparison being that it's just "OK". Great general information. Thank you.

I'm into vintage divers , after seeing this, purchased a Fluess, crazy about having a aka 50 Fathoms !! now looking for a cushion case aka Panaria ,Spinnaker Hull goes to the top of the list .

great vid but i would question the comment about serviceability of the spinnaker in the future. any automatic watch using an ETA or seiko movement will be serviceable for a long time, it isn't an in house spinnaker movement, any watch servicing outfit should be able to service these for a long time given the volumes of movements out there, even if spinnaker themselves are not.

A high to mid-level Orient Star (with sapphire) versus Grand Seiko versus Omega would be a good comparison.

Nice information, but still I can not see the big price difference. I would spect 80hr in power reserve to start, titanium, zaphire and ceramic .. And I can get that with some Citizen models (automatic or Eco-drive) from 100 to 300 usd, so above that is luxury for me 😅

as much as i want better movements on my affordable watches, they just role with the nh35. it does always make me feel like all of my watches are more or less the same.