Hi Troy this is dangerous precedent this is what the NAR actually claim too and look just what a mess it has become. I see you are charismatic cause of the statement you just made and if so then you stand with Copland and the NAR and all that ties in it. I just hear too much of what you just said a total replica from pastor of this movement and this is very dangerous and why people love the teachings of Copland and Bill johnson to NT wright.

excellent point I agree

They are trying to extend grace, I suppose. A mature believer would hopefully have discernment that would commonly be more lacking in a baby Christian, discernment that could help one to "eat the meat and spit out the bones", so to speak.

@@sarahwohltmann1866 but even a mature Christian is not supposed to knowingly support things that aren't right. Going there, knowing what we know, just to grab one little nugget of truth, while the less mature see you going there.... Just doesn't sit well

That's exactly what I was thinking as well. If you have to warn anyone about teachings at a church, then something is wrong with that. That says to me the Holy Spirit is not there because there are teachings there that don't line up with scripture. Also, it seems to create this idea that sometimes the Holy Spirit is there and sometimes it's not.

Yes! That's what I was thinking while they were making that point. Why support a dangerous ministry? Why risk belief in false teaching? Why have your tithe go towards something that is dangerous?

Perhaps God set it up so as this could be revealed. Maybe Bethel did get a dream

I love Kenneth Copeland, and I’m beyond disappointed with internet preachers constantly bashing him, calling him names, and even making fun of him ! And he doesn’t answer back to any of it❤ maybe you ought to consult with the Holy Spirit before you decide to vilify someone who just might be your brother in Christ!!!!!

@@carolblair2845 Maybe You Should Examine Copeland's Psudo Teaching in light of Expositional, Verse By Verse, Chapter By Chapter, Book by Book Exegetical Teaching of The Innerent, Inspired, Infallible Word of God! Their is a Christian Classic work by the Early Church Father Iranaius titled "Against Heresy"! He Refuted All of the First and Second Century Gnostic, Mystic, Esoteric, NeoPagan, New Age/Occultic Blatent Heritical teaching from these False ProFits and Teachers! Jesus and the Apostles devoted about Two Thirds of the New Testament Calling Out False PROFITS and Teachers! They Exhorted Believers to Mark Them and Avoid Them!! Copeland, Hagin, Duplantis, Hinn, Osteen and Thousands of other HyperCharismatic, WOF ( Word of Fake!) HyperGrace, NAR, Signs and Wonders, Freemason, Kabalah, Occultic New Age, Metaphysical, Scam Artists are Ravonous Wolves! They Have Perverted The Word Of God and are Much Closer to Witches and Sorcerers that Christians! Manifestations of the Holy Spirit?......more like Demonic Manifestations of the Hindu Kundulini False/Unholy Spirit! The Copeland was the first WOF teacher to Openly Embrace the False/Unholy Spirit outpouring from Toronto! Spent whole services in Unholy Laughter, rolling around with the Other False Prophet Rodney Howard Browne! Oh....Hagin Joined In with that! Gloria Knows her husband is a Scam Artists, so she just sat their smiling, as the offering $$$$ kept rolling in!! Please see Channels from Biblically Taught Bible Scholars (Many who have Escaped this HyperCharismatic, Heritical Movement!) that Biblically, Scripturally REFUTE these Heritical Teachings!!!! How about Justin Peters, Chris Roseborgh, Daniel Kozar, Daniel Long, Alicia Childers, Melissa Dougherty, Doreen Virtue, Pastor Joe Schmelle to name Just a Few!!!!! Read the Multiple Thousands of Heartfelt Testimonies of people who were Really Involved with this Occultic movement! She the Horror Show that they lived, as a Result of the False Teaching of these Ravonous Wolves! Sure Copeland Never responds to criticism. That is because He Cannot! He Knows Nothing About the Bible In Context! He said that he Received his Great Revelation Knowledge with he walked along a river bank, and A voice CHANNELD this knowledge (Gnosticism) to him word by word?? 😈 😈 He, Hagin, and the whole line of Word Of FAKE False Teachers Plagerised the writings of Kenyon, Phineous Quinbey, Ellen G White, Mary Baker Eddy and the Most Demonic of False Prophets......New Age Helania Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, David Spangler, Benjamin Kream and Many Other New Age Occultists!! 😈 😈 Oh....how about the Copeland, Duplantis, Hinn, Johnson, Bickle (the Pervert) Joyner, CheAhn and a Boatload of other False ProFits and False Teachers Getting Into Bed with Pontiface Maximus Himself, the Very Seat of the AntiChrist.....The Roman Catholic Pope!!!???? 😈 😈 This Satanic Pope just Recently said that he Can't Wait to Baptize an ET.....right out of the UFO!!! 😈 This Demonic Pope Also said that The Next MESSIAH will come as an Alien 👽.....Right Out of a UFO!!!!???? Who will that be......how about ol' 666, The AntiChrist!!! 😈 Why are people like Copeland, Hinn, Paula White, Duplantis, Johnson, Browne, Todd White and Thousands of other HyperCharismatic Word of Fake HyperGrace NAR New Age Occultics on Board with all of the Satanic Blasphemy......because They are Satanic 😈, and they Steal and Defraud the Poorest and Most Vulnerable people in Society!! Thank God the Word says: Be not Decieved, God is Not Mocked, whatever a person Sows, surly they will Reap!!! Gotta stop now.....just Talking about the False ProFits and False Teachers makes me feel Dirty, and in Need of a Shower!!

