*NOTES, LINKS and SOURCES* What are your thoughts on Kampfgruppen? An effective, innovative concept, or a desperate necessity for desperate times? Let me know! I personally don’t think enough has been written on this subject (in English at least). I’ve scoured the internet in search of information, and most of the books I have, or can get my hands on, do not give details on this topic. Even Wikipedia fails to provide much information on Kampfgruppen. I would love to give you a detailed background on how the Kampfgruppe concept came into being and why, but no, I simply don’t have enough information to do that. I guess it’s another reason to learn German. I know that I messed up Pieper’s kampfgruppe (it should have the “Armoured” circle symbol). A little too late to go back and fix now :) Next week’s video will be the Axis Order of Battle for Operation Crusader 1941-42, and will be mentioning several kampfgruppen in that too. 👍 I’m becoming obsessed with the size and structure of divisions, and how this impacted the performance of either side. Crusader really does provide several examples of how size differences, and I’ll be exploring them next week (as I have done with the British Crusader Order of Battle kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h6l-d6igt6rUZn0.html ). *LINKS* Please consider supporting me on Patreon and make these videos as good as they can be www.patreon.com/TIKhistory My Operation Market Garden documentary kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rLqFdppq1JqvnZc.html My review of Robert Kershaw’s book “It Never Snows in September” kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y7iCl7p03q7Ud2w.html How BIG were Soviet Armies and Divisions in 1942? And what impact did this have? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/raqjn9Z-zNTUmH0.html Paulus's 6th Army ORDER OF BATTLE - Before Stalingrad kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eql0naSiubunnas.html The MAIN Reason Why Germany Lost WW2 - OIL kzfaq.info/get/bejne/obyfaKxh3bS2mJs.html *(Selected) SOURCES / BIBLIOGRAPHY* Caddick-Adams, P. “Snow & Steel: The Battle of the Bulge 1944-1945.” Arrow Books, 2014. Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 1. To the Gates of Stalingrad. Soviet-German Combat Operations, April-August 1942.” University Press of Kansas, 2009. Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 2. Armageddon in Stalingrad: September-November 1942.” University Press of Kansas, 2009. Hastings, M. “ Armageddon: The Battle for Germany 1944-45.” Pan Books, 2005. Kershaw, R. “It Never Snows in September: The German View of Market Garden and the Battle of Arnhem 1944.” Ian Allan Publishing, 2007. Lucas, J. “Battle Group! German Kampfgruppen Action of World War Two.” Arms and Armour Press, 1994. Mark, J. “Death of the Leaping Horsemen: The 24th Panzer Division in Stalingrad 12th August - 20th November 1942.” Stackpole Books, Kindle 2003. Playfair, I. The Mediterranean and Middle East, Volume III, British Fortunes reach their Lowest Ebb [September 1941 to September 1942]. The Naval & Military Press LTD 1960. Ed. 2004. Widder, W. “Auftragstaktik and Innere Führung: Trademarks of German Leadership.” Web Archive, 2007. web.archive.org/web/20070612045335/usacac.leavenworth.army.mil/CAC/milreview/English/SepOct02/SepOct02/widder.pdf Moore, G. “Operation Crusader” (Order of Battle) gregpanzerblitz.com/Crusader.htm Thanks for watching, and supporting!

I think Kampfgruppens represent the pinnacle of German tactical strategy in combination with the independence they gave their field commanders. But as you pointed out in earlier videos, tactical victories may not always be on par with the overall grand strategy.

It's a small thing, but I absolutely love the blue background on the German unit markers!

"A kampfgruppe, within a kampfgruppe, within a kampfgruppe." *K A M P F G R U P P - C E P T I O N*

When no one wants you in their kampfgruppe, so you make your own one man kampfgruppe :(

I think the beauty of the kampfgruppen especially early war is that its streamlined, organic, dynamic, made to order. No excess baggage, no fat. Under a charismatic leader morale and a sense of purpose would have been infectious. Thanks as ever TIK, great stuff.

