As a woman, and one who studied feminism for two years as part of my under-graduate degree, I used to support women’s ordination, as part of equality, but as I grew in my faith, I realised this was not as the Bible taught (for whatever reason). As a former Anglican, I saw that as the Biblical teachings on leadership regarding gender were subverted, this led to more and more changes that were not Biblically based. This has basically led to apostasy and gradually to the church dying. I now believe men and women were created equal, but have different roles. And only men ought to be ordained into spiritual leadership roles such as elders and bishops, etc..

It's easier to embrace the world than defend the faith.

Love this ❤️. A wise woman.

I think the problem is that the ordination of women is usually the first step a church takes towards apostasy. It would be one thing if it ended there, but it often doesn’t. The fruit is rotten.

Thank you !

This is wonderful background from Kathy about the Keller’s story. I would have been nervous about young kids in the city also. God worked it out for good. I also found the behind the scenes comments about the Hopewell church interesting. Loved the phrase “These are men that work with their hands not with their mouths”. Great interview.

This was a phenomenal interview.

Either we obey God and do as He commands and wills or we compromise and will suffer the consequences. It's pride that makes people want to argue their position rather than humbly accepting and saying "not my will, but Your will be done."

I find it interesting that it has more to do with how the person is interpreting "Helper." Also, Elizabeth Elliot was an interesting woman. She swore up and down that she wasn't "preaching" behind the pulpit, but she was "speaking." The difference is really "semantical" gymnastics. She was preaching or sharing the Word of God in her testimony and story.

It’s good she was listened too, respected, and had avenues for her gifting, leadership, etc. It’s not like that for everyone.

I really enjoy listening to Kathy about her approach to life as a Christian woman,I listened to her husband preaching style, i must say i grew deeply in my christian journey when I discovered Kim Keller sermons.❤

Women have tremendous influence in the church and are able to give much needed advice. When God says marriage is a depiction of Christ and His Church, we need to heed what He says his intended structures are.

Amen sister

Submissiveness to a contentious woman is like the Cross to satan.

Men should be teaching men women should be teaching women. I have disdained the women's lib movement for years because of the way that it's crept into the church. It also for the most part had a very instrumental part in my never having children or a family. Now I'm 68 years old and alone. The message is always be independent. Don't buy the lie.

We don't always know why God, through Scripture, commands this or that. Some things are (should be) obvious - thou shalt not kill. Others are less obvious. What IS obvious, is that God is loving. He feeds us, warms us, lavishes creation on us and gave up His Son for us. I am loving towards my dog, and yet he rarely knows or understands the purposes behind my actions towards him, particularly when it comes to the vet and pills and teeth-cleaning 😂 Yet he trusts me and has every reason to trust me. Go God's way, in joy and peace.

This has been a problem recently in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Although the vast majority adheres to the Holy Canons, there are some "intellectuals" (as usual) who strongly argue for female ordination. I am happy to see Western Christians also objecting to yet another subversive innovation inspired by the wicked one. Pride is at the heart of innovation.

I hope Kathy is getting along well without our dearest Timothy Keller. She'll see him again for sure.

Well I am a great believer in family morals and values- everyone is different which I respect. That said a woman’s place is in the home , looking after the children and her husband - a proper homemaker. A clean house, home made cakes. It makes us all happy.

Adam was given commands by God and therefore authoritative responsibility, as Eve wasn’t created yet. Women while in the same form, do not count equality as something to be grasped. It’s Christlike humility. It’s the Love that gives birth to life. It’s a beautiful gift.

Has GOD changed his mind about this? If, not, and He has not then, anyone who opposes His word is in Rebellion.

Mike Winger has a well researched youtube video series 'women in ministry' on this.

Wow. It’s quiet in here. But either way, we should be civil on this issue no matter.

As an add on, if we had more involvement from women concerning sexual abuse, we probably would not have bungled and brought the disgrace of the Church on ourselves.