@@carolblair2845 Amen. To get drawn in because of his looks and character and the way the media has painted him has made him teh most popular pastor to bash. It is like the way people hated Trump almost. Mass deception. I too at first was put off about him and thought he must be fake and so I thought the miracle healings and people getting saved were fake. When people bash a pastor with good fruits it hurts the church in general.

I really hope people read your comment. I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I think they might be a little too gracious towards Bethel, I say this in light of the recent Mike Winger video concerning Bethel

Perhaps it was you that was confused all along and are projecting that onto others? This sounds like just an opinion and attempt to sway others when you don't point out specific doctrine you are referring to.

@@lilstardust777 it was a matter of deceived deceiving others. Yes, I was confused, though I can still hold others accountable to the Word, even my own deceivers.

@@WontonDisciple I can see that you're sincere, but again you aren't showing what he said that goes against the Word. He is allowed to grow and learn over years like the rest of us. Leaders are still students in the Word. The Word makes it clear to me although there are many layers to revelatory insight that Yeshua was fully God and fully man. He had to do everything as a man to show us the WAY. The OT prophecies about the coming Messiah refer to Him as as Everlasting Father. Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. Have u seen the Hebrew meaning of the names given in the first genealogy? "Man appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed God shall come down teaching and giving peace to the who suffer." Pray for understanding and deeper insight. Don't assume a teacher is bad because you may not have studied to show yourself approved and may be confused.

@@lilstardust777 leaders are to be above reproach. There's a standard they are under that we aren't. I'm not referring to minor mistakes here. These are the kinds of teaching and leading errors that leave people disillusioned with their faith and create a culture that allows for too many things. I'm not saying disfellowship them or call them apostate. I'm simply desiring them to step down from leadership for the time being until these things can be cleaned up. And people should avoid listening to it until that happens. I was once a part of this culture, it is invasive, it is powerful, and it is designed to be spread to other churches. And it's not a good one. It allows for too much, and much new age was experimented with as a result

I know many faithful Christ followers who followed Copeland and the whole word of faith movement. I ask them now many are very old and some have gone to be with the Lord. But i question them and show them things and ask for feedback. what is said to me, over and over, is that it was different back then. He used to be good. It was a different time. I’ve never heard him teach that? That must be new. Maybe he has dementia. See these people are to old. Why don’t they retire. Another big one is - I didn’t hear it that way. I don’t think he means it the way you heard. Surely now. In my day we didn’t misunderstand so much. And in my day the preaching was more clear and they covered what they didn’t mean. So what I have maybe observed is that it changed somewhat.. not sure but I’m open to believing gradually over time the teaching has become mixed and people are weak and let success ruin them.