In my opinion, the Kampfgruppen were a very innovative concept. They proved the ability of their commanders to properly assess the situation at the frontline and act promptly. Very often, Kampfgruppe leaders would be able to specifically pinpoint the exact elements they would need in order to complete their tasks. This can be seen in instances such in Fallschrimjäger Regiment 6's preparation for the defence of the Netherlands, when von see Heydte attached a battery of flak units to help out. Moreover, I believe in the actions around Kharkov SS Kampfgruppe Thule of the Das Reich division the commander specifically attached a battalion of halftracks in order to plug the gaps in German defences and carry out counterattacks. Even in Normandy, such things occurred when smaller pander elements were added to Kampfgruppen formed from the Hitlerjugend division. Although the Wallonien SS division was forced to carry out desperate defences around Stargard in Pomerania at the end of the war, the Kampfgruppe formed still afforded to be picky with its troops because the commander took the volunteers who would be willing to carry out almost suicidal counterattacks. I'm sorry if my main focus has been on SS divisions, however it is my main area of research in the German army. Lastly, I believe the Kampffruppen were an innovative idea because they are still used today by, for example, the American forces when detachments too small for a task force and similar units to Kampfgruppen are handpicked by commanders to carry out very specific tasks.

A theory I have is that Allied & Soviet structures were more heavily determined by logistics, while the Germans had the heritage of their Reichswehr years, in which improvisation (and flexibilty, even clandestinity) was a common occurence.

I like using Kampfgruppen for making up miniature wargaming scenarios. You can pick and choose your forces and not be confined to strict doctrinal formations. It also allows a narration for meeting engagements, which are my favorite type of game. Static defense scenarios dont allow for much movement by the defender.

Awesome video as allways ! Very detailed and well presented ! Love it ! Keep up the good work !

I think that the kampfgruppe is actually an innovative solution to problems, that were undercut by the failure to coordinate the makeup of the unit. By having a near desperate mix of units, it made the cooperation between the units more difficult. This is esspecially important when facing an enemy unit that is well organized and not made up of various units. This is esspecially noticable at the end of the war.

Really great vid, as always. You're making the worst day of the week something to look forward to. Would you mind if I added some German subtitles to this video so that some more people can see and understand it?

Another excellent video TIK Keep it up!

I always admired the Kampfgruppen, as soon as I saw it was your latest video I almost fell overy chair. Great video as always, altough I heard many kampfgruppen didn't had much success

Excellent video TIK. Have always been fascinated by Kampf Gruppens. Thanks for the break down.

Great video as always! Now, who is that one dislike, speak up and explain yourself, please.

Great video TIK. The Germans really knew what they were about as this practice is prevalent nowadays, with British army battle-groups and U.S Regimental combat teams.

Well done. I enjoy these on a Monday and always learn something new.

Great video, I like how these dedicated "building blocks" of information complement the longer videos.

I think Kampfgruppen covers a wide spectrum. On the one end are the born out desperation ad hoc formations to solve a crisis with what every minimal means available. The other end of the spectrum is a mission tailored combined arms team formed in a planed (maybe not so long planning as some allied staffs would need) to do a certain task. Most "pre-planed" Kampfgruppen i am aware of did contain multiple kind of units - combined arms in a modern sense, like the examples from the battle of Stalingrad you mentioned. In this view they are the consequent next step after the early Sturmtruppen of world war one to deal in a flexible way with the challenges of a modern dynamic battle field, that one brand of units, for example infantry or tanks in a "pure" way, could not do.

I highly doubt you are running out of topics for videos, but just in case you are: I would really like to see an in-depth video on the Moscow counteroffensive :) great stuff as always!

Good summary on the Kampfgruppen concept.

Correct the Kampfgruppe Spindler which numbered 134 men NO TANKS was instrumental in stopping 1st Airborne at Arnhem about time this was recognized.

Very good Video on the Kampfgruppen-Concept. I dedicated alot of time in research of different Kampfgruppen and their "achievments". Korpsgruppen were also a tactic, a Officer just putting together Corps-size-formations. Korpsgruppe 'Von Tettau' is a great example of this "flexibal" use of Units. Sadly you forget the Kampfgruppe 'Sandig' of Kampfgruppe 'Peiper' but they played a minor role.

This was really well done you should do a in-depth look at the battle of the bulge with both sides the German and the American!

Thank you for the precise and concise informations in just 12 minutes minus 10 seconds. I'm looking for a video for explanation on Kampfgruppen and your video is in my recommendation. Btw, I just stumble on this word upon reading a japanese novel title Youjo Senki and from reading the novel, I still got the idea but not as clear as your video. Again thank you very much . I subbed

Just finished reading your recommendations for the market garden operation - Excellent ! thanks buddy. You mentioned a book, in a previous video by David Glanz about Stalingrad. Not the compendium, but a stand alone book.. Can you give me some reference please :) Oh btw, have you thought about doing a set of videos about operation mercury ? I could supply you with 3 different books on the subject, and some decent maps.

