Do whatever y’all want I was high as hell during this whole rant 😂🤝

I think my problem with Kenny's "don't sidechain 808s" philosophy is that he always describes it as the 808 "swelling in", but if you sidechain with a specific volume envelope instead of a compressor, you can get an incredibly tight sidechain that ends before the kick even finishes and you'll never even hear the "swell in". you'll only hear the kick sample you chose, blended cleanly into the 808 tail you chose. not a "bandaid" just a good flexible tool that doesn't have an audible "sidechain" feel IMO

Alternative: use a multiband compressor to sidechain JUST the low-end of the 808 when the kick hits to preserve all the mid/high transients instead of ducking the entire volume of the 808

Taking Fox Stevenson's take on this. You can actually use mutiband sidechain to get ducking on the 808 or bass without having the swelling or pumping effect. Its pretty bad when you're getting phase cancellation due to clashing sub frequencies. Also things start to get muddy when you have clashing transients.

Always flip polarity with this stuff. I find a lot of times (back in my hip hop days) , if I was ever layering 808's and kicks, there's always one polarity where you get a shitload more phase cancellation. Sometimes its just as easy as flipping the polarity of the kick, and you're good to go. A good way to find the right kicks, is actually to find the kicks that cause the most phase cancellation, and then flip it. Those tend to be the ones that end up hitting the hardest.

It weirds me out how Kenny is so adamant when it comes to sidechaining 808's. He is a great producer, one of my favourites, but he doesn't know how to mix to professional standards. Who are you going to believe, Jaycen Joshua or Kenny? He's right that you shouldn't sidechain as a band aid and you still should balance and EQ correctly. But there's a way to sidechain that is imperceptible or even better, one that makes the bass feel like it hits harder. I'd highly recommend watching Baphometrix videos to get more in depth on this.

the way he said that the 808 needs a better attack to hit it harder, is the same as putting a kick to an 808 and sidechain it to feel like its hard, it depends on how u use it and there are various techniques in music and production, that's why there are no rules. by the way, the sidechain technique is from the EDM genre because the kick is more important in that genre, now producers or even mixing engineers adapt to sidechaining because nowadays when u hear a kick really hit hard in a record, its really catchy and cool to listen on

The legend is back! Love your videos :)

My favorite eq technique is simply using a peak controller to cut the specific frequency on the bass (usually it's like around 50hz) that's clashing only when the kick hits. For trap/hip hop, Kenny may be right, but for edm and shit, when you want that hard kick and that low deep bass, you're gonna have clashing and in reality that low frequency that you cut is filled out by the kick so you don't lose any perceived bass and actually gain punchiness as the kick will stand out more.

I think you bring up a lot of great points for newer producers and artists but I also think people who've been doing this for a long time know that the kick itself provides some thud and the 808 by itself can provide long lasting sub frequencies. I personally like to use these interchangeably. Sometimes the kick plays alone, sometimes the 808 plays alone and sometimes they play together providing more structure and variance for the song. That being said you were 100% right on sample selection and the notes at which these two things hit at. There's also a lot of listening that has to be done to get sidechain that doesn't sound like it's sidechain. I personally prefer sidechaining straight through the EQ. Giving me control over what frequencies are affected by the sidechain.

Banger videos from you dude. Great presentation

I dont even kick, i click. With tha sidechain like a flashbang bby keep directing these other producers, JUNKO next.... like not even next up, next level. I love you.

Awesome video! Thank you!

I think the real problem here is the phase alignment of both the kick and the sub. The tool for this issue is an oscilloscope and a ducker not eq. It is generally impossible to get the beginning of the two waveforms aligned (Kick & Sub) however the later parts of the waveforms can be aligned. This is why a ducker is used, not to remove clashing frequencies but to remove the initial non aligned part of the sub waveform. The problem here is that people generally use just a standard ramp setting on the ducker and call it done but for it to actually work as intended, a custom curve must be drawn based on the relationship of your kick and sub. The only way to get this right is to look at the waveforms through an oscilloscope while making adjustments to the ducking curve until you see that the dip in the combined waveform is gone. When done correctly there won't be any audible ducking or swelling, it will be a smooth transition from kick to sub. In actual fact you'll get an audible swelling sound on the sub if you don't implementing ducking because the kick and sub aren't phase aligned in the beginning, which causes an audible drop in level momentarily until they become aligned.

My favorite thing is the editing. That’s some good shhhh!

Love the techniques.

I like side chaining the kick to the attack (2K ish) of the 808. It will have the kick hit clear when not in unison with the 808, and the attack of 808 come through over the kick. Not always, but I prefer it to the reverse.

That’s so true ! I have some difficulties with the low end and now I’m using EQ like you to progress. Sometime I decrease the volume of thé bass or kick because I would like to get big bass and kick at the same times (Wow effect) but I got boomy effect 😄

We missed you man!

So true really cleaning up the eq does ALoT! 👏🏾🤓

"Not everything needs lows, mids, and highs" Damn I never thought of that but it makes sense!

