Tilt shift lenses with extenders, teleconverters

Tilt shift lenses with extenders, teleconverters - how they alter tilt and shift

Рет қаралды 3,779

3 жыл бұрын

Keith Cooper looks at how using a teleconverter or extender alters the photos you can get when using a lens with tilt and shift, such as Canon TS-E or Nikon PC-E lenses.
There are more detailed examples in the two written articles about this:
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and
www.northlight-...
Keith's book: Using tilt/shift lenses
www.crowood.co...
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Пікірлер: 75

@dunnymonster 3 жыл бұрын

Great to see you covering tilt-shift lenses with Tele converters. It's not something I've ever done before and I doubt many others have either lol. Interesting that only the shift is affected by the TC and the tilt is not, again not something I'd ever thought about or considered. Always an education Keith watching your videos. Thanks 👍

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - I read some people arguing about what the effect should be, so I thought a few experiments would help ;-)

@pedroparado60 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I agree with the comments. I have used my TC 1.7II mounted on my Nikon 85 mm f2.8 tilt&shift for extending the reach of the lens and used the shift function to recompose the scene, but not tilt so far. Now, thanks to Keith experimentation, I know that tilt is not affected by the TC so it will work as the focal lenght of the lens used. Thanks again for the video!

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

It shows the different way of thinking of a teleconverter as just enlarging the lens image circle, rather than a focal length multiplier

@pedroparado60 3 жыл бұрын

excellent video Keith. I always enjoy your master work!. Thanks a lot

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again!

@gregwolter1536 2 жыл бұрын

Always enjoy your videos. I find them very informative. I have your book also. Good book.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you like them - thanks for getting the book!

@danielgeiger7739 Жыл бұрын

A rare case of an interesting photography video. Just ordered your book! Haven't bought one in ages because none are offering anything new. Read Ray's Applied Photographic Optics, and that was not covered there. Cudos! Am intrigued about calculating tilt front and back focal points. My other camera is an Arca 4x5 and just use loupe on ground glass. So did the same with 5DsR and TSE 17 and 24 with live view and magnification. Looking forward to reading about your approach.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks Apart from a set of tables for different focal lengths, I deliberately chose to avoid calculations and definitely any maths - the proportion of photographers who will instantly turn off at [and run away from] the first sign of a formula is significant ;-) Many of my articles/reviews supplied images for the book - the index for them (and related videos) is at www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/

@danielgeiger7739 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thanks for the details. No worries re formulas. I can extract the gist of it from the tables.

@clarkbarrow6750 Жыл бұрын

Excellent information! Thanks!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks - I've links to all my tilt/shift stuff at: www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/

@VISUALARTEUY 2 жыл бұрын

Hello, your videos are excellent your videos are very good. I am a Nikon D850 user and I have Nikon PC-E NIKKOR 24mm Tilt-Shift and Nikon PC-E 45mm Tilt-Shift. I plan to migrate my equipment to the SONY brand and continue to use my Tilt-Shift lenses with the following Commlite Electronic Autofocus Lens Mount Adapter for Nikon F-Mount Lens to Sony E-Mount Camera The doubt I have is if the use of the adapter will give me any problem when using these lenses with the SONY camera as it happens with the tele converters, or if this will not affect anything

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks You'll need to ask on a Sony forum about that I'm afraid - Sony are one of the few companies which won't give me the time of day... The fact that the PC-E lenses are fully manual should reduce any incompatibility - all the adapter has to do is control the aperture of the lens.

@VISUALARTEUY 2 жыл бұрын

Very kind for your prompt response, another option I have used is to sell my Nikon Tilt-Shift lenses and buy native Laowa Shift Lens for SONY E-mount in different focal lengths but I have doubts as to the quality that these lenses can give if I compare them with the Nikon, what would be your opinion regarding this doubt.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

I'd happily use the Laowa 15 and 20mm for my architectural work, but I wouldn't get rid of the two longer focal lengths if I had them

@amaitra 2 жыл бұрын

Superb video! Love your technical explanations.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - Glad you liked it!

@Lance_Magillicuddy 3 жыл бұрын

Keith, I watch all your videos and I find them very informative. I have the Canon 24mm Mk II TS-E and I have great fun using it. As a side note, since I have spent now cumulatively a few hours watching you, you are a sort of celebrity in my mind and I can easily imagine you as an actor in a Hugh Grant movie based in London. Maybe you are in the wrong business! Is there some way to get an autographed copy of your book? Thanks for your content!