Tim was always right… How removed from most to women’s reality… At 13 minutes and

I am always wary of institutions that enforce rigid heirarchies instead of a more collaborative, egalitarian system - they are prone to totalist regime. Enforcing strict gender roles and the heirarchy of god - man - woman naturally leads to people thinking of women as in some way less. I think saying "men and women are equal" and "women must be subservient to men" are incompatible thoughts. Many other commenters mention the dimunition of church attendance and ordained women in the same breath - linking the two. I suspect that there are other, larger factors at work here, such as greater and easier distribution of knowledge, the very real and measurable benefits of secular organisations and so forth. I recall reading several anecdotal theories that religions' impotence in the face of a worldwide disease that killed and is killing and injuring millions had an effect on attendance. I'd be curious to see if there are any studies to try and quantify the reasons.

There is a spirit out there that would have us think that gender is a spectrum...that there are multi genders....and that you can even change your gender. Gender is being shaken..And increasingly many will even struggle to define a woman. To some extent soft feminism was the thin end of the wedge that prized open this confusion. Surely there are fundamental differences that we should respect...even celebrate. I would not marry a female boxer....nor encourage my daughter to be a brick layer, Not because this breaks social norms...But it challenges the very essence of what it means to be female/feminine...There is something perverse in a man attempting to be a woman...or a woman behaving like a man. The spirit of the age would convince us otherwise. Perhaps without knowing it we have all been influences by this 'spirit of the age' ? Christianity is looking more and more radical in the context of our evolving post Christian, secular nations. Perhaps we need to be increasingly discerning of secular thinking....Perhaps we really do have to be radical and different?

Some people need to leave their denominational precepts, spend some time in the Global South and reread their Bibles...

people want to do what they "feel", feelings have no bearing on truth, scripture is truth, man and woman are equal and equally valued but have different roles

Kathy was our Evangelical spiritual mother before Jordan Peterson became internet dad.

"You can be gifted but why do you have to have a role? that's pride" .. lady, you're so misguided. Why then do men need to have a role of pastor and leader and all the higher roles do? Why do they get to aspire to have those leadership pastoring roles, even as they might be and that is ok and then when women aspire to have those roles even with the clear gifting that they have, that is pride??? We have made these terms, gifts, roles and etc to cage and try explain why women cant be pastors. That is what it boils down to. Pride is always being used as the thing to tell women they should not aspire for higher and bigger. Gifting that is recognised by the church is often a clear indicator that a person has been called for specific things, that is why they are "gifted" in the first place, its gifted by the holy spirit for the building up of the body. If they were not gifted to begin with, then the role would not even be on the horizon because you'd then be doing things in your own strength. So, gifting often is followed by being released and appointed for something. This is not pride, this is simply the logical course of action. If someone is gifted but never goes through learning and never gets appointed, then surely that is a waste of the gift in the first place? and so why would the holy spirit give the gift at all?

It’s interesting the way we are selective about the Bible. Women’s roles, sexuality - we stick firmly to the Bible. But why are we not focusing on the twisting of ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ or, ‘turn the other cheek,’ when, for centuries, we have fully accepted Augustine’s just war theory? Why are we focusing on the role of women rather than the devastation of violence? I might add that I have found my fullest vocation as an Anglican priest - when I lead a service I feel the peace of God (even if I have terrible stage fright beforehand!). It has been an honour and a privilege.