1. Fellowship in the Gospel, Passover, outer court, 30 fold, little children, sins forgiven for his name's sake 2. Fellowship in the Spirit, Pentecost, middle court (holy place), 60 fold (6 number of man times 10 number of the law), young men who have overcome the evil one because the word abides in the them 3. Fellowship of his sufferings, Tabernacles, holy of holies, 100 fold, no longer I who live but Christ in me, fathers "who have known him who is from the beginning"

Copeland is VERY dangerous and if you know Jesus, he is not a follower

@@annairwin8147 I know Jesus, and I suspect many people. My paranoia is very spiritual, wouldn't you agree? If you don't, I'm sure you're going to hell.

You have more discernment than the two guys running this podcast.

I DO remember someone else saying this, yes!! Hmmm.

We can walk in his power. We are not him and he also tells us he can not heal anyone as only God can. He is not saying what you think he is saying. These are words taken out of context. As usual with gossip and public shaming's that are unbiblical unless we are pharisees calling the Holy Spirt fake.

Genesis 3:22 ESV - 22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever -

Literally in the Book ;)

I used to follow him to and I would say that some of his stuff is benefited me. However there's a lot of stuff you have to weed through and vet out. His teachings a lot of wrong presumptions that's stem from the Word of Faith camp. It could be dangerous because it hardens the mind to develop an unhealthy level of cognitive dissonance.

I had lots of word of faith books. I got rid of them all

Some will be offended by the word of God. Some are willing to believe only so much. I used to be that one. I was 50 and all alone at home praying my heart out for my marriage and God put the Holy Spirit into me and I was "slain" or humbled to the floor. I was changed completely. My heart was replaced and I saw what forgiveness really was. It is in the heart and we have to be able to love the person like Jesus loves them! We can with the anointing. We need to humble ourselves and ask the Lord to help us obey Christs commandments and make us into who he made us to be. I had no idea we could walk in the anointing and that people would also fall under it just for being near me. I have had entire stores laughing like it was a Rodney Brown meeting. I had never seen a Rodney Brown meeting at the time. I had not been exposed to any of these teachers. I never saw these healings and miracles in my churches over almost 50 years but it was like something changed. I thought I must be the only one as I knew no one who had this happen to them, My anxiety was cured. My PTSD was cured. My marriage was uplifted and my wife and I became like honeymooners. This all happened in one day 3 years ago! The miracles have not stopped since. I think many misunderstand hat is being taught in what they call "word of faith" and it is the reason they gave it a name instead of calling it teaching from the Bible. I did not read my Bible enough. I started 3 years ago and have read it going on the 6th time already this year alone. I can not get enough of Gods word and there was so much to catch up on. I do see mistakes or errors in most ministries I did not see before. People who are used in these gifts can have a hard time grasping what they are supposed to do with them. I learned the gift only works when God calls us to act. It works when the gospel is being taught and the Lord is being worshipped and people believe. Look at what happened to the guy from teh Jesus revolution. He was rejected by the church over what the Lord was doing and he was rejected by society for being a Christian. The devil used people he trusted to discourage him. I see how the devil uses pastors to discourage people getting into ministry sometimes. Pastors I never expected could be used like that. At the same time we need to be careful never to exaggerate and humans can do it without thinking sometimes. We have to be truthful and we have to have our hearts right with the Lord. I have seen some get excited and prophecies about others but they did not see they were speaking curses saying they got a vision the person was going to get sick or get divorced and when we speak those things we can disturb people or tempt them to worry.

And they said if you are a young Christian, maybe you shouldn’t go to Bethel. Well heck. A good church will be right for a new convert or a seasoned pro. Makes no sense. Reminds me of Dr Brown trying to sugar coat Sid Roth, etc.

@@theouterplanet I agree brother.

Yep, I’ve seen that statement.

Johnson himself doesn’t say healing is guaranteed. However, he does say that those who attempt to witness without His power (a key component of His prescribed methods [charismata] for the breaking in of His Kingdom Come). Not having His power “on us” makes us not functionally witnesses in the way Jesus Himself clearly lays out at the end of Luke 24 and beginning of Acts 1.

@@judahdawkins9635 Fair enough. The exact quote was "I refuse to develop a theology that allows for sickness.", and the belief that God would cause or allow sickness is a false gospel, per Johnson. The point stands, though, in that Johnson will write off large portions of the church as damned (he referenced the passage in Galatians 1 that does so), which is fine for Remnant Radio, it would seem.

