Thank you. I’ve sold my JVC, because I personally prefer the Epson. I will tell you that pixelpusher15 calibrated my Epson in dynamic mode after the MWAVE 2024 show to a more neutral color spectrum and it was no longer over saturated colors, in fact I told him to bump the colors back up to a saturated state because that is my preference and thankfully he did so. I say that to say if you don’t want oversaturated colors you don’t have to use them. As to digital sharpness there are 5 settings out of the box for image enhancement and you can customize each individually from the defaults. Sounds like might prefer a lower image enhancement setting. After you get the projector and spend some time with it, report back, if you don’t mind. I’m curious as to how you like it.

@@jvonengeln So I've got a refurb LS12 now and have had some issues with a couple of duds - one had a hot pixel and the other buzzed right out of the box. These factory refurbs are through a trusted dealer, I would have thought they'd be better. Picture on the buzzing one is even better than the first. I feel the sharpness is better. Everything about it would be perfect except for the sound it is making. That all said, after some struggling, I have finally dialed it in (although it will be replaced) and I have to say it is absolutely gorgeous. I struggle with extreme sensitivity to SOE, can never have any type of FI on. And unfortunately I was getting SOE even with every enhancement you can imagine off, which was disturbing me greatly. Took me some time this last few days to discover it was the way I had Kodi sending info to the projector. Please feel free to let people know on the forums if you see them struggling similarly with SOE when there shouldn't be any, that you can't send a 24fps signal, at least from Kodi on a Pi, to the Epson. The Epson does some kind of funky image processing - assuming a 3:2 pulldown - which causes a certain judder which gives this effect off in small doses, but enough to completely ruin any filmtype experience for me. I had an 8350 and then a 5030 and never had this issue. Anyway, the solution, thank God, is to send it a multiple of 30 from Kodi - 30 or 60. Let Kodi handle the processing. And let the projector project. I saw many unresolved threads on the subject. I bet this is the answer in several of the cases. After all that, I have ended up with the most beautiful image I can imagine in my theater, extraordinarily filmlike. I want to say perfect, I guess it could be blacker, but even my pitch black theater with a shadowbox still has some reflectivity. I can't stand them on an OLED, but I am not too bothered by the motion artifacts (trails) because at least in the case of the Epson, I perceive them as film. So although I agree the Low FI mode is extremely nice, I can't watch that way unless it's video. I've put the colors where I want and the image processing where I want, and with Kodi sending the correct signal, this thing is a tremendous win in every way, and I can see why you prefer it to JVC or anything else. Thanks again for the advice and help!

I think sometimes our eyes don’t measure like fancy lab equipment, and our ears don’t hear like fancy lab equipment either (and I mean that primarily on the negative end - as in we humans don’t see or hear as well as lab equipment). In my experience the LS12000 is a small tick up in every characteristic over the 5040UB and 5050UB which I think are remarkably similar. The negative exception being no 3D, and slower HDMI lock times). The positive exceptions being HDR handling, and full fade to black, image uniformity, and frame interpolation which are big improvements. But small improvements would be sharpness, no dynamic iris pumping, gaming, native 4K text rendering with its 4K pixel shift, more image brightness stability with laser, etc. I think colors are more punchy than the 5040UB too, especially in my custom settings. I do think it his is a refinement or evolution, instead of a revolution from either, but I find it well worth the upgrade.

I too think skipping a generation between projector versions is a good plan. The rumor mill is saying the next Epson might be a pretty big jump up in lumens. We shall see. They have a commercial version that is something like 8000 lumens that MAY share some underpinnings with the next HT version according to some hints on avsforum.