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - ...unfortunately I'm useless at learning lines ;-) As to the book, I don't have any I'm afraid. The publishers sent me a few when it was first published, but they went to my Mum and others who had helped me work on the book...

@Lance_Magillicuddy 3 жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper well perhaps one day soon she will become annoyed with you and put her copy up for sale on ebay! 😊

@Tadesan 2 жыл бұрын

Can a teleconverter allow you to focus at infinity with a normal lens to compensate for focal plane to flange distance? I do love the way you teach!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! This depends on the exact mount/lens/adapter, but in general it won't, since the TC is designed with the same flange distance as the lens that fits to the front. I should add that some mount adapters have included optics, which effectively work as a TC, but that's not what I think you were asking?

@zdravkogalinec2044 Жыл бұрын

Hi Keith! Great videos! Book came from amazon today! Question about using the TLT Rokr with Pentax 645Z lenses on a Nikon Z9. Does the Pentax lens still have the same effective focal length (.62x) on the Z9 body or is the 100mm 645 lens act like a 100mm lens on the Z9 when its being used with the Rokr? Thanks!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

A simple adapter does not change the focal length, so 100mm is still 100mm It's only adapters/extenders with lenses in them which affect the focal length Hope the book is of interest!

@zdravkogalinec2044 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper Ok thanks, so the 100mm 645 lens I would treat as a 35mm equivalent at ~62mm if I’m understanding you correctly.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

no - the exact opposite a 100mm lens is a 100mm lens whatever you attach it to

@lovedicedtomatoes9653 3 жыл бұрын

Keith, please consider making a vid about what to look for when buying a budget computer for photo editing. Thanks.

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

ah - budget computer... Most unlikely I'm afraid I've used Macs for over 30 years and have not used a windows PC this century.

@lovedicedtomatoes9653 3 жыл бұрын

Oh well, thanks anyway. Always appreciate the vids. Have learned a lot.

@MorningCoffeeDaily 2 жыл бұрын

I would advise to invest in Memory 32gb, processor AMD Ryzen 7/9 ( I bought the 9, AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core 3.8GHz, from 2020, the new is out so this one is cheaper) or I7 Intel. Get a Nando nvme SSD for software 1tb, and one 3tb HDD for the photos. And a rtx GeForce 8gb memory. I would go to a store and ask to build a costumized one, checking the best price with the best piece. Sometimes the most expensive memory isn't what you need and a cheaper will do enough, same for graphics etc. Tell the story guy your budget and build with him by request what you need. Cheers!

@CBSDailyBread 5 ай бұрын

Excellent, thank you. Question. I have a new Fuji GFX 100S and I already own the Canon 24mm TS lens. I know you have tested many different adapters. Which adapter do you suggest using for the Canon lens on the Fuji GFX 100S?

@KeithCooper 5 ай бұрын

Thanks - I can't make any specific suggestion here since I've only ever used a Fotodiox one. It works fine, but I do [very] occasionally get a lock up. lots of the other adapters I've used were for Canon EF and RF...

@CBSDailyBread 5 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thank you. Do you mind sharing the link the the Fotodiox one that you used on your Fuji GFX 100S with the Canon T/S 24 lens? I want to make sure I am getting the correct one.

@KeithCooper 5 ай бұрын

It's the Fotodiox Pro Fusion Adapter However, do some further testing - this was one sent to me to test, so I didn't do any extensive comparative testing. I'd suggest asking on the Medium Format forum at dpreview.com - quite a few people using them there who may have done far more checking

@CBSDailyBread 5 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith. I appreciate it. Which T/S lenses are you using with your Fuji GFX 100XS then?

@KeithCooper 5 ай бұрын

At the moment just TS-E90, 24 and 17. I'm likely to be using the Fuji 30mm later in the year. Temporary funding issues delayed that ;-)

@gaperklake 3 жыл бұрын

Your vids are the best.