@Nick Penner They keep unrepentantly making mistakes though. 😟

@Nick Penner sadly Nick I don’t think there will be any repenting, but I hope I’m wrong

I literally on got to 5:44 and already disagree with you. ALLOWING A KNOWN HERATIC AND FLASE TEACHER ON YOUR STAGE TO PREACH TO YOUR FLOCK IS ABSOLUTELY GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION! Are you serious? Bill Johnson just subjected his entire congregation to whatever nonsense KC said. Not ok.

@@freelove5459 in much agreement here

This is such an ignorant comment. Have you ever been to Bethel?

@@CaliforniaForever so do you agree that you're just like Jesus? Not subordinate to God? Because that is blasphemous....we were warned about being deceived by false teachers. Any church that would allow someone like that to speak from there pulpet needs to be avoided.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the passion translation.

@@dandugo2020 you’re close but no. EVERYthing about TPT is wrong

@@kevink9938 without relying on Michael winger name a bible verse and tell me why linguistically that it is wrong in the TPT.

@@kevink9938I have the Passion Translation in Psalms and Proverbs. The Holy Spirit asks me to read from it at times.

@@suzanneyoung6273listen to Mike winger’s examinations of it. It’s not a translation.

You don't think God can heal covid?

It is entirely Biblical to pray for your dead child, in both Testaments- look it up. Anyone attacking someone who did that, is probably envious of their bold faith and is also cowardly.

I believe I understand what you are saying, how false teaching and has had a detrimental effect on you. But if my child dies I would pray for the child to come alive now. I would be like the Shunamite woman. Years ago I was under teaching that said all the work of Holy Spirit working miracles has ceased. KC has taught falsely God's Word and it's now time for him to repent. God help this man and others like him to repent.

Thanks, I thought I was going crazy for a minute and I somehow dreamed that up

I have that book, it’s a good book.

​@@ryanehlis426 A good book? Not if walking in the Truth of the Gospel is vitally important to you.

@@danielbarker1450 the book is about walking in the supernatural with God. The spirit realm is where God lives and moves, angels and the Holy Spirit. One time I was sleeping at a hotel and had an experience where a man of God came to me and lay hands on me and prayed for me and gave me a word, but it was in the spirit I knew he lived in the city I was visiting, I did not know him personally. In the new age it would be called Astro projection, in the Lord it was a prophet ministering to me in the spirit, his spirit came to me in my hotel, that’s a powerful kingdom gift. Lots of the new age practices are just a demonic counterfeit of Gods true spiritual gifts.

Vibrations, sound, energy….its all Jesus. Jesus SPOKE everything into existence did he not?? Doesn’t the word say the rocks cry out?? Everything in this world has a frequency which is from the lord bc he spoke into being….doesn’t anyone understand it’s ALL JESUS, Satan just took it and twisted so our brains tend to think about new age when we should be thinking Jesus centered

heresy.

Interesting the 2012 “prophesy”… wonder if Bill Johnson remembered that & forced it to happen when presented with opportunity to have KC this year… erroneously thinking he had to?? RR…Thank you guys for parsing out truth & lies so well with a gracious spirit

It doesn't mean that prophesy was incorrect. God knows and look what a great interview these guys got to do because of that.

Was it a "prophesy" to begin with? A lot of these so called "prophesies" look a lot like pagan fortunetelling or pagan "psychic" practices (which is not only forbidden but an abomination in God's eyes). When we think of prophesy we must look to God's Word to understand what it is. ALL prophesy points people to the Lord in some way. This can be done through calls to repentance (like a lot of the OT prophets did...they called people and nations to repentance and also toward the one true God!). Or they point people toward God, like the hundreds of prophesies about the coming Messiah! And there are others that are so specific that when they are fulfilled, there is no way it could have been prophesied so specifically unless it was God! (Eg) the prophesy about the city of Tyre!) And this will help both Christians and non-Christians see God's omniscience and omnipotence. And then there are prophesies which are pastoral - which give hope to those in the future to keep holding onto their faith through the most difficult times. A lot of these are found in the book of Revelation. There will be some very difficult times (the most difficult), especially for Christians, and God has foretold what will happen, so that Christians can know for certain, that God is in control, and that He is real, and that He is faithful and will keep His promises, so if Christians keep their faith through the darkest times (even unto death), that God will be with them! THAT is the purpose and the means of Biblical Prophesy! Not a prediction or fortune telling that "oh Kenneth copeland will be in cahoots with so and so in the future." That just seems more like a prediction. And most likely comes from an educated guess of someone seeing KC and Bethel church being so close in their styles that they will prob end up collaborating in the future at some point.