Is there a chance you might put out a video on the Marantz AV10 anytime soon? I’ve been eyeballing it and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

I owned a 5040UB so I can speak to that. I have seen multiple different 5050UB and I never thought there was really any noticeable difference between the 5040UB I had and the 5050UB when not side by side - and I never had an opportunity to side by side them. The LS12000 is a noticeable step up in every characteristic from the 5040UB with the exception of black floor for dim content. It’s basically the same there which is near the limit of LCD panel technology. However, the LS12000 laser has full fade to black which can easily trick you into a smile because it’ll fade to full black in a movie and you can’t see your hand in front of your face when it happens. I watched Super Mario Brothers tonight in 4K HDR on the Epson LS12000 and the full fade to black happened about 5 times and I was just thinking while watching the whole movie - Dang this looks good! It’s a evolution over the 5040UB and 5050UB. I personally think it’s worth it, because you lose iris pumping and bulb issues, and you gain sharpness and full fade to black, and a more stable laser image, but $2000 isn’t chump change and so they are both great choices IMO. Be aware the LS12000 doesn’t have 3D - if that’s important to you. The 5050UB does.

My screen is a Seymour XD acoustic transparent material. I will have video showing black level comparison out next month.

Waiting for that video eagerly

@@jvonengelnI have not seen that video yet is it out?

If I had one, I’d do so, but I own both the JVC and the Epson, and don’t own any Sony models.

I do have my recommended settings. And making a video on them is a good idea. Google search avsforum + ls12000 owner thread and then scroll to post 5. You’ll find my recommended settings in post 5 of the owners thread as well as other enthusiasts recommended settings.

@@jvonengeln Awesome, thanks!

I post as Archaea by the way (on avsforum)

Big mistake. The jvc is in a while different league. You are going to regret trusting this bad video

@@shaolin95why ? it’s clear that the epson looks better here. True Native JVC vs Epson LS12000 at the price the JVC comes in I would expect it to be miles ahead

It is dynamic mode gamma calibrated (because dynamic mode on the Epson is the only mode that offers full fade to black with the laser) in this video using an advance colorchecker plus, and the JVC was autocal calibrated using the same meter. You may find this thread of additional interest. www.avsforum.com/threads/jvc-rs2100-nz7-autocal-calibrated-vs-epson-ls12000-gamma-calibrated-a-comparison-in-pictures-and-videos.3285715/

I missed this. I prefer gaming far more on the Epson, but the JVC NP5 will make you smile with lower APL content. I’ve had my hands on two Epson LS12000 and both were perfect. I borrowed one from the first MWAVE and liked it so much I bought one myself. I’m sorry you’ve run into trouble with the Epson. Epson refurbs are no good in my experience. Maybe take the refund and buy another new one. Or try an NP5 and see what you think. I cannot personally recommend the Sony. Web search Sony panel contrast degrade and you’ll find they have panel problems where contrast gets awful over time. The Sony also flickers hardcore. Of the price bracket, in my opinion Epson LS12000 is the best. Since it’s been a while, what did you decide?

Unsure. I have almost zero experience with those. I’ve seen them in rooms twice, but no hands on playing time yet.

I prefer the Epson in most every category except for black floor. The JVC wins on black floor. Interestingly however, the Epson has better (measurably) intrascene contrary than the JVC - that is when both very bright and very dark objects are on the screen. But if the overall image is dark, and there aren’t bright highlights - that’s were the JVC shows it’s best attribute. I will showcase this in a future comparison video. In answer to your question, there is no way I can personally justify 2x the cost for the JVC. As you can see they both thrown and incredible picture. I prefer gaming, and sharpness, and motion, and intrascene contrast on the Epson. Sci-fi I prefer on the JVC.

@@jvonengeln I'm building a home theater room that is dedicated light controlled, I was all about the epson but have been going back and forth between the two. Love the black levels on the JVC from what I have seen. Could a grey screen help with black levels on the epson to bring it closer to the JVC? Obviously it wouldn't match them I wouldn't think but because it is a light cannon there might be some wiggle room in there. Your thoughts?

HDR Tonemapping set to Frame By Frame - yes, and I can't tell much difference with the Motion Enhance settings, so I just left it at default too (of low). If you find good content to actually see a difference with that Motion Enhance setting let me know. So far, I can't really see any difference there. Congrats on your NP5 purchase. I haven't seen one yet, but I'm a big fan of the NX5, and the NP5 should be like a NX5 but with 120Hz.