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@gaperklake 3 жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper As a Nikon man too, you probably know that the Nikon 2x teleconverter does not fit the Nikkor 45mm TS. Is there an adapter, et.al., that resolves this problem? Thank you,

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

@@gaperklake Ah, my experience of Nikon kit is just the Z7 and PC-E lenses I've tested (all on loan from Nikon UK). My day to day 'work' kit is all Canon (as in this video)

@Fujik1966 7 ай бұрын

Keith, hello. In one of the messages I saw your answer that the teleconverter increases the image circle, not the focal length. And I would like to make a note to you. When using Canon macro lenses on the Fuji GFX system, vignetting appears, to reduce vignetting we put the lens through a Canon 10mm extension tube and get an area of 33x44mm without vignetting. In this case, the focusing area on the lens shifts towards infinity, and the object is 10-20 cm. Using a tube and a teleconverter, roughly x1.23, we get the same image circle. This greatly misleads people. I understand you very well. But in the photographic process, users care more about the focal length than the image circle on the same matrix. What do you say to this? Thanks for the work. (with google translatter)

@KeithCooper 7 ай бұрын

Yes - quite true. In the videos I try and keep things fairly basic, the real detail is in my articles and book [for tilt/shift lenses]. This particular video is purely about using tilt/shift - macro doesn't come into it at all ;-)

@Fujik1966 7 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper Hello again. I use this technique on a tilt-shift lens in Canon macro mode in the GFX system to increase the totalf pixels and eliminate vignetting across the entire shifted field. It is enough to use a short extension tube of 10 mm, and if macro photography allows, then Viltrox DG-GFX 18mm. (Google translater)

@killpop8255 Жыл бұрын

You didn't say it but I imagine any extension would accentuate the tilt at the film plane /sensor?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Extension [as in extension tubes] just allows the lens to focus closer and usually stops the lens focusing at infinity - this effectively reduces the effectiveness of tilt [which depends on focus setting and lens tilt] At closer distances the simpler methods of setting tilt become less effective, and the lens may just not tilt enough to be effective. Tilt and Macro often disappoints ;-) www.northlight-images.co.uk/tilt-tubes-macro/ Tilt with a teleconverter is the same as without one since the TC is just being used to expand the image circle [reduce FOV] www.northlight-images.co.uk/teleconverters-and-lens-tilt/

@killpop8255 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper OK thanks. My imaginary three lines were wrong. I do have a TS-E 90mm (well I hope) I bought a couple of weeks ago. Not opened it yet to play. Waiting till I deserve a treat...and when I have time.

@thomaseriksson6256 2 жыл бұрын

Have you a good optic book to recommend? Do you perform any PSF analyst on the lenses? How do you decide the aperture range that can be used?

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

All my optics books are years old, from 2nd hand bookshops :-) I'm afraid I'd never look at PSFs for lenses even if I had he equipment and expertise to carry out the testing. Such testing is only really relevant if you have multiple copies and explain the methodology [and relevance] at length - even then, for most people, it's of virtually no use for actually taking normal photos. If I see such stuff in any lens review, I'll skip through it, since it's intended for a very different audience to me - my only exception to this are the articles from lensrentals - they have the expertise and knowledge to produce meaningful info. How do I decide? ... I look at the photos. This informs my choices and options over aperture, along with subject and the way I want detail in the image in different areas.

@lwells1989 2 жыл бұрын

Do you feel that using an extender for a 17mm, or 24mm makes the image less sharp?

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Any extender makes images less sharp. It's just whether it's enough to be a problem. I use the 1.4x III on the TS-E24 to get a ~35mm t/s lens if I need the longer focal length. I don't use the TC on the 17mm partly because I already have the very good 24mm, but also because the loss of sharpness is more noticeable on the 17mm than the 24mm

@killpop8255 Жыл бұрын

OK Finally opened the box and I have a Canon TS-E 90mm. Of course I got online and downloaded the Manual but I'm a bit bewildered by something it says. I hope you can advise. It says to begin tilt or shift unlock the mechanism by turning the relevant lock screw in the direction of the arrow. Then you move the lens to wherever. Then it says lock the lens in place by .... turning the lock screw in the direction of the arrow! So turning the lock screw the same direction to lock and unlock it? I have ventured a little bit but am afraid of damaging it by trying to turn it if it's locked but it feels to me like turning in the direction of the arrow locks it, and in the opposite direction to unlock it. I'm sure that is what I feel but is at odds with the Manual. Confused! EDIT: TLDR: It says to lock and unlock movements turn the lock screw the *same* direction where I feel it has to be moved in opposite ways to lock and unlock. Further EDIT: I think I'm right as the pictures show the lock screw turning in opposite directions to lock and unlock. What a thing if this has been wrong since the PDF was produced in 2006!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Ah that's the manual for you - it works like a normal screw tightening ;-) - is this the newer model? I have my testing of it here www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e-90mm-f2-8l-macro-review/ Don't over tighten - lightly 'finger tight' is how I'd describe it. I've heard of damage coming from people tightening far too much over time - it's simply not needed. The original TS-E90 is covered here www.northlight-images.co.uk/t-se-90-review-tilt-and-shift-lens/ This is the one I'm currently testing with the GFX100S

@killpop8255 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith. So the Manual has been wrong since 2006! Crazy! I wonder if the damage you have heard of is from people reading the Manual and locking the mechanism to 'unlock' it as well as lock it? Yes it's the old version. Thanks again.