RR and others - as long as you have an orthodox statement of faith - anything else you say or do will be excused.

@Always Thinking maybe they should practice now saying 'but Lord, Lord I did this and that in your name.' and we all know where it goes from there...

Nothing new...birds of a feather, both wolves.

@@markdromswy3931 yes, and they cannot use the 'sharing a platform' excuse either here or in 2020.

What do you think Christian means?

Be ye imitators of God as dearly beloved children. These are the one who walk in the spirit and do the greater works. We are not God, but He lives in us. We don't do things in our strength but by His spirit. KC does not teach false doctrine. Beware of slanderers. The pharisees of today will and are persecuting the true remnant.

Bless you for taking the time to clearly spell out the truth about these men and organizations. Yes I agree that at times Copeland looks totally demonic! (and acts).

Are you aware Baptists and Menonites, and Methodists and Catholics also turn against God or fall away? This is no proof that they off theologically.

So very sorry to hear that.@@user-fe4pm7tm4n

They called Copeland a heretic. That's not a pass

They say here that they like bethel music.

@@jeffmcelroy5364 calling someone a Christian is not an endorsement. I call Adventists Christians but don't be Adventist lol

@Jeff McElroy This is such a great, and well stated point. There is a difference between people who may be charismatic, baptist etc and they may all have slightly different beliefs about secondary issues, and we still fellowship with them and call them brothers and sisters in Christ. But when it comes to serious issues of salvation we need to stand strong and speak the truth! And what you said about 7th day Adventists (and other similar situations) and the enormity of the difference and that it undermines the indescribable love and sacrifice of our Lord and Savior was spot on! This is like how Mormans will INSIST that they are Christians (they will fight you tooth and nail on that), but they simply are not. They say they "beleive in Jesus" and that "Jesus died on the cross" etc, but the Jesus they beleive in is RADICALLY different than the Jesus of the Gospels! The Jesus they beleive in doesn't have the power to save because their Jesus is not God. And so we cannot call them Christians and we cannot fellowship with them as if they are!

😂 Yes!!!

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Oh YES! But still - Burn that thing! 😂😂

Lol 😂

😂😂😂😂

@@TransHumanisms i think they simply don't know tbh

Guardrails on public prophesy is wise for young believers first learning. In fact, when RR did their prophecies for 2020 video, they both shared that their churches do something similar to protect the giver and the receiver. When first learning to exercise the Gift of prophecy, it's biblical to steer away from rebuke and to steer toward exhortation.

I was taught not to prophesy weddings, deaths, or babies haha

I've heard of her, she's a little crazy to!

This is exactly my thought. It sounded like they were trying to give Bethel some brownie points in the begining, when Bethel's entire theology isn't even rooted in scripture.

Their doctrine IS different

What?!?!

Another heretic

Christ in us is the hope of glory. We are not THE Christ, we are His body. So many folks have opinions and using human reasoning instead of eating the word!! You're in danger of being deceived!!

the apple doesn’t fall far from eve’s hand before being gobbled up by kenny copeland 😢

And good for them. It’s sad but they are still strong believers and are now committed to a different kind of Christianity then to what we have seen in the charismatic movement. They still have their Bible study they still worship and they still pray for the sick, they arn’t living in sin they are powering in the Lord BUT they have thrown out word of faith stuff, leadership and prophecy gifts kingdom etc. it’s quite a shift culturally. Because many of the Pentecostal or charismatic churches are still growing but huge turn over going on. Not sure what that is or how it is sustainable

Here's the thing though. Are they leaving by the front door (backward) or going forward into the holy of holies? Pray on that one.

Exactly

Great point!

It is a book that Mike Winger did a video about, a book edited by Bethel members and sold on the Bethel website.