@@jvonengeln This is the first time I've ever seen a JVC projector in person and all I can say is Wow! Out of the box in filmmaker mode it looks absolutely incredible! The skin tones look natural, and I didn't notice any colors that looked off by eye, but I am planning on getting the Spyder X camera to do the auto calibration in the near future. Also, I have to run the lamp on low, even with HDR content, because the fan noise is significantly louder then my old projector, and I was looking to lower my noise floor in my room... But it's not a huge issue because the image still looks incredible even with the lamp on low. I'm rendering a video right now where I did a quick unboxing and gave my initial thoughts on the projector, so I'll link it here once it's uploaded.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i9ifY717y66XcoE.html

At MWAVE 2023 the LS12000 was compared to the NZ8 with MadVR and the LS12000 was preferred by the majority audience.

I haven’t seen the LS11000, but people I trust have. They measured it at about half the native contrast as the LS12000. Since that’s a shortcoming on the Epson as is, I think I would recommend only the LS12000. The LS12000 has a 4,500:1 ish contrast ratio, and the LS11000 has a 2,000:1ish contrast ratio. The 2,000:1 is more like DLP projector black levels. You can see double the contrast difference. If you were going to be watching these both in a room with windows or the lights on, it won’t matter, but if you are watching these at night or in a controller room you would absolutely be able to tell the difference in those two contrast ratings.

@@jvonengeln much appreciated!

Seymour XD fabric - 144”, 2.35:1

JVC was absolutely focused, and even pixel grid alignment/convergence was set correctly. (Out of box was a little off). I used text in the Excel document to set focus on both projectors. The JVC handles dark dim scenes with much more detail than the Epson. That is a remaining video I plan to do (Though everyone already knows the JVC has better deep blacks). What they may not know is that objectively at higher APL levels the Epson has better blacks. If there is a very bright image and a very dark image on the screen at the same time the Epson has better contrast. If the overall screen is dim the JVC has better contrast. I plan to showcase this in a future video.

JVC has the advantage with its dynamic tone mapping in an “extremes” type torture test situation, say a 10,000 NIT scene or a 5 NIT scene, however with most content I can leave the tone mapping alone and be hands off on the Epson LS12000 too. I have messed with the HDR slider about 4 times in a full year of use on the Epson after I dialed in my settings. (Those 4 times because I was unhappy with my personal customized settings for that specific content). 3 of those times/shows were Disney + streaming content that has notoriously poor HDR. So I propose that the Epson LS12000 has passed the good enough threshold.

Video upcoming. In the meanwhile check out my thread on that here at avsforum. www.avsforum.com/threads/jvc-rs2100-nz7-autocal-calibrated-vs-epson-ls12000-gamma-calibrated-a-comparison-in-pictures-and-videos.3285715/#nested_reply_top_post

I agree because that's where the differences are. NZ7 is way far better for dark pictures. But .... what a beautiful image anyway on the Epson 😢. I really don't know what to do.

Stay tuned -- black floor and intrascene contrast comparison will be one of my future videos in this series.

​@@jvonengeln looking forward to the black level test. Holding off on the purchace

@@jvonengeln I'm really looking forward to this as well.

You might fine this thread of interest: www.avsforum.com/threads/an-informal-set-up-as-i-use-them-a-b-comparison-between-the-jvc-rs2100-nz7-and-the-epson-ls12000-projectors-with-kansas-city-ht-enthusiasts.3262933/

@@jvonengeln also NZ7 is now discounted at $8,999 at all retailers... dont know if this is a temporary price reduction or permanent... but under $9k for the JVC is pretty incredible

Video upcoming. Also check out my thread on that here at AVSforum. www.avsforum.com/threads/jvc-rs2100-nz7-autocal-calibrated-vs-epson-ls12000-gamma-calibrated-a-comparison-in-pictures-and-videos.3285715/#nested_reply_top_post

True. BUT. I love my speakers behind my screen. It’s a true cinema sound that can’t be replicated with your speakers outside the image. For that reason I’m probably a projector fan for life. I do love my C2 OLED for gaming though!