​​⁠ 📖📢👩🏻👩🏻‍🦱👩Yes indeed Paul wrote to Timothy and Corinthians talking about woman in leadership being pastors being over the man is unbiblical. OK. 👍🏼 But what was also unbiblical was for Samson to marry a non-Hebrew that was written in Deuteronomy that Jews were not allowed to do so and yet God in His OWN sovereign plan going against His own Word and ALLOWED Samson to marry a Philistine. And it said Samson‘s parents did not know that this was from the Lord. (Judges 14:4) Would God ALLOW a woman to be a pastor and a preacher as He allowed Samson to marry a Philistine ? YESSSS!! And God also said that it was the FIRSTBORN who gets THE BIRTHRIGHT, yet God says I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and CHANGED THE RULES and gave it to Jacob, Isaac’s SECOND son. Can God change or bend His Word of 1 Corinthians 14:34 or 1 Timothy 2:12 ? YES ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Especially if it means the salvation of millions of SOULS! SOULS! SOULS! David and his men ate of the shewbread that was specifically ONLY for the Levites the priesthood. They would’ve starved and they would have had no energy to fight and would’ve been killed, but God‘s GRACE allowed them to do this even as Jesus allowed His disciples to WORK and PICK GRAIN on the Sabbath day. (Matthew 12:1-2) They broke The LAW. Aimee and millions of women broke The LAW in the eyes of millions of self called KZfaq Ministers with fake backgrounds of tons of books looking very well learned. We’ll see on judgement day. (2 Corinthians 3:6) God is not bound by the letter alone that KILLS (KILLS the calling on women’s lives,) but He will ALLOW women to be pastors or missionaries or evangelists or Sunday school teachers WHEN THERE IS A NEED to reach LOST SOULS! Jesus said to the man to pick up his bed and walk on the Sabbath day, which according to Jewry , He was telling the man who was sick for 3️⃣8️⃣ years to go and BREAK THE LAW and according to Christian LEGALISTS Aimee McPherson has broken the Law being a female pastor of Jesus Christ with a ton of flaws in her 3️⃣8️⃣ years. He doesn’t work through just perfect vessels, but YIELDED vessels. Imperfect Aimee did her best to YIELD to God as we can see MULTITUDES who got saved. Critics!? Who cares! 🤷🏻‍♂️If you don’t have CRITICS and enemies, then you’re not preaching the gospel! 8️⃣0️⃣ years later AFTER HER DEATH this dear precious saint of a woman still has her CRITICS attacking her ministry! Praise God!🙌🏽 We need to be careful of who we judge because we need to look at the fruit of one’s ministry and we can see there was a lot of people by the THOUSANDS and thousands who were reached with the GOOD NEWS through Sister Aimee and therefore will be in the kingdom of Heaven because of Aimee McPherson. Just as perhaps myself having been influenced by her ministry from 38 yrs. ago being a new Christian in the Pentecostal Church that was less than two hours away from Ingersoll Ontario her birthplace. I’m SAVED! PENTECOSTAL! You can’t UNSAVE ME! 😂 NEVER EVER! Just as Sister Aimee was SAVED. Have all these KZfaq Self Appointed Ministries reached millions through high tech KZfaq? All Aimee had was radio and in person Gospel meetings back then in the 1900’s and she still surpassed these PREACHER WANNA BE’S of today on KZfaq reaching more SOULS than them finding lots of spots on the brethren and picking specks of sawdust out of Christian’s eyes! (Luke 11:53-54, Matthew 12:24, Matthew 23:24) These legalistic Pharisee hypocrites reminds me that there is no leeway, no GRACE for God to bend His Word even when He spat on the ground, made clay of the spittle and healed a blind man on the Sabbath day, which is against THE LAW. And they WERE ANGRY! YESSSS! They RIGHTFULLY accused Jesus of breaking the Law, but HE IS ABOVE THE LAW just as He is above the words that even Paul wrote when there is a need for a woman to be a preacher. I don’t care what GENDER you are if I’m drowning INTO HELL, 🔥 🔥 throw me a life preserver!!!!!!🛟 Barak said he’s NOT going to go into battle without a WOMAN named Deborah, A JUDGE! My sister-in-law was a judge and was opposed by jealous men. Just like in the church they are jealous that a woman is being used mightily used by God in WINNING SOULS! These are the kinds of people that will accuse me for having long hair that I’m not of God. I’m in disobedience! It’s UNNATURAL! 