@@conceptualclarity ok. Would you consider interviewing gil and adena Hodges mike parsons Phil mason

@@laurens8623 I'm just an ordinary person and I answered your question because when there is a comment thread this huge it's unlikely that the video authors will ever get around to responding to very many people's comments.

have you seen the video yet? Because we are charismatic and we do believe in praying for the sick.

Well said sir! To be willfully blind in this kind of spiritual warfare is dangerous, to say the least. God help us...

Yes they missed the mark. Promoting New Age is not a minor problem. And “you understood me wrong “ is not true repentance. And the songs of bethel are not almost all orthodox. They are promoting word of faith, speaking things in existence like god etc. Watch Mike winger if you want to know what’s up with bethel.

I’ve heard some older people say they like him too. I think they’re from a generation where you just trust blindly. You trust your doctor without question, the news, and the televangelist. I think they believe that televangelists wouldn’t be on TV if they weren’t telling the truth. So I just think those older folks are listening with a trusting, not a discerning ear.

@@alexandralove3406 Yes you're right I think. Some of them will only listen to Kenneth Copeland and other select WoF teachers. They believe the 'faith message' only and won't listen to anything outside the faith message. Even though they love the Lord, I can see little bits of error come through in the theology.

With all due respect, that doesn’t make it right if you spread false doctrine. God bless.

@@t.w.wright2520 In the video, they were talking about the good that Bethel has done for the city. My comment was attesting that, not endorsing or promoting.

@@t.w.wright2520 I also don’t believe that they spread false doctrine. It might be doctrine that has a spicer representation, but I have never heard in the last 5-6 years false doctrine. Could you show me one that they haven’t renounced or was taken out of context?

Yes they are courteous too

@Always Thinking Josh did consider what Copeland said from the Bethel stage at timecode 2:36-2:57 and it looks like they didn't need to review what he said on the stage in its fullness as they came to the same conclusion: 1) Copeland teaches actual heresy and needs to repent and 2) Bethel Church should apologize for allowing a heretic to speak from their pulpit. That's what you want, yeah? The Remnant Radio not only nailed it on the head, but also did it with a spirit of gentleness (Gal. 6:1). BAM!

​@Always Thinking I hear you. In regards to Rom. 16:17, I am wondering what your response is to Josh and Michael's points at Timecode 17:13-20:30? Using your interpretation of Rom. 16:17, the Apostle Paul should have marked and avoided the church of Corinth, yes? The point is that errors being tolerated in a church does not necessarily mean the entire church is a heretical church that needs to be marked and avoided. The Remnant Radio believes, with sufficient reason, that Bethel Church is a Christian church (Timecode 6:11-6:50, 14:31-14:36) that is tolerating a high frequency of errors, but has potential for further improvement as Bethel Church and Bill Johnson have cleaned up errors in the past (Timecode 7:43-10:30). The goal is to "Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened..." (1 Cor. 5:7) and to restore wandering brothers (Gal 6:1, James 5:19-20) not to disassociate with the entire church if there are areas needing improvement. Rom. 16:17-18 seems to be more for individuals who are intentionally putting obstacles in the way of orthodox Christianity and trying to deceive the naïve through smooth talk and flattery. Michael Rountree makes the point that, "To work at Bethel Church you have to be an orthodox Christian, and so they are trying to promote Christian doctrine and Christian values..." (Timecode 6:28-6:38). So, if Bethel Church is trying to promote orthodox Christian doctrine, it does not fit the Rom. 16:17-18 description. Furthermore, The Remnant Radio is, indeed, being very balanced in their treatment of this discussion. Although they defend Bethel Church as Christian brothers, they certainly aren't recommending Bethel as a safe church (Timecode 18:46-19:04). Again, Josh and Michael appeal to Bethel to apologize for inviting Copeland (even if Copeland preached a perfect sermon w/o heresy from the stage at Bethel, the error would still remain that they invited him to speak at all) [Timecode 47:01-47:30] and they clearly warned other believers to either not watch Bethel at all or to have their discernment way up due to the the high frequency of errors occurring at Bethel (Timecode 14:49-17:12). BAM! LOL lets keep this going :) I would love to continue hearing your thoughts.