@openeye126 Жыл бұрын

given the rather high CA of the TSE 45/2.8, would you think a TSE 24/3.5 mark ii + TC 2x would have less CA ( sharpness being secondary )?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

A 2x TC would reduce image quality a bit too much for my liking - the Canon 1.4x mk3 does well giving ~35mm. I didn't find the CA of the 45 too much - it's easily fixable in ACR [see my main written ts-e45 review]

@openeye126 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper oh thank you so much Keith !

@Fujik1966 Ай бұрын

Keith, You write - "...teleconverter as just enlarging the lens image circle, rather than a focal length multiplier." Does this mean that the teleconverter in operation increases the image circle (for example, the diameter of the lens image circle is 51 mm, multiply by 1.4 = 71.4 mm.) Or is this just a mathematical indicator. In the end, we will still get a circle from TC x1.4 51 mm. Why am I asking this question? Will the Canon TC x1.4 give us a sufficient image circle for the Fuji GFX system when installing any Canon lens on the GFX via adapters - Lens EF+TC x1.4+EF-GFX? I don't have a Canon TC x1.4, and the GFX TC x1.4 is not suitable for these experiments.(Google Transletter) Eduard.

@KeithCooper Ай бұрын

It's not that simple - note that in this video, I'm specifically talking about TCs with tilt and shift and the original camera. A somewhat different topic. I have no idea, for example, whether the increased image circle will actually make it out of the back of the converter for a bigger sensor. For your use, it is effectively changing the focal length. This is not something I've tested/calculated, so no answer... :-)

@Fujik1966 Ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper You don't have these topics. And therefore I have to ask similar questions in more appropriate ones. Thank you. Perhaps this will be interesting for you to create new discussions.

@KeithCooper Ай бұрын

Yes - I've added it to my to-do list Thanks!

@damianip 2 жыл бұрын

Thoughts on using the extended Canon lenses on an L-mount body via a Sigma MC-21? It seems like it should work, but I’m wondering if you have tried it.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

yes - see my S1R review www.northlight-images.co.uk/using-the-panasonic-s1r/ I tested a lot more combinations than I cover in detail in the review The electronics may not identify the lens features correctly, but extenders have issues like this with TS-E lenses on a Canon camera

@MorningCoffeeDaily 2 жыл бұрын

Would that lens 17Mm TS work on a 90D nicely? Cheers!!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Yes it would. The crop is an inconvenience, and with the same physical shift, the effect of full shift is more obvious. So, an up/down stitch needs an up/middle/down set. Tilt works the same There may be a slight restriction due to the front overhang of the mirror box limiting vertical shift (I've not tested this on a 90D) and you can't use the larger versions of the shift knob

@gerardferry3958 2 жыл бұрын

super

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@stealthvanlife6867 2 жыл бұрын

I have the Nikon 19mm, 45mm, and 85mm Tilt Shift Lenses, and the 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 TC's do not work with them.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Oh, that's unfortunate - thanks for letting me know though. I only get Nikon gear on loan from Nikon UK for testing - that included a Z7 and FTZ. I never thought to ask about TC's. Do third party TCs work or is it the lens design that stops their use? They are not officially supported on Canon TS-E lenses either, but they work all the same (I've been using a TS-E24 and 1.4X iii this afternoon)

@stealthvanlife6867 2 жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper Yea, I was really excited when I saw this video and went and tried all the TC's on the lenses. I don't have any third party TC's, so not sure about that.

@openeye126 Жыл бұрын

I am actually a bit surprised that you have not tried the Laowa Magic 1.4x Converter ... or did you and it was too degrading ???

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Not that surprising I'm afraid... The original was was for sony E mount - I've never seen or used such a camera I'm afraid. The converters also have no electronics, meaning they simply won't work with any EF lens I've got.