😡 But again the “legalists” forget when Paul said BUT! BUT! BUT! there is no such law IF it causes CONTENTION (with me the brother with long hair) and trust me, I WOULD contend with them and so they would therefore as MY brother/sister in Christ they would have to shut up and allow me to keep my long hair for Paul said then we HAVE NO SUCH LAW/CUSTOM (1 Corinthians 11:16.) Also, who knows if Aimee’s “5 husband’s” (John 4:18) were unbelievers trying to do to quench a smoking flax (Matthew 12:20) by their worldliness, pride, sin, lusts, or by their backsliding or jealousy!? (1 Corinthians 7:15) Were these KZfaq ministers there living in their house? There’s always 2 sides to the story.💯 1 Corinthians 4:5 “So don’t make judgments about ANYONE ahead of time-before the Lord returns. For HE WILL bring our darkest secrets to light (not the KZfaq “ministers”) and will reveal our PRIVATE motives. (which KZfaq “ministers don’t know) Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due.” So how many have come to JESUS CHRIST through these videos of DIRT FINDING FAULT SPOTTING, GNAT STRAINING (Matthew 23:24) and have gotten SOULS SAVED according to Mark 16:15-18 and Matthew 28:19-20 through their SERMON VIDEOS OF CRITICISM AND JEALOUSY? (Acts 13:45.) Don’t put OUR GOD in a box (or between 2 leather covers) lest ye be a Pharisee, because the Pharisees said, “This Man is not from God, for He DOES NOT keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were DIVIDED. How can a woman like Miss Kuhlman or Sister Aimee do such notable healings and SALVATIONS, if God were not with them? (See Luke 9:49-50) Or I could turn it into this way “Lord we saw a woman teaching & preaching and healing in Your Name and WE FORBAD HER!!!!” Jesus said in reply “If Sister Aimee or Kathryn Kuhlman or Kathryn Krick is CASTING OUT DEMONS, preaching the Gospel, then they are FOR ME, and these daughters are NOT AGAINST ME!” (My paraphrase-John ➡️ See Luke 9:49-50) Some of these anti-Charismatic Pentecostal video makers shows they have 52,000 subscribers but 49,000 did not hit “like” on their videos! In other words 99% of their subscribers don’t care. Where are they? 😴 Whereas with Sister Aimee she would have had MILLIONS of KZfaq subscribers if she were alive today in the social media internet era. And just a little personal testimony if it wasn’t for a WOMAN PASTOR from Niagara Falls, New York, I would have probably not have met my wife that I’ve been married to now for 33 years. I thank God for that WOMAN PASTOR that held her meetings in a Holiday Inn in Toronto Canada where I met my gorgeous beautiful wife!!!!! This reminds me of a woman on Facebook a few weeks ago that I debated with where she said “Jesus said that you cannot marry another woman or man if you’re divorced.” I said, “So you’re telling me that if your husband cheats on you with Susan his secretary and files for a divorce and finalizes it and then 6 months later goes and marries Susan his secretary (that he cheated on his wife with) does that mean the ex-WIFE now cannot get married again because she was PREVIOUSLY married and was divorced BY HER HUSBAND, so can she not get married again even though she was NOT AT FAULT!?” She replied “No, she can’t. Go take it up with Jesus. He said it, not me.” This is the LAW in its strictest non-loving uncaring spirit at its worst. Horrible. Remember God desires MERCY and not SACRIFICE ( i.e. the LAW.) Matthew 12:7 If only you had known the meaning of 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice, IF YOU HAD KNOWN what these words mean, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, ' ... YOU 🫵🏼would not have condemned THE INNOCENT. Be careful in judging another man’s servant (Romans 14:4) and grabbing him by the throat (Matthew 18:28 on HYPOCRISY) because you might just be fighting AGAINST THE LORD and not know it. (Acts 5:38-39) 😱

As a Catholic I appreciate the Catholic Church and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and their reasons for a male Priesthood with male Deacons and Bishops. This is in line with what Jesus taught. The Catholic Church put together the Bible that the Protestants use for their belief in Scripture Alone. I find this very interesting. The Catholic Church is clear on every issue whether it’s same sex marriage, abortion, female ordination it’s all written in the Catechism. God bless you all ❤

Disagree

Very astute observation that decent people might avoid a complementarian church. I know I do 🫡 Does Kathy worship god's words, or does she worship St Paul's?