(1) Another great class. Thank you! (2) German Army's combat group concept requires a number of elements to be successful: (a) exceptionally good C2; (b) very well trained troops, units etc., specially in this style of command and operations; (c) a perfect, difficult to achieve balance of trust, camaraderie, sprit-de-corps, hierarchy, leadership skills, command skills from command level down to large to mid-sized unit levels; (d) amazing, highly flexible logistics support.

Great and informative video! Peiper seems like an interesting person, and I hear his name mentioned all the time. Do you have any plans to make any videos about particular people, like Peiper for example?

Very interesting! Thank you for put some light on this term.

Finaly another video from TIK

Pieper is an interesting if strange dude. Why he or any high ranking german officer would think they could find a quiet life in France is beyond me but that is where he met his fate. I think he was in fact legally responsible for malmady. It was no different than his conduct on the eastern front.

Awesome video! Thank you TIK!

10:44 That makes sense actually. I would think cobbling together a unit in the middle of a battle would result in immobility at times. For example, if you incorporated a unit with no organic transport in your Kamphgruppen. And the answer is... well they often didn't have transport.

1:34 that might just be my new favourite war photo ever :D FWIW I think Kampfgruppe were both of your suggestions - effective and desperate. In an ideal world I'm sure they would have preferred to have Divisions fighting as Divisions etc. or else why bother with them at all.

From what I've been able to tell, it was pretty common for commanders of motorised (later Panzergrenadier) divisions to bunch together all of their armoured formations (tanks and APC's, of which there were usually one company per battalion) into a battle group within the division to operate as the spearhead of the division under a single commander.

"Anything they could get their hands on!" Picture of a dog wearing a german helmet. Heh... Hehehe... Nice.

Cool video! Not much new info for me, but certainly useful for anybody who wants to know the background for a common occurrence in the German Army. Thanks again for committing to a video every Monday. It's something very enjoyable to look forward to. Do you have a big 6-month stockpile of these, or do you make a new video each week?

Many nations used them, I know the Canadians did in Italy. It worked well in the mtns where a group would be send along a route, and another along another route. I should add that these groups were created groups named after the senior officer and often included a mechanized recce force, with a battalion of infantry, artillery and engineers and whatever that force may need, so almost a mini division set up.

My friend... someone should give you an in dept ww2 series on The Great Courses Plus, these videos are so detailed and great.

A very educational and entertaining video.

Great video! Not easy to grasp for everyone I suppose but consider this: nowadays some armies, notably the British army, are always talking about battle groups... You need to realize the ad-hoc / often Emergency circumstances when Kampfgruppen were formed. Like at Arnheim: HQ realizes it's raining paras all over the area. Strength and Intention unknown... So what to do? Check what units are available nearby - there's a training battalion, Flak batteries, an AT battalion... These units under their own initiative might already be fighting at this moment since Paras dropped nearby and their commanders took initiative... So now HQ needs a guy in place to take command and coordinate. This may be appointed or even happen by itself if, say, that artillery regiment with a seasons commander and a staff is nearby. He'll take charge as soon as he realizes whats happening, as he and bis staff are the only ones suitable nearby. Army HQ will be glad to receive his report in all this chaos: Col. xx, Artillerie regiment xx, I took over to get enemy paratroop landings near Arnheim under control... I formed a Kampfgruppe of units a,b,c,d... I assess situation as follows... Send at least reinforcements xy to me... So HQ will appoint him officially and have him run the show until a larger unit, e.g. a Division arrives to take over (but might still use his Kapmfgruppe...)

There was a serial called "Kampfgruppen Falken" in "Warlord" comic. I liked the fact that Warlord sometimes had stories from the German point of view.

You should cover more on Flying Columns, if you think Kampfgruppe have very little resources available, you should try to find info on the allied ad hoc teams.

So basically they act as firemen in theory. They react quickly and put out the fire before it engulfs the sector.

great episode

Extemporised formations as a concept is not new as you state with jock columns but there are many cases when forces are gelled together for necessity should a sudden attack occur. The difference between extemporised emergency forces is that German Kampfgrupoen can be used for offensive tactics etc. Interesting video

Considering that the British always fought in Battlegroups (Battalion Sized) since the end of the war. Battlegroups have now been considered the most effective forces as they have so much flexibility. British Battlegroups are named after the Lead Battalion i.e. 3 Para Battlegroup. The other differences that these forces are more permanent and each battlegroup will be built up of the various units of a Brigade forming several Battlegroups.

This is Great 👌👍. Can you do whole storyline on Piper, all the way thru his life to the strange end.

Enjoying this new KZfaq theme.

Tikday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday....