​@@jvonengeln Do you prefer on center channel behind the screen or all 3 front speakers?

Yes. That’s a concern for some. I had a 3D capable projector for 3 years and didn’t even buy any glasses because my previous 3D projector I bought 8 glasses for and probably only watched 3 movies in 4-5 years in 3D. So for my use preferences it’s no loss.

That’s incoming over the next couple months. It doesn’t drop as low as NP5 calibrated. My LS12000 is calibrated in one of its configs and it is about as bright as the JVC NZ7 when both are calibrated. NP5 would be less brightness calibrated than either LS12000 or NP5.

@@jvonengeln that's what I thought. When I was hearing people state that the LS12000 drops so much in lumens that the NP5 is around the same brightness I knew that was bull jive. Especially with my experience with JVC projectors. Thanks again Jonathan and I look forward to those vids.

Looks like your 900e TV has good blacks at 5000:1 or even 6000:1. The Epson LS12000 projecor will be a little bit worse than your TV at around 4000:1 contrast. HOWEVER, I think there are other image aspects that are worth consideration and the Epson has a very sharp, big, colorful image, and it’s a fun screen to watch a movie on. If you went to something like a 150” screen, I doubt you’d think twice about missing that TV.

@@jvonengeln do to my room speaker placement I can do 110” screen but nothing bigger but that still substantially bigger.

For sure.

I don’t agree with this. Sony panels have contrast degradation over time. They often end up being worse than DLP contrast in a couple years according to many tests on avsforum. JVC and Epson don’t have that problem. Also Epson has better intrascene contrast than JVC - objectively. (ANSI). You can see that in all three of my videos. When. There is bright and dark on the screen at the same time the Epsons dark is darker. While JVC has much better native contrast. (When there is only dark/dim on the screen).

The Epson needs to be in its dynamic picture mode to get laser dimming to the point it’s competitive with Sony or JVC. Then you have to calibrate the color of the dynamic mode. If not in dynamic mode it’s contrast will be much less than in dynamic mode and the Epson won’t have full fade to black. Most reviewers don’t know this and so they don’t compare the Epson in its strongest way. The JVC NZ7 beats the Sony XW5000 and here you can see how the LS12000 compares to the NZ7. You can see they are both setup correctly here. So you can make up your own mind on what you see.

Hello - try web searing for archaea ls12000 halfsie settings. Or look at post five in the avsforum ls12000 owners thread. Or send me a PM on avsforum. I post as archaea

@@jvonengeln Thank you brother

How did that work out for you?

Hello Francois. Did you test the Epson in its dynamic picture mode settings? It’s the only picture mode that allows for the espons aggressive laser dimming. You can read about that on AVSforum. Unfortunately the other out of the box picture modes really can’t compete with the black levels of the JVC, but dynamic picture mode with its aggressive laser dimming comes much closer. You just have to calibrate the colors on the dynamic picture mode. Doesn’t sound like you have the Epson anymore. But if you did, please google Archaea settings Epson LS12000 and you should find some posts on avsforum with some settings to try to make the Epson far more competitive with the JVC. I had an NZ8 owner over at my house and he said if he’d have seen the Epson in that mode he’d have not bought his NZ8.

@@jvonengeln I'm going to try but there are still things that bother me about the Epson: The black has a blue tint that is impossible to correct (and really not deep) and the projector is not 4k (and the difference is huge with my Nz8 ). These two criteria are very important to me (and I'm not counting the JVC DTM which is really very efficient). The Epson is great value for money but we can't say that the image quality is equivalent to what NZ7/NZ8 is offering... Ok the step price is huge but technically speaking the JVC is better in my point of view

I personally have a hard time justifying the expense of a MADVR Envy, but they are really fantastic. It doesn’t make much sense to me to by a projector for $5k and a video processor that costs $8k. That said; I’d prefer the MADVR Envy and Epson LS12000 for sure. (Especially since, I prefer the Epson LS12000 more over the JVC NZ7 even without MadVR.)