Sol State Squad wyaaaaa

BRAVO 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽❗ I Actually Discover This By Accident... Once I Was Already In My Mixdown Stage, I Had An Izotope Insight 2 On My Last Mastering Chain Because i Was Trying To Get A Little Beneath The Average 14 LUFS Streaming Levels and I was Over By 1 LUFS, So i Just Started to Go Thru EQ's On Different Tracks Just To See If Those Little Adjustments Make A Difference and WHALAH, It Sure Does... So Much So that I Left That Particular Track As IS... No Final Mastering Necessary😁😎 ✔👍🏽

Sol State is life

I sidechained a kick and 808 yesterday and it sounded tight af. Used a little bit of volume automation to take out the transient of the 808 then Soothe2 to sicechain mode to fix the clashing frequencys. You cant tell there's sidechaining going on. Like Jaycen Joshua says. You save about 2dB of headroom so when done right in certain mixes your mix will be much louder without having the transients fuck up.

Sidechain is used because when the kick and 808 hit at the same time; the transient spikes about 2db which gives you less headroom. Headroom is needed when you master so you can have a full sounding record without going over 0db. Upward compression doesn't work as good when the transient is way louder than the melody

beautiful video

KENNY BEATS SPEAKS IN ALL CAPS

I also like to use/design a punchy 808 & just use different ADSR settings for short or long sustains throughout places within the track..

Good points

So the “swelling in” thing can be easily fixed (at least in ableton). On your compressor, turn on the EQ mode and have it listen for the click of the kick (like 3k-3.5k) super tight sidechain.

Solid Tips

Cutting unnecessary lows is key. I do it on every instrument - basically cut out whatever frequenies you dont need. Low frequencies tend to pile up and lead to real muddy mixes because the producer didnt go in and remove those frequencies.

I'm just here for this glockenspiel at the desk vibe haha. it's a great idea tbh

Solid

Easy trick for making the kick seem to punch harder is layering it with a short closed hat or something similar.

I personally like using sidechain. It's all about how the track is mixed in my opinion. Solid information though, lots of gems here 💎

number one rule is to have kick and 808 in the same key. It sounds clean and dont clash with each other...but still, sidechain makes whole mix sounds cleaner...not just 808, but every intruments

Kick and 808 can absolutely hit at the same time, I find sidechaining to be most useful for kicks with a slightly longer tail.

Yes I fix My old beats regularly, the EQ used to be all over the place and things used to get muddy.

I don’t usually side chain. If you find the right kick and 808 then eq properly it will sound a lot better. The only time I do is just for a creative effect

Phase align kick and 808 make the both hit hard

Such a polarizing comment section I love it

I've seen videos that also say sidechaining is op and should be used often. I believe wholly that mixing and mastering is a case by case basis, and is different for each artist and track's needs. these tutorials are too contextual usually and the plethora of contradictory opinions prove it enough. Not to mention the pretentiousness of assuming what everyone wants to hear from you "now", is an overly clean mix without the dynamic flow sidechained sounds could add to your song. If you've successfully developed a good sidechained mix, it ain't wrong yo, and your audience wants it. punchy and pokey lead sounds can be used with sidechain tastefully. Everyone produces differently.

EDM artists seem to have the science of mixing bass music down, which is odd because Kenny had roots in that genre for his start. If you are officially taking part in the loudness wars and you want your drums to hit their hardest…sidechaining is involved. You can get away with EQ a lot but sometimes polarity and phasing can dull your mix. If you use the same handful of drum samples for all your songs then of course you can probably skip tools like sidechaining. I think some people hate on sidechaining because we hear too much of it… Like the “Unison midi pack” or “Secret Sauce” plug-in (from Kenny’s cousin Kyle 😜)

I think a lot of the hate Kenny Advice gets is that he'll have a valid point, doesn't really properly explain why, and over-generalizes so you have all of these "buts" in the comments. This is for newbies who think a hard top kick and a hard 808 = doubly hard track. It's super muddy, so they sidechain it rather than choosing complimentary sounds and understanding each part of a kick (transient, punch, low-end).

Kenny Beats looks like 3 seconds away from calling you SIR, SIR? SIR!!!!! and tasing you

He's right

I think that depends on the transient of the 808. If it has a little more presence like a soft kick then adding another kick to it would probably require you to deal with the transient of the 808. Otherwise the stacked transients would make it too hard to mix.

this kinda inspired me to be a little less aggressive with my EQ

If you want your 808 to hit harder you can always just add a clicky transient to the sample. Works for me.

This is just solid mixing advice

Now where can I get those exact 808 and Kick samples he’s using here in this example ?

When I started producing i heard that you kick and bass needs to be sidechained so I just added it everywhere untill it ruined a beat I was in love with then I stopped

I only sidechain a kick to a bass when I deem it necessary which for years now has been like 3-5 percent of the time.