Another great video. From that Battle of the Bulge map in the background, should I jump to the conclusion that you're going to be working on a Battle of the Bulge documentary in the future?

Doing another essay on The italian campaign, do you have any videos in store? btw great content as allways!

Did the idea of Kampfgruppen descended directly from the Hutier Stormtrooper tactics of World War I? It seems plausible to me.

TIK How do you get that much information into 12 minutes?! .... 12 more please.👍

Stellar video as always!!

Have you tried using manual focus?

Kg. are one example of German military doctrine being taken up by the U.S. military. Battle group is in deed the literal translation. In U.S. WWII practice their equivalent was called "combat command" thus CCA, (combat command A) and CCB (combat command B). I don't think current U.S. doctrine still uses the terms CCA/CCB though I expect it does still use the battle group concept.

Have you read Stephen Bungay's book, Alamein where he explore the flexible nature of German military doctrine compared to British military doctrine and his bigger exploration The art of action (where he draws broader lessons)? There is a lot in both books about why the Germans were able to be flexible in command and it sounds like some of this is relevant to why they were able to use Kampfgruppen effectively.

Great Video!

So if a regiment commander got the authorization to make a kampfgruppe. That regimental commander could hobble together some platoons of anything within his regiment, to take care of a specific task. Using whatever he needed to take a position or to complete a task?

man I was hoping for the second part of crusader

I think both of your opinions are right in their respect. On the one hand it does not make sense to keep the rigid military system in place if many of the units are notoriously understrength, do not have the personnel to fulfil the task their name gives them or lack the resources to act as they would on paper. Instead, if you have officers flexible enough to lead a rainbow of units and an information infrastructure that allows for such leadership, by all means use it. On the other hand the traditional military system is only a tool to make it easier for officers to lead. A company officer can expect to have a certain number of platoons available to him if he is assigned the leader of a unit not known to him. But if you can train your officers to correctly estimate the capabilities of different unit types at different strengths, they will be far more effective in a real conflict. Also being familiar with the officers around the same rank as you and their capabilities and units will help a lot, so I'd say the fact that these officers knew each other and their subordinates well could have contributed to the success of the Kampgruppen.

Hi, I love your content, and was just wondering where you found the picture with the panther in the background and a gun of some sort in the foreground. I am a student of military history with a general focus on equipment, and am a bit perplexed by the gun specifically because I do no recognize it.

Wery interresting, an thank's fore this information. New too me

Challenge accepted next Friday drinks on me boys :D

This is also done in USMC - the Div structure is mostly administrative, they operate in MAGTF structures in the field...

The Americans also used Kampfgruppen, Kelly's Heroes comes immediately to mind....

I've read some interesting tactical innovations the German troops improvised to deal with Companies or 'groups' of T34s or KV1s, which often attacked chaotically without infantry support, solely relying upon their superior armour and 76.2mm cannons. They created anti-tank groups just to deal with these Soviet groups when PzII, III and IVs had little to no effect upon them and they would wander the German 2nd line, support and administrative areas, shooting up anything they could see. 105mm medium howitzers were adapted to fire HEAT rounds over open sights when a 50mm PAK/KwK could not penetrate the armour of a KV1 or even a T34 if the cannon could not be prepared in time. And larger Kampfgruppen of Brigade or over Divisional size such as 'Detachment Kempf' in summer 1943 provided powerful combined arms' support for Korps level advances.

I'm unfamiliar with combat in the Second World War but did regiments in a division typically not cooperate on a tactical level? You spoke of regiments and battalions being mixed under Kampfgruppen and being excellent formations on a tactical level and I was just wondering.

Good evening TIC,I often look at your very interesting video´s,i thought I did know something about WW2,but your knowledge,no,no,no.I also like your fantastic english- german accent,for example Fall blau!!Kampfgruppe!!

Do a joint video with Military History for Adults!

It seems like this would REALLY piss off the soldiers and commanders who saw their own units being deprived

The US Army restructured their combat units during WWII and Korea. During WWII and Korea especially in the combat zone some Army and Marine divisions structured their infantry regiments to have artillery, engineers, and armor units inside them. These were the Regimental Combat Teams about the size of a brigade. Within those units they can be sub-divided to Task Forces for a special purpose to attach or detach units as seen fit by the commander. Armored units also had like RCTs with infantry and other assets too and they also had the ability to sub-divide units to TFs. Usually in these units the commanders were infantry or armor, sometimes engineers. There were few RCTs in both wars compared to divisions. In WWII and Korea infantry and airborne units had designated and separate RCTs. My Dad was in the 187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team during the Korean War. His unit had a full infantry regiment and other assets like artillery and engineers but no armor because they were Paratroopers. Armor became attached to them as soon as they landed or were pushing the North Koreans and Chinese in combat. I think that the Americans realized this when they went into WWII.