Projector Central has a nice screen size / lumen calculator to get you into the ballpark of what projector you may need for what size screen!

@@jvonengeln thanks for the reply. Yeah I've already looked at that cheers👍. I'm basically right on the limit of fitting in a 120 screen maximum (which wouldn't even work if I hadn't knocked a hole through the back wall for current projector) small house issues lol. The Epson is so bright in comparison to what I have now that decent black levels will be so much harder to achieve. White screen, grey screen, acoustically transparent, what type of acoustically transparent screen, what gain? So many options that it's not exactly straight forward , then there's the ratio to consider, my head hurts thinking about it 🙈🤣 There's certainly no real definitive answers but a hell of a lot of different opinions 🤷‍♂️.

@@jaseamondo see if this site helps! pixelht.com/25-acoustically-transparent-screen-materials-reviewed-and-measured/

@@jvonengeln thank you so much, that will be a great help.

Thanks for watching, I’ll keep that in mind as I make my next one. Keep in mind it was on a tripod for a lot of the filming - so that part should be steady.

Coming up

Perfect 👍

@@jvonengeln didn't come up sadly :)

Web search quick brown fox test pattern. The other images are just KZfaq 4K HDR and 8K HDR videos for the most part.

FANTASTIC. The Epson LS12000 was coupled with the MADVR Envy at MWAVE 2022, and that combo beat the JVC NZ8 in a side by side to most people's opinion that I talked to.

@@jvonengeln Wow, good to hear. Thank you.

If I had access to one, I'd do a series with it too.

You can see more on black levels here www.avsforum.com/threads/jvc-rs2100-nz7-autocal-calibrated-vs-epson-ls12000-gamma-calibrated-a-comparison-in-pictures-and-videos.3285715/#nested_reply_top_post

See here: www.avsforum.com/threads/jvc-rs2100-nz7-autocal-calibrated-vs-epson-ls12000-gamma-calibrated-a-comparison-in-pictures-and-videos.3285715/#nested_reply_top_post

​Great the Epson killed the jvc in all pic with half of the price

If I had a NX7 and was happy with the picture, I think I'd stay there untill next generation. I personally like to upgrade my projector every other generation, and to be frank, the NZ7 is a very minor upgrade (IMO) from the NX7. Upgrade'itis can be tough to fend off -- but I think you'll see more of a jump in quality if you can skip a generation.

@@jvonengeln my room is not done yet and my worry is I’ll be pushing the NX7 to it’s limits on size. I figured if I can deal with the black floor the Epson is a good deal cause I can sell the NX7 and get the Epson with money maybe even leftover. I do a lot of gaming(not competitive anymore) and 4k 120 is attractive. I just don’t see myself spending much more than what I paid for my NX7 ever which means I doubt the NZ7 replacement would be way out of what I’d want to spend. Ive had 100 conversations about this and read every comparison, I’m just obsessing over this and it’s just how my adhd brain works ha. Your videos are some of the best for this type of context I have seen!

@@Krbasshead I'm planning several more of these in this series. Forthcoming will be 120Hz gaming, blackfloor and intrascene contrast, pop, brightness, HDR tonemapping, laser dimming, PWM.

@@jvonengeln I am looking forward to these!

It doesn’t require 8K to engage. Or at least it certainly changes thing when you turn it off and on with just a 4K signal. I’ve had various e-shift projectors before, front different manufacturers. Think of it as a up-shifter to help minimize the pixel grid, and make things look a little bit sharper with real world content.

Here’s a good thread on that. I recommend paying a little more for certified cables. www.avsforum.com/threads/short-list-of-certified-hdmi-cables-for-hdmi-2-1.3227668/