I think a huge problem many producers make in the low end is not pitching the kick in the key of your track! Especially if the kick is playing the root key of your track, it will sound great with side chain compression and good eqs guaranteed!

recommend any 808 sample packs for trap melodies?

it's wild how much knowledge Kenny just drops for free XD He's truly a legend

what if i sidechain using soothe to only duck certain ,i.e the kick, frequencies in my 808s and not all of it using conventional compressors

At 1.04 your sample appears to be in stereo. I thought it's best to make everything in mono first or am I way off?

just sidechain the 808 on a very short hihat sample (only the transient), then buss them together and (hard)clip the shit out of it. you get the best of both worlds that way while getting an audible boost in volume, and the transient will stay somewhat preserved

It's a lil funny coz i just saw a video from Luca Pretolesi when he's sidechaining kick > 808 to get more headroom in the final mix for the master :) But i guess it up to each and everyone what they decide to do! Nothing is wrong.

If you want a kick and 808 because you want the kick to hit at times the 808 doesn’t then just pick an 808 that has a kick already in it and then bring down the decay of the 808 until you get just the kick (attack) of the sample. Now you have a kick that’s already in tune with your 808

Most times people have there 808 way to loud above the kick. At least that was my problem I try to make my 808s felt more so than heard now.

If you like the effect of the sidechain (ex. 808/bass ducking when the kick hits or whatever your sc), is there a better way of doing this other then/with out compressor/sidechain?

He didn't mention anything about phase.. If the kick or the end point "lowest" of the pitch sweep is out of phase with the 808. It will not hit hard. It will cancel out. Simply flipping the phase of either the 808 or kick will add to the punch in most cases. Finding a sample that works well or designed for this also works..

I got a question When it comes to EDM Should your frequency spectrum be full throughout the whole song ? Or only on the drops

There is such a science as phase alinging

what is that groovy song at the end?

Honestly it’s just laziness, you can get some incredible balanced and blending using automation instead of a compressor, the problem is the labour it takes to automate the volume (or frequency band in a eq if you dont want to duck all the frequencies in your signal) compared to just slapping a compressor or a specialized sidechain vst, my advice is to just take the time to make the automation instead of resorting to vsts

Be really careful with the low-cutting / EQ junk tip. It's generally a good idea to remove unnecessary frequencies, but in doubt use a less steep EQ slope / be more generous and leave mor of the junk in. If you remove too much, it can suck the life out of the soundscape. And by that i don't mean "if you remove too much of the unnecessary fequebncies"; i mean if you remove too many frequencies, no matter if "junk" or not, the song can start to feel lifeless really fast. Again: i'm not saying "don't remove them". I am saying: remove them when needed, when it's a deliberate choice. Don't fall into the trap of putting a low cut on everything that's not bass, for example. Think about what makes sense and then decide.

too many facts in only one video

It's true, my beats are cleaner now that I cut anything from 0-50 hz on my Master

now is oficial , now is oficial that Kenny beats don't know how to mix

i feel called out

909 kicks and heavy basslines are a way bigger problem. I master hella tunes where people have a 909 banging away fat af, and fat heavy bass, and it’s just mud.

Subtractive EQ is Essential

Just sidechain better? Tighten the envelope

Word

Did he say shh 🤫

People underestimate the value of a little cropping and a low end roll off

thank uuu

I have a feeling Kenny just chose sidechain as his main nemesis, this must be like the 10th time he rants about sidechains, it's not that big of a deal, a song is going to be bad with or without sidechain, good music is good music etc. But he does give GREAT advice tho, not hating.

W title

Nice info, but a slight request to the channel. Go with the most advance techniques and mixing (equalisation principles), synthesis etc. One would not make a finished radio mix with basic knowledge. There are 100500 other aspects to consider to make a radio mix, only professionals know them. Disclose that.

The 808 is technically a kick, of course you don’t need two of them. (Yeah, it’s actually technically a drum machine, but language changes).

x302 talking about cilia in the chat lmao we miss u king ppSmok

Good conversation nonetheless

Using mad aggressive steep high pqsses like that will not help your mix though. Can make your sounds peak higher in dB due to phase being altered from such a steep cut.

I think this doesn't apply to louder genres like Drum & bass. It is known for clipping to zero and having all transients softened so vocals can come in swinging. If I take off my sidechain or multiband sidechain for everything especially the kick and bass, then my tracks would never reach the target loudness. but as far as dynamic songs like hip hop usually is. then by all means, you'll be fine.

Ayyy a cut like that is really harsh and WILL change phase... U will notice it most on subs and kicks... When u low cut with with a curve as harsh as this just do it with extra attention to detail❤️

4:40 does anyone have that kick sample?

I always cut at 20hz! Should I cut a little higher?!

When you say 808, do you mean the 808 kick? The 808 has a lot of sounds so are we talking about 808 kick mixed with other kicks?

dr evil- shhhhhhhhhtt

There's nothing wrong with doing a tight sidechain, I don't understand the issue here. The most impact you can possible get is when a kick is phase aligned with a bass.

every beat I've made so far🤦 🤘🤣 🥀🥀🥀🥀

Sidechain is a creative technique. Kick and sub isn't all that hard to get mixed nicely.

if you use 808, use short kick. thats the thumb .

808 is already a kick and a sub so its either just use an 808 or mix a Kick in a sub