A few factors make the Germans capable of forming and using Kampfgruppen in a way that the Armies of others nations weren't capable of: German officer training emphasised initiative and aggressive action and decision making. German NCO's were typically very good. German basic training was excellent and resulted in ALL troops being at least capable of basic combat missions, whatever the nature of their service. German focus on combined arms training and cooperation was excellent. They were able to throw together ad hoc units that were able to function together effectively.

Fighting is one thing, but how were these Kampfgruppen supplied? Who gets what from where and how? I'm imagining trucks roaming all over the countryside looking for the panzers that they are supposed to keep supplied. Or were these just very short engagements, say for an afternoon's fighting?

How was decided who is going to command the group? Was it the commander of the core/largest unit or the commander with the highest rank if we have 2 equally sized units within the group for example?

TIK do you have any recommendations of books on Operation Overlord or the Normandy campaign that I can study?

Excellent. I have wondered if the Kamfgruppen were something to do with Nazi ideology and the cult of the individual. Did they work because German youth had been carefully Nazified? Or was it Wermacht doctrine and their post WW1 docrtrine which you described? Many intriguing questions to think about as ever.

How did KG handle supplies?

Hi,do u know something about Kampfgruppe "Bruns" ?

The allies didn't fully have a equal kg . but the Americans at least were able and willing to carry on if there leader was killed. The Germans were said to just lose the will to fight or didn't know what to do.

How does KG organization and employment doctrine compare to the use of Task Forces in the US Army doctrine?

Still waiting for Kampfgruppe Degurechaff. Sadly will likely never see a Season 2. *Sniffles*

I believe but have not proven by research that the Kampfgruppen were an outgrowth of WWI Stosstruppen tactics, which were also ad hoc mission oriented task forces.

What actually makes kampfgruppe different from similar ad-hoc formations in other armies apart from fancy german name? I know about soviet artillery groups, forward detachments, ect, and I'm pretty sure other allies did use somekind of 'battlegroups' too. Just look at any soviet operation from a military history book, i doubt you'll skip 'reinforced company\battalion egiment' or kinda like 'division reinforced with artillery regiment of the Reserve and engineer and tank assets of the Front". If those aren't 'kampfgruppes' of soviet origin, I don't know what is.

can you do a video on The Raid on Drvar in 1944?

I'm so excited about your German.

Could you make a video of Himmler's disastrous command of army group Vistula in 1945?(just a suggestion)

I really like your channel Tik! Good info, well researched. But one thing English speakers often do, which annoys me (not a German, but a Dutchman) is persistently mispronouncing German words. 'Leibstandarte', meaning life (guard) unit, is not pronounced as "leeb" standarte. That would be written in German as 'lieb' standarte meaning 'cute' unit. 'Ei' in 'Leibstandarte' is pronounced as 'i', just like the 'ei' in Eisenhower.

Joachim Peiper gets so many books because of the Malmedy massacre, which I am surprised you didn't mention. Basically his unit captured a bunch of Americans. In order to move faster he had them all shot. About 100 prisoners died that way. After Malmedy even the U.S. forces would not take surrender from S.S. units. Peiper was not however executed for his war crimes. I believe he was assassinated in France in the 1970s by a bomb attack. He gets a surprisingly good treatment in the history books which he doesn't deserve. He might have been an effective commander but he was also a literal war criminal.

TIK I have one question is the Kampfgruppen have similar or parallel to the Australian Army jungle divisions on the late 1943

Any reading material that you guys suggest to read on WW2 stratagem and tactics?

Soooo did KG Reinhold ended up holding the Rhine?

Impressive. If you really think about it, Kampfgruppen gave the Germans not only more tactical flexibility, but also expanded their options to include guerrilla warfare if their commanders so chose. With such small units quickly created from the consolidation of disparate units (platoons, companies, or even entire battalions), the Germans could seek to keep the Allied forces in some of its campaigns off-balance.

are these like task forces or regimental combat teams?

1:34 Kampf Gruppen Pupper!

One dislike.. that must be Bernhard Montgomery.

If you're open to suggestions, do a video about the 14th waffen as division also known as the Galician division, a mostly ukrainian division of the ss.

So after battlestrorm Crusader next will be Stalingrad? Whats